Areas of weakness with current roster.

[rmcjacket23]

make no mistake..next year our first pick will be an OLB. Unless Darius smith shows something beyond what we would expect of him i have no doubt.

Yeah, we are not typically a "draft for need" kind of team, especially in the first round. If there aren't any good one's there when we pick, make no mistake, we won't be taking one.

[GrimCoconut]

Yeah, we are not typically a "draft for need" kind of team, especially in the first round. If there aren't any good one's there when we pick, make no mistake, we won't be taking one.

True although I wouldn't be surprised if we reached a little in the second round if there's a guy we really like.

Reaching is very subjective, however

Edited June 15, 2015 by GrimCoconut

[Ravensfan23]

True although I wouldn't be surprised if we reached a little in the second round if there's a guy we really like.

Reaching is very subjective, however

 

Yea but I wouldn't be surprised if both Means and ZDS prove why the Ravens are really high on them, thus eliminating the need for Ozzie to reach. 

 

We talk about weaknesses on this team and i really can't find any, which puts Ozzie and Eric in a great position come draft time. I really like where this team is right now. 

[rmcjacket23]

Yea but I wouldn't be surprised if both Means and ZDS prove why the Ravens are really high on them, thus eliminating the need for Ozzie to reach. 

 

We talk about weaknesses on this team and i really can't find any, which puts Ozzie and Eric in a great position come draft time. I really like where this team is right now. 

Every team has weaknesses. We think we may know what some of them are now, and they may be completely different in six months. Its just a matter if whether our strengths can mask our weaknesses.

[Purple_City39]

Ok, on topic I'd say the biggest area of weakness (which nobody said that I noticed) is at the return position.  Jacoby consistently got us decent field position and never really put the team in a hole.  We don't even know who the returner is right now.  Imagine constantly starting inside the 20.

 

Outside of that, I go with CB.  If Jimmy goes down, it's over.  If Webb goes down, it won't be as big a hit but who on the roster do you truly trust to be a starter at the CB position besides the two mentioned?  I can trust Urschel at either guard or center and Hurst at tackle.  I will trust any WR at this point because they all show some potential (although I have my favorites).  Same for OLB, ILB, D-line, TE, and safety.  I don't trust any other CB to start (and yes I'm excluding the QB position).

[rmcjacket23]

Ok, on topic I'd say the biggest area of weakness (which nobody said that I noticed) is at the return position.  Jacoby consistently got us decent field position and never really put the team in a hole.  We don't even know who the returner is right now.  Imagine constantly starting inside the 20.

 

Outside of that, I go with CB.  If Jimmy goes down, it's over.  If Webb goes down, it won't be as big a hit but who on the roster do you truly trust to be a starter at the CB position besides the two mentioned?  I can trust Urschel at either guard or center and Hurst at tackle.  I will trust any WR at this point because they all show some potential (although I have my favorites).  Same for OLB, ILB, D-line, TE, and safety.  I don't trust any other CB to start (and yes I'm excluding the QB position).

I don't think the return position is that big of a concern, just because the opportunities are diminishing annually.

 

Realistically, the only chances of starting inside the 20 on a kickoff, generally speaking, is if the kick returner tries to bring it out of the endzone. Jacoby and others have done this often... sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I forget what the statistics I last looked up are, but you're still looking at least at a 50-60% touchback rate on average across the board (may even be higher than that), so over half the time you're starting at the 20 regardless. I'd say just about any of our "skill position" guys could return a kickoff short of the end zone to the 20 yard line or further consistently.

 

Punt returns could theoretically have the bigger problem, though I still think you're probably fair catching well over half the time anyway. For me, ST (and in particular kick return/coverage game) is something where you don't have to be great at it in order to win a ton of games and a SB, but you simply can't suck at it. If we are fundamentally sound on both sides of the return game, we will be fine. We don't need 3 kick returns for a TD each year, and we really haven't had that since 2012 anyway.

[Purple_City39]

Yeah, we are not typically a "draft for need" kind of team, especially in the first round. If there aren't any good one's there when we pick, make no mistake, we won't be taking one.

I'm not calling you out but look at who was drafted in the 1st round over the past decade and then look at the previous seasons roster at that position (Elam after Pollard and Reed walk.  Jimmy after Foxworth and Washington are either injured with ACL tears or playing like garbage plus Carr walked.  Oher after Anderson retired.  etc).  Almost all our 1st round picks are by need.  It's not some coincidence.  The draft boards is BPA.......by need.  I'm pretty sure there was an article this offseason where Ozzie sad basically the same thing.

