Ravens OTAs and minicamp discussion

[Ravensfan23]

If the early prognosis is Camp is ready to practice again in 2 months, I don't see any way he stays on PUP for the start of the season without a major setback.  The PUP would put him out for 4.5 months, which probably is unnecessary.  I could see him starting camp on the PUP and them activating him for game 3/4 of preseason to be able to get him some reps before the season, but I doubt he stays on the PUP through the end of camp.

The hope is that he's ready to go in 2 months, but he'd still have to hit the field and he'll be behind everyone else. Also the the 3rd and 4th weeks of camp is more so the time where u start to focus on game plans and where each guy fits in the offense moreso then prove yourself. Again the coaches may wanna try to retain him by going the pup route because he's no lock.

Is he eligible to go on the PUP? I ask because he participated in a practice so I'm not sure he's eligible. Need some clarity there.

That's a good question. By it being voluntarily and not much interaction with coaches it may not apply. Both Pitta and Brooks were dressed for practice and i don't think either is cleared for contact yet so both will at least start camp on PUP i think.

I know if u practice during any point in camp u aren't eligible for PUP, but i don't think OTAs count.

[Static]

I still have very high hopes for Brooks

[Ravensfan23]

I still have very high hopes for Brooks

As do i. The veteran talent we've added to the secondary, mixed with the good health of returning players it'll really allow TB to shine in his style of play. He's not the ball hawking Safety that Ed was but who is? He's more of that stabilising force on the back end. He's just as likely to make a game changing hit as a game changing int. Because of the situation with injuries, i thought all of our young Safeties were asked to play outside of themselves honestly. Now with guys like Hill and Lewis planted firmly in their roles imo, guys like Elam and Brooks can really play to their strengths, which ultimately allows them to play to there potential. The injury sets him back a bit but give him one full healthy season and he'll be viewed as a really good player with pro bowl potential. See a lot of Eric Weddle in him.

[AsianRice]

As do i. The veteran talent we've added to the secondary, mixed with the good health of returning players it'll really allow TB to shine in his style of play. He's not the ball hawking Safety that Ed was but who is? He's more of that stabilising force on the back end. He's just as likely to make a game changing hit as a game changing int. Because of the situation with injuries, i thought all of our young Safeties were asked to play outside of themselves honestly. Now with guys like Hill and Lewis planted firmly in their roles imo, guys like Elam and Brooks can really play to their strengths, which ultimately allows them to play to there potential. The injury sets him back a bit but give him one full healthy season and he'll be viewed as a really good player with pro bowl potential. See a lot of Eric Weddle in him.

 

I'd like to add on it that he has a natural born football instinct that can't be taught.  I hope he stays healthy so Ravens fans can see how far he can get in his football career; a pro-bowl, HOF, legend or just an average football player due to injury or other obstacles....

[757RavensFan]

Did they have an OTA session today?  I know they're having the Beach Bash event today at Ocean City, but I haven't seen or heard anything about today's OTA session.   

[Ravensfan23]

I'd like to add on it that he has a natural born football instinct that can't be taught.  I hope he stays healthy so Ravens fans can see how far he can get in his football career; a pro-bowl, HOF, legend or just an average football player due to injury or other obstacles....

Yea Terrence has a very high football IQ and just overall understanding of the game. I actually think that's what slowed him last season imo. He was thinking far too much instead of just playing. I think his quickness, speed and overall movement will be improved with the surgery.

[dhstandard]

The hope is that he's ready to go in 2 months, but he'd still have to hit the field and he'll be behind everyone else. Also the the 3rd and 4th weeks of camp is more so the time where u start to focus on game plans and where each guy fits in the offense moreso then prove yourself. Again the coaches may wanna try to retain him by going the pup route because he's no lock.

That's a good question. By it being voluntarily and not much interaction with coaches it may not apply. Both Pitta and Brooks were dressed for practice and i don't think either is cleared for contact yet so both will at least start camp on PUP i think.

I know if u practice during any point in camp u aren't eligible for PUP, but i don't think OTAs count.

I don't see it.  The coaches want to see if he can stay healthy.  We know he is better than most of our other slot guys.  He is also one of the few returners we have.  If he's ready to go, start him day 1 and see if he can make it through camp without injury.  We know he can play and I'd throw him ahead of Marlon Brown given his production in significantly fewer snaps.  

 

1. Steve Smith

2. Breshad Perriman

3. Aiken

4. Brown*

5.Waller

6.Carter or Camp

 

This is my predicted depth chart at receiver for the start of the season.  As of now, I don't see Marlon Brown as a lock.  He gets #4 from experience but the guy was horrendous last season.  If Camp can't stay healthy, he could be cut or thrown on IR at the start of the season.

