[News] Late For Work 5/20: Ravens Still Thin At Two Positions

[balfan23]

The statement of where we are thin is just evidence that there is no way to build a complete and deep team in the cap environment. To make it all the way, you need a great organization to build a well rounded team AND have a little luck - which includes player health.

 

Given that the Pats and Ravens have been among the top teams in the AFC over the past 5 years or so, it feels like the difference has been health. When we won the Super Bowl, we were pretty fortunate on the injury front (that we got Suggs and Ray back just in time) and they had lost Gronk. This past year, they had Gronk back, our secondary was decimated and we know the result.

 

We can try to acquire some additional depth, but the fact is, if Jimmy or Suggs were to go down (and you may want to add Dumervil and Webb in there too) ... it will dramatically hurt our chances of being a Super Bowl Champ. If we can stay healthy, we're contenders. 

[RavensBaltimore]

1. I'm comparing the two after 3 years because we can't compare them after 5... Tannehill hasn't played five. The Dolphins decided to extend him after 3. Had the Ravens done the same thing, something tells me Joe would have been getting a very similar contract to what Tannehill has now, perhaps slightly larger.

 

2. After Joe's first three years, there was precisely ZERO people that ever watched him play that thought he could then make all the throws at an elite level, because there was simply no visible evidence that he could. We knew he had a big arm, and that he was fairly accurate with it. Again, the only reason we can say that NOW is because he's got 3 years longer in the league than Tannehill does, and we've seen him grow into that kind of player.

Flacco has been making routine throws that other qb's wouldn't even consider trying since his rookie year. He didn't get many attempts in Cam's run heavy offense, but he did show the arm strength and accuracy to complete passes with a high degree of difficulty. He never had a deep threat in his first 3 years, but Tannehill has had Mike Wallace, and we've seen he can't take advantage of that. There's no reason to believe that's suddenly going to change.  Flacco had some mental growing pains, as all rookie qbs do, but he NEVER showed any limitations of physical ability. The article compares Flacco's contract(after 5 years) to Tannehill's(after 3 years), so comparing them both after 3 years isn't relevant anyway. Just because we've seen Flacco take huge steps in years 3 and 4(which I think was mostly due to coaching and personell changes) doesn't mean Tannehill will.

 

 

Heck, if we are even saying that postseason track record matters a ton, then look at Joe's first three years in the playoffs... didn't even remotely have people thinking he was an "elite" playoff QB. The guy had 4 TDs and 7 INTs in the playoffs in his first three years, and he was basically a 150 yard/gm guy. Joe would have probably been extremely lucky to get a Tannehill level contract after his 3rd NFL season.

 

If Tannehill puts together a couple more improved seasons, and his team starts having some playoff success (entirely possible), then his contract will look like a real bargain in a few years.

Doesn't matter, because the Ravens didn't give Flacco a contract after 3 years. He may have been lucky to get a contract like that after 3 years, but he proved he could do much better. Tannehill has never come close to proving he could do that. You seem to think that because Tannehill has similar stats to Flacco's first 3 seasons, then it somehow means his career projection will be similar, or almost as good, but that's extremely unlikely, if not impossible, because he just doesn't have the ability Joe has.

 

 

If Tannehill puts together a couple more improved seasons, and his team starts having some playoff success (entirely possible), then his contract will look like a real bargain in a few years.

That's true for every starting caliber qb in the league.

 

 

3. Certainly the playoff success plays into it... thus why Joe's contract is larger. Clearly a value put on that... we just can't really quantify what that value is. Fans would have you think that a SB winning QB deserves twice as much as somebody who hasn't won a SB, but that's probably dramatically overestimating what a franchises value is on assigning success for teams efforts (which is what playoff wins are and always will be). In this case, you could argue that the Dolphins are basically saying that Joe's playoff success is worth $4M more per season, since that's essentially the difference in the contract.

