[News] Late For Work 6/11: Cavs Use Steelers Logo To Incite Boos In NBA Finals

[rmcjacket23]

I completely understand what your sayin however I completely disagree. It's easy to look back on the 2013 season now and say we didn't expect to make it to the Super Bowl just bc we happened to miss the playoffs. (By one game mind you) I guarentee you if you were to ask harbaugh or flacco or anybody in the organization at the beginning of that year if they believed they could make it to the Super Bowl that they would say yes. And I wholeheartedly believe that would be their honest opinion. They might realize that it was a bit less likely to happen, but ofcourse they believed they could make it to the playoffs... And once your in anything can happen. Yes some teams aren't as fortunate as ours and realize they have to rebuild for years before they can contend - but The ravens are one of the few teams that can go through a rebuilding year and still have that win now mentality regardless due to excellent scouting, coaching, and then there's this guy named Ozzie in the front office. Yes we are that good.

1. I have zero doubt that Joe's smart enough to know he didn't have a SB caliber team in 2013. Remember, we are talking no cameras, no public, just completely private and honest. He, like John, would say all the right things when the fans are listening and the public are listening. Completely different story when you're being honest with yourself.

Keep in mind also that Joe could potentially be that naive (though I doubt it), mostly because he didn't assemble the roster. That's not his job, and to a certain extent, that's not John's job either. There's a zero percent chance in my mind that Ozzie Newsome looked at the 2013 roster he constructed by August of that year and said "yup, I think this team is SB-quality". That's extremely naive, at best, in my opinion. It doesn't matter if its after the fact or not, because we were discussing this very same concept at that very same time before the season began.

Playoff team? Sure. Kind of irrelevant though coming off a SB season.

2. Never really understood or believed the mantra of "anything can happen once you get in", because I think most people would have a problem coming up with even a single example in the NFL (especially recently) where that's actually applied. Any year where a playoff team was universally given a 0% chance of winning the SB, they've met expectations in that regards.

And no, the 2012 Baltimore Ravens, or any other Ravens team that made the playoffs, certainly doesn't qualify under that scenario.

[RavensBaltimore]

Mantras are based on actions, not words. Just calling something a mantra doesn't make it so.

When you have just won a SB with a highly aging roster (especially on defense) that spent the previous 4-5 years investing everything they had into getting to the top of the mountain, and you immediately cut/retire/change the large basis of that defense in a single offseason, that kind of signals a mantra. And that mantra is NOT "we expect to win a SB this season". That mantra, most likely, is "lets rebuild this section of the football, and within a short period of time, get back to being a SB contender".

I completely get why some of you literally think that every roster we create is designed to be a SB winner that season. In most seasons recently, that's the case. 2013 was quite obviously not one of them. Every realistic person knew what was going on there, and understood fully the reasons why we were doing it.

If you went to Ozzie, DeCosta or even in the owner in private six months after our SB victory, and ask them honestly if they believed the roster they had assembled was sufficient to win a SB that season, I'd bet my house the answer would be no. Not something you say publicly obviously.

You're right... not everything needs to be disected. Not every team in this league honestly believes that they are SB contenders that season, and this franchise is no different from them in certain years. The only difference is that there's really only been one season in about the last 8 or so where that's been the case.

Just because you make a sacrifice for the future doesn't mean you can't "win now". After coming off a SB win, our defense actually IMPROVED. The only major losses on offense were Boldin and Birk. We had no idea Pitta and most of our receivers would go down with injury, nor did we know that our O-line would be decimated, which caused our whole offense to collapse. Despite all that, we were still 8-6 and in a playoff spot until Flacco's knee injury, and even after all that, we missed it by ONE GAME. Remember, we lost about 4 or 5 games that year by less than a TD. There were several losses where if we just converted once in the red zone, we would've won. A healthy Pitta, KO, or Yanda could've been the difference. Had we literally just made one more play, we would have been in the postseason, and with an experienced, big game qb like Flacco, a battle tested team, and a decent defense, you never know. So, if you asked the FO what they thought before the 2013 season, before all the injuries, my guess is that they knew they had some pieces missing, and maybe they weren't as confident as in other seasons, but we had too many key pieces and proven winners back from the team that just won the SB for them to think we had absolutely no chance.

