No purple shades here...

[JoeyFlex5]

I guess I should have specified a little better what I meant. I was not talking about  normal football formations I know Pees runs every one of those. I am talking about exotic formations like we would see from Rex and Pagono in the past  get the offense really guessing..

there are plenty of those.. the difference between pees and pagano/rex is that he also mixes in coverage heavy plays with disguised coverages to keep the defense guessing on all fronts, rather than bring the heat on every snap. he is less aggressive, but also much less predictable, rather than the offense guessing "where is the blitz gonna come from this time?" they are guessing "what in the hell does this lineup mean?". a pees defense isnt gonna drop jaws and rank first in all categories, but it is a smart defense, it is one that keeps opponents guessing, unless you have a GAPING hole in the defense then it will never be horribly exposed because its so diverse. like i said, pees plays chess, rex and pagano play checkers, not that there is anything wrong with that pressure heavy defense, but pees' style of defense i think is best for us, we have to face the best and brightest qb's every year, we need a smart and diverse DC rather than someone who will get abused by hot routes.

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

there are plenty of those.. the difference between pees and pagano/rex is that he also mixes in coverage heavy plays with disguised coverages to keep the defense guessing on all fronts, rather than bring the heat on every snap. he is less aggressive, but also much less predictable, rather than the offense guessing "where is the blitz gonna come from this time?" they are guessing "what in the hell does this lineup mean?". a pees defense isnt gonna drop jaws and rank first in all categories, but it is a smart defense, it is one that keeps opponents guessing, unless you have a GAPING hole in the defense then it will never be horribly exposed because its so diverse. like i said, pees plays chess, rex and pagano play checkers, not that there is anything wrong with that pressure heavy defense, but pees' style of defense i think is best for us, we have to face the best and brightest qb's every year, we need a smart and diverse DC rather than someone who will get abused by hot routes.

I can agree with you. I have never been against Pees if you read my original post I said I could not call him a bum. I just wish he would mix it up a little more and take more chances at times and yes when he does it will cost us at times but it will pay out at times too. I am not against Pees I like him as a DC.

[Dr. Kelley]

Hahaha I almost ALWAYS criticize Pees on here, but come on, a bum? Really? Yeah there are things I wish he did better, and he seems asleep at the wheel sometimes, but who are we gonna get that's better? Be real. Pees has at least proven that he does well with a solid personnel and we should have that this year. If the offense truly breaks out, like it should, he should be fine. Unless you guys want zombie tom landry or something

[beasy2487]

Pees is old n washed up..doesn't bring anything new to the table. Only reason he's had a little success IS because of the players(coaches) around him. This D could be better. I wasn't going by last seasons playoffs. Before we lost Jimmy n company we still looked average when we're not.As for my break out player...u don't have to agree with me just watch.

 

I don't know why you're getting bashed for this, I totally agree. We should've been scouting Pop Warner leagues for young defensive coaching talent years ago. Or maybe give Castillo a shot, I hear he has DC experience.

[CalvinSmoke]

We won't be the Ravens of old guys... Teams caught on to how important pass rushers are, we can't just scoop them up anymore. And the rules have changed in the NFL to make it a pass friendly league we know that.

Calling for pees head won't do anything, and most don't even have a reason for calling for it. Seriously why do you want him gone? What doesn't he do well? He makes our players smart and our defenders actually play well when they go to other teams unlike before.

[TDubbs]

We weren't too far away from going to another AFC Championship game with Pees, yet again. I'm not the biggest fan of his, but I think he does a fine job. We got torched by a high school play on the Edelman/Amendola pass ... Heck, even a UDFA CB should be able to defend that. 

[JEEPercreepermd]

I don't understand the hate for Dean Pees. The defense under him has been very good considering what he's had to.work with.

You can't throw in all these crazy blitzes when your starting CB's are all 3rd string safeties or guys off the street.

Remember back in 07 when we had Rex? Our top 3 corners as well as Reed were all out at once at one point...yet Rex was still attacking and leaving those below average guys with no help, one on one..we were terrible.

Pees has had to be a little more conservative in his blitz packages because of all the backups or under performing players that we've had in the secondary over the last two seasons.

Look at us vs the Patriots then look at Seattle vs the Patriots

In the Super Bowl, the nfl's "best defense" gave up 57 rushing yards, 328 passing yds and Brady threw 4td's.