 

I see this too often among Ravens fans.  BPA has a foundation of need.  It's not a coincidence we never saw a LT pick in the 1st with Ogden, no highly drafted guard with Grubbs and Yanda, no high drafted RB while Jamal or Ray were running strong, etc.  This goes for all teams........except maybe the Colts this year because I have no clue why they went WR first

[Ravensfan23]

Every team has weaknesses. We think we may know what some of them are now, and they may be completely different in six months. Its just a matter if whether our strengths can mask our weaknesses.

 

No matter how you look at it, the Ravens are still in a very favorable position. You can look at any position save the QB and see where the team could upgrade. However that doesn't mean come draft time Ozzie would need to reach on said position. That's what I mean by not many weaknesses. 

[GrimCoconut]

Yea but I wouldn't be surprised if both Means and ZDS prove why the Ravens are really high on them, thus eliminating the need for Ozzie to reach. 

 

We talk about weaknesses on this team and i really can't find any, which puts Ozzie and Eric in a great position come draft time. I really like where this team is right now. 

Yeah, I actually like Means quite a bit. I researched him during the off-season for reasons outside of him being a Raven, and I liked what I saw. He was a productive player for Buffalo (the college team, not the NFL team). He excites me, and of course I am excited about a rookie who has never taken an NFL snap. Lol. 

[Ravensfan23]

I'm not calling you out but look at who was drafted in the 1st round over the past decade and then look at the previous seasons roster at that position (Elam after Pollard and Reed walk.  Jimmy after Foxworth and Washington are either injured with ACL tears or playing like garbage plus Carr walked.  Oher after Anderson retired.  etc).  Almost all our 1st round picks are by need.  It's not some coincidence.  The draft boards is BPA.......by need.  I'm pretty sure there was an article this offseason where Ozzie sad basically the same thing.

 

I see this too often among Ravens fans.  BPA has a foundation of need.  It's not a coincidence we never saw a LT pick in the 1st with Ogden, no highly drafted guard with Grubbs and Yanda, no high drafted RB while Jamal or Ray were running strong, etc.  This goes for all teams........except maybe the Colts this year because I have no clue why they went WR first

 

every pick is a pick of need in some sort be it to upgrade a starting position or to add valuable depth. People try to paint the "position of need" thing as black or white but it's not. The Ravens draft board is compiled of prospects that fit certain areas of need on this team. Which is why the Ravens draft board rarely adds up to the fans opinion of who should be drafted. 

 

So yes, while you're right in that our 1st round picks have all come at positions of need. You also have to understand what is meant by a "need pick". A need pick is described by a team disregarding a opportunity to upgrade their team in other areas just to address that "need position". When the Ravens say "best player available"  it comes from a list of players that fit their "team needs" and identity. So basically, lets say both Perriman and Peters were available at #26 and the Ravens had both on their board. Picking for need would be the Ravens having a lower grade on Perriman then Peters, but deciding to pick Perriman just because they want to replace the speed of Torrey.

 

It's really funny that we even talk about it because none of us know what Ozzie's thoughts are in terms of building this team. It's just fun to play GM i guess.  

[Ravensfan23]

Yeah, I actually like Means quite a bit. I researched him during the off-season for reasons outside of him being a Raven, and I liked what I saw. He was a productive player for Buffalo (the college team, not the NFL team). He excites me, and of course I am excited about a rookie who has never taken an NFL snap. Lol. 

 

Yea i try to stop myself from getting too excited this time of year, and every year around this time I get more and more excited about the team. These are the type of situations where I'd love to be in Ozzie's office when the decision is made. I'm sure Means was on the draft board, but how high up was he, how close did the Ravens come to drafting him? How do they view him now? This is one of those team building moves that i'm very intrigued by. It seems like a non factor to many, but it's the very type of move that leads to guys like Art Jones and McPhee carving out solid roles with this defense and then cashing in on the open market. 

[January J]

I think we are set at tight end. Better yet we are stacked. I get there will be a learning curve for the younger Guys- but there is still that chance that pitta returns as the starter, I refuse to count him out. And even if he doesn't make it back early in the season, Crockett Gilmore will be leading the pack. I'm calling it right now guys- Crockett Gilmore is going to blow up this year and put up huge numbers. I can almost see him becoming our gronk. This guy is huge, can catch and block efficiently, and right now he just has this vibe about him that's telling me he's going to dominate. I think him and joe are going to have a strong connection once the season gets rolling.