[rmcjacket23]

Just because you make a sacrifice for the future doesn't mean you can't "win now". After coming off a SB win, our defense actually IMPROVED. The only major losses on offense were Boldin and Birk. We had no idea Pitta and most of our receivers would go down with injury, nor did we know that our O-line would be decimated, which caused our whole offense to collapse. Despite all that, we were still 8-6 and in a playoff spot until Flacco's knee injury, and even after all that, we missed it by ONE GAME. Remember, we lost about 4 or 5 games that year by less than a TD. There were several losses where if we just converted once in the red zone, we would've won. A healthy Pitta, KO, or Yanda could've been the difference. Had we literally just made one more play, we would have been in the postseason, and with an experienced, big game qb like Flacco, a battle tested team, and a decent defense, you never know. So, if you asked the FO what they thought before the 2013 season, before all the injuries, my guess is that they knew they had some pieces missing, and maybe they weren't as confident as in other seasons, but we had too many key pieces and proven winners back from the team that just won the SB for them to think we had absolutely no chance

Well, by definition, it pretty much does. The definition of a sacrifice is to give up something, which in this case, meant a reasonable shot at a SB.

 

Its frankly irrelevant whether we missed the playoffs by a game or by 10 games..It doesn't matter if we lost 5 games by 1 point or by 100 points. We missed the playoffs because we didn't play well enough to get there, and we lost those games because we didn't play well enough to win them. In most cases, and certainly in the 2013 season, that failure to play well is due to a combination of lack of talent/experience and lack of execution. There is a GIGANTIC difference between a SB team and a team that misses the playoffs on the last weekend, and I don't think a lot of fans really understand this. Like I already said, this mantra of "well if you get in anything can happen" isn't very realistic in the grand scheme of things.

 

The injury factor is largely irrelevant to me, because significant injuries occur to 32 NFL teams on an annual basis, and yet the good teams seem to have no problem winning games with significant injuries. 2013 was far and away the healthiest team we put on the field in the last three seasons, it was probably the best defense we put on the field in the last three seasons, and it was far and away our weakest team in the last three seasons. We can lose Ray Lewis and Terrell Suggs (reigning DPOY at the time) for half a season, and Lardarius Webb for most of a season and still win a SB, yet we lose Dennis Pitta and somehow our entire offense is derailed? Not quite.

[stampedehero]

If they put a Ravens logo and Ray Lewis the crowd  would have been electrified.  The 95 Browns was recently on NFL channel and Rays play influenced the Raven team to the SB instead of a Browns team with Ray   Its amazing that the Browns HC  was Bellichick!!  

[Purple Ghost]

This change in the extra point rule is stupid. It can reduce the importance of a drive down the field for a potentially tying touchdown near the end of the game and place it on a kick that needs to be made under bad weather conditions.

With this rule a few years back Justin would not have faked the extra point against the Steelers and have Sam run the ball in for 2 points. That was awesome.

[ravensnj]

I can't believe everyone is still sleeping on Flacco. Really???? The dude has been to the playoffs every year but once in his career. Who can say that? No one! He put a big hurt on New England without his two starting tackles. Lee Evans...remember him? Really, I'm like the Coach, give me Joe any day!

[20306cab]

 Cleveland is pathetic for so many reasons. I don't have time to go in to all of them. But how about ZERO Championships for three Major professional sports in 50 years. And Johnny Football.

Edited June 11, 2015 by 20306cab

[Halshayeji]

1. Win now mode implies that there's long-term detriment from not winning this season, and that we will have to blow the team up. There is zero evidence that's the case, particularly when all indications from the last 2-3 years is a movement to get younger.

2. Can you honestly say, straight face and all, that the 2013 Baltimore Ravens team was assembled with the belief that they could win the SB? If so, what exactly are you basing that off of?

2013 was that year for us.

Win now to me means your best chance of wining it all is now. We have a great group of youngsters to compliment our vets. Sugge, doom, yanda, forsett, webb, flacco, d.smith, Monroe, could all be deep in their decline in 3 years. Maybe not even on the team. The youngsters around them are very talented.