In the divisional game, in Foxboro...our defense gave up a whopping 14 rushing yds while Brady threw for 367 and 3 TD's.

Very Comparable stats...even more so considering that the Seahawks have a STACKED secondary on paper and we had a few scrubs out there.

If Webb and Smith can stay healthy all year..and the rest of the D stays relatively healthy..this defense is going to be lights out. Pees is a good DC, let's get off his back a little.

[Sami84]

We weren't too far away from going to another AFC Championship game with Pees, yet again. I'm not the biggest fan of his, but I think he does a fine job. We got torched by a high school play on the Edelman/Amendola pass ... Heck, even a UDFA CB should be able to defend that. 

 

if i remember correctly..melvin left amendola and only retreated back when edleman was about to windup a pass.

[Tenacious Faulker]

Why would you call Pees a bum? Doesn't make sense at all. He is a bend but don't break DC, but he has done well with our defense, especially last year, when we were patchwork most season!

Pees gets a bad wrap because of the bend-don't break style he brought over ffrom New England.  He's a serious X/O mind and knows how to manage a defense with less talent, allowing the F.O. to invest their money into the offense.  Most fans remember the awesome smashmouth Ravens defenses up through 2010.  That's a diffenent era and F.O. has actively made the mve from defensive first to offense first because of the NFL rule changes and haivng our first franchise QB in team history.  

 

Fans have to get over the past and stop pining for it.  Stop whining ove the missed play-offs of 2013. Rex payed checkers on defense - Pees is playing chess.  He might not be Pagano, but if it wasn't for Pees this team may have missed out on the '12 Super Bowl and possibly the other post-seasons too.

 

i agree with all but the pats- no way the pats are contenders atleast at this point with the way their defense has been decimated. they will most likely make it to the playoffs but be one and done. id replace the pats with a team like dallas or even philly.

The Pats are always contenders.  I've been calling for their demise since 2010, but they continue to surprise.  Eventually things will change, but as much as I dislike that team (pehaps even for then the Steelers) I'll never coun them out as long as they have Belichick and Brady.  Because as long as the league won't take away wins for cheating, New England will find ways to make it happen.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Tenacious Faulker

[Tru11]

I don't understand the hate for Dean Pees. The defense under him has been very good considering what he's had to.work with.

You can't throw in all these crazy blitzes when your starting CB's are all 3rd string safeties or guys off the street.

Remember back in 07 when we had Rex? Our top 3 corners as well as Reed were all out at once at one point...yet Rex was still attacking and leaving those below average guys with no help, one on one..we were terrible.

Pees has had to be a little more conservative in his blitz packages because of all the backups or under performing players that we've had in the secondary over the last two seasons.

Look at us vs the Patriots then look at Seattle vs the Patriots

In the Super Bowl, the nfl's "best defense" gave up 57 rushing yards, 328 passing yds and Brady threw 4td's.

In the divisional game, in Foxboro...our defense gave up a whopping 14 rushing yds while Brady threw for 367 and 3 TD's.

Very Comparable stats...even more so considering that the Seahawks have a STACKED secondary on paper and we had a few scrubs out there.

If Webb and Smith can stay healthy all year..and the rest of the D stays relatively healthy..this defense is going to be lights out. Pees is a good DC, let's get off his back a little.

 

actually Thomas , Sherman and chancellor where all playing injured and probably had no bussines being on the field.

 

they also lost their 2nd and 3rd corner during the game lol.

 

their 3rd corner lane got injured when he picked off brady and before that Maxwell left the game .

[BmoreBird22]

actually Thomas , Sherman and chancellor where all playing injured and probably had no bussines being on the field.

 

they also lost their 2nd and 3rd corner during the game lol.

 

their 3rd corner lane got injured when he picked off brady and before that Maxwell left the game .

Thomas and Sherman played all 19 games and Pete Carrol described Chancellor's injury as not limiting at all and said that the likelihood was that he had just had continuos damage from a previous knee injury. Didn't Thomas even come back into the Green Bay game after suffering his injury? I mean, this is the NFL and no players are ever 100% and players will frequently play with some sort of damage to their body. If they can be on the field and play, especially given how they didn't seem to have major limitations, then they're good to go. Pretty sure Sherman and Chancellor even avoided surgery, so it wasn't anything debilitating. 