[rmcjacket23]

I'm not calling you out but look at who was drafted in the 1st round over the past decade and then look at the previous seasons roster at that position (Elam after Pollard and Reed walk.  Jimmy after Foxworth and Washington are either injured with ACL tears or playing like garbage plus Carr walked.  Oher after Anderson retired.  etc).  Almost all our 1st round picks are by need.  It's not some coincidence.  The draft boards is BPA.......by need.  I'm pretty sure there was an article this offseason where Ozzie sad basically the same thing.

 

I see this too often among Ravens fans.  BPA has a foundation of need.  It's not a coincidence we never saw a LT pick in the 1st with Ogden, no highly drafted guard with Grubbs and Yanda, no high drafted RB while Jamal or Ray were running strong, etc.  This goes for all teams........except maybe the Colts this year because I have no clue why they went WR first

LOL, funny thing is, I've been saying exactly what you just said for years.

 

But... need is a relative term. The concept of drafting "for need" is generally assigned to teams who take a player at ONE specific position, regardless of value. If we felt that CB was our biggest weakness from last season (which it was arguably), then a "needs based" draft pick would have been a first round corner.

 

The reality is that in 100% of drafts, there's at least 2-3 positions at a minimum where this team could use an upgrade. Oftentimes, its probably 4-5, which makes a "needs based" draft irrelevant, because you can use a BPA strategy based on the draft board that we have assembled. That draft board is assembled in a fashion that leads us to upgrade the positions that we want to.

 

I think the common association with "drafting for need" is that a team must take a player at its perceived biggest weakness, which historically, we actually haven't done. We've taken a player at A position of perceived weakness, but not necessarily at THE position of perceived weakness.

[rmcjacket23]

I think we are set at tight end. Better yet we are stacked. I get there will be a learning curve for the younger Guys- but there is still that chance that pitta returns as the starter, I refuse to count him out. And even if he doesn't make it back early in the season, Crockett Gilmore will be leading the pack. I'm calling it right now guys- Crockett Gilmore is going to blow up this year and put up huge numbers. I can almost see him becoming our gronk. This guy is huge, can catch and block efficiently, and right now he just has this vibe about him that's telling me he's going to dominate. I think him and joe are going to have a strong connection once the season gets rolling.

I'll call it now... basically the exact opposite of everything you just said. Ravens made him bulk up so that he can block better (and probably more). It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he catches very, very, very few footballs this season. I think if he's catching a lot of balls, something has gone terribly wrong with the offense (i.e. not being able to run the ball well and/or our receiving core looking very bad).

 

If I were a betting man, I'd take the under on 40 receptions, and I'd take the under on 500 yards very easily. Heck, even in Pitta's best season at full health and not being required to block very often, he did 61/669. If Crockett gets to half of those numbers next season, I'd consider that incredibly impressive from a pass catching perspective.

[FlackAttack]

I think we are set at tight end. Better yet we are stacked. I get there will be a learning curve for the younger Guys- but there is still that chance that pitta returns as the starter, I refuse to count him out. And even if he doesn't make it back early in the season, Crockett Gilmore will be leading the pack. I'm calling it right now guys- Crockett Gilmore is going to blow up this year and put up huge numbers. I can almost see him becoming our gronk. This guy is huge, can catch and block efficiently, and right now he just has this vibe about him that's telling me he's going to dominate. I think him and joe are going to have a strong connection once the season gets rolling.

this isnt a serious post is it? crocket gillmore becoming gronk? putting up huge numbers? dude come back down to earth

[FlackAttack]

I'll call it now... basically the exact opposite of everything you just said. Ravens made him bulk up so that he can block better (and probably more). It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he catches very, very, very few footballs this season. I think if he's catching a lot of balls, something has gone terribly wrong with the offense (i.e. not being able to run the ball well and/or our receiving core looking very bad).

 

If I were a betting man (which I am), I'd take the under on 40 receptions, and I'd take the under on 500 yards very easily. Heck, even in Pitta's best season at full health and not being required to block very often, he did 61/669. If Crockett gets to half of those numbers next season, I'd consider that incredibly impressive from a pass catching perspective.

yeah he'll prob finish the season around 300-400 yards, maybe a few TDs.

[beasy2487]

In theory, there's really only 3 positions that I have extreme confidence in performing well at... OL, MLB, and QB (I like many don't really care about QB depth). I think we are rock solid and among the league's best in those two areas.