By win now I can see the Ravens taking a few more risks in Free agency next year (like a revis pats deal, 1 year rental). I can also see the coordinator that doent end up in the top 10 fired. Even though Ozzie loves his picks I wouldn't expect 9 or 10 picks. If a playmaker is on the block, Ozzie should snatch.

The foundation is set. Now seal the deal!

[January J]

Well, by definition, it pretty much does. The definition of a sacrifice is to give up something, which in this case, meant a reasonable shot at a SB.

Its frankly irrelevant whether we missed the playoffs by a game or by 10 games..It doesn't matter if we lost 5 games by 1 point or by 100 points. We missed the playoffs because we didn't play well enough to get there, and we lost those games because we didn't play well enough to win them. In most cases, and certainly in the 2013 season, that failure to play well is due to a combination of lack of talent/experience and lack of execution. There is a GIGANTIC difference between a SB team and a team that misses the playoffs on the last weekend, and I don't think a lot of fans really understand this. Like I already said, this mantra of "well if you get in anything can happen" isn't very realistic in the grand scheme of things.

The injury factor is largely irrelevant to me, because significant injuries occur to 32 NFL teams on an annual basis, and yet the good teams seem to have no problem winning games with significant injuries. 2013 was far and away the healthiest team we put on the field in the last three seasons, it was probably the best defense we put on the field in the last three seasons, and it was far and away our weakest team in the last three seasons. We can lose Ray Lewis and Terrell Suggs (reigning DPOY at the time) for half a season, and Lardarius Webb for most of a season and still win a SB, yet we lose Dennis Pitta and somehow our entire offense is derailed? Not quite.

once again- I just think your looking too deep into things. We don't need to hear the definition of a sacrifice. All teams make sacrifices every year. And I don't think we thought we were sacrificing a reasonable chance at a Super Bowl, esp with the return of flacco who just came off of an immaculate postseason performance. I don't think the injuries are relevant either- but I do think it matters how close we came that year. You think we went into that game against Cinci thinkin we were going to lose? You might not believe in the "once your in anything can happen" mantra - but I can guarentee you all 32 nfl teams do. Esp when you have a qb who performs in the postseason as well as flacco does. A lot of fans DO understand this because it's a fact. Doesn't matter how often it happens or if it's happened recently- the fact is, if you get in the postseason you have a shot. Therefore- if you think you have a playoff caliber team- you can potentially have a Super Bowl team. Like it was stated previously- sometimes the F.O may not be as confident with the roster as they were in other years or with other teams- but unless things drastically change in the near future , if you are part of the ravens organization you always are going to have the win now attitude. Edited June 12, 2015 by January J

[alexbayrobin]

All these long comments I do want to read them all. But I read where rmc said that Joe and coach Harbaugh didn't think at the beginning of 2013 that that ravens had a chance to go to the SB. Well I disagree because who could have known that the running attack would be so bad. They couldn't run the ball at all. It was pitiful.

[RavensBaltimore]

Well, by definition, it pretty much does. The definition of a sacrifice is to give up something, which in this case, meant a reasonable shot at a SB.

No it doesn't. The Ravens sacrificed a position or two, not a reasonable shot at a SB. Based on your definition, we would never have a shot at a SB, because we sacrifice something every year.

 

 

 

Its frankly irrelevant whether we missed the playoffs by a game or by 10 games..It doesn't matter if we lost 5 games by 1 point or by 100 points. We missed the playoffs because we didn't play well enough to get there, and we lost those games because we didn't play well enough to win them. In most cases, and certainly in the 2013 season, that failure to play well is due to a combination of lack of talent/experience and lack of execution. There is a GIGANTIC difference between a SB team and a team that misses the playoffs on the last weekend, and I don't think a lot of fans really understand this. 

