Best of the Division

[ravensdan]

These best of discussions are always fun to have this time of year.  Here's my take for each position.  What's your two cents?

 

QB:  1. Joe Flacco  2. Ben Roethlesberger  3. Andy Dalton

Back up QB:  Bruce Gradkowski  2. Matt Schaub  3. Terrelle Pryor

RB:  1. LeVeon Bell  2. Jeremy Hill  3. Justin Forsett

WR:  1. AJ Green  2. Antonio Brown  3. Steve Smith

LT:  1. Andrew Whitworth  2. Joe Thomas  3. Kelvin Beachum

RT:  1. Rick Wagner  2. Marcus Gilbert  3. Andre Smith

LG:  1. kelechi Osemele  2. Joel Bitonio  3. Clint Boling

RG:  1. Marshal Yanda  2. Kevin Zeitler  3. David DeCastro

C:  1. Alex Mack  2. Maurkice Pouncey  3. Jeremy Zuttah

 

FS:  1. Reggie Nelson  2. Tashaun Gipson  3. Mike Mitchell

SS:  1. Will Hill  2. George Iloka  3. Will Allen (At least he's been good at some point in his career)

CB:  1. Jimmy Smith  2. Joe Haden  3. Pacman Jones

ILB:  1. Lawrence Timmons  2. Daryl Smith  3. CJ Mosley

Edge:  1. Terrell Suggs  2. Elvis Dummervil  3. Carlos Dunlap

IDL:  1. Geno Atkins  2. Cameron Heyward  3. Randy Starks

 

Wow, the secondary play in the entire division is really bad.  Defensive and offensive line is the deepest for the division.  No surprise there.  

[Challenge Accepted]

Big ben > Flacco

Gipson > Nelson

Leon Hall > Pacman Jones

[ravensdan]

Big ben > Flacco

Gipson > Nelson

Leon Hall > Pacman Jones

I think Flaccos durability puts him over Ben. Hard choice though. The safeties were difficult. Hill and Nelson could go under either role really. But I think Nekson has proven to be better and play at a very high level over time ahead of Gipson. I think Jones has played better than Hall.

[Inqui]

Wow, the secondary play in the entire division is really bad.  Defensive and offensive line is the deepest for the division.  No surprise there.  

I said a few months back that terrible secondaries is just as much a calling card in the division as the "hard-nosed, blue collar" mentality. I wonder how a team like that would stack up against other divisions.

[ravensdan]

I said a few months back that terrible secondaries is just as much a calling card in the division as the "hard-nosed, blue collar" mentality. I wonder how a team like that would stack up against other divisions.

That would be fun to do all the divisions and then have them "play off" and see which one is the best.

[Gordo52]

QB: J. Flacco (by a hair and personal preference)

RB: L. Bell

FB: Juice

TE: H. Miller

WR: A. Brown

WR: AJ Green

LT: Thomas

LG: K.O.

C: Mack

RG: M. Yanda

RT: R. Wagner

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

I just think we play in the toughest division in the NFL just my opinion. Not many teams play smashmouth football but in the AFC north all 4 teams play smashmouth football.  No game is a gimme game in the AFC north. I dislike the Steelers, Bengals and Browns but I like the fighting spirit they all bring out of the Ravens players and coaches. It is always physical. I wont rank the players because I am very biased and proud  towards the Ravens and their players but I know the Steelers, Bengals and Browns have plenty of tallent.

Edited May 27, 2015 by ALSKAN RAVEN FAN

[GrimCoconut]

QB: Joe Flacco >= Ben Roethlesberger, Andy Dalton >= Matt Schaub > Bruce Gradkowski

RB: LeVeon Bell > Jeremy Hill > Justin Forsett == Gio Bernard

FB: Kyle Juszczyk > Will Johnson > Ryan Hewitt

TE: Heath Miller > Dennis Pitta > Tyler Eifert

WR: Antonio Brown >= AJ Green > Steve Smith 

LT: Joe Thomas > Andrew Whitworth > Kelvin Beachum

LG: Kelechi Osemele >= Joel Bitonio > Clint Boling

C: Alex Mack > Maurkice Pouncey > Jeremy Zuttah

RG: Marshal Yanda >> Kevin Zeitler >= David DeCastro

RT: Rick Wagner > Andre Smith > Marcus  Gilbert

 

DL: Geno Atkins >= Cameron Heyward > Brandon Williams

EDGE: Terrell Suggs > Elvis Dumervil > Carlos Dunlap 

LB: Lawrence Timmons > Daryl Smith >= CJ Mosley

CB: Jimmy Smith > Joe Haden >= Pacman Jones

SS: Will Hill > George Iloka > Donte Whitner < Matt Elam (haha, had to do it)

FS: Tashau Gipson > Reggie Nelson >= Kendrick Lewis

Edited May 27, 2015 by GrimCoconut

[Sami84]

sigh…lets get real..Ben is better than flacco and always has been..doesnt mean flacco can't  beat him..hes just not as good.