Nobody's overestimating Joe's Value simply because he's won a SB. He helped turn a struggling team into a consistent contender. He has elite ability, and he's played at an elite level in the biggest moments. The Ravens haven't run a pass first offense often, but when they do, Flacco has shown over and over again that he can rise to the occasion and carry his team against anyone, anywhere, and he's done it on a team that invests very little on pass catchers. Tannehill has never come close to doing that, and he's never shown he has the ability to do that. If you're paying players to give your team the best chance to win the SB, Flacco deserves as much as anyone, and Tannehill is not anywhere close to that level. Winning in the playoffs is a team effort, but in today's NFL, teams that consistently compete for and win SBs are teams with qbs that can carry a team through a postseason. The Ravens certainly weren't winning in the playoffs without Flacco, and that was with a Ed and Ray in their primes.

 

 

 

4. As is the case with all contracts for QBs, the truth is, its mostly a risk/reward assessment of their replacement value. Can the Dolphins go into the FA market or even the draft and find a better QB than Ryan Tannehill right now, and if so, would he be significantly cheaper than the deal they just gave him?

I completely agree with this part.

[throwback2000]

Urschel, who in my opinion will be our next All-Pro Center, may play Rt Guard, if Yanda's agent gets too pushy. K.O., is the future, and like Yanda, is nasty. Yanda got his deal. K.O., if he continues to improve, is next in line!

[Fredo2052]

Can anyone name the QB with all these records below?

First rookie QB to start all 16 games and lead team to playoffs

First rookie QB to win 2 playoff games

Starts by a QB in 1st season %u2013 19

Starts by a QB in first 2 seasons %u2013 37

Starts by a QB in first 3 seasons %u2013 55

Starts by a QB in first 4 seasons %u2013 73

Starts by a QB in first 5 seasons %u2013 93

Starts by a QB in first 6 seasons %u2013 109

Wins by a QB in first 6 seasons %u2013 62

Combined regular/postseason wins in first 3 years as QB %u2013 36 (with Dan Marino)

Only QB to start/win a playoff game in each of his first 5 seasons

Road playoff wins by a QB %u2013 6

Most playoff wins by a QB in first 5 seaons %u2013 9 (with Tom Brady)

Passing TDs in a postseason %u2013 11 (with Joe Montana & Kurt Warner)

Passing TDs in a postseason without interception %u2013 11 (with Joe Montana)

First QB to have a passer rating over 100 in all four games of a single postseason

Consecutive playoff games with 3 passing TDs %u2013 3 (with Bernie Kosar, Kurt Warner & Aaron Rodgers

[Cillmatic]

Urschel, who in my opinion will be our next All-Pro Center, may play Rt Guard, if Yanda's agent gets too pushy. K.O., is the future, and like Yanda, is nasty. Yanda got his deal. K.O., if he continues to improve, is next in line!

Agreed, K.O and Tucker's contracts are more important than Yanda's at this point.

[stampedehero]

Only thing Tannehill's contract did was give Flacco a little more leverage when he will be asked to restructure his deal....Can't belief the Fins are giving this guy that kind of money for zero playoff wins...

He was most definately over valued. Living in Fla. is a $ bonus too.  The Dolphins are known for bone head deals.  Wallace was a prime example.

[balfan23]

He was most definately over valued. Living in Fla. is a $ bonus too.  The Dolphins are known for bone head deals.  Wallace was a prime example.

Perhaps, but I think we're seeing what the going rate may be for a QB that doesn't suck. Enough teams have no chance due to having a sub-par QB that any team that has a QB that is not a total liability is loathe to let him walk. 

