Best of the Division

[izvoodoo]

Boldin is better than mike wallace and holmes ever were. Heck one is about to be out of the league and the other already is.

 

Boldin and Mason were a class above sanders,holmes and wallace. 

Santonio Holmes had two major injuries... His body fell apart.  Before that the guy had great game.  Agreed about Wallace, but wallace does open things up for other players.

[3-4ravdef509]

flaccos had weapons.

aside from 2013..he's had plenty

I'm nominating this for wrongest statement of the year

[3-4ravdef509]

The best receiver trio we ever fielded was Boldin, Smith and Jones. Not coincidentally, we won the Superbowl that year.

But all three played at their absolute best, not their every week normal level.

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

Boldin is better than mike wallace and holmes ever were. Heck one is about to be out of the league and the other already is.

 

Boldin and Mason were a class above sanders,holmes and wallace. 

 

I've only read page 5 so far so I don't fully understand the entire context of the conversation but I'm guessing you're saying the 30 year old Boldin we had and the 34 year old Mason we had were better than those three.If that's the case you're dead wrong.Emanuel Sanders played like he-man last year,Holmes was turning into a star before he was forced to play with Sanchez in the back half of his career and Wallace is basically a better version of Torrey.As far as class goes,all of those guys are on the same second tier level.At their best their all really good number 2's IMO but I gotta give Wallace and Sanders the nod because their in their primes.

[beasy2487]

The best receiver trio we ever fielded was Boldin, Smith and Jones. Not coincidentally, we won the Superbowl that year.

 

Roll credits.

[ludy51]

Roll credits.

*Ding!*

[K-Dog]

LOL as using the Pro Bowl as a measure.

[codizzle]

I'm nominating this for wrongest statement of the year

2nd this

It's is now law

[Sami84]

I've only read page 5 so far so I don't fully understand the entire context of the conversation but I'm guessing you're saying the 30 year old Boldin we had and the 34 year old Mason we had were better than those three.If that's the case you're dead wrong.Emanuel Sanders played like he-man last year,Holmes was turning into a star before he was forced to play with Sanchez in the back half of his career and Wallace is basically a better version of Torrey.As far as class goes,all of those guys are on the same second tier level.At their best their all really good number 2's IMO but I gotta give Wallace and Sanders the nod because their in their primes.

 

emannuel sanders was average until peyton came to the fray

 

no..sorry buds…eye test tells me

 

Boldin and Mason are far superior players to those 3 i mentioned.

 

Boldin is so underrated still its ridiculous. So you would pick sanders and wallace over a 30 year old boldin?

 

glad you aren't a GM

Edited May 30, 2015 by Sami84

[Sami84]

lets see how the great julius thomas does ( boy what an overrated ^&*) without manning

 

sanders is just an average player made to look good by peyton. He barley cracked 700 yards since 2010.

 

mike wallace is a one trick pony

 

I'd pick last years steve smith..a 30 year old boldin and a 34 year old mason over them all

 

oh and aside from 2009 santonio was nothing more than solid.

 

 

Boldin and Mason have been 1000 yard receivers for most of their careers.

[757RavensFan]

Ben is better than Flacco... Idk how this is a debate, and I love me some Joe

Agreed.

[Ravenslifer]

The best receiver trio we ever fielded was Boldin, Smith and Jones. Not coincidentally, we won the Superbowl that year.

But all three played at their absolute best, not their every week normal level.

 

That was also, unfortunately, the last fully healthy year we had from Pitta.

[Rav'n Maniac]

lets see how the great julius thomas does ( boy what an overrated ^&*) without manning

 

sanders is just an average player made to look good by peyton. He barley cracked 700 yards since 2010.

 

mike wallace is a one trick pony

 

I'd pick last years steve smith..a 30 year old boldin and a 34 year old mason over them all

 

oh and aside from 2009 santonio was nothing more than solid.

 

 

Boldin and Mason have been 1000 yard receivers for most of their careers.

Sorry man, but Boldin never had 1000 yards here as he did many times with Arizona and both seasons in S.F. He averaged 83 catches with both those clubs while only compiling 62 avg. here over 3 years.

[harfordravenfan]

Crazy how our best receivers we've had were all possession receivers (for the most part) that always fought for the ball. So hoping we finally get a go to guy that has the speed to scare others and continue to help our guys working the underneath and the run.

[Sami84]

Sorry man, but Boldin never had 1000 yards here as he did many times with Arizona and both seasons in S.F. He averaged 83 catches with both those clubs while only compiling 62 avg. here over 3 years.

 

Is that boldins fault? he had 900 yards pretty much every year. and aside from that 1000 plus every other year.

[The Mom Gene]

Is that boldins fault? he had 900 yards pretty much every year. and aside from that 1000 plus every other year.

