[News] Late For Work 6/5: Ravens Respond To Marc Trestman's Crash Course With Minimal Mistakes

[rmcjacket23]

Never count Ozzie out, I won't be surprised if both Yanda and Osemele are re-signed. Couple years back we thought we couldn't keep Monroe and Pitta but Ozzie pulled it off. Not to mention we'll have lots of cap next offseason when all this dead cap is gone.

True, but we were actually in this exact same position a few years ago with Yanda/Grubbs, and we weren't able to retain both them. We might be in a little bit better salary cap position this time, but probably not good enough.

[reed20fence]

Am I the only person that thinks its a better business move to resign Osemele, the guy is 24 years old and Yanda will be 32 next year. I love Yanda more than anyone but purely speaking about business, Osemele should be the priority.

That's why this is a dillema. Perfectly reasonable people can disagree on the right way forward. We know Yanda's work ethic by now. If he agrees to play til 36, he'll literally play every down until the final game of the last year of his contract, come hell or high water. And he'll likely continue to play at a top 5 level guard until that point.

On the flip side, Osemele is a beast who has worked his tail off to not only get back on the field after back surgery, but do so in a dominating fashion. You could sign the kid to a 6 year deal and be set at the left guard position for a while.

The only thing we know is that the front office is not comfortable tying up that much cash on 2 positions on the o-line.

Still, they may bite the bullet and pay them both. But it's a risky proposition.

[rmcjacket23]

Keep in mind one key aspect... even though we may technically have the cap space to afford both KO and Yanda for NEXT SEASON, that doesn't mean we can actually afford to sign both of them. Could we probably sign both to a deal that allowed both to have relatively low cap numbers next season? Probably, but that's not the problem. The problem is 2-3 years later, when you're staring at perhaps $7-8M cap hits for each, and you're investing upwards of $30M a season on your offensive line. At those times, you're looking at having to cut or not resign other potential key players, such as guys like Rick Wagner, CJ Mosley, etc., who would all be coming up for contracts at those times.  I think we all get caught up in only worrying about the cap situation in a very short term window, which isn't the best approach.

[Crimson Raven]

Toughest part of the job. Too many good players to sign. If we can't sign both, we'll have to see who could be replaced.

[The Mom Gene]

Keep in mind one key aspect... even though we may technically have the cap space to afford both KO and Yanda for NEXT SEASON, that doesn't mean we can actually afford to sign both of them. Could we probably sign both to a deal that allowed both to have relatively low cap numbers next season? Probably, but that's not the problem. The problem is 2-3 years later, when you're staring at perhaps $7-8M cap hits for each, and you're investing upwards of $30M a season on your offensive line. At those times, you're looking at having to cut or not resign other potential key players, such as guys like Rick Wagner, CJ Mosley, etc., who would all be coming up for contracts at those times.  I think we all get caught up in only worrying about the cap situation in a very short term window, which isn't the best approach.

I see the restructure of Flacco as being key in that situation.  If he restructures, that frees up more money to keep one or both.  You'll be losing that Rice nut too....  So that will help as well.  I think it can be too difficult to gage too far down the road...  Depends on where we stand with players, injuries, and needs and wants....  We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

[rmcjacket23]

I see the restructure of Flacco as being key in that situation.  If he restructures, that frees up more money to keep one or both.  You'll be losing that Rice nut too....  So that will help as well.  I think it can be too difficult to gage too far down the road...  Depends on where we stand with players, injuries, and needs and wants....  We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

1. I don't really see the Flacco extension having that much impact on the decision, unless he decides to take some kind of large discount, which is incredibly unlikely. All the extension really does is lower his 2016 cap number, which again, isn't the problem. Assuming Joe is still going to be averaging in the ballpark of $20M a season (and could easily be a bit more), he's going to be carrying $20M+ cap hits for several years to come.

 

2. Its not like we are really gaining $9M in cap space from Rice next season, because we aren't. We still have close to $130M in contracts already on the books for 2016, and that's for just 43 players, meaning we would need to add at least 8 more to that, so you're realistically looking at already having $135-$140M on the books. Can we cut some people to create space? Absolutely, but we will also want to sign some FAs like we always do and sign our draft picks like we always do. Heck, by just extending Yanda and signing/franchising Tucker, we may not have barely any cap space to work with anyway.

[The Mom Gene]

1. I don't really see the Flacco extension having that much impact on the decision, unless he decides to take some kind of large discount, which is incredibly unlikely. All the extension really does is lower his 2016 cap number, which again, isn't the problem. Assuming Joe is still going to be averaging in the ballpark of $20M a season (and could easily be a bit more), he's going to be carrying $20M+ cap hits for several years to come.

 

2. Its not like we are really gaining $9M in cap space from Rice next season, because we aren't. We still have close to $130M in contracts already on the books for 2016, and that's for just 43 players, meaning we would need to add at least 8 more to that, so you're realistically looking at already having $135-$140M on the books. Can we cut some people to create space? Absolutely, but we will also want to sign some FAs like we always do and sign our draft picks like we always do. Heck, by just extending Yanda and signing/franchising Tucker, we may not have barely any cap space to work with anyway.

