Best of the Division

[Purple_City39]

Here's a better question...who has the best coaching in the division? We've got a damn fine coaching staff but so do other teams as well. It's not easily decided. I would say we have the best, but I can't say that without possible bias. 

Now this I don't even think is close.  It's Harbaugh without question and it has been since he matched Tomlin's ring in 2012.  Coaches are definitely judged on wins and John has a higher regular season win percentage while also having more playoff wins than the other three divisional coaches combined (although that's not saying much with Cleveland and Cincinnatti)

[CalvinSmoke]

We and Pittsburgh have some of the best coaching in the league. Cincinnati is right there, it's why our division is such a dog fight. And why we often win our match ups amongst the other divisions.

[VeiledPsychosis]

How about Josh Gordon? I think he could easily be the best wideout in the division if he ever played but we're talking pure playing ability here not playing time so i think Gordon should be on these lists

[VeiledPsychosis]

Here's a better question...who has the best coaching in the division? We've got a damn fine coaching staff but so do other teams as well. It's not easily decided. I would say we have the best, but I can't say that without possible bias. 

I have to say Harbaugh by quite a large margin. Marvin Lewis is good and all but those playoff appearances hurt him considering how long he's been there and plenty of times he's had really good teams overall. Its too early to even consider Pettine as better but he's doing a really good job so far, give him a QB and that Browns team is pretty scary. Tomlin has to be the closest but even Steelers fans are getting fed up with him and say most of his success comes from Cowher's left overs. That paired with the Steelers' past few years - lost in the first playoff game last year and 2 8-8 seasons before that - i think shows Harbaugh is the best in the division. And I'm still not over him stepping on the field (clearly on purpose - he's been a coach in the NFL since 2001 and somehow he doesn't know where to stand, and how convenient he forgot during a clear touchdown return...).

[VeiledPsychosis]

As far as coaching staffs go its hard to say, we've got a new offensive coordinator, steelers have a new defensive coordinator, Browns have a new offensive coordinator, and i don't have faith in the Bengals defensive coordinator at all. I think its a race between us and (surprisingly) the Browns, but i think pretty much making Shanahan go was a mistake (guy is directly responsible for making Hoyer a serviceable QB and the Browns a [brief] contender before their collapse). Since their new OC is an unknown I'm going to give it to us for now

[3-4ravdef509]

I think Harbs and company company pretty much sweep the competition.

[Tenacious Faulker]

These best of discussions are always fun to have this time of year.  Here's my take for each position.  What's your two cents?

 

QB:  1. Joe Flacco  2. Ben Roethlesberger  3. Andy Dalton

Back up QB:  Bruce Gradkowski  2. Matt Schaub  3. Terrelle Pryor

RB:  1. LeVeon Bell  2. Jeremy Hill  3. Justin Forsett

WR:  1. AJ Green  2. Antonio Brown  3. Steve Smith

LT:  1. Andrew Whitworth  2. Joe Thomas  3. Kelvin Beachum

RT:  1. Rick Wagner  2. Marcus Gilbert  3. Andre Smith

LG:  1. kelechi Osemele  2. Joel Bitonio  3. Clint Boling

RG:  1. Marshal Yanda  2. Kevin Zeitler  3. David DeCastro

C:  1. Alex Mack  2. Maurkice Pouncey  3. Jeremy Zuttah

 

FS:  1. Reggie Nelson  2. Tashaun Gipson  3. Mike Mitchell

SS:  1. Will Hill  2. George Iloka  3. Will Allen (At least he's been good at some point in his career)

CB:  1. Jimmy Smith  2. Joe Haden  3. Pacman Jones

ILB:  1. Lawrence Timmons  2. Daryl Smith  3. CJ Mosley

Edge:  1. Terrell Suggs  2. Elvis Dummervil  3. Carlos Dunlap

IDL:  1. Geno Atkins  2. Cameron Heyward  3. Randy Starks

 

Wow, the secondary play in the entire division is really bad.  Defensive and offensive line is the deepest for the division.  No surprise there.  

QB:  Big Ben is still the best in the division and their offense is set up for him to succeed.  Flacco will close the gap and it's possible he surpasses him, but not as likely imo but we won't need him to be the best in the AFCN to win it.

QB b/u:  Schaub is the best here.  Should all startig QBs go down at once, I think he's the best of the lot and will be in a familar scheme.  His 2013 pick-6 streak was an aberation in his career.

RB:  Bell is the man.  Hill could compete and Forsett will have an OC that values bigger one-cut backs rather than speedy and shifty so he may see fewer snaps.