Then how do explain the fact that the 9-7 Giants won the SB in 2011, and the 9-7 Cardinals were a play away from winning the SB in 2008? They were one game better than the 2013 Ravens, so there must not be a GIGANTIC difference between a SB team and a team that misses the playoffs on the last weekend, unless you consider one game a gigantic difference. The fact that we were so close in almost every game shows that we had a realistic shot, whereas if we got blown out, we wouldn't have. There is no way Ozzie could have known we wouldn't be able to score on 1st and goal from the one against GB or Geno would screw up the snap in Chicago. Just because it doesn't work out doesn't mean you never had a chance in the first place. If you can be within one play from winning almost every game, it means you had a realistic chance. Those one play games are too unpredictable to say that Ozzie or Joe knew they wouldn't win them before the season started.

 

 

 Like I already said, this mantra of "well if you get in anything can happen" isn't very realistic in the grand scheme of things.

It is realistic when you have a qb who can take over a postseason and a team that has continuously won in the postseason, on the road. The previous 2 SB winners were given the worst odds out of all the playoff teams, so, again, if you have the right qb, it has been proven that "anything can happen if you get in" is realistic.

 

 

The injury factor is largely irrelevant to me, because significant injuries occur to 32 NFL teams on an annual basis, and yet the good teams seem to have no problem winning games with significant injuries. 2013 was far and away the healthiest team we put on the field in the last three seasons, it was probably the best defense we put on the field in the last three seasons, and it was far and away our weakest team in the last three seasons. We can lose Ray Lewis and Terrell Suggs (reigning DPOY at the time) for half a season, and Lardarius Webb for most of a season and still win a SB, yet we lose Dennis Pitta and somehow our entire offense is derailed? Not quite.

The Patriots had almost all of their key players healthy last year, so it is realistic for that to happen, and we could have competed for a SB if we were healthier. In 2013, we didn't have a single position group on offense that was healthy. Pitta got hurt, every receiver except Torrey got hurt, KO missed most of the year, Yanda was clearly limited by injury, and Rice was not moving like himself after week 2. Again, despite that, we were still in a playoff spot when Flacco hurt his knee, which ended our realistic chances. All 32 teams do not have injury issues that bad, and there isn't a team in the AFC that would have a realistic shot if they're qb was hobbled like Joe was, let alone with every other position group depleted somehow. Again, Ozzie had no way of knowing all that was going to happen. As far as he knew, we basically had the same offense, minus Boldin and Birk, and a better D. So, we lose a couple key contributors, upgrade a couple positions, and we go from SB champs to not even having a realistic shot? 

[rmcjacket23]

No it doesn't. The Ravens sacrificed a position or two, not a reasonable shot at a SB. Based on your definition, we would never have a shot at a SB, because we sacrifice something every year.

 

 

 

Then how do explain the fact that the 9-7 Giants won the SB in 2011, and the 9-7 Cardinals were a play away from winning the SB in 2008? They were one game better than the 2013 Ravens, so there must not be a GIGANTIC difference between a SB team and a team that misses the playoffs on the last weekend, unless you consider one game a gigantic difference. The fact that we were so close in almost every game shows that we had a realistic shot, whereas if we got blown out, we wouldn't have. There is no way Ozzie could have known we wouldn't be able to score on 1st and goal from the one against GB or Geno would screw up the snap in Chicago. Just because it doesn't work out doesn't mean you never had a chance in the first place. If you can be within one play from winning almost every game, it means you had a realistic chance. Those one play games are too unpredictable to say that Ozzie or Joe knew they wouldn't win them before the season started.

 

 

It is realistic when you have a qb who can take over a postseason and a team that has continuously won in the postseason, on the road. The previous 2 SB winners were given the worst odds out of all the playoff teams, so, again, if you have the right qb, it has been proven that "anything can happen if you get in" is realistic.

 

 

The Patriots had almost all of their key players healthy last year, so it is realistic for that to happen, and we could have competed for a SB if we were healthier. In 2013, we didn't have a single position group on offense that was healthy. Pitta got hurt, every receiver except Torrey got hurt, KO missed most of the year, Yanda was clearly limited by injury, and Rice was not moving like himself after week 2. Again, despite that, we were still in a playoff spot when Flacco hurt his knee, which ended our realistic chances. All 32 teams do not have injury issues that bad, and there isn't a team in the AFC that would have a realistic shot if they're qb was hobbled like Joe was, let alone with every other position group depleted somehow. Again, Ozzie had no way of knowing all that was going to happen. As far as he knew, we basically had the same offense, minus Boldin and Birk, and a better D. So, we lose a couple key contributors, upgrade a couple positions, and we go from SB champs to not even having a realistic shot? 