Still, even an injured Sherman, Chancellor, and Thomas is better than the rotation of Stewart/Elam, Melvin, and Levine. So to compare, the Seahawks are fielding their first, second (Maxwell never left), and fourth corners, but we think that's on the same level as the Ravens second (oft injured), sixth, and seventh string corners. Jimmy (first string), Asa Jackson (third string), Danny Gorrer (fourth string), and Chykie Brown (fifth string) were all at one point options that were considered over Melvin and Levine, two undrafted players and one of whom was a converted safety. This doesn't even mention the inherent difference in talent, but we want to compare the situations?

Edited June 10, 2015 by BmoreBird22

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

Pees gets a bad wrap because of the bend-don't break style he brought over ffrom New England.  He's a serious X/O mind and knows how to manage a defense with less talent, allowing the F.O. to invest their money into the offense.  Most fans remember the awesome smashmouth Ravens defenses up through 2010.  That's a diffenent era and F.O. has actively made the mve from defensive first to offense first because of the NFL rule changes and haivng our first franchise QB in team history.  

 

Fans have to get over the past and stop pining for it.  Stop whining ove the missed play-offs of 2013. Rex payed checkers on defense - Pees is playing chess.  He might not be Pagano, but if it wasn't for Pees this team may have missed out on the '12 Super Bowl and possibly the other post-seasons too.

 

The Pats are always contenders.  I've been calling for their demise since 2010, but they continue to surprise.  Eventually things will change, but as much as I dislike that team (pehaps even for then the Steelers) I'll never coun them out as long as they have Belichick and Brady.  Because as long as the league won't take away wins for cheating, New England will find ways to make it happen.

 

"That's a diffenent era and F.O. has actively made the mve from defensive first to offense first "  

 

I wish.Before this years draft I thought Ozzie forgot you could draft offensive players in the top half of the draft.Plus we let our top young WR go in favor of our top young CB.

[codizzle]

"That's a diffenent era and F.O. has actively made the mve from defensive first to offense first "

I wish.Before this years draft I thought Ozzie forgot you could draft offensive players in the top half of the draft.Plus we let our top young WR go in favor of our top young CB.

Every GM in the league would sign Jimmy to an extension over Torrey

[Tru11]

Thomas and Sherman played all 19 games and Pete Carrol described Chancellor's injury as not limiting at all and said that the likelihood was that he had just had continuos damage from a previous knee injury. Didn't Thomas even come back into the Green Bay game after suffering his injury? I mean, this is the NFL and no players are ever 100% and players will frequently play with some sort of damage to their body. If they can be on the field and play, especially given how they didn't seem to have major limitations, then they're good to go. Pretty sure Sherman and Chancellor even avoided surgery, so it wasn't anything debilitating. 

Still, even an injured Sherman, Chancellor, and Thomas is better than the rotation of Stewart/Elam, Melvin, and Levine. So to compare, the Seahawks are fielding their first, second (Maxwell never left), and fourth corners, but we think that's on the same level as the Ravens second (oft injured), sixth, and seventh string corners. Jimmy (first string), Asa Jackson (third string), Danny Gorrer (fourth string), and Chykie Brown (fifth string) were all at one point options that were considered over Melvin and Levine, two undrafted players and one of whom was a converted safety. This doesn't even mention the inherent difference in talent, but we want to compare the situations?

 

so did the seahawks  had injuries or not?

 

im simply pointing out they where far from a healthy defense and brady did the same thing he did to us:

picking on the weakest link.

 

some fans think the hawks where healthy apparently.

 

if you wanna compare both units toe to toe then feel free to do just that but I have no intention to argue with you about it since I never suggested the intention to do so.

[BmoreBird22]

so did the seahawks  had injuries or not?

 

im simply pointing out they where far from a healthy defense and brady did the same thing he did to us:

picking on the weakest link.

 

some fans think the hawks where healthy apparently.

 

if you wanna compare both units toe to toe then feel free to do just that but I have no intention to argue with you about it since I never suggested the intention to do so.