[rmcjacket23]

Can anyone name the QB with all these records below? First rookie QB to start all 16 games and lead team to playoffs First rookie QB to win 2 playoff games Starts by a QB in 1st season – 19 Starts by a QB in first 2 seasons – 37 Starts by a QB in first 3 seasons – 55 Starts by a QB in first 4 seasons – 73 Starts by a QB in first 5 seasons – 93 Starts by a QB in first 6 seasons – 109 Wins by a QB in first 6 seasons – 62 Combined regular/postseason wins in first 3 years as QB – 36 (with Dan Marino) Only QB to start/win a playoff game in each of his first 5 seasons Road playoff wins by a QB – 6 Most playoff wins by a QB in first 5 seaons – 9 (with Tom Brady) Passing TDs in a postseason – 11 (with Joe Montana & Kurt Warner) Passing TDs in a postseason without interception – 11 (with Joe Montana) First QB to have a passer rating over 100 in all four games of a single postseason Consecutive playoff games with 3 passing TDs – 3 (with Bernie Kosar, Kurt Warner & Aaron Rodgers

Yes, I can.

 

But again, as I've been harping on, a lot of the records you are listing are TEAM records. 

 

Stop and digest this for a second:

 

The exact same QB is given 100% credit for a road playoff win when he completed a grand total of 4 passes. I'll repeat that again... 4 passes. That QB had more rushing attempts than completions in that game, yet he is given sole credit for that victory.

 

In fact, the very same QB, in the first 3 playoff wins that he again is given sole credit for, averaged 8 completions over those three games, completed 44% of his passes, 110 yards per game, with 1 TD pass total in 3 games... and he won them all.

 

This is why using the "wins postseason games" logic is inherently flawed. You are giving him credit for things that he was arguably detrimental towards.

[stampedehero]

Perhaps, but I think we're seeing what the going rate may be for a QB that doesn't suck. Enough teams have no chance due to having a sub-par QB that any team that has a QB that is not a total liability is loathe to let him walk. 

+>Thats an interesting viewpoint-- Going rate for a Qb that doesn't suck . Do you think Fitzpatrick deserves big bucks. I think Manziel is a joke and if the Browns paid him a lot then the river should catch fire again like it did in 69.  

[rmcjacket23]

 

Flacco has been making routine throws that other qb's wouldn't even consider trying since his rookie year. He didn't get many attempts in Cam's run heavy offense, but he did show the arm strength and accuracy to complete passes with a high degree of difficulty. He never had a deep threat in his first 3 years, but Tannehill has had Mike Wallace, and we've seen he can't take advantage of that. There's no reason to believe that's suddenly going to change.  Flacco had some mental growing pains, as all rookie qbs do, but he NEVER showed any limitations of physical ability. The article compares Flacco's contract(after 5 years) to Tannehill's(after 3 years), so comparing them both after 3 years isn't relevant anyway. Just because we've seen Flacco take huge steps in years 3 and 4(which I think was mostly due to coaching and personell changes) doesn't mean Tannehill will.

 

 

Doesn't matter, because the Ravens didn't give Flacco a contract after 3 years. He may have been lucky to get a contract like that after 3 years, but he proved he could do much better. Tannehill has never come close to proving he could do that. You seem to think that because Tannehill has similar stats to Flacco's first 3 seasons, then it somehow means his career projection will be similar, or almost as good, but that's extremely unlikely, if not impossible, because he just doesn't have the ability Joe has.

 

 

That's true for every starting caliber qb in the league.

 

 

Nobody's overestimating Joe's Value simply because he's won a SB. He helped turn a struggling team into a consistent contender. He has elite ability, and he's played at an elite level in the biggest moments. The Ravens haven't run a pass first offense often, but when they do, Flacco has shown over and over again that he can rise to the occasion and carry his team against anyone, anywhere, and he's done it on a team that invests very little on pass catchers. Tannehill has never come close to doing that, and he's never shown he has the ability to do that. If you're paying players to give your team the best chance to win the SB, Flacco deserves as much as anyone, and Tannehill is not anywhere close to that level. Winning in the playoffs is a team effort, but in today's NFL, teams that consistently compete for and win SBs are teams with qbs that can carry a team through a postseason. The Ravens certainly weren't winning in the playoffs without Flacco, and that was with a Ed and Ray in their primes.

 

 

I completely agree with this part.