[Sami84]

also..geno atkins looked done to me last year. 

[ludy51]

sigh…lets get real..Ben is better than flacco and always has been..doesnt mean flacco can't beat him..hes just not as good.

I thought you said we were being real

[stampedehero]

These best of discussions are always fun to have this time of year.  Here's my take for each position.  What's your two cents?

 

QB:  1. Joe Flacco  2. Ben Roethlesberger  3. Andy Dalton

Back up QB:  Bruce Gradkowski  2. Matt Schaub  3. Terrelle Pryor

RB:  1. LeVeon Bell  2. Jeremy Hill  3. Justin Forsett

WR:  1. AJ Green  2. Antonio Brown  3. Steve Smith

LT:  1. Andrew Whitworth  2. Joe Thomas  3. Kelvin Beachum

RT:  1. Rick Wagner  2. Marcus Gilbert  3. Andre Smith

LG:  1. kelechi Osemele  2. Joel Bitonio  3. Clint Boling

RG:  1. Marshal Yanda  2. Kevin Zeitler  3. David DeCastro

C:  1. Alex Mack  2. Maurkice Pouncey  3. Jeremy Zuttah

 

FS:  1. Reggie Nelson  2. Tashaun Gipson  3. Mike Mitchell

SS:  1. Will Hill  2. George Iloka  3. Will Allen (At least he's been good at some point in his career)

CB:  1. Jimmy Smith  2. Joe Haden  3. Pacman Jones

ILB:  1. Lawrence Timmons  2. Daryl Smith  3. CJ Mosley

Edge:  1. Terrell Suggs  2. Elvis Dummervil  3. Carlos Dunlap

IDL:  1. Geno Atkins  2. Cameron Heyward  3. Randy Starks

 

Wow, the secondary play in the entire division is really bad.  Defensive and offensive line is the deepest for the division.  No surprise there.  

OOPS  Need TE and FB          Miller, Gresham and Pitta (based on lack of games played merits 3rd place)  Of Course the one and only Juice   

[beanfigger]

QB: J. Flacco (by a hair and personal preference)

RB: L. Bell

FB: Juice

TE: H. Miller

WR: A. Brown

WR: AJ Green

LT: Thomas

LG: K.O.

C: Mack

RG: M. Yanda

RT: R. Wagner

Holy amazing offense! Career years all around!

[sflegend89]

AB > AJ Green

 

Kendrick Lewis > Mike Mitchell

 

CJ Mosley > Every ILB in the NFL not named Keuchly, Bowman, or Wagner

[CalvinSmoke]

Ben is better than Flacco... Idk how this is a debate, and I love me some Joe

[ravensdan]

AB > AJ Green

Kendrick Lewis > Mike Mitchell

CJ Mosley > Every ILB in the NFL not named Keuchly, Bowman, or Wagner

Aj is a better all around player than brown. Brown has a far superior qb. I don't know how you could put Mosley over timmins and Smith. They are both better in coverage.

[GrimCoconut]

Ben is better than Flacco... Idk how this is a debate, and I love me some Joe

I think the margin of difference is far smaller than perceived. I take Flacco because he's younger and I think Trestman will make him look really good.

[GrimCoconut]

Aj is a better all around player than brown. Brown has a far superior qb. I don't know how you could put Mosley over timmins and Smith. They are both better in coverage.

I think we're talking two really great WR in Brown and Green. With that said. I give the edge to Brown because I think he's a significantly better route runner than Green. I also like his hands better than Green. We're talking minor differences here, however, since they're both top 5 players at their position imo.

[3-4ravdef509]

Can someone give me an argument other than his two rings as to why Ben is better than Joe?

I don't see it as a easy thing to say one is better than the other. Joe is a better pure passer. Ben is the better improviser. Both are leaders of their teams and are franchise quarterbacks. Joe's more durable, Ben has had some seasons with flashier numbers. To me it's close to a wash. I prefer Joe at this point as he's younger.