I'm just saying that there is a major inherent difference and the fact that the Ravens were able to do about as well as the Seahawks secondary is very impressive. Sure, they had injuries, just like every single team in the NFL. There's were admittedly some bigger injuries than you're likely to hear about on a normal basis, but it's not like they missed tons of games and then came back just for the Super Bowl. These injuries did not hold any of them back.

[Rodgers_To_Nelson]

I am still stinging over that NFC championship game where we had Seattle beat.

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

Every GM in the league would sign Jimmy to an extension over Torrey

 

I kind of agree with you.I don't think it's as much of a no brainer as you make it seem because of Jimmy's injury history and they're pretty much on the same level talent wise when they are both fully healthy.The only reason I would maybe opt to sign Jimmy over Torrey is because finding talented and consistent CB's has become harder to do.Other than that they are pretty much on the same level at their positions.

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

I am still stinging over that NFC championship game where we had Seattle beat.

 

I can't remember the last time I've seen an ENTIRE team choke like that on such a big stage.

[Adreme]

I kind of agree with you.I don't think it's as much of a no brainer as you make it seem because of Jimmy's injury history and they're pretty much on the same level talent wise when they are both fully healthy.The only reason I would maybe opt to sign Jimmy over Torrey is because finding talented and consistent CB's has become harder to do.Other than that they are pretty much on the same level at their positions.

 

There talent level is not even close to similar.  Injury history aside Jimmy Smith has emerged into one of the top CBs in the game who's sole weakness seems to be he isnt as much of an interception machine as other top CBs but the numbers backed him up as a shut down corner whereas Torrie is an above average receiver who has very good speed and is a solid route runner but has poor ball tracking ability which often causes him to lose track of where the ball will go and force him to readjust on the fly.  

 

I love Torrie but he got drastically over payed whereas the Ravens managed to get a great contract in terms of value when it came to Jimmy and top CBs are not exactly much cheaper then top WRs.

[BmoreBird22]

There talent level is not even close to similar.  Injury history aside Jimmy Smith has emerged into one of the top CBs in the game who's sole weakness seems to be he isnt as much of an interception machine as other top CBs but the numbers backed him up as a shut down corner whereas Torrie is an above average receiver who has very good speed and is a solid route runner but has poor ball tracking ability which often causes him to lose track of where the ball will go and force him to readjust on the fly.  

 

I love Torrie but he got drastically over payed whereas the Ravens managed to get a great contract in terms of value when it came to Jimmy and top CBs are not exactly much cheaper then top WRs.

I'm glad someone beat me to this because I'm just not even sure how someone can begin to try to even compare the two. Jimmy I'd arguably top three, and surely top 5, at the position when he's healthy. Probably the most impressive thing about him, and something the Ravens surely missed last year, is that he just does not give up YAC. He makes the tackle immediately which speaks to his closing burst, tackling ability, and his ability to just play sticky coverage. He just doesn't get beat, either. Every catch is either underneath for two yards or it's worked for far more than what is comfortable for a receiver.

Torrey was a mediocre receiver who couldn't track the deep ball well, despite his reputation for being a deep ball receiver. He refused to go up and fight for the ball at all and he was absolutely soft. Two games that could have been possible wins were taken away by Torrey being soft. The drop in the Colts game and the more important divisional game in the playoffs when he didn't even go fight for the ball because he might get hit.

Dude, I don't even understand how someone could even reasonably entertain the idea that they're equal in talent

[codizzle]

I kind of agree with you.I don't think it's as much of a no brainer as you make it seem because of Jimmy's injury history and they're pretty much on the same level talent wise when they are both fully healthy.The only reason I would maybe opt to sign Jimmy over Torrey is because finding talented and consistent CB's has become harder to do.Other than that they are pretty much on the same level at their positions.

Since it's been answered twice already, I'll just say na

[redrum52]

I can't remember the last time I've seen an ENTIRE team choke like that on such a big stage.

2011 both the Ravens and Niners gave away their championship game... then again there's also the SB.

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

There talent level is not even close to similar.  Injury history aside Jimmy Smith has emerged into one of the top CBs in the game who's sole weakness seems to be he isnt as much of an interception machine as other top CBs but the numbers backed him up as a shut down corner whereas Torrie is an above average receiver who has very good speed and is a solid route runner but has poor ball tracking ability which often causes him to lose track of where the ball will go and force him to readjust on the fly.  