 

1. If you are going to definitively say that Tannehill doesn't have the same skills as Flacco, that's fine. There's a lot of QBs in this league (who are equally or more successful than Joe) who don't have the same skills as him, or may even have less skills. 

 

If Tannehill has less or different skills, and can still be on the same track as Flacco in terms of statistical production, then that means 1 of 2 things... either the Dolphins are banking on continued ascension (perhaps towards a Flacco level) or Joe was simply underperforming in his first three years, which is also possible. 

 

2. You're right... it is true every starting QB in the NFL, which is the entire point. The Ravens opted to not sign Joe after his 4th season, and it undoubtedly cost them money. We don't know how much, but even from Joe's agent, it was significant. 

 

In that regard, the Dolphins really have very little risk/downside. $16M average annual value is actually relatively low in the present day NFL for a starting QB who isn't on a rookie deal. Over half the starting QBs in this league have an average annual value of over $15M, and that includes several QBs who are grossly underpaid on that list, and also excludes guys like Brady, Newton and Luck, who undoubtedly worth that much. So realistically, you're talking about 20 QBs almost in the NFL that are getting over $15M a year on average. Not coincidentally, that's probably about the same size of teams that have a "franchise caliber" QB on their roster. That also excludes the fact that Joe's contract is basically three years old now, and the salary cap has increased about 15% over that period, which means players salaries (and in particular, QBs) are increasing across the board as well.

 

So if you're the Dolphins... where's the real downside? You know after 3 years that he's your guy for the future, and you know that one great season could easily elevate his yearly average by $2-3M per season easily.

 

3. I'm not arguing that Joe's postseason performance is somehow diminished, but I think far too often fans like to lump his entire postseason career together and call it "elite". It was literally far from it. Joe's performances in the 08 and 09 postseasons were largely irrelevant. He was widely below average in just about any possible measurement of QB play in those postseasons. We saw a glimmer of something special early in 2010 postseason, but it really wasn't until the AFC title game in NE in 2011 postseason that we actually saw what "January Joe" really looks like, and he's continued that ever since.

 

From my perspective, for probably the first 3-5 postseason games of Joe's career, he was basically a replacement level QB. If he had put up similar numbers over a five game stretch in the regular season, there would have been serious discussion about benching him.

 

The point... you can't just say somebody won't be something just because you haven't seen them do it. That's the trap a guy like Lamar Woodley falls into when he watches Joe play for 3 years and then says "he will never win a SB". I didn't even blame him for that comment, because at the time, there was nothing to indicate he could.

[evass#ravensnation]

Yanda is starting to annoy me just like Ngata , hey if we can't work something out then bye bye you've seen what happens ! no matter who or what type of player you are #ObeyOzzie

[balfan23]

Yanda is starting to annoy me just like Ngata , hey if we can't work something out then bye bye you've seen what happens ! no matter who or what type of player you are #ObeyOzzie

There is a lot of time between now and when we reach that critical point with Yanda. I personally am planning to wait to be annoyed. Too many other opportunities to be annoyed between now and next February to bother with being annoyed by that now. 

[balfan23]

+>Thats an interesting viewpoint-- Going rate for a Qb that doesn't suck . Do you think Fitzpatrick deserves big bucks. I think Manziel is a joke and if the Browns paid him a lot then the river should catch fire again like it did in 69.  

I think Tannehill is more deserving than Fitzpatrick. To be fair to Tannehill, I don't know that we've seen the best of him yet. But with Fitzpatrick, the ceiling has been reached and it isn't that high. At this point, Fitzpatrick is best suited to be a really good backup whereas I think Tannehill is in the top half (barely) of all NFL starters. 

[TXRavensFan]

@TXRavensFan ok thanks now I understand Brunell put the names in order instead of listing his QB rankings. I was about to say because it wouldn't makes sense putting Andy Dalton ahead of Flacco. Thanks I appreciated.

No problem - I was confused at first too, then I noticed the order.