[52520Andrew]

If I want to keep them for the next 10 years the obvious choice is Flacco but if it is just for next season, I'll take Big Ben.

[January J]

 

QB: Joe Flacco >= Ben Roethlesberger, Andy Dalton >= Matt Schaub > Bruce Gradkowski

RB: LeVeon Bell > Jeremy Hill > Justin Forsett == Gio Bernard

FB: Kyle Juszczyk > Will Johnson > Ryan Hewitt

TE: Heath Miller > Dennis Pitta > Tyler Eifert

WR: Antonio Brown >= AJ Green > Steve Smith 

LT: Joe Thomas > Andrew Whitworth > Kelvin Beachum

LG: Kelechi Osemele >= Joel Bitonio > Clint Boling

C: Alex Mack > Maurkice Pouncey > Jeremy Zuttah

RG: Marshal Yanda >> Kevin Zeitler >= David DeCastro

RT: Rick Wagner > Andre Smith > Marcus  Gilbert

 

DL: Geno Atkins >= Cameron Heyward > Brandon Williams

EDGE: Terrell Suggs > Elvis Dumervil > Carlos Dunlap 

LB: Lawrence Timmons > Daryl Smith >= CJ Mosley

CB: Jimmy Smith > Joe Haden >= Pacman Jones

SS: Will Hill > George Iloka > Donte Whitner < Matt Elam (haha, had to do it)

FS: Tashau Gipson > Reggie Nelson >= Kendrick Lewis

 

i see what you did there with yanda. lol he def deserved the 2 >>

[sflegend89]

Aj is a better all around player than brown. Brown has a far superior qb. I don't know how you could put Mosley over timmins and Smith. They are both better in coverage.

 

I can respect someone taking Green but did you watch AB last year? lol.  The guy was arguably the best WR in the entire NFL! Up until last year I would agree with you but AB took his game to a whole other level. The QB argument is valid but tough to account for, if you told me you can have AJ Green or AB on your team I'm taking Brown.

 

I put CJ over Daryl at this point in his career, not only did CJ flash more on film as the playmaker at LB but he trumped Daryl in every single statistical category as a ROOKIE. When you put the game tape together with the stats it's all CJ and he's only going to get better. Timmons is a tough call, CJ did have the slightly better stats last year and I'm also accounting for the fact that CJ was a rookie which gives him the slight edge for me. It's a narrow margin but when you look at where CJ projects heading into next year the arrow is pointing up and Timmons has plateaued.

 

Again, a good way to look at it is who would you rather have heading into the 2015 season? CJ who lit it up as a rookie or Timmons who may or may not be able to play at the level he did last year which was around the same as CJ as a rookie? I have a very hard time believing CJ won't improve even more in his second year so I have to take him. These are some pretty narrow margins though, I can't fault you for your opinion on these comparisons because you can make arguments going either way.

[Ravens4Real]

You put Big Ben over Flacco simply because he has down way more in the regular season and has two rings.

Flacco has been just about average in the regular season. Big Ben just tied Brees for the passing title this past year. If he stays healthy, he has another 3-4 years of production considering his oldest WR is Antonio Brown at 26 years old.

Obviously, many of you will bring up how Flacco is better in the playoffs. I believe I read a stat that showed Big Ben and Flacco have the same record in the playoffs. With all things equal, Big Ben gets the nod becaus of rings. If the argument is for this coming year, I still think he wins because they have a great offense.

I understand the arguments also that their defense may have won them a super bowl and that Flacco doesn't have the weapons and all the other ways to knock down this argument. Just saying that, if it wasn't for our defense a couple times the past years, we wouldn't even had made the playoffs in some of them.

I also took into account that Big Ben is 2 years and 10 months older than Flacco. But I simply can't add in potential future numbers that have not happened.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Ravens4Real

[Cville-Raven]

I would take Antonio Brown everyday of the week of over Green.

[Gordo52]

Ben is better than Flacco... Idk how this is a debate, and I love me some Joe

I rather have a Iron man QB...especially when compared to Ben who seems to always be hurting...It's close though.

[Militant X 1]

Can someone give me an argument other than his two rings as to why Ben is better than Joe?

