How Can the Ravens Lower Flacco's Cap Number Next Year?

[CTFan]

I enjoyed John Eisenberg's column about Flacco's contract, but I'm confused as to how much we can realistically lower his cap hit next year?

 

He's going to want more money per year on a new contract, and eventually we have to pay for the low cap numbers we've had from him for three years. The only thing that will help offset this is that the Team Cap Limit will increase a bit each year, but that alone doesn't seem to be enough and league wide salaries at other positions also increase each year.

 

Can someone provide a logical scenario as to how we do this?

[Rav'n Maniac]

I enjoyed John Eisenberg's column about Flacco's contract, but I'm confused as to how much we can realistically lower his cap hit next year?

 

He's going to want more money per year on a new contract, and eventually we have to pay for the low cap numbers we've had from him for three years. The only thing that will help offset this is that the Team Cap Limit will increase a bit each year, but that alone doesn't seem to be enough and league wide salaries at other positions also increase each year.

 

Can someone provide a logical scenario as to how we do this?

We will start by gaining almost 20M in dead money relief after this season when Rice, Ngata and others come off the books. Then by paying a portion of it up front in bonus money that will be spread out evenly over the length of the contract.

Edited June 7, 2015 by Rav'n Maniac

[CTFan]

I realize we've got 20m dead money, but we've got a 20M QB that's only been producing cap hits of far less for the past three years. At some point, the loans come due, right?

Edited June 7, 2015 by CTFan

[Mt. Crushmore]

A brand new contract.  Rip up the old one and create a new one

[757RavensFan]

If January Joe is voted Super Bowl MVP again in Feb 16, it's gonna be hard to not pay the man at least $20M p/year until he retires. 

[Rav'n Maniac]

I realize we've got 20m dead money, but we've got a 20M QB that's only been producing cap hits of far less for the past three years. At some point, the loans come due, right?

 

 

A brand new contract.  Rip up the old one and create a new one

This^. CTFan - Why don't you try to PM "B-more Ravor". He is the resident contract & salary cap master. Brian will answer your questions.

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

I believe they will get a deal done with Flacco. I believe they need to put up more guaranteed money in a signing bonus of some sort Oz is the expert at doing this obviously it is not me but you need to pay Flacco whats right. If I am not mistaken a bonus is spread through out the contract so If Oz made a contract with the bulk of the contract being guaranteed money in the form of a bonus it should not be that hard. Flacco needs to be paid top 5 I.M.H.O. Just a couple of facts about Joe he never gets in trouble off the field and he works magic on it plus he is very durable. Worth the investment for sure. So you figure approximatly and this is just an uneducated guess of mine but 15 million dollars guaranteed a year and Flacco would probably sign long term and free us up some cap space at the same time. Can anyone name another player in the NFL who would be a better long term investment with a lot of guaranteed money in the contract? Heck make the whole contract a guaranteed bonus. 

[allblackraven]

Flacco's new deal should be easier than the last one even though it will cost more. Cap is increasing, we get back ton of dead money and apart from the OG position, there isn't really any huge pressure to pay many more players.

[Ravens4Real]

The only item that the Ravens can do nothing about is the signing bonus that they have Flacco from his last deal. The still have to pay the remaining amount we year that was rated out through his contract.

I believe that number is around $6 million. So with factoring in no other money, his cap hit is going to be at least that. Obviously there are various things that go into how much his cap hit will actually be.

[B-more Ravor]

 

A brand new contract.  Rip up the old one and create a new one

 

 

Yup.

 

Here's an example:

 

Present:

Yr/Base/Proration/Cap#

2016:     $18M     $10.55M       $28.55M

2017:     $20.6M  $10.55M       $31.15M

2018:     $20M     $4.75M         $24.75M

 

 

Estimated Deal:

2016 Signing Bonus - $27M

2017 Option Bonus - $6M

2018 Option Bonus - $4M

Total deal: $132M

Averge/yr: $22.5M

1st 3 yr Payout: $70M

New money: $73.4M

New Numbers:

Yr/Base/PresentProration/NewProration/Cap#

2016    $9M     $10.55M    $5.4M     $24.95M (reduction of $6M)

2017    $10M   $10.55M    $6.6M     $27.15M  (reduction of $4M)

2018    $14M   $4.75M      $7.6M     $26.35M

2019    $17M    0              $7.6M     $24.6M

2020    $19M    0              $7.6M     $26.6M

2021    $26M    0              $2.2M    $28.6M

 

 

Edited June 8, 2015 by B-more Ravor

[GrimCoconut]

I don't think his contract necessarily hurts us as it stands. It's tough but it's certainly possible to maintain it with how the cap increases. QB rate is climbing, while other positions get cheaper. The natural ebb and flow predicts we should be okay regardless.

