Ravens OTAs and minicamp discussion

[Sami84]

Thing is what seperates him to aiken? Mmm even tho ivr seen more of aiken for obvious reasons i think butler is as good but bigger.. I'm Not sold on marlon brown.. I'm Willing to give perriman a shot despite my fears. On the eye test though butler might be the gem

[Ravensfan23]

Thing is what seperates him to aiken? Mmm even tho ivr seen more of aiken for obvious reasons i think butler is as good but bigger.. I'm Not sold on marlon brown.. I'm Willing to give perriman a shot despite my fears. On the eye test though butler might be the gem

 

Just based off what I saw last year in TC and preseason, he's bigger, strong and more explosive then Aiken. However Aiken said in his presser that he wanted to get back to being that explosive play making type WR that he apparently was at UCF, so it'll be interesting to see how much Aiken has improved him game from last season. 

 

Not sure what there is to not be sold on Marlon Brown, but i've been there countless times this offseason, I'm at the point where I'll just let Marlon Brown's play do the talking. 

 

In terms of Butler being a gem, I've been fortunate enough to attend TC practices for the past 2 years in Owings Mills. In those two years, no other young WRs popped out at practice more then Marlon Brown and Jeremy Butler. I remember coming back from practice two years ago and telling you guys how good Brown would be and he was still hurt at the time. A week later he showed out in a preseason game and eventually locked down a starting spot. He was quick, explosive, and caught everything and all this was on a bum ACL. I watched Butler last season and it was the same thing. This guy was so explosive for a guy his size. I remember the open practice at the Bank last year, Butler made a play over the middle that just wowed me. It was a simple slant, but the ball came out of Flacco's hands hot and seeming before Butler had made his break to the ball, but he still managed to get there, snag the throw and never break stride getting up the field. 

 

This year's group is nothing like the 2013 group. They are hungry with tons of talent. 

[757RavensFan]

He always says that right up until the player ends up in IR.

 

Yep...J. Smith initial diagnosis was a return in 4-6 weeks. Yeah, NO!!

[ludy51]

Yep...J. Smith initial diagnosis was a return in 4-6 weeks. Yeah, NO!!

That was before the swelling had completely gone down. He didn't lie.

[izvoodoo]

Yea, he also put the Ravens in a great position when it comes to contract talks with both Yanda and KO. You don't have to overpay to keep either guy if you have a guy like Urschel who can fill either position before moving over to Center. 

 

I'm also very impressed with Hurst. I had a debate last season with, Grim(I think) and I basically said that there wasn't much chance of Hurst making the team and even if he did he wasn't a guy you could or should expect much from. Boy was I wrong on that one. He's definitely a guy I think could start this year if not for Monroe.

I feel like Hurst is a fringe starter.  But as depth he's phenomenal.  

[Cillmatic]

Butler is a really good player. Justmy opinion based on last years pre season and the clips in college.

Means a lot coming from the EOD

[Ravensfan23]

I feel like Hurst is a fringe starter.  But as depth he's phenomenal.  

 

I think the offense protected him alot last season as he was overmatched a few times. However, one thing that was never overmatched was his toughness. He had really good technique for the most part, but just didn't seem strong enough. I think a full NFL strength and conditioning programs paired with the teaching of Juan will do wonders for Hurst. 

 

On that note, much props to Juan Castillo, that guy took so much crap from the fanbase two years ago. But he's done a great job developing our young oline. Guys like KO, Wagner, Urschel and Hurst owe him a lot. Hell even Gino developed well enough to have another team trade for him. 

[Cillmatic]

If we are to believe all the camp hype of Harbaugh, Joe and Co. Steve Smith isn't even going to smart. By what they've bren saying the depth chart is gonna be:

Aiken

Butler

Perriman

Brown/Steve

Waller

Carter

[Ravensfan23]

If we are to believe all the camp hype of Harbaugh, Joe and Co. Steve Smith isn't even going to smart. By what they've bren saying the depth chart is gonna be:

Aiken

Butler

Perriman

Brown/Steve

Waller

Carter

 

Just because you talk positive about a guy doesn't make it hype. All those guys are going out, working hard and as of right now performing well. Really can't see how anyone could find fault with what's happening with the WR group. 

[Cillmatic]

Just because you talk positive about a guy doesn't make it hype. All those guys are going out, working hard and as of right now performing well. Really can't see how anyone could find fault with what's happening with the WR group.

I never said the hype was bad. But this early in non-physical contact practice a lot if the praise is more hype.

[Ravensfan23]

I never said the hype was bad. But this early in non-physical contact practice a lot if the praise is more hype.