Pass rush and DL seem to be in pretty good shape, but there are some question marks/unknowns in that area. DL is extremely young, and will probably feature a heavy rotation. As long as Dumervil/Suggs are healthy, I expect them to be productive for the time being, and we have some guys I think can rush on occasion successfully. I'd lump RB into this "fine" area because as long as the OL is playing well, I think anybody can run the ball successfully for us.

CB appears to have improved, but there's some uncertainty there. Webb has to play better and stay healthy, and Jimmy has to come back from his injury well and stay healthy. Depth is still a mild concern for me, but not a huge one.

Safety is an intriguing position, because we know Will Hill can play well but not much else. We think Lewis could be good, but we thought the same thing about Huff. Not a lot of high quality depth there unless Elam plays a lot better.

WR/TE is a complete wildcard for me. I have practically no expectations, and nothing would shock me. They could light the world on fire, or they could struggle incredibly. Neither would surprise me. Just one big gigantic question mark for me right now.

I agree, specifically with your points about the safety position. To me that's a total swing group for us. At worst I think they are a weakness we can mitigate if CB can avoid the injury bug. At best, they could actually be a strength which is weird to think about given the abysmal state the group was in last year.

[omar586]

more depth pass rushers.

[Tenacious Faulker]

Because we have no idea if Kendrick Lewis will be good or not, the last we saw of Elam he was horrendous, and Brooks likely starts the year on PUP and may never even play a snap this season.

We do know that Lewis is good.  If he was good at new Orleans he'll be great here.  That's just what happens in Bmore.  

[January J]

this isnt a serious post is it? crocket gillmore becoming gronk? putting up huge numbers? dude come back down to earth

serious as a heart attack. Trestman will be utilizing the tight ends heavily-have no idea why you think that Crockett being succussful would be a sign of our offense failing? Never said he would turn into gronk this year. But I think he could potentially turn into a player of that caliber over the course of 3-4 years. And actually if you think about it- technically he kind of is like our version of gronk. He is the EXACT same size and he is our #1 tight end. He just has yet to prove himself. When I said he was going to dominate this year I was actually mainly referring to his blocking- but I could see him easily catching 45 passes , puttin up anywhere between 450-550 yards and catchin about 6-7 Tds. Bank on it.

[rmcjacket23]

We do know that Lewis is good.  If he was good at new Orleans he'll be great here.  That's just what happens in Bmore.  

See Huff, Michael. There's no shortage of FA players this team has brought in that haven't panned out. Hopefully he will, but high quality safeties generally aren't available later in FA at a cheap rate, which is what Lewis was available for (unless you have significant baggage like Hill).

 

I'll reserve my judgment about whether he can play until we actually see him do it on this team.

[January J]

We do know that Lewis is good. If he was good at new Orleans he'll be great here. That's just what happens in Bmore.

think you meant Houston. But I agree with you. He's gonna really help our defense make some splash plays which we were desperately lacking last year. Not worried about him or will hill at all. If one of them gets injured and we have to rely on Matt Elam, that's a diffrent story. Although I'm hoping he makes significant strides as well.

[FlackAttack]

serious as a heart attack. Trestman will be utilizing the tight ends heavily-have no idea why you think that Crockett being succussful would be a sign of our offense failing? Never said he would turn into gronk this year. But I think he could potentially turn into a player of that caliber over the course of 3-4 years. And actually if you think about it- technically he kind of is like our version of gronk. He is the EXACT same size and he is our #1 tight end. He just has yet to prove himself. When I said he was going to dominate this year I was actually mainly referring to his blocking- but I could see him easily catching 45 passes , puttin up anywhere between 450-550 yards and catchin about 6-7 Tds. Bank on it.

yeeeah sorry dude but you dont really know what youre talking about. gronk is light years ahead of gilmore when it comes to speed, strength, athleticism, and pretty much every other spectrum of being an NFL player. gillmore isnt the type of player that will put up huge numbers because of his shorter game/ blocking playing style, so even comparing him to a "ravens gronk" is a false argument. yes he has a big frame but thats pretty much his only advantage when it comes to open field. maxx williams is more the type of player that will put up big numbers for a TE. hes quicker, can run more precise routes, get open and will gain yards. expect to see him make more big plays and possibly be our #1 TE come seasons end.

 

and 450-550 receiving yards is fairly average for a present day TE, so thats not "breaking out" lol.