[CTFan]

I'm confused.

 

Are these long term contracts not really intended to be in place for their full term?

 

Are teams using the extra years simply as a way to defer cap hits?

[rmcjacket23]

1. Basically everybody is in agreement that the only realistic way to lower the cap hit is via an extension. So look for Joe to add probably at least two more years to his deal. I know people like to throw out the word "restructure", but for me at least, that's not really accurate when you're literally adding years to a contract. Webb's was a "restructure"... he took a paycut. If you were to convert salary into a signing bonus and spread it out, that's a restructure. When you add years, at least in my opinion, that's an extension.

 

2. One way or another, I think the FO knows they need to "flatten out" his cap hits, so we don't see these $10-12M jumps in cap hits year over year. That's not sustainable long-term, and eventually it catches up to them.

 

3. I don't think the extension is going to lower his cap hit dramatically really. I'd still expect him to carry a hit north of $20M next season, and probably every season after that. I think the days of Joe playing under $15M cap hits or less are officially over after this season.

[izvoodoo]

I'm confused.

 

Are these long term contracts not really intended to be in place for their full term?

 

Are teams using the extra years simply as a way to defer cap hits?

Pretty much.  I'll be interested to see what they get.  QBs are getting super duper expensive.  

[JO_75]

Flacco's new deal should be easier than the last one even though it will cost more. Cap is increasing, we get back ton of dead money and apart from the OG position, there isn't really any huge pressure to pay many more players.

 

You think that maybe helps us actually keep Joe at $28M next year? Look at the Saints, they are keeping Brees at his $26M cap hit for this year and they were tight on cap space. I think there could be a way we keep Joe at his $28M cap hit and the deal essentially becomes a 4 year deal and we give him a new contract in 2017 when his cap shoots to $31M.

[Ravenseconbeast]

Flacco's new deal should be easier than the last one even though it will cost more. Cap is increasing, we get back ton of dead money and apart from the OG position, there isn't really any huge pressure to pay many more players.

Isn't that just for next year? Time flies..after next year, we have jernigan, Mosley, tucker(after tag), Wagner, zuttah, and doom.

And I forgot Brandon Williams..oops

Edited June 8, 2015 by Ravenseconbeast

[BirdWatcher]

I'm confused.

 

Are these long term contracts not really intended to be in place for their full term?

 

Are teams using the extra years simply as a way to defer cap hits?

Yes

[B-more Ravor]

I don't think his contract necessarily hurts us as it stands. It's tough but it's certainly possible to maintain it with how the cap increases. QB rate is climbing, while other positions get cheaper. The natural ebb and flow predicts we should be okay regardless.

 

 

You think that maybe helps us actually keep Joe at $28M next year? Look at the Saints, they are keeping Brees at his $26M cap hit for this year and they were tight on cap space. I think there could be a way we keep Joe at his $28M cap hit and the deal essentially becomes a 4 year deal and we give him a new contract in 2017 when his cap shoots to $31M.

 

 

Yes, I think it's possible and I expect the Ravens to tell Flacco and Linta just that. 

 

But, I have no doubt they will want to get something done next year, just the same.  If they don't, it will be really tight and they would then be forced to go into 2017 absolutely needed to restructure the deal and then - again - all of the leverage will be back in Linta's hands.  Things - as far as the structure and the need to redo the deal after 3 years - didn't work out so well for the team the last time that happened.

[GrimCoconut]

Yes, I think it's possible and I expect the Ravens to tell Flacco and Linta just that. 

 

But, I have no doubt they will want to get something done next year, just the same.  If they don't, it will be really tight and they would then be forced to go into 2017 absolutely needed to restructure the deal and then - again - all of the leverage will be back in Linta's hands.  Things - as far as the structure and the need to redo the deal after 3 years - didn't work out so well for the team the last time that happened.

Yeah, I think the team can manage close to 25M and still compete, relatively speaking, on the FA market to retain its talents. With that said, 31M is a bit tough with the free agents coming due and I don't see that being nearly as palpable as the current rate. 

[B-more Ravor]

1. Basically everybody is in agreement that the only realistic way to lower the cap hit is via an extension. So look for Joe to add probably at least two more years to his deal. I know people like to throw out the word "restructure", but for me at least, that's not really accurate when you're literally adding years to a contract. Webb's was a "restructure"... he took a paycut. If you were to convert salary into a signing bonus and spread it out, that's a restructure. When you add years, at least in my opinion, that's an extension.

 

2. One way or another, I think the FO knows they need to "flatten out" his cap hits, so we don't see these $10-12M jumps in cap hits year over year. That's not sustainable long-term, and eventually it catches up to them.