[EdBallhawkReed20]

I think the biggest overlooked position more than safety is wide receiver. The Ravens season is in jeopardy if Breshad Perriman gets hurt. They have no other deep threat receivers with speed. This will limit who is on the field. Quick question can anyone tell me why Michael Campanero is not our No. 3 receiver. I know some would say he has not proven himself, but I believe the Ravens drafted him to be a slot Wes Welker receiver just saying. if he does not play in the slot, kick or punt return. Why do we have him on the team. I think it would be great to rotate Marlon Brown Darren Waller and Steve Smith Sr.

[RavensBaltimore]

1. If you are going to definitively say that Tannehill doesn't have the same skills as Flacco, that's fine. There's a lot of QBs in this league (who are equally or more successful than Joe) who don't have the same skills as him, or may even have less skills. 

No, there are not a lot of qb's in this league who are equally or more successful than Joe, unless you are talking about fantasy stats. Since he was drafted, I don't think there is one qb in the league that is more successful than Joe.

 

If Tannehill has less or different skills, and can still be on the same track as Flacco in terms of statistical production, then that means 1 of 2 things... either the Dolphins are banking on continued ascension (perhaps towards a Flacco level) or Joe was simply underperforming in his first three years, which is also possible. 

Or Joe was held back by Cam Cameron and he hadn't hit his prime yet. Just because Tannehill's stats are similar to Flacco's in his first 3 years doesn't mean he's the same type of qb. The Ravens often went extremely conservative and sat on leads, and had a predictable playcaller with a basic, easy to defend passing game. That doesn't mean that Joe was underperforming. He was still making big throws when needed, and he did what he needed to do to win games, which they weren't doing much of before he was drafted. 

 

And you're really going to say that because Flacco started dominating in the postseason, it is reasonable to expect Tannehill to do the same, just because his regular season stats are similar? That makes no sense. A lot of qbs have similar regular season stats to Flacco's. Just about none of them have reached Flacco's level of success.

 

Just to show you how flawed stats can be at evaluating qb's, Drew Brees had less than 3,600 yds in all 4 years with Cam, then immediately started putting up monster stats with Sean Payton. Tom Brady put up about 3,500yds, 25tds and 10ints in his sixth year(which was a typical stat line in his first 6 years), and the next year, when he got Moss and Welker, he put up almost 5,000 yds, 50tds and 8ints. According to the stats, Brady suddenly became a far better qb in his 7th year. In reality, he wasn't better at all. He just had a more stat friendly offense, just as Brees did when he left Cam. You keep telling everyone that wins are a team stat, but so are yds and tds. Wins are just more important.

 

 

3. I'm not arguing that Joe's postseason performance is somehow diminished, but I think far too often fans like to lump his entire postseason career together and call it "elite". It was literally far from it. Joe's performances in the 08 and 09 postseasons were largely irrelevant.

Those were his rookie and sophomore seasons, and in his 2nd year, he was badly injured and wasn't himself. You can't criticize a rookie qb for not being able to go on the road, in the postseason, against the top 2 scoring defenses in the league, and put up big numbers. Still, Flacco led the game winning drive, on the road, against the league's 2nd best scoring D, to put the Ravens in the AFC Championship game. He was still winning as he was coming into his own, but since entering his prime in 2010, he has been the best postseason qb by far(24tds, 4ints). No one else is even close.

 

 

From my perspective, for probably the first 3-5 postseason games of Joe's career, he was basically a replacement level QB. If he had put up similar numbers over a five game stretch in the regular season, there would have been serious discussion about benching him.

Brady and Manning have had horrible postseason games, even in the primes of their careers. You're talking about Flacco when he was a rookie. Also, since the Ravens were beating good teams in his first 3-5 postseason games, I don't think he would have been benched.

 

 

 

The point... you can't just say somebody won't be something just because you haven't seen them do it. That's the trap a guy like Lamar Woodley falls into when he watches Joe play for 3 years and then says "he will never win a SB". I didn't even blame him for that comment, because at the time, there was nothing to indicate he could.