I kind of think he will...  maybe not $$$ wise...  but salary guarantee... As so many do during a restructure, they convert the $$$ to signing bonus and such in order to free up the space that the team needs.

 

As far as Rice, I wasn't thinking we'd gain a full $9M, but we won't have that on the books at all.  We'll be fine.  I do fully put my trust in the Great and Powerful Ozzie.

[burnbigben]

KO's career is on the rise, at 31 - Yanda is on the backside of his career. He is still a great player at this point, but giving him a large longterm deal probably isn't in the teams best interest.

[rmcjacket23]

I kind of think he will...  maybe not $$$ wise...  but salary guarantee... As so many do during a restructure, they convert the $$$ to signing bonus and such in order to free up the space that the team needs.

 

As far as Rice, I wasn't thinking we'd gain a full $9M, but we won't have that on the books at all.  We'll be fine.  I do fully put my trust in the Great and Powerful Ozzie.

Well, if you're converting non-guaranteed salary into a signing bonus, then you're guaranteeing it, so Joe is actually getting more guaranteed money under that scenario.

 

The only way that Joe's deal ends up much better than it is right now is 1. if the Ravens prefer to "flatten out" his cap hits over time, so we don't see such massive swings and/or 2. if for some unknown reason Joe just decides he's happy playing for $15M a year, which I don't think anybody reasonably expects.

 

Bottom line for me, I'm expecting to see Joe in the $20M range as far as a cap hit goes beginning next year and for the forseeable future. In pretty much any scenario I see, his cap number is going to rise from 2015 to 2016, as it has continued to rise basically every year of his career. His cap hit next season likely won't be near the $28M its projected to be, but I'm not expecting to get $10M in cap savings either. If we lowered it below $20M, I'd be quite surprised.

 

I think the biggest misconception is that Joe is somehow doing the Ravens a favor, or that he even needs to. He holds practically 100% of the leverage next season, and he's not likely to agree to extend any contract unless he gets substantial money up front next season and future guaranteed money, which he has rightfully earned. Joe's scheduled to make $18M next season, and only $11M this season. You're going to likely have to come up with an extension that pays him in the $20M+ range next season and guarantees him more money, since his guarantees are gone after this season. There's a number of different ways that you can do that, but make no mistake, its mostly up to him.

 

If he just decides to say no and play out the year, there's practically nothing the Ravens can do about it.

[hen826957]

I think extending like Osemele can give a little more money to save now than signing him next year just like Jimmy Smith. Then we could focus on sign Yanda like to a 3 or 4 year deal and then we could franchise Tucker. It would save a lot of room if we extend K.O. now before he hits the market.

[hen826957]

I mean focus on Yanda and Tucker next year.

[hen826957]

I wish we could use that money from Monroe and put in to those two guys in K.O> and Yanda because Monroe hasn't live up his expectations. I would just put James Hurst as LT who just about as good as Monroe. But Monroe is okay though.

[balfan23]

If we have to choose between Yanda and Osemele, I think it has to be Yanda. It is a tough call though, no doubt. Yanda is the more proven player. He's had virtually no injury history and we know just how nasty he plays. While youth favors KO, its not like Yanda is over the hill. If he gets a 4-5 year deal, he'll likely not see a big drop off in his performance during that time. It is not crazy to see interior o-line players still be very effective in their mid-30s.

 

In the end, it will likely come down to which player is most willing to keep his contract in line with what the team needs vs. who wants to really cash in. Most likely, it will be KO that will be looking to maximize his contract, as it is his first post-rookie contact. If we indeed can't keep both, it will be sad to see either of them go.

[green.ravensfan]

Sign Yanda, Tucker, Hill, and tag Osemele? What's the hit on a tag for a guard?

[edreed2o]

Umm Monroe has done very well. He had an injury last year that plagued him but he still held his own. Getting tired of people complaining about Monroe. He was the one who brought this beast O-line together. Remember how it was before Monroe? Michael Oher and a streaky Mckinney. What has he done to warrant this complaining?

[steelcityraven]

I think that Yanda is a Raven for life but I also think that KO has more life left. I see us getting a hometown discount on YANDA and finding a way to sign both him and KO.... If we do not - I wouldn't be surprised if Yanda is the one gone- we have let a lot of Raven for life type players go at the end of their career (Ed Reed, Todd Heap, Kelly Greg, JJ, Ngata, Torrey) I can keep going.... I think the point is made. KO has more self-life left then Yanda and has not seemed to even reach his peak just yet.... I hope we can work something out to keep both but if Not.... I think KO stays????

[Flamengo1265]

This salary cap thing is complicated when you don't have a QB whose wife makes $50 million a year.

[rmcjacket23]

Sign Yanda, Tucker, Hill, and tag Osemele? What's the hit on a tag for a guard?

$13M or more. Not an option.

[Drew P]

Sign Yanda, Tucker, Hill, and tag Osemele? What's the hit on a tag for a guard?