[DomMcRaven]

Yea Terrence has a very high football IQ and just overall understanding of the game. I actually think that's what slowed him last season imo. He was thinking far too much instead of just playing. I think his quickness, speed and overall movement will be improved with the surgery.

Yep. However, how could I forget that unforgivable "play" by him in the game against the Saints before halftime. That was horrible though.

[757RavensFan]

I don't see it. The coaches want to see if he can stay healthy. We know he is better than most of our other slot guys. He is also one of the few returners we have. If he's ready to go, start him day 1 and see if he can make it through camp without injury. We know he can play and I'd throw him ahead of Marlon Brown given his production in significantly fewer snaps.

1. Steve Smith

2. Breshad Perriman

3. Aiken

4. Brown*

5.Waller

6.Carter or Camp

This is my predicted depth chart at receiver for the start of the season. As of now, I don't see Marlon Brown as a lock. He gets #4 from experience but the guy was horrendous last season. If Camp can't stay healthy, he could be cut or thrown on IR at the start of the season.

Horrendous, how so? He made the most of his limited opportunity. I would venture to say, he was clutch our last few games of the season. Listening to Harbs comment about Brown and his expectations of him, I would definitely say he's a lock.

[Static]

Yep. However, how could I forget that unforgivable "play" by him in the game against the Saints before halftime. That was horrible though.

 

Rookies make mistakes, atleast he was in position unlike Elam. Harbs benched him after that and he couldnt redeem himself.

 

 

"I should have made the play," Brooks said while shaking his head in disgust. "I read the play perfectly and I was in position to get a pick. Obviously, I didn't come up with it. I just got to be more aggressive on the ball and have that confidence and play how I'm supposed to play. I feel like I'm kind of in a rut.

"I'm actually up and down with it right now. I don't know what it is, but we got to figure it out fast and play better. That was a play I definitely should have made. It just didn't happen. I'm disappointed in myself and how I'm playing right now. This up-and-down thing, it don't matter if I'm a rookie or not." 

[harfordravenfan]

I think players make the 53-man roster in camp, but plenty of them lose their opportunity in OTAs.

 

Agreed, now is the time for Carter to show up and make it tough for the coaches to decide or gamble with putting Carter on the PS.

[jimmypowder]

Yea. The guys who want him gone already are insane. I think he has the potential to be a killer slot guy. There's also the fact he's being paid in peanuts and is just flat out valuable to keep. People get hurt. Jags should cut Fowler...

I feel Camp will end up like Brandon Stokely . Injury prone but will be a good reciever .

No way will he get cut . He showed me a lot in limited play last year . That td catch in the end zone where he completely shifted his body to make the catch was a jaw dropper .

He has a very strong upside , could end up better then Stokely if he stays healthy .

Edited May 30, 2015 by jimmypowder

[Sami84]

by the way…don't listen to baltimore ravens.com and harbs when it comes to perriman and how good he may look at training camp

 

[GrimCoconut]

by the way…don't listen to baltimore ravens.com and harbs when it comes to perriman and how good he may look at training camp

You're looking at it in a vacuum again. All that says is Elam looks good in practice but doesn't live up to it live in game action. That doesn't mean they're lying or hyping their guy.

[Sami84]

You're looking at it in a vacuum again. All that says is Elam looks good in practice but doesn't live up to it live in game action. That doesn't mean they're lying or hyping their guy.

 

i'd really like to see all the comments people were making about elam this time of the year when i was public enemy number one on this board for telling it like it is. none of you guys are going to be liking perriman. Ive tried been positive but watching more tape..its just sheer bust to me. Devante Parker, Devin Smith and even a guy like dorsett and lockett would have been better picks.

[GrimCoconut]

i'd really like to see all the comments people were making about elam this time of the year when i was public enemy number one on this board for telling it like it is. none of you guys are going to be liking perriman. Ive tried been positive but watching more tape..its just sheer bust to me. Devante Parker, Devin Smith and even a guy like dorsett and lockett would have been better picks.

Don't get me wrong. I liked others more than him as well. I'm just patient enough to realize it takes time and he's a work in progress. I think you need to just give him a chance and try to not judge him off his college tape. That's what I'm doing.

Make no mistake...It's well known I really liked Dorsett and Smith more than Perriman. I recognize that perhaps I'm wrong about him and I think you need to do the same. At least wait until preseason. You're nagging on the guy for his college work. That stuff doesn't matter anymore.

[Sami84]

i just get a little frustrated with some draft picks..you see I'm the kind of guy that unless you have a top 5 talent who's an incredible athlete and football player you go for the football player over the athlete..im sorry to say but perriman is no football player. he's a great athlete. You can see it watching him. His routes are sloppy..he doesn't use his hands well at the line and is actually quite soft.