It's not about whether you say somebody will or won't be something. It's about whether they have actually shown that they can actually do it, and Tannehill hasn't. You don't just assume a guy will become an all time great winner and postseason player unless he actually shows he can do it. Otherwise, we'd be making that assumption about a lot of qbs, and we'd be wrong 99% of the time.

 

The Lamar Woodley reference was meaningless. He said that because Flacco is a Raven, and they play in the same division. At that point, Flacco had won in the playoffs 3 straight seasons, and it took a couple of fluke plays to keep him out of his 2nd AFC Championship game in 3 years, so there was something to indicate that he could do it.

 

As far as your giant paragraph defending the Dolphin's for giving Tannehill his contract, I have no problem with that. That's actually a good argument for his contract. What I disagreed with was the implication that he is close to Flacco's level because he has similar regular season stats.

[Maryland]

If my memory serves me correctly, Flacco is 5-0 against the Dolphins. I would think Dolphins fans would be the last ones to criticize Flacco and his contract after how he and his team have dominated them.

[boldtown]

burnell has carson palmer high than flacco?! only a fool would give merit to someone that quits on his team. and, cutler, the whiner! no wonder burnell lost all his money in financial decisions. too many hits to the head.

[NCMan]

I guess it's time for all the "look how any wins Flacco has" crowd to come out......yet again. He has NO wins!! You all need to start a collection and get a statue erected of him, so you have something tangible to worship in the offseason!! I sometimes wonder if Oz is aware of all the money he could save by getting rid of all the other players, since Joe does it all himself!!

[Joey Flac]

I guess it's time for all the "look how any wins Flacco has" crowd to come out......yet again. He has NO wins!! You all need to start a collection and get a statue erected of him, so you have something tangible to worship in the offseason!! I sometimes wonder if Oz is aware of all the money he could save by getting rid of all the other players, since Joe does it all himself!!

 

look at the top ranked quarterbacks then report back to me how Flacco is paid YEAR by YEAR compared to those guys... I'll just do it for you:

 

2013: 17th highest paid Qb

2014: 12th highest paid Qb 

2015: 15th highest paid Qb

 

Next year is Flacco's restructure year when he is the highest paid Qb.

 

He hasn't had a losing season and has won a playoff game every time he made it, 5/6 seasons... That is pretty BOSS. Flacco beat the Steelers and kept us in the Pats game. Nobody else! The defense lost the Pats game, so blame who you want... Flacco is the BEST player on our team at this point.

 

Don't sell me on Jimmy Smith or Yanda... Flacco is the BEST player on the Ravens right now. Not many people would have a solid argument against that either. CJ Mosley is a freak and has huge upside... maybe, but no middle linebackers are carrying us to the Super Bowl...

[Joey Flac]

1. If you are going to definitively say that Tannehill doesn't have the same skills as Flacco, that's fine. There's a lot of QBs in this league (who are equally or more successful than Joe) who don't have the same skills as him, or may even have less skills. 

 

If Tannehill has less or different skills, and can still be on the same track as Flacco in terms of statistical production, then that means 1 of 2 things... either the Dolphins are banking on continued ascension (perhaps towards a Flacco level) or Joe was simply underperforming in his first three years, which is also possible. 

 

2. You're right... it is true every starting QB in the NFL, which is the entire point. The Ravens opted to not sign Joe after his 4th season, and it undoubtedly cost them money. We don't know how much, but even from Joe's agent, it was significant. 

 

In that regard, the Dolphins really have very little risk/downside. $16M average annual value is actually relatively low in the present day NFL for a starting QB who isn't on a rookie deal. Over half the starting QBs in this league have an average annual value of over $15M, and that includes several QBs who are grossly underpaid on that list, and also excludes guys like Brady, Newton and Luck, who undoubtedly worth that much. So realistically, you're talking about 20 QBs almost in the NFL that are getting over $15M a year on average. Not coincidentally, that's probably about the same size of teams that have a "franchise caliber" QB on their roster. That also excludes the fact that Joe's contract is basically three years old now, and the salary cap has increased about 15% over that period, which means players salaries (and in particular, QBs) are increasing across the board as well.