 

3. I don't think the extension is going to lower his cap hit dramatically really. I'd still expect him to carry a hit north of $20M next season, and probably every season after that. I think the days of Joe playing under $15M cap hits or less are officially over after this season.

 

1.  Agreed.

 

2.  Agreed. With the now larger increases in the Cap, I think they will definitely be able to flatten it out and accommodate the higher Cap hits, instead of the structure of the last deal.  At least, I hope so.

 

3.  Agreed.  I don't think they need to create a lot of Cap space, just smooth out those 2016 and 2017 Cap hits.  So, a $4-5M Cap savings each year will provide them with some relief, while protecting against huge increases in the later year Cap numbers.

Edited June 9, 2015 by B-more Ravor

[gabefergy]

When he first signed that contract, I thought for sure there would be an extension after 2015. I'm not so sure now. With the increases to the cap moving forward, it might make the most sense to let him play it out.

[rmcjacket23]

When he first signed that contract, I thought for sure there would be an extension after 2015. I'm not so sure now. With the increases to the cap moving forward, it might make the most sense to let him play it out.

Even with the cap increases, $30M for a QB against the cap is just far too much, which is what his 2017 number would be. $20-25M range is fine, which is probably what we are going to be shooting for.

 

You're going to lose a lot of quality players to FA with a QB taking up $30M in cap space. Remember, when the cap increases, so does the cost of players contracts pretty much across the board.

[FerrariFan87]

I enjoyed John Eisenberg's column about Flacco's contract, but I'm confused as to how much we can realistically lower his cap hit next year?

 

He's going to want more money per year on a new contract, and eventually we have to pay for the low cap numbers we've had from him for three years. The only thing that will help offset this is that the Team Cap Limit will increase a bit each year, but that alone doesn't seem to be enough and league wide salaries at other positions also increase each year.

 

Can someone provide a logical scenario as to how we do this?

I imagine the Ravens will re-work the deal (restructure) and give him an extension. In other words, they'll give him a "signing bonus" of like $30M and add on 3 or 4 years to the back end to spread everything out, keeping the cap hit manageable.

[gabefergy]

Even with the cap increases, $30M for a QB against the cap is just far too much, which is what his 2017 number would be. $20-25M range is fine, which is probably what we are going to be shooting for.

You're going to lose a lot of quality players to FA with a QB taking up $30M in cap space. Remember, when the cap increases, so does the cost of players contracts pretty much across the board.

Not really. Five million dollars doesn't mean losing out on a lot of free agents, and while $28M feels like a lot it's probably going to still be less than 20% of the cap. It's not way too much.

Extending him is most likely going to happen at some point or another, but it doesn't have to happen this next offseason. One reason is the Ravens don't have that many FAs that need to be retained and even with Flacco's cap number there should still be close to $20M in cap room with the projected cap increases.

We already know the FO is unlikely to retain both Yanda and Osemele. Then you have Tucker, Hill, and Upshaw. None should break the bank and there are going to be vets that can be let go as well...Elam, Canty, Smith Sr, Daryl Smith.

The Ravens may want to extend him, but they won't have to. And if they do extend it will be on their terms.

[Ravenseconbeast]

Play this year out.  Plenty of young and old players to evaluate.

 

Jernigan, Mosley, B.Williams, KO

 

then tucker, yanda, zuttah & doom.  

 

Flacco contract needs to keep this team viable.   We need to maintain our talents in order to get another Lombardi for Baltimore.   

[rmcjacket23]

Not really. Five million dollars doesn't mean losing out on a lot of free agents, and while $28M feels like a lot it's probably going to still be less than 20% of the cap. It's not way too much.

Extending him is most likely going to happen at some point or another, but it doesn't have to happen this next offseason. One reason is the Ravens don't have that many FAs that need to be retained and even with Flacco's cap number there should still be close to $20M in cap room with the projected cap increases.

We already know the FO is unlikely to retain both Yanda and Osemele. Then you have Tucker, Hill, and Upshaw. None should break the bank and there are going to be vets that can be let go as well...Elam, Canty, Smith Sr, Daryl Smith.

The Ravens may want to extend him, but they won't have to. And if they do extend it will be on their terms.

Not the point though. Not just a 2016 cap analysis... its a 2016, and 2017, and 2018 cap analysis, which is what the FO looks at and wisely so. Just because we could afford that player next season doesn't mean we could afford to carry that same contract 2-3 years later, when we could easily be committed to carrying the contract. That could be the difference in retaining a player 2-3 years from now, not just next offseason. And 20% of the salary cap space for ONE player on a 51 player cap roster is a gigantic number obviously, regardless of who it is. You'd be looking at the average cap hit of the other 51 players being between $2-2.5M in that scenario. If you were to really look at the current 2016 structure, the top 8 salary cap hits account for just under $80M in cap space, which will be over half of the allotted space (and practically none of those players are in danger of getting released based on cap hits and dead money). So you're looking at the average cap value of the other 43 players being under $2M. That's rookie/aging veteran scale type money. 