 

Urschel will take over for KO nicely

[PalmBayRaven]

My feelings on Monroe is he is shorter than a Left Tackle should be plus for the money were paying him I just haven't seen it. My opinion only but I thought Hurst played well in the playoffs. Jonathan Ogden was 6'7", McKinney was 6'8", Monroe is 6'4" and I think he gets beat more than he should. I think he is the weak link on the line.

[rmcjacket23]

My feelings on Monroe is he is shorter than a Left Tackle should be plus for the money were paying him I just haven't seen it. My opinion only but I thought Hurst played well in the playoffs. Jonathan Ogden was 6'7", McKinney was 6'8", Monroe is 6'4" and I think he gets beat more than he should. I think he is the weak link on the line.

Height doesn't really matter that much for LT. Its lateral quickness, which Monroe has. McKinnie didn't, and that's why he got beat by speed rushers often. Comparing Monroe or anybody to JO isn't fair, because JO is probably the best LT of all time. Monroe isn't paid to be him or like him.

 

Hurst was too inconsistent as a rookie. He has potential certainly, but there were plenty of regular season games where he struggle heavily. The Atlanta game comes to mind.

 

I don't really care if Monroe is the best LT in the league or even top 5, because he's not paid as such and he doesn't need to be. LT is difficult enough because you mostly see the teams best rushers on a weekly basis. He holds up just fine, particularly for basically being not even paid like a top 10 LT.

[FLBoyRaven]

Sorry but our future is not decided upon no one player but Joe Cool, Sizzle, Doom, J. SMITH. Upshaw isnt even in on passing downs but hes one of if not to me the best run stopping 3-4 olb in the league. We have other guys to handle that Z. Zmith seems up to the task. For another note Yanda is the best G in the league but he is getting up there in age and I would love to Keep Kelechi, hes a smart young player who hasnt gotten much attention. I would rather keep him and plug John in. Or Re sign both and get rid of Monroe and let the Rt battle out for the lt spot. Lol

[hen826957]

There is a lot of opportunities that the o-line can be settle for next year here my options.

1) James Hurst, K.O. Urshal, Yanda, Wagner

2) Monroe, Urschal, Zutah, Yanda, Wagner

3) Monroe, K.O., Zutah, Urschal, Wagner

I love the 1st idea better because it makes us younger plus use the money on the 2 top guards unless Urchal can;t play center. Number 1 would be my choice but the 3rd would be a security blanket.

[bioLarzen]

Sign Yanda, Tucker, Hill, and tag Osemele? What's the hit on a tag for a guard?

 

 

$13M or more. Not an option.

 

Yep, no wonder O-linemen seldom get tags.

[rmcjacket23]

There is a lot of opportunities that the o-line can be settle for next year here my options. 1) James Hurst, K.O. Urshal, Yanda, Wagner 2) Monroe, Urschal, Zutah, Yanda, Wagner 3) Monroe, K.O., Zutah, Urschal, Wagner I love the 1st idea better because it makes us younger plus use the money on the 2 top guards unless Urchal can;t play center. Number 1 would be my choice but the 3rd would be a security blanket.

Not sure releasing Monroe after this season is a viable option. Would free up about $2M in cap space, but with $6.6M in dead money. I think Monroe when healthy is locked in as the starting LT for the next two seasons.

[Mr.Incredible]

Forsett is such a cool dude, I would love to meet him in person, not only can he play, but he's down to earth, religious, and he always knows the right thing to say. You just don't find them like that anymore. Need more like em'.

[Mr.Incredible]

Everybody seems to really like Trestman, and a lot of players will get to flourish in his new system, it seems to be working so far. Can't wait till they put on the pads, that's where we get to see who plays like a RAVEN!!!

[757RavensFan]

Urschel will take over for KO nicely

 

I see Urschel taking over for Zuttah.  The money saved for releasing Zuttah can go towards securing Yanda and/or KO. Hope we find a way to keep both. 

Edited June 6, 2015 by 757RavensFan

[PalmBayRaven]

We gave up a 4th & 5th round draft pick in last year's draft for Monroe. We also resigned him to a pretty decent contract. In my opinion he hasn't played up to it. He was high draft pick for Jacksonville then a couple years later they draft another left tackle and he is sitting on the bench. Why? Hence that is how we got him and few games after the trade Jacksonville's LT gets hurt. Yes he was upgrade at the time but I really do expect more from him than what I have seen thus far. I am very excited about our team this year and I hope Monroe does play well. He has never played in a playoff game and I hope he gets his chance.

[Ugly Ball]

I'm hoping Trestman's version of Kubiak's offense gets cranked up a couple notches.

With as much of an improvement as the offense was last year, at times it seamed to be missing just that little edge to get us over the top. I would really like to see a couple trick plays utilized. I believe that was the difference in the division round game against the Pats. Of course it can be argued that they used questionable plays that took advantage of the Referee's, but I didn't see that killer instinct in Kubiak, of putting your boot on the throat of the other team when it was most needed. Sometimes that little edge can be the difference in the win and the loss. It would be nice to see Trestman bring our Offense that little wrinkle. And wouldn't it be a statement to roll into Denver in week 1 and hand it to Elway/Kubiak/Manning for their season opener, in a fashion reminiscent of week 1, 2014..?