 

So if you're the Dolphins... where's the real downside? You know after 3 years that he's your guy for the future, and you know that one great season could easily elevate his yearly average by $2-3M per season easily.

 

3. I'm not arguing that Joe's postseason performance is somehow diminished, but I think far too often fans like to lump his entire postseason career together and call it "elite". It was literally far from it. Joe's performances in the 08 and 09 postseasons were largely irrelevant. He was widely below average in just about any possible measurement of QB play in those postseasons. We saw a glimmer of something special early in 2010 postseason, but it really wasn't until the AFC title game in NE in 2011 postseason that we actually saw what "January Joe" really looks like, and he's continued that ever since.

 

From my perspective, for probably the first 3-5 postseason games of Joe's career, he was basically a replacement level QB. If he had put up similar numbers over a five game stretch in the regular season, there would have been serious discussion about benching him.

 

The point... you can't just say somebody won't be something just because you haven't seen them do it. That's the trap a guy like Lamar Woodley falls into when he watches Joe play for 3 years and then says "he will never win a SB". I didn't even blame him for that comment, because at the time, there was nothing to indicate he could.

Miami eliminated the deep ball cause Ryan Tannehill can't throw deep... don't mention him in the same breath as Joe "Moment of Truth" Flacco

[rmcjacket23]

Miami eliminated the deep ball cause Ryan Tannehill can't throw deep... don't mention him in the same breath as Joe "Moment of Truth" Flacco

Doesn't matter. Throwing deep is just one of many, many, many facets of QB play, and there's plenty of QBs in this league who are incredibly successful who can't complete a 40 yard pass.

[rodbestboy]

I like that Tony Romo is tier one, and hasn't had a sniff of the Lombardi Trophy, and then Joe, Eli Manning and Russell Wilson are Tier two on Brunell's list, with five combined super bowl appearances and four rings. Also, how can you have

[RavenManiac#7]

Kraft "reluctantly" will "go along" with the league's punishment on the under-inflated footballs because he is a "league man." How about because he knows his team is guilty of the offense and that he knows it has been caught cheating before? Don't forget that he had the audacity to call for an apology from the league. He is not only the owner of a cheating organization, he is arrogant of it. How dare Anyone catch his team in their cheating endeavors! What a "low-life!" In my opinion, he should have been forced to sell his franchise to someone who has no problem playing by the rules. If he had any honesty and integrity within him he would want to rid his organization of Any people who would resort to cheating. It tarnishes His name as well as the actual offenders, but he, apparently, has No problem with that. I certainly would. If I owned a team, or any other organization or company, I would care Greatly about its reputation as a fair, honest, and respectful entity. To me, he is an embarrassment to the NFL, and to continue to employ people would purposely break or skirt the rules shows that he really doesn't care at all about his own or his team's reputation. If I were in his position as the owner of the Cheatriots, people would have been fired after the First time it was caught cheating. But not with Kraft. He just stares into the camera claiming total innocence, gives No cooperation to the investigation, arrogantly calls for an apology from the league, then moans and groans about the penalties levied, but because he is a "league man" decides to just "go along" with the penalty. And then, business goes on as usual with his cheating coach and the rest of his team. Does anybody really think that this will change anything with the Cheatriots? I, for one, do not. I haven't seen even one tiny iota of an indication of remorse or ownership of the atmosphere of "anything for a win" attitude that his organization, including cheating, stands for and operates with. He, and others in the Cheatriot organization, most notably his coach, are a stain on the entire NFL. It would be refreshing to see the league do all it can legally to rid itself of people like them.

[RavenManiac#7]

Not a question of being OK with it... its a question of trading off one punishment for significantly reducing a more important one. No different than the thousands of people who plea bargain to lesser sentences of crimes they didn't commit. Happens often in this country. Why would you plea bargain if you aren't guilty? Because perhaps the risk of not convincing somebody you aren't guilty is exceedingly greater than just taking a much lighter punishment.