 

for me i'd always pick the fluid football player who knows what he's doing on the field.

 

perriman is just..urgh..

[ludy51]

It's amazing how somebody who isn't a football player made it to the NFL.

[Sami84]

It's amazing how somebody who isn't a football player made it to the NFL.

 

urrr actually there have been quite a few and the majority were busts…by that i don't mean by job description i mean by the eye test

 

watch bud dupree flop at pittsburgh. he's a bad pick..what shocks me is that ozzie wanted him and there was a groan in the war room when steelers took him.

[GrimCoconut]

i just get a little frustrated with some draft picks..you see I'm the kind of guy that unless you have a top 5 talent who's an incredible athlete and football player you go for the football player over the athlete..im sorry to say but perriman is no football player. he's a great athlete. You can see it watching him. His routes are sloppy..he doesn't use his hands well at the line and is actually quite soft.

for me i'd always pick the fluid football player who knows what he's doing on the field.

perriman is just..urgh..

I understand some of those concerns. When I was watching Perriman this year I saw a 2nd-3rd round talent; however, when I watched Bortles last year I saw a pretty good playmaker. That said, he had a better year statically without Blake than with him. That's pretty good. He's also coming from a pro style offense--also very good. He's athletically very good and compares to Kevin White in ways. I think he's deceptively fast and I think he understands how to accelerate and change his speed. That's really important to separation. I also think his drops are somewhat overrated and weighed too heavily against him. Enough of those balls were poor throws that they tell me he had to adjust to them, which he did. I don't see this as an issue with Joe.

With that said, Perriman sat on his routes too much for me. I'm not sure if it's due in part to the QB or not. I don't have time to analyze it anymore so I won't. I also think he is inconsistent and can be either knocked off his route or control it by dominating the CB. He needs to work on these two things.

I sort of question how well he tracks the ball. That's related partially to how he tends to sit on routes, which I think could be related to the QB and Perriman not trusting him.

I will say he has the biggest upside of the three--Perriman, Smith and Dorsett. I still slightly prefer the others to Perriman, but I'm optimistic he'll be a great WR. I'm hoping Joe, Engram and Trestman help bring him along with Steve Smith Sr. I will say that he appears to have heart and wants to succeed. That didn't seem to help Torrey too much but I do think it's an important part of being a great football player.

[Sami84]

I understand some of those concerns. When I was watching Perriman this year I saw a 2nd-3rd round talent; however, when I watched Bortles last year I saw a pretty good playmaker. That said, he had a better year statically without Blake than with him. That's pretty good. He's also coming from a pro style offense--also very good. He's athletically very good and compares to Kevin White in ways. I think he's deceptively fast and I think he understands how to accelerate and change his speed. That's really important to separation. I also think his drops are somewhat overrated and weighed too heavily against him. Enough of those balls were poor throws that they tell me he had to adjust to them, which he did. I don't see this as an issue with Joe.

With that said, Perriman sat on his routes too much for me. I'm not sure if it's due in part to the QB or not. I don't have time to analyze it anymore so I won't. I also think he is inconsistent and can be either knocked off his route or control it by dominating the CB. He needs to work on these two things.

I sort of question how well he tracks the ball. That's related partially to how he tends to sit on routes, which I think could be related to the QB and Perriman not trusting him.

I will say he has the biggest upside of the three--Perriman, Smith and Dorsett. I still slightly prefer the others to Perriman, but I'm optimistic he'll be a great WR. I'm hoping Joe, Engram and Trestman help bring him along with Steve Smith Sr. I will say that he appears to have heart and wants to succeed. That didn't seem to help Torrey too much but I do think it's an important part of being a great football player.

 

by the way..his hands are a secondary issue..my beef with him is his lack of vision on the field. he doesn't know how to extend routes or use his movement effectively. he's one of the worst route runners I've seen and what i didn't like was at the podium..much like matt elam did , he mentioned being able to run all the routes well..

 

…no..no son.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Sami84

[GrimCoconut]

by the way..his hands are a secondary issue..my beef with him is his lack of vision on the field. he doesn't know how to extend routes or use his movement effectively. he's one of the worst route runners I've seen and what i didn't like was at the podium..much like matt elam did , he mentioned being able to run all the routes well..

…no..no son.

All I'm saying is just give him a chance until at least the end of preseason, possibly even into the regular season. Wait and see how he responds to success and failure, then by all means judge him. I think you're judgment at the moment is a bit premature and I think it's tiring in everyone. He's a Raven regardless, and he's a rookie. I don't care if you've been right about Elam so far. Just stop the complaining and criticism until there's at least real NFL evidence to support it.