WR:  Brown has turned into a Jack of all Trades and Master of ALL as well.  Smith still has it, but is ball dropper (always has been).  Green could make up the difference and surpass Brown in yards in long catches, but is not as developed all around imo.  HOWEVER, do not discount the rapid rise of one or both of our rookies - Perriman or Waller.  One or both WILL be a developing storyline this season.

LT - Whitworth hands down.  I'm surprised that Beachum was listed over Monroe though who I think is 3rd best of the AFCN.

RT - Wagner hands down.  His growth from rookie season to sophomore was great. With that type of work ethic and ability, that trend will continue.

LG - K.O. is in contract year and has been the best so far. Bitonio showed he's worthy of consideration and could challenge.

RG - Yanda.  Nuf sed.

C - Alex Mack.  Nuf sed

 

FS - I want to say Nelson, BUT I'm going with Gipson.  Nelson has been great, but Gipson is just starting out and has a Pro Bowl while Nelson is still looking for his first.  Mitchell is physical with good awareness but commits to many dumb penalties - still raw and out of control.  

SS - You didn't list Browns Donte Whtner and that who it is.  Iloka will be a close 2nd with Hill challenging in a close race.

CB - Jimmy Smith, but Dre Kirpatrick deserves mention here.  He's who I think will challenge Jimmy as the AFCN's best. 

ILB - Mosely is the best.  Ray Lewis incarnate.  As good as any in the game today Wagner, Kuechley, Mayo, etc. Burfict would be in the mix, but is a grimey, ankle twisting player.

OLB - Suggs or Dume.  Take your pick.  Dunlap is great too and has the ability to change that, but when you have players of Suggs and Dume opposite each other, then they automatically are better.  Suugs taking on doubles last year allowed Dume to be the teams sack master.  Also, don't overlook Bud Dupree.  He has game chamging qualities and the Steelers are desperate enough to break with tradition to start a rookie.  Follow him in the offseason.

IDL - Atkins here, BUT don't discount Brandon Williams who looked very Ngata-like last year when Haloti was suspended 4 games.  In his 3rd seasson now, there's no reason to think he can't do that all season long.  Jernigan is also better than those other players.

 

Why not list special teams? - kicker, punter, KR/PR?  

[Sami84]

QB:  Big Ben is still the best in the division and their offense is set up for him to succeed.  Flacco will close the gap and it's possible he surpasses him, but not as likely imo but we won't need him to be the best in the AFCN to win it.

QB b/u:  Schaub is the best here.  Should all startig QBs go down at once, I think he's the best of the lot and will be in a familar scheme.  His 2013 pick-6 streak was an aberation in his career.

RB:  Bell is the man.  Hill could compete and Forsett will have an OC that values bigger one-cut backs rather than speedy and shifty so he may see fewer snaps.

WR:  Brown has turned into a Jack of all Trades and Master of ALL as well.  Smith still has it, but is ball dropper (always has been).  Green could make up the difference and surpass Brown in yards in long catches, but is not as developed all around imo.  HOWEVER, do not discount the rapid rise of one or both of our rookies - Perriman or Waller.  One or both WILL be a developing storyline this season.

LT - Whitworth hands down.  I'm surprised that Beachum was listed over Monroe though who I think is 3rd best of the AFCN.

RT - Wagner hands down.  His growth from rookie season to sophomore was great. With that type of work ethic and ability, that trend will continue.

LG - K.O. is in contract year and has been the best so far. Bitonio showed he's worthy of consideration and could challenge.

RG - Yanda.  Nuf sed.

C - Alex Mack.  Nuf sed

 

FS - I want to say Nelson, BUT I'm going with Gipson.  Nelson has been great, but Gipson is just starting out and has a Pro Bowl while Nelson is still looking for his first.  Mitchell is physical with good awareness but commits to many dumb penalties - still raw and out of control.  

SS - You didn't list Browns Donte Whtner and that who it is.  Iloka will be a close 2nd with Hill challenging in a close race.

CB - Jimmy Smith, but Dre Kirpatrick deserves mention here.  He's who I think will challenge Jimmy as the AFCN's best. 

ILB - Mosely is the best.  Ray Lewis incarnate.  As good as any in the game today Wagner, Kuechley, Mayo, etc. Burfict would be in the mix, but is a grimey, ankle twisting player.

OLB - Suggs or Dume.  Take your pick.  Dunlap is great too and has the ability to change that, but when you have players of Suggs and Dume opposite each other, then they automatically are better.  Suugs taking on doubles last year allowed Dume to be the teams sack master.  Also, don't overlook Bud Dupree.  He has game chamging qualities and the Steelers are desperate enough to break with tradition to start a rookie.  Follow him in the offseason.