 

Black eyes go away... people forget them. We all root for an organization that had one of the blackest eyes we've ever seen in league history less than a year ago. We as fans have moved on from that, and so will everybody else eventually.

 

I don't really make much about the "losing 1st round pick" idea. Sure, its a first round pick. Historically, the Patriots aren't exactly the best with their day 1 picks (they often trade out, and they often miss). They are better in the later rounds, and lets face it, anybody the Pats are going to take in the back end of the first round isn't all of the sudden going to bolt them from a pretender to a contender in a single offseason.

 

Its one pick... that means one player, and it won't be a QB. It wouldn't surprise me in the slighest if the Patriots win the 2016 SB, despite not having a first round pick the year before. And they'd be laughing at everybody else because of it.

jacket, you know how much I respect you and I haven't hid the fact that I think you are one of the most well informed and logical posters on here. All that remains just as much as it ever has. I'm not saying that this post of yours is any less logical than pretty much all your others, but I can't deny that this one struck a nerve with me. I readily admit that it is a personal one that really says more about who I am as a person rather than your analysis of Kraft's situation. What you said Is right. I am just So disgusted with Kraft, Belicheater, Crybaby Brady, and the whole Cheatriot organization that I fear I have lost the ability to see things as clearly as you are still able to do. I respect and admire you for that. I guess I have a character flaw that allows me to get so upset about this situation that I let my feelings affect my judgement and thoughts. Personally, I will admit that I'd like to see the whole bunch of them gone. Kraft forced to sell, Belicheater banned from the league, and Brady set out for a year. I know how silly that sounds, but I TRULY hate cheaters. But, honestly, you made sense and should not have been negged for doing so. I'm supposed to be able to forgive, but I'd like to see some repentance first. Don't expect to see any of that, so I guess I'll have to work on my end of that equation.

[OriginalRaven98]

is that guy high why is Philip rivers a 1st tier QB and why i flacco a 2nd tier change that pls cuz evryone hates on flacco why all the man does is win football games and yet someone still hates him for something weather ppl like it or not FLACCO IS ELITE no one can say anything else like hes got a ring hes got a SB MVP cut the man some slack jeez there were 3 ppl on the top tier list with out a ring 2 that doees not have a better win-loss than flacco like c'mon man for real andrew luck like im not saying hes a bad QB thats not it at all i love andrew luck personly i thing hes a better colt than peyton manning but thats just me..... all im saying is give flacco what he deserves.

[ReginaldColeman1]

Kraft ran up against the consensus of league owners who want this quieted down. It's one thing to give fans in Foxborough their time to rant and rave during the appeal. It's another for Tom Brady to lose a lot of money. There was an article and no I don't have the site but it was maybe two days ago. It related the fall from grace following the story and the undoing of his appeal to sponsors. Brady makes his money, contract documentation notwithstanding, on his name. He wins the coveted life style award but at the same time his character appeal fell significantly. Suffice to say his worth in the after market for products and appearances will hurt him a lot more than anything Goodell can do. It's business and they gave Tom the business. A million to Kraft? That's nothing according to his image. Perhaps not as lasting as the losses sustained by Tiger Woods but not chump change either I suspect. Anyway it's time for the Ravens to stop smarting over this and move on.

[Space11jams]

@Space11jams it is a joke sometimes I think analyst just don't mean what they put on the list because it doesn't make sense putting Andy Dalton, Cam Netwon, etc ahead of Flacco. They just can't be that dumb and by the way before I went on this site I saw an article that says "Ravens deemed as 'above average' cheaters" in the top ten franchises just because Joe Flacco says he was going to tackle Ted Ginn Jr in the Super Bowl now that the stupidest thing I've ever heard and I laugh so hard. LOL They love disrespecting the Ravens my goodness.

Are you serious?!?! HAHAH that's insane!