Many great WR in college bust as pros and many ho-hum college WR have become standouts. Just be patient and at least wait until we see how he plays here, with this team, QB, coaching and against real NFL talent.

[Sami84]

All I'm saying is just give him a chance until at least the end of preseason, possibly even into the regular season. Wait and see how he responds to success and failure, then by all means judge him. I think you're judgment at the moment is a bit premature and I think it's tiring in everyone. He's a Raven regardless, and he's a rookie. I don't care if you've been right about Elam so far. Just stop the complaining and criticism until there's at least real NFL evidence to support it.

Many great WR in college bust as pros and many ho-hum college WR have become standouts. Just be patient and at least wait until we see how he plays here, with this team, QB, coaching and against real NFL talent.

 

Actually as for the last statement that is true..but not college bum becomes a WR standout unless it was system based…usually its bad scouting or a small team.

[harfordravenfan]

Actually as for the last statement that is true..but not college bum becomes a WR standout unless it was system based…usually its bad scouting or a small team.

didn't perriman come from a triple option system? Not a great place for a wr to shine, perhaps with a good system and coaching he'll develop nicely but I am a strong optimist lol

[BmoreBird22]

didn't perriman come from a triple option system? Not a great place for a wr to shine, perhaps with a good system and coaching he'll develop nicely but I am a strong optimist lol

That's Waller. Perriman played in a pro style offense.

[GrimCoconut]

didn't perriman come from a triple option system? Not a great place for a wr to shine, perhaps with a good system and coaching he'll develop nicely but I am a strong optimist lol

Yeah Perriman came from a pro style offense, which also affects him because he doesn't get the benefit of the spread like most college WR.

[harfordravenfan]

Yeah Perriman came from a pro style offense, which also affects him because he doesn't get the benefit of the spread like most college WR.

Thanks for the correction (same for other member)

Lets see if I get this one right... Did he have a not so great qb throwing to him also? (my memory sucks)

[BmoreBird22]

Thanks for the correction (same for other member)

Lets see if I get this one right... Did he have a not so great qb throwing to him also? (my memory sucks)

Terrible quarterback

[GrimCoconut]

Thanks for the correction (same for other member)

Lets see if I get this one right... Did he have a not so great qb throwing to him also? (my memory sucks)

This year his QB sucked. Last year he had Blake Bortles. He actually did better without Bortles and posted better numbers.

[TXRavensFan]

Terrible quarterback

 

I posted this before, but it illustrates the effect that Holman had on Perriman. This comes from a fantasy site, and while I don't particularly care for fantasy football, I find their player analyses to be pretty unbiased (definitely less so than fans suffering from confirmation bias because they wanted their team to pick someone else), since their main goal is to determine which players will produce numbers for fantasy players at the pro level:

 

The data indicates that Breshad Perriman’s closest comparable is Kevin White, and Kevin White’s best comparable is Breshad Perriman. Furthermore, the variance between White and Perriman is the smallest variance between two comparable WRs in the 2015 draft class. According to abilities that we can actually measure, White and Perriman are doppelgängers.

 

Why then do 100 out of 100 NFL draft analysts rate Kevin White ahead of Breshad Perriman?

1. Industry groupthink – why draft Teddy Bridgewater when you can have Johnny Manziel?!?!
2. Quarterback play. Justin Holman – while Clint Trickett was a top-40 college quarterback by every measure (67.1 completion percentage, 7.8 YPA, 67.8 Total QBR), Justin Holman fell outside the top-50 in all categories, and his 56.9 percent completion percentage, in particular, made it more challenging for Breshad Perriman to impress NFL talent evaluators and sport media draft analysts.

How did Holman’s struggles specifically affect Breshad Perriman’s draft stock? An ineffective UCF offense meant fewer total plays, fewer red zone opportunities, and fewer total catches, leading to fewer opportunities for highlight reel-worthy plays, forcing Perriman to do more with less (see 20.9 YPR vs. 13.3 YPR). Just one less ball thrown to a location where Perriman could go up and make a spectacular acrobatic catch is one less opportunity for a film watching aficionado to “fall in love” with Perriman’s ability to “highpoint the football” and to “look the part” of a “true game changer.” Less accurate throws not only make big plays more challenging, every inaccurate pass, that is not converted into a catch, is an opportunity for a subjective film watcher to credit Breshad Perriman with a drop. Not surprisingly, he posted a 14-percent drop rate based on Pro Football Focus’ perception of each catch’s degree of difficulty.

 

If Breshad Perriman and Kevin White traded jerseys and quarterbacks last season, Perriman would be a top-10 lock, and Kevin White would be the “late riser.”

 

http://rotoviz.com/2015/04/rotoviz-round-table-breshad-perriman-edition/