Neither of those teams had a run-first offense either.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

When you break it down to schemes and units the 'Division Best' takes-on new meaning.

 

2014 Stats:

Passing Offense - Steelers>Ravens>Browns>Bengals

Rushing Offense - Ravens>Steelers>Browns>Bengals

Kick/Punt Returns - Bengals>Ravens>Steelers>Browns

Kicking/Punting - Browns>Bengals>Steelers>Ravens

 

Passing Defense - Browns>Bengals>Ravens>Steelers

Rushing Defense - Ravens>Steelers>Bengals>Browns

Kick/Punt Returns Against - Browns>Steelers>Ravens>Bengals

Kicking/Punting Against - Ravens>Steelers>Bengals>Browns

 

Final AFCN 2014 Game - Ravens>Steelers

It's a team game, not individuals>then other individuals. Just saying.

 

edit - typo

Edited May 30, 2015 by jkm5bmore

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

I bet the same people who believe Joe isn't better than Roethlisberger are the same people who would give you a million down votes during the free agency period if you suggested trading for or signing a big name elite pass catcher.They're the same people who will cheer when we decide not to resign a WR like Torrey Smith for a measly 8 million a year.They're also probably the same people who were hoping we went cornerback in the first round of the draft.Yet they'll be the first to tell you who Flacco's not better than when he doesn't break 4,000 yards and 30 touchdowns.

Edited May 30, 2015 by HomeoftheBRAVENS

[Rav'n Maniac]

Is that boldins fault? he had 900 yards pretty much every year. and aside from that 1000 plus every other year.

It's not as much about the yards as it is the receptions he averaged. If he had the reception average of the other teams, the yards would have followed.

 

Neither of those teams had a run-first offense either.

Although this is true, it really doesn't come into play as much as we think it does. During the same period that Boldin was here, Joe averaged 520 attempts with 312 completions. Of course Boldin wasn't in on every passing play, but he was for the majority of them. It makes you wonder why he wasn't targeted more, considering Joe looked his way often. I feel it is because he just wasn't open in many of those situations.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Rav'n Maniac

[Sami84]

It's not as much about the yards as it is the receptions he averaged. If he had the reception average of the other teams, the yards would have followed.

 

Although this is true, it really doesn't come into play as much as you think it does. During the same period that Boldin was here, Joe averaged 520 attempts with 312 completions. Of course Boldin wasn't in on every passing play, but he was for the majority of them. It makes you wonder why he wasn't targeted more, considering Joe looked his way often. I feel it is because he just wasn't open in many of those situations.

 

joe only understood in the playoffs 

 

just throw to boldin ..even if he's covered.hes open

 

can't say the same with sanders wallace and co

 

 

lol..Derrick Mason is the most underrated WR in the past 17 years.

Edited May 30, 2015 by The Mom Gene
please, no namecalling.

[Rav'n Maniac]

joe only understood in the playoffs 

 

just throw to boldin ..even if he's covered.hes open

 

can't say the same with sanders wallace and co

 

 

lol..you guys are bonkers…Derrick Mason is the most underrated WR in the past 17 years.

First off, playoff stats are kept separate from season stats. No one is arguing how clutch Boldin was in the playoffs. And I'm "bonkers" when there's proof of what I stated. Not once did I mention anything about Mason.

[Sami84]

First off, playoff stats are kept separate from season stats. No one is arguing how clutch Boldin was in the playoffs. And I'm "bonkers" when there's proof of what I stated. Not once did I mention anything about Mason.

 

ok then

 

give Ben Boldin and Mason .

 

we have Wallace and Santonio.

 

What does your heart tell you?

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

ok then

 

give Ben Boldin and Mason .

 

we have Wallace and Santonio.

 

What does your heart tell you?

 

 

I got a better one for you.Give Flacco Brown,Bell,Bryant,Wheaton and Miller and give Roethlisberger Smitty,Perriman,Brown,Forsett and Williams.Which guy is your heart telling you would have the better year?

[Rav'n Maniac]

ok then

 

give Ben Boldin and Mason .

 

we have Wallace and Santonio.

 

What does your heart tell you?

Since you are asking, I feel Ben would have been awesome with Boldin & Mason, especially since I am a big fan of both receivers and hated to see both go. I have never been a fan of Wallace and Holmes and I believe we would have been less productive with those two here.

 

My only knock on Boldin, and it's not a big one, is that I feel he could have had better regular season production while he was here.

[ravensdan]

ok then

give Ben Boldin and Mason .

we have Wallace and Santonio.

What does your heart tell you?

In their prime for Flacco. Holmes and mason

[Sami84]

I got a better one for you.Give Flacco Brown,Bell,Bryant,Wheaton and Miller and give Roethlisberger Smitty,Perriman,Brown,Forsett and Williams.Which guy is your heart telling you would have the better year?