1. A position or two in terms of what? In terms of actual on-field positions? Sacrificed a TON more than just one or two of them. We sacrificed at least 4-5 alone just on defense, and that excludes losing Boldin. 

 

If its position in terms of position in the standings or position in the hierarchy of the conference, one or two positions, just like one or two wins, is the difference between a SB contender and a playoff watcher from the couch.

 

2. Obviously not logical, because it implies that all 9-7 teams are equal, which of course isn't true, especially when comparing teams across years. The 9-7 Giants that won the SB were significantly better at just about every position, facet and phase of football than the 2013 Ravens that finished one game worse. They weren't just a "little bit" better than us, they were significantly better. It would have been tough for us to stay within a TD of them even at home if we played them.

 

3. Nobody cares about odds. Dozens of websites, sports books, etc. that set different odds whenever they want. Its pretty simple for me... no realistic person went into the 2014 playoffs thinking that the Arizona Cardinals, with Ryan Lindley or whoever they were trotting out there, had a realistic chance of winning the SB. Its a cute little thing to say in theory, "hey everybody has a shot when they get in". Cool, doesn't really work that way though. Some seasons everybody does, and some seasons there's maybe half the teams that have a realistic shot. By your logic, last years Cardinals team was better than the Cardinals team that lost to the Steelers in the SB, because they had a better regular season record. Those two teams weren't even in the same remote area of talent.

 

4. And you can say the exact same things about the 2012 or 2014 Ravens... boatload of injuries at key positions, yet those teams seem to do better. Why is that? 

 

So you're saying he couldn't have anticipated how poor our offense would be, yet you give him credit for upgrading the defense in hindsight? Do you think that Ozzie actually thought that the 2013 defense would be better than the 2012 version? Can't possibly make that claim based on personnel decisions. Didn't hear a single person suggesting that our secondary would be better with a rookie and a career ST player (Elam and Ihedigbo) than Ed Reed and Bernard Pollard. Didn't hear anybody thinking that Ellerbe would be the big upgrade on Ray Lewis. 

 

In many ways, the 2013 Ravens offense was precisely what the 2013 Ravens defense was SUPPOSED to be. It was supposed to be younger, inexperienced, and should have struggled. That's what happens when you lose like 6 starters and replace them with largely career backups and rookies. I guarantee the 2013 Ravens D greatly exceeded the FO and coaching staffs expectations, which made their mini "collapse" in 2014 all the more disturbing.

 

And yes, you can go from a SB winner to a non-contender by upgrading/downgrading a couple key positions in an offseason. In fact, we see this more frequently than people think. We see SB winners that keep the same "core" players together the following year, yet they fail to make the playoffs. How can that happen? 

[rmcjacket23]

All these long comments I do want to read them all. But I read where rmc said that Joe and coach Harbaugh didn't think at the beginning of 2013 that that ravens had a chance to go to the SB. Well I disagree because who could have known that the running attack would be so bad. They couldn't run the ball at all. It was pitiful.

Just being able to run the ball doesn't make you a SB contender. You've got to do a lot of other things better than that in order to be one. 

[RRRRRavens]

1. Win now mode implies that there's long-term detriment from not winning this season, and that we will have to blow the team up. There is zero evidence that's the case, particularly when all indications from the last 2-3 years is a movement to get younger.

2. Can you honestly say, straight face and all, that the 2013 Baltimore Ravens team was assembled with the belief that they could win the SB? If so, what exactly are you basing that off of?

2013 was that year for us.

I think he's basing it off the stuff he's been smoking.  You wouldn't happen to know who his dealer is would you?

[Nightman]

If they really wanted to incite boos in Cleveland, they should have shown the Ravens logo and a picture of Art Modell.