IDL - Atkins here, BUT don't discount Brandon Williams who looked very Ngata-like last year when Haloti was suspended 4 games.  In his 3rd seasson now, there's no reason to think he can't do that all season long.  Jernigan is also better than those other players.

 

Why not list special teams? - kicker, punter, KR/PR?  

 

Will Hill >  any other safety in AFC north. Also, Geno Atkins doesn't look the same. He's lost his burst which is what helped him get sacks.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Sami84

[redrum52]

Here's a better question...who has the best coaching in the division? We've got a damn fine coaching staff but so do other teams as well. It's not easily decided. I would say we have the best, but I can't say that without possible bias.

I think it was 2 years ago I would've said the Browns. That staff was perfect, sans the HC. Norv and Horton. I would've killed for that staff... literally. But I like the moves we've made and despite the Pees hate, I think with the additions to the defense, if guys stay healthy, you stop hearing Pees name like we did Juan's.

And I'd take Ben over Flacco. But that playoff Flacco...

Edited May 29, 2015 by redrum52

[Tenacious Faulker]

Will Hill >  any other safety in AFC north. Also, Geno Atkins doesn't look the same. He's lost his burst which is what helped him get sacks.

You mean "> any other STRONG safety" right?  You could make a case for that, but he's only played FS in the AFCN so far so I still stand by Whitner.  Hill was great for us, but I think that the safety position in the AFCN has lost tremendous respect on field without Reed and Polamalu.  

 

last year Atkins hadn't yet recovered fully from his 2013 ACL injury.  It's harder for a 310 pound man than it is for say Adrian Peterson or RG3.  He's still 27 with 3 Pro Bowls to his credit so he should get back to form this season.  If not then Brandon Williams is my next best and he's only getting better.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Tenacious Faulker

[ratedr]

Big Ben hasn't done jack in the postseason since he lost his elite defense. Gimme Flacco.

[Sami84]

You mean "> any other STRONG safety" right?  You could make a case for that, but he's only played FS in the AFCN so far so I still stand by Whitner.  Hill was great for us, but I think that the safety position in the AFCN has lost tremendous respect on field without Reed and Polamalu.  

 

last year Atkins hadn't yet recovered fully from his 2013 ACL injury.  It's harder for a 310 pound man than it is for say Adrian Peterson or RG3.  He's still 27 with 3 Pro Bowls to his credit so he should get back to form this season.  If not then Brandon Williams is my next best and he's only getting better.

nope..i said ANY safety. Strong or Free. 

[Tenacious Faulker]

nope..i said ANY safety. Strong or Free. 

That's a bod statement.  I want to agree, but that's a tall order seeing as there are newer safeties in the division and he's switched from a pass defender to an in the box safety.  

[beanfigger]

That's a bod statement. I want to agree, but that's a tall order seeing as there are newer safeties in the division and he's switched from a pass defender to an in the box safety.

I don't want to quote your big, long post about all the positions, but I want to make one comment. In regards to LT, you said "Whitworth hands down", but I really think there's a dude in Cleveland who is probably the best even without any hands.

[BmoreBird22]

I don't want to quote your big, long post about all the positions, but I want to make one comment. In regards to LT, you said "Whitworth hands down", but I really think there's a dude in Cleveland who is probably the best even without any hands.

Probably the best technician at the position

[Static]

Sorry but until Flacco gets the Weapons that Big Ben has had, I won't say Ben is better.

[Sami84]

Sorry but until Flacco gets the Weapons that Big Ben has had, I won't say Ben is better.

 

flaccos had weapons.

 

aside from 2013..he's had plenty

[ludy51]

flaccos had weapons.

aside from 2013..he's had plenty

Yeah like...um....uh..hmmmmmm...

[GrimCoconut]

flaccos had weapons.

aside from 2013..he's had plenty

His weapons were Heap, McGahee, Clayton, Rice, Pitta, Dickson, Mason, Boldin, Torrey, Forsett, Daniels, Smith Sr

Those have been his weapons since 2008. Not a great list at all, sorry.

Edited May 30, 2015 by GrimCoconut

[Sami84]

Yeah like...um....uh..hmmmmmm...

 

Anquan Boldin

Derrick Mason

Todd Heap

Dennis Pitta

Torrey Smith

Steve Smith Sr

 

vs

 

Santonio Holmes

Mike Wallace

Heath Miller

Antonio Brown

Hines Ward

Emmanuel Sanders

pretty similar if you ask me. 