 

oh we are talking now?

 

Well yeah unless our draft picks pan out..obviously ben

[3-4ravdef509]

I'll concede this much... Ben is probably better still at this point but Flacco started from a lower point and has almost gotten to the point of being as good as Ben. To me Flacco is very capable of surpassing Ben in the next two years. Ben rather is who he is at this point. He came out good and got better but but near the rate at which Joe has gotten better. And Joe's path to this point has been a much harder one. To me, Joe is just better in a immeasurable way.

So which quarterback is better right now? End of the day, there's a good case to say it's Ben. But I'm taking Joe over him and every other quarterback in the league every Sunday. Even Rodgers. And Rodgers is clearly a better QB, I just feel like Joe is a perfect fit for Baltimore and Rodgers isn't. No one else is.

Edited May 30, 2015 by 3-4ravdef509

[Ravenslifer]

I'll concede this much... Ben is probably better still at this point but Flacco started from a lower point and has almost gotten to the point of being as good as Ben. To me Flacco is very capable of surpassing Ben in the next two years. Ben rather is who he is at this point. He came out good and got better but but near the rate at which Joe has gotten better. And Joe's path to this point has been a much harder one. To me, Joe is just better in a immeasurable way.

So which quarterback is better right now? End of the day, there's a good case to say it's Ben. But I'm taking Joe over him and every other quarterback in the league every Sunday. Even Rodgers. And Rodgers is clearly a better QB, I just feel like Joe is a perfect fit for Baltimore and Rodgers isn't. No one else is.

 

I think a major factor in terms of Joe's success vs. other players is not only how much talent has changed around them, but how much scheme has changed as well.  Joe is on his 4th offensive coordinator in the last 4 seasons, and only twice in his career has he had the same two starting wide receivers in consecutive seasons - Mason-Clayton 2008-2009, Smith-Boldin in 2011-2012.  Throw in the TEs and you can see that Joe's had to deal with a lot of major changes in a relatively short amount of time.  He's never had a receiver for more than 4 years.  Contrast that with other QBs - Roethlisberger has had Heath Miller for 10 years, he had Hines Ward for 9 years, he'll probably have Antonio Brown for a decade.  Brady had Welker for 5 years, Rodgers has had Nelson his whole career, Brees had Jimmy Graham for 6 years and has had Colston the entire time he's been in New Orleans.  Peyton Manning has never been on a team without one of Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, or Demayrius Thomas.  Not to mention between all of them I think they've changed OCs a grand total of 7 times in the entirety of their careers put together - Rodgers once, Brady twice, Roethlisberger twice, and Manning once his last year in Indy and once in Denver.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Ravenslifer

[Ravenslifer]

Sorry man, but Boldin never had 1000 yards here as he did many times with Arizona and both seasons in S.F. He averaged 83 catches with both those clubs while only compiling 62 avg. here over 3 years.

 

But how many targets did he have?  In the last 2 years in Frisco Q has been targeted 260 times.  He was targeted 328 times his 3 years in Baltimore, never more than 112 times a single season - so in a given year Q was being thrown to 20 more times a season in San Fran as compared to Baltimore.  Having more raw numbers doesn't mean he was "better" in Frisco - Colin Kaepernick literally did not throw to anyone else, including Vernon Davis.  In 2013 Q caught 85 passes - the second leading receiver, Davis, caught just 52 passes, and nobody else caught even 30 balls.  In 2012 here, we had 3 guys catch at least 60 passes, one guy catch 49, 2 guys catch 30.  Also, Q's played all 16 games the last 2 years in Frisco.  His last two years in Baltimore he finished with 920 yards while missing one game and 887 yards while missing 2 games.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Ravenslifer

[Rav'n Maniac]

Not trying to sarcastically rebut your post, just trying to explain my reasoning. With that said and using your per target numbers:

 

While in S.F. he was targeted on avg. 130 times in each 16 game season.

While in Bmore he was targeted on avg. 109 times each avg. 15 game season.

 

That's a difference of 21 targets more in S.F. which is 1.3 targets per game avg. Not that much more per season considering he averaged 15 games per season here.

 

In S.F. he caught an avg. of 83 per season on 130 avg. targets with a 63.8% avg. completion rate.

In Bmore he caught an avg. of 62 per season on 109 avg. targets with a 56.8 % avg. completion rate.

 

To me, he played better in S.F.

 

As far as the 3 missed games he had over 3 years here, no one can really say how he would have performed during those games for certain. He could have lit it up, crashed and burned or more than likely, just continued his averages. We can only attempt to figure it out based on his averages over the 15 game season. Using the above averages, over 16 week seasons he would end up with an avg. of 66 catches per season on 116 targets which is still 56.8% avg. completion rate.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Rav'n Maniac