I don't see it as a easy thing to say one is better than the other. Joe is a better pure passer. Ben is the better improviser. Both are leaders of their teams and are franchise quarterbacks. Joe's more durable, Ben has had some seasons with flashier numbers. To me it's close to a wash. I prefer Joe at this point as he's younger.

 

You have to give a reason for Joe being better than Ben other than his durability. 

 

It all comes down to personal preferences I guess. 

[3-4ravdef509]

You have to give a reason for Joe being better than Ben other than his durability. 

 

It all comes down to personal preferences I guess. 

 

I didn't say Joe IS better, I said you can't really say either one is largely better than the other.

 

Pure Pocket Passing - Edge Flacco. I think Flacco is better about going through reads, and can make more throws from the pocket than Ben can.

 

On the Run - Ben obviously.

 

Broken Plays - Joe's not bad on broken plays, but Ben gets the edge here again.

 

Ball Protection - I think they're more or less equal, but I tend to think Ben is a tad more likely to throw some of those face palm passes that get picked. Last year and in 2012, Joe showed real sound decision making for the most part, taking appropriate risks but not usually just throwing the ball up there. 2013 was a blip due to the entire offense struggling and Joe just trying to make things happen.

 

Game managing. I give Flacco the edge here.

 

Clutch Factor. Both are very good in the clutch, but Ben has a GWD in the Superbowl, so that's hard to beat out.

 

Durability - Flacco and it's not even close.

 

Leadership. I think Flacco is a great leader, but I think Ben holds more sway in Pittsburgh as he's the only main guy, where as Joe shares the spotlight as the face of the franchise.

 

So in 8 categories, they split down the middle who has the edge. So based on which categories you weigh as more important, and how wide you gauge the discrepancies between them in the various categories, to me it's less of a "This guy is better period," thing and more of a "I'd prefer this guy for my team." For me, while Ben might hold a slight edge in a majority of skill categories, his lack of durability and the fact that Flacco is younger make me say that RIGHT NOW I'd say Joe is the better quarterback if you were deciding which one you wanted. 

 

But then again, as you said, it's really just personal preference as well.

Edited May 27, 2015 by 3-4ravdef509

[CalvinSmoke]

I'm sorry but Ben is a potential hall of famer. He wouldn't have to improvise so much if his line, especially the right side, could protect him better. I think Flacco and Romo are a better comparison but the best of the best is Brees, Brady, Rodgers, and Big Ben. Put who ever you want at 5 but I'm not about to disrespect Ben right now. Torrey Smith would have looked like Mike Wallace in Pittsburgh

Edited May 27, 2015 by CalvinSmoke

[3-4ravdef509]

I'm sorry but Ben is a potential hall of famer. He wouldn't have to improvise so much if his line, especially the right side, could protect him better. I think Flacco and Romo are a better comparison but the best of the best is Brees, Brady, Rodgers, and Big Ben. Put who ever you want at 5 but I'm not about to disrespect Ben right now. Torrey Smith would have looked like Mike Wallace in Pittsburgh

 

Keyword being potential. And in a few years Joe could easily be considered a potential HOFer. It's not like Ben puts up crazy stats. I think he's had 1 maybe 2 really good years and a few average and a bunch of subpar ones where he missed a lot of games and/or the defense carried him. With one more ring Joe's career is pretty much on par with Ben's. 

 

Torrey would be Torrey anywhere he went. 

 

Ben's line hasn't always been good but he's often had much better weapons and also a great defense many years. Also Ben has never really shown the ability to consistently read and pick apart defense's from the pocket when his line does play good. He usually plays better when he has to make something happen.

[3-4ravdef509]

I'm sorry but Ben is a potential hall of famer. He wouldn't have to improvise so much if his line, especially the right side, could protect him better. I think Flacco and Romo are a better comparison but the best of the best is Brees, Brady, Rodgers, and Big Ben. Put who ever you want at 5 but I'm not about to disrespect Ben right now. Torrey Smith would have looked like Mike Wallace in Pittsburgh

 

I'm sorry, the torrey comment deserves more attention. Torrey Smith did some great things here, but also a lot of bad. For every time Joe missed him on a deep throw, there were more that Torrey dropped/ran the wrong route/ran the route wrong/didn't play the ball. He was a mediocre route runner. He was great after the catch and good against zone, but usually against tight man coverage he's disappear except for the occasional splash play where he's actually show some grittiness and get open or play the ball aggressively. Big Ben wouldn't not have made Torrey a better receiver. Thats just ludicrous.