 

This is why you don't see barely any team carrying $30M cap hits for QBs. They see the same thing everybody else does. 

 

Of course the Ravens don't have to extend him... its just in the extreme best interests of both them and Flacco to do so.

[allblackraven]

Even with the cap increases, $30M for a QB against the cap is just far too much, which is what his 2017 number would be. $20-25M range is fine, which is probably what we are going to be shooting for.

 

You're going to lose a lot of quality players to FA with a QB taking up $30M in cap space. Remember, when the cap increases, so does the cost of players contracts pretty much across the board.

 

Thirty mil might be too much to carry but between that and the higher end of the range you suggested, there isn't enough savings to help you keep the other players from leaving in FA. It should be possible to make an extension so that Joe, providing of course he still plays at the level that commands such pay, caries the hit in lower 20 mils, say 22 for the rest of his career but that deal needs to be made after 2015 season, not later.

 

Having said that, I don't think $30 M in 2016 is totally terrible but then the future looks bleak.

[gabefergy]

Not the point though. Not just a 2016 cap analysis... its a 2016, and 2017, and 2018 cap analysis, which is what the FO looks at and wisely so. Just because we could afford that player next season doesn't mean we could afford to carry that same contract 2-3 years later, when we could easily be committed to carrying the contract. That could be the difference in retaining a player 2-3 years from now, not just next offseason. And 20% of the salary cap space for ONE player on a 51 player cap roster is a gigantic number obviously, regardless of who it is. You'd be looking at the average cap hit of the other 51 players being between $2-2.5M in that scenario. If you were to really look at the current 2016 structure, the top 8 salary cap hits account for just under $80M in cap space, which will be over half of the allotted space (and practically none of those players are in danger of getting released based on cap hits and dead money). So you're looking at the average cap value of the other 43 players being under $2M. That's rookie/aging veteran scale type money.

This is why you don't see barely any team carrying $30M cap hits for QBs. They see the same thing everybody else does.

Of course the Ravens don't have to extend him... its just in the extreme best interests of both them and Flacco to do so.

Extending later in the contract is ALWAYS preferable to earlier because there is less dead money. Extending him earlier just means more dead money down the road and high cap numbers for the forseeable future. Did you see the numbers bmore ravor posted? That is not ideal, but the Ravens knew what they were getting into when they structured it the way they did.

This is how the NFL works in case you haven't been paying attention. Players on their rookie contracts make up close to 50% of rosters to allow for the high priced contracts, for the Ravens it is probably even higher than that and fortunately the Ravens are good enough at drafting to field a high quality roster with so many young players.

[Sizzlebshu]

Extending later in the contract is ALWAYS preferable to earlier because there is less dead money. Extending him earlier just means more dead money down the road and high cap numbers for the forseeable future. Did you see the numbers bmore ravor posted? That is not ideal, but the Ravens knew what they were getting into when they structured it the way they did.

This is how the NFL works in case you haven't been paying attention. Players on their rookie contracts make up close to 50% of rosters to allow for the high priced contracts, for the Ravens it is probably even higher than that and fortunately the Ravens are good enough at drafting to field a high quality roster with so many young players.

Its funny you bring this up because Im actually writing an article on contracts and how understanding them correlates in predicting what teams will do in the draft. 

[Kraven]

 

We are going to have to pay a lot more and Flacco's cap number will be much higher than it has been to make up for it. The Ravens Have been doing a great Job of getting and being younger. Their best team attribute is that the Ravens are more accurate in seeing the value in not paying players more than they think they are worth in a long term (cap wise) deal and it has been paying off. We have been seeing the resuls of that. We lost some very good players this year and yet I do not feel as though the overall ability of the Ravens has lessened. If you look at the defense or the offense as a whole unit the Extra or Special play making abilities that have been lost have been made up for or improved as a Unit. An Example is that Ngata is gone but the secondary is a lot better, Or that Smith and Daniels are gone but we have 4 Good tight ends right now, a speedster WR that even faster than Smith and a Lot of under rated WR talent thatis likely to shock a lot of teams. The Offensive line may not be rated number 1 but with the depth and proven abilities of the backups it is a lot stronger than most of those ranked above it for the long haul. Next year we will see a few more senior guys leave and others slot right in with little disruptiion. Veteran or Rookie they will all be lower budget than most other organizations can hope to accomplish and still win. Its always the holes that get you. Last year it was a banged up secondary. Hopefully this year it will be minimal.

 

I am really wondering what the Ravens plan to do for kick and punt returners?

Edited June 13, 2015 by Kraven