 

I love Torrie but he got drastically over payed whereas the Ravens managed to get a great contract in terms of value when it came to Jimmy and top CBs are not exactly much cheaper then top WRs.

 

Torrey got paid what he deserved.His stats and talent back up that $8M per year he is getting.

 

 

I'm glad someone beat me to this because I'm just not even sure how someone can begin to try to even compare the two. Jimmy I'd arguably top three, and surely top 5, at the position when he's healthy. Probably the most impressive thing about him, and something the Ravens surely missed last year, is that he just does not give up YAC. He makes the tackle immediately which speaks to his closing burst, tackling ability, and his ability to just play sticky coverage. He just doesn't get beat, either. Every catch is either underneath for two yards or it's worked for far more than what is comfortable for a receiver.

Torrey was a mediocre receiver who couldn't track the deep ball well, despite his reputation for being a deep ball receiver. He refused to go up and fight for the ball at all and he was absolutely soft. Two games that could have been possible wins were taken away by Torrey being soft. The drop in the Colts game and the more important divisional game in the playoffs when he didn't even go fight for the ball because he might get hit.

Dude, I don't even understand how someone could even reasonably entertain the idea that they're equal in talent

 

I'm tired of having to knock my favorite team lol but Jimmy is not a top 5 CB.There are CB's in the league that cover just as well as he can and also get interceptions.Plus the Sherman argument applies to him because he only plays one side of the field.He doesn't move around like guys like Haden,Patterson,Talib and Revis do.Also Torrey averaged 53 catches 900+ yards and 7.5 touchdowns a year for us.That's not mediocre.Why are you letting two plays define his career?And saying he wasn't good at tracking deep balls is crazy.I'll give you the fact that he didn't always fight for contested balls but he couldn't track a deep ball???Really???

 

Since it's been answered twice already, I'll just say na

 

 

Fair enough.

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

2011 both the Ravens and Niners gave away their championship game... then again there's also the SB.

 

 

Yeah the Ravens and 49ers choked in 2011 but it wasn't an entire team thing.The Packers choked on offense,defense and special teams at the end of that game.

[redrum52]

Yeah the Ravens and 49ers choked in 2011 but it wasn't an entire team thing.The Packers choked on offense,defense and special teams at the end of that game.

Good point

[BmoreBird22]

I'm tired of having to knock my favorite team lol but Jimmy is not a top 5 CB.There are CB's in the league that cover just as well as he can and also get interceptions.Plus the Sherman argument applies to him because he only plays one side of the field.He doesn't move around like guys like Haden,Patterson,Talib and Revis do.Also Torrey averaged 53 catches 900+ yards and 7.5 touchdowns a year for us.That's not mediocre.Why are you letting two plays define his career?And saying he wasn't good at tracking deep balls is crazy.I'll give you the fact that he didn't always fight for contested balls but he couldn't track a deep ball???Really???

Haden is pretty much living on his name at this point. He's just not nearly as good as he used to be. Same for Patrick Peterson, although I never actually thought he was that great. Relies way too much on athleticism and gets burned for it quite a bit. He's good for seven or eight touchdowns a year given up. Talib is far past his prime and doesn't shadow guys considering he plays with Chris Harris Jr. Jimmy is very capable of following guys, as evidenced by how well he played Calvin Johnson.

 

Still, you don't get crazy interception numbers when you're being targeted two to three times a game and giving up passes that are about four to five yards. He just doesn't have a whole lot of room to make these plays because teams are trying to get the ball out quickly underneath to mitigate the chance for him to get a pass defensed. He's actually putting up pass deflections on par with all those corners you named over the past two seasons, since those were his two big seasons.

 

No, I don't think he tracked the deep ball all that well. I think that's a really big reason for his dropped passes is that he didn't put himself in the best possible position to go up and make the play. He was often having issues with gearing up or down and making a good, clean play on the ball. That's an issue. Take away his one big season where he was force-fed the ball and his numbers look more like 49 catches, 820 yards, 7.5 touchdowns. That's not nearly worth $8M

[Inqui]

Haden is pretty much living on his name at this point. He's just not nearly as good as he used to be. Same for Patrick Peterson, although I never actually thought he was that great. Relies way too much on athleticism and gets burned for it quite a bit. He's good for seven or eight touchdowns a year given up. Talib is far past his prime and doesn't shadow guys considering he plays with Chris Harris Jr. Jimmy is very capable of following guys, as evidenced by how well he played Calvin Johnson.