[FlackAttack]

See Huff, Michael. There's no shortage of FA players this team has brought in that haven't panned out. Hopefully he will, but high quality safeties generally aren't available later in FA at a cheap rate, which is what Lewis was available for (unless you have significant baggage like Hill).

 

I'll reserve my judgment about whether he can play until we actually see him do it on this team.

 

i agree with your point, but comparing michael huff to kendrick lewis is a bit over the top. kendrick is a much better player coming into this organization then huff was. but he is still questionable no doubt.

[beasy2487]

well you said yourself if he even got half of 60 something receptions and 669 yards that would be extremely impressive. So if he put up 45 catches and over 450 yards, esp in comparison to what he did last year- yes I would call that a breakout season. Never said he would put up gronk stats this year. And no- I don't think 6 or 7 Tds is far fetched at all. Seeing what joe was able to do with Owen Daniels last year, there's no doubt in my mind. I also don't think biscotti suggested that 40 receptions would be his ceiling. I don't remember the exact quote so I could be wrong but it sounded like he was sayin he would to be surprised if he caught Atleast 40. That's neither here nor there.

we all have to find validation somewhere.

re: Gilmore

I'm excited for what he's going to show us. I think Gilmore has an edge to him and is much less of an oaf than Gronk is. To me, Gronk lacks leadership qualities and benefits greatly from the rigor around him. I think Gilmore is much more focused and though he isn't as physically gifted, he has the mental tools to cause serious problems for opponents with his size and strength.

He was wearing linebackers out last year as a rookie. 20 more pounds of muscle? Are you serious? I expect some pancakes and hurt feelings in the future lol.

[Sami84]

I really begin to wonder what Gronks SAT scores were

[rmcjacket23]

well you said yourself if he even got half of 60 something receptions and 669 yards that would be extremely impressive. So if he put up 45 catches and over 450 yards, esp in comparison to what he did last year- yes I would call that a breakout season. Never said he would put up gronk stats this year. And no- I don't think 6 or 7 Tds is far fetched at all. Seeing what joe was able to do with Owen Daniels last year, there's no doubt in my mind. I also don't think biscotti suggested that 40 receptions would be his ceiling. I don't remember the exact quote so I could be wrong but it sounded like he was sayin he would to be surprised if he caught Atleast 40. That's neither here nor there.

 

1. It means I would be impressed if he caught 30 balls. That's not in any way an indication of a "breakout" season, because I don't know a player in NFL history who had a "breakout" season when they caught 30 passes. I'd be impressed if Juice caught 30 passes too... that doesn't mean its a "breakout" season. All it means is that he exceeded my expectations. If a primary blocking TE catches 30-40 passes, I'm impressed, though I'm also skeptical about an offense's production when that happens. Generally not the best sign. In a pretty solid year, Joe's only going to complete about 350 passes anyway, so having 10-15% of them going to a blocking TE sends up some red flags about the offense to me.

 

2. It was this very website, as a source, that posted a quote from Bischotti in early April indicating that his expectation was that Gillmore would catch 30-40 passes this season. Keep in mind, again, that's BEFORE we draft a pass catching TE in the 2nd round AND its BEFORE we open up the posssibility of Pitta potentially playing again. 

[berad]

1. Correct, certainly not here to make friends. Completely content with the one's I got.

 

2. It means I would be impressed if he caught 30 balls. That's not in any way an indication of a "breakout" season, because I don't know a player in NFL history who had a "breakout" season when they caught 30 passes. I'd be impressed if Juice caught 30 passes too... that doesn't mean its a "breakout" season. All it means is that he exceeded my expectations. If a primary blocking TE catches 30-40 passes, I'm impressed, though I'm also skeptical about an offense's production when that happens. Generally not the best sign. In a pretty solid year, Joe's only going to complete about 350 passes anyway, so having 10-15% of them going to a blocking TE sends up some red flags about the offense to me.

 

3. It was this very website, as a source, that posted a quote from Bischotti in early April indicating that his expectation was that Gillmore would catch 30-40 passes this season. Keep in mind, again, that's BEFORE we draft a pass catching TE in the 2nd round AND its BEFORE we open up the posssibility of Pitta potentially playing again. 

 

There's always a very fine line between being an optimist and a realist, and too often on these boards, people jump hundreds of yards over the line into the optimist area. Realistic fans are always the best fans.

 

Really?

[Tank 92]

lol.........We've reached new lows in condescending remarks.

[Moderator 3]

Why be a fan if not optimistic?