Edited May 30, 2015 by Sami84

[Static]

Anquan Boldin

Derrick Mason

Todd Heap

Dennis Pitta

Torrey Smith

Steve Smith Sr

 

vs

 

Santonio Holmes

Mike Wallace

Heath Miller

Antonio Brown

Hines Ward

Emmanuel Sanders

pretty similar if you ask me. 

 

Ravens - 2 pro bowl seasons from Todd Heap, NEITHER Being with Joe Flacco.

 

 

Steelers.- Mike wallace -Pro Bowl

                 Heath Miller 2 pro bowls

                 Antonio Brown - 3 Pro Bowls, 1 All- Pro

                 Hines Ward - 4 Pro Bowls , 2x 2nd team All-Pro

                     

 

 

Stop it right now.

[Sami84]

Ravens - 2 pro bowl seasons from Todd Heap, NEITHER Being with Joe Flacco.

 

 

Steelers.- Mike wallace -Pro Bowl

                 Heath Miller 2 pro bowls

                 Antonio Brown - 3 Pro Bowls, 1 All- Pro

                 Hines Ward - 4 Pro Bowls , 2x 2nd team All-Pro

                     

 

 

Stop it right now.

 

Boldin is a 4 time pro bowler

Steve Smith 6 time pro bowler

Heap should have been more than two time. Also in 2009 he was great for us. Heap was in my eyes a 4 time pro bowler. 2002-2003 2006 and 2009

Derrick Mason was a two time pro bowler too

[Static]

Boldin is a 4 time pro bowler

Steve Smith 6 time pro bowler

Heap should have been more than two time. Also in 2009 he was great for us. Heap was in my eyes a 4 time pro bowler. 2002-2003 2006 and 2009

Derrick Mason was a two time pro bowler too

 

And none of those times were with the Ravens! The Ravens have never sent a WR to the pro bowl and Joe Flacco has never had a receiving target go the pro bowl. Thats ridiculous. 

[GrimCoconut]

Yeah we had old man Heap, Mason for three years, Boldin for the same, Pitta until he broke a hip, Torrey and Smith Sr at the end of his career. That's hardly a star group. If anything it's more of a group of bandaids.

Holmes, Brown, Wallace, Sanders and Miller are all young guys who provided youth to the team when they came. Yes, they all succeed Ben. Ben was drafted in 2004. Miller is the oldest of the group since he was drafted in 2005. Ward was the only bandaid Ben had.

[Sami84]

age is overrated..derrick mason and boldin were ballers and better than wallace and holmes

[flynismo]

Anquan Boldin

Derrick Mason

Todd Heap

Dennis Pitta

Torrey Smith

Steve Smith Sr

vs

Santonio Holmes

Mike Wallace

Heath Miller

Antonio Brown

Hines Ward

Emmanuel Sanders

pretty similar if you ask me.

Not similar when you consider Boldin, Mason and S Smith weren't exactly in their primes. The only WR that Flacco has had that weren't in their mid 30s all sucked, except for Torrey... and Torrey is a "Number 2" on most teams

[GrimCoconut]

Boldin is a 4 time pro bowler

Steve Smith 6 time pro bowler

Heap should have been more than two time. Also in 2009 he was great for us. Heap was in my eyes a 4 time pro bowler. 2002-2003 2006 and 2009

Derrick Mason was a two time pro bowler too

It doesn't matter when they were Pro Bowlers. What matters is they weren't that player for the Ravens. They all played well but I can't say any deserved a trip to the Pro Bowl. I think you're purposely ignoring facts if you don't recognize that and biased and will simply disregard your opinion entirely if you choose to not accept this.

I find it amusing you talk about how Ozzie lost it and doesn't have the touch and get also defense the players Flacco had compared to others. You can't support both arguments in the manner you argue them.

[GrimCoconut]

age is overrated..derrick mason and boldin were ballers and better than wallace and holmes

No it's not. I think the issues of the past may be too distant for you. I recall a time when we struggled because our WR weren't fast enough. Part of that was due to age.

[Sami84]

It doesn't matter when they were Pro Bowlers. What matters is they weren't that player for the Ravens. They all played well but I can't say any deserved a trip to the Pro Bowl. I think you're purposely ignoring facts if you don't recognize that and biased and will simply disregard your opinion entirely if you choose to not accept this.

I find it amusing you talk about how Ozzie lost it and doesn't have the touch and get also defense the players Flacco had compared to others. You can't support both arguments in the manner you argue them.

 

actually Heap and Mason did deserve to go to the pro bowl while with us at certain points.

[Sami84]

Boldin is better than mike wallace and holmes ever were. Heck one is about to be out of the league and the other already is.

 

Boldin and Mason were a class above sanders,holmes and wallace.