 

Still, you don't get crazy interception numbers when you're being targeted two to three times a game and giving up passes that are about four to five yards. He just doesn't have a whole lot of room to make these plays because teams are trying to get the ball out quickly underneath to mitigate the chance for him to get a pass defensed. He's actually putting up pass deflections on par with all those corners you named over the past two seasons, since those were his two big seasons.

 

No, I don't think he tracked the deep ball all that well. I think that's a really big reason for his dropped passes is that he didn't put himself in the best possible position to go up and make the play. He was often having issues with gearing up or down and making a good, clean play on the ball. That's an issue. Take away his one big season where he was force-fed the ball and his numbers look more like 49 catches, 820 yards, 7.5 touchdowns. That's not nearly worth $8M

This. Jimmy's game is to single-handedly lock down part of the field and let the rest of the secondary pick up the rest. His definition of a big game is when he doesn't get targeted, and when you have him on AJ Green or Antonio Brown that kind of thing is invaluable for a DC but it doesn't show up in the stats. And that leads to him being generally underrated - even on here, it seems.

 

Torrey's a good player, but take out his burning speed (which can be replicated by 50 different players) and he doesn't offer a whole lot else at a high level. Like I say, he's a good player but not even close to Jimmy. Matt Millen's the only person I can name who'd extend Torrey over Jimmy.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

I kind of agree with you.I don't think it's as much of a no brainer as you make it seem because of Jimmy's injury history and they're pretty much on the same level talent wise when they are both fully healthy.The only reason I would maybe opt to sign Jimmy over Torrey is because finding talented and consistent CB's has become harder to do.Other than that they are pretty much on the same level at their positions.

Jimmy when healthy the past 2 seasons was playing like a top 3 corner in the league capable of erasing the leagues best receivers on an island.

He was playing on par or better than Revis, Sherman, Peterson, etc...

Torrey, while I actually think was better and more valuable than he's been given credit for recently, never played like or had the talent to be a top receiver in a good passing offense, let alone be considered among the best 3-4 receivers in the league.

So, no. Their talent levels are not anywhere close to each other. Jimmy is vastly superior at a more important position.

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

Haden is pretty much living on his name at this point. He's just not nearly as good as he used to be. Same for Patrick Peterson, although I never actually thought he was that great. Relies way too much on athleticism and gets burned for it quite a bit. He's good for seven or eight touchdowns a year given up. Talib is far past his prime and doesn't shadow guys considering he plays with Chris Harris Jr. Jimmy is very capable of following guys, as evidenced by how well he played Calvin Johnson.

 

Still, you don't get crazy interception numbers when you're being targeted two to three times a game and giving up passes that are about four to five yards. He just doesn't have a whole lot of room to make these plays because teams are trying to get the ball out quickly underneath to mitigate the chance for him to get a pass defensed. He's actually putting up pass deflections on par with all those corners you named over the past two seasons, since those were his two big seasons.

 

No, I don't think he tracked the deep ball all that well. I think that's a really big reason for his dropped passes is that he didn't put himself in the best possible position to go up and make the play. He was often having issues with gearing up or down and making a good, clean play on the ball. That's an issue. Take away his one big season where he was force-fed the ball and his numbers look more like 49 catches, 820 yards, 7.5 touchdowns. That's not nearly worth $8M

 

 

I didn't watch Talib play much last year because I didn't watch that many Broncos games,but 2 years ago Belicheck used Talib to cover Jimmy Graham and he shut him down.Jimmy did a good job cover Megatron in the second half of that lions game but I'm not sure he could be used to take away a TE like Graham.IMO,Talib is the better player.

[BmoreBird22]

I didn't watch Talib play much last year because I didn't watch that many Broncos games,but 2 years ago Belicheck used Talib to cover Jimmy Graham and he shut him down.Jimmy did a good job cover Megatron in the second half of that lions game but I'm not sure he could be used to take away a TE like Graham.IMO,Talib is the better player.

Talib hasn't been that good for the Broncos. Chris Harris is definitely the superior corner