 

I don't like to read about the praise guys get, I rather hear the guy speaking about the praise. If you watch Flacco's presser, there wasn't much hype at all about Butler. He just said the young guys as a whole have been working hard and because of long days, starting at 5am, you can tell those guys are mentally and physically drained. However they are still coming out and making good catches and fighting. He just mentioned that Butler has caught everything that's come his way, but he still has some things to work on. 

 

There is no hype in that, however if you read what reporters write, you would think Flacco said that Butler would rack up 1,500 yards during the season. I get what you are saying in terms of being weary of all the praise, but I think if you listen to the comments from the presser instead of reading what reporters right, the difference between praise and hype becomes a bit clearer. At least imo. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Did anyone else see from the sessions notes today that Zach Orr has been getting most of the 1st team reps at ILB with Mosley out?

What does that say about Arthur Brown and his development?

I mean, I knew he's been underwhelming and reportedly struggled early on to grasp the defense, but part of me (maybe wishful thinking a bit) thought him not seeing the field much was due to being stuck behind elite talent and his lack of contribution to special teams.

But now, we're seeing an UDFA guy in his 2nd year getting reps ahead of him purely based on defensive ability. This isn't an active roster decision where you take Orr over Brown because he can play ST's... This is who the coaching staff views as the primary backup on defense at that position.

I wonder if McClellan is ahead of him too? For a highly touted 2nd round pick who we traded up to select it's disappointing. On college film his instincts, coverage ability, sure tackling, and closing speed just jump out at you. I just can't figure out how none of that is translating at this level.

He's on the small side... But that can't be the only reason. He must be struggling that much with the mental aspect in being able to understand the defense, read the offense and just process information at this speed. I'm sure his confidence is shot too...

Hate to think it but at this rate the guy may never see the field - at least in purple and black.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

I don't like to read about the praise guys get, I rather hear the guy speaking about the praise. If you watch Flacco's presser, there wasn't much hype at all about Butler. He just said the young guys as a whole have been working hard and because of long days, starting at 5am, you can tell those guys are mentally and physically drained. However they are still coming out and making good catches and fighting. He just mentioned that Butler has caught everything that's come his way, but he still has some things to work on.

There is no hype in that, however if you read what reporters write, you would think Flacco said that Butler would rack up 1,500 yards during the season. I get what you are saying in terms of being weary of all the praise, but I think if you listen to the comments from the presser instead of reading what reporters right, the difference between praise and hype becomes a bit clearer. At least imo.

I get what you're saying and agree to an extent... But the comment on Flacco's presser and the media adding hype is a bit off.

Flacco did say Butlers racked up probably 1500 yards in a 3 day minicamp. That's what he actually said and that's all that the articles attributed to him as saying.

Flacco used the word "incredible" and Engram described Butler as "unbelievable" in regards to his level of play during the offseason. That's some pretty strong and lofty praise - and hype coming straight from the mouth of his QB and position coach. Neither one came anywhere near as positive when describing any other receivers play so far. So, to just give your standard coach speak for everyone else, and then to go out of your way to praise Butler with such powerful word choice (incredible, unbelievable) - you have to infer that Butler really did stand out far and above what anyone else did.

But any inferences about that equating to predictions of Butler being able to put up similar numbers over the course of a season were made by you - not constructed by the reporter(s).

I could understand where you're coming from if the article made point a and point b and nudged you toward connecting the dots... But "point b" I.e. Butler being able to put up a 1,500 yard season was never made or even hinted at.

So the hype machine isn't the media, in this case it's the reader.

Edited June 19, 2015 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[DomMcRaven]

Did anyone else see from the sessions notes today that Zach Orr has been getting most of the 1st team reps at ILB with Mosley out?

What does that say about Arthur Brown and his development?

I mean, I knew he's been underwhelming and reportedly struggled early on to grasp the defense, but part of me (maybe wishful thinking a bit) thought him not seeing the field much was due to being stuck behind elite talent and his lack of contribution to special teams.

But now, we're seeing an UDFA guy in his 2nd year getting reps ahead of him purely based on defensive ability. This isn't an active roster decision where you take Orr over Brown because he can play ST's... This is who the coaching staff views as the primary backup on defense at that position.

I wonder if McClellan is ahead of him too? For a highly touted 2nd round pick who we traded up to select it's disappointing. On college film his instincts, coverage ability, sure tackling, and closing speed just jump out at you. I just can't figure out how none of that is translating at this level.

He's on the small side... But that can't be the only reason. He must be struggling that much with the mental aspect in being able to understand the defense, read the offense and just process information at this speed. I'm sure his confidence is shot too...

Hate to think it but at this rate the guy may never see the field - at least in purple and black.

I guess that's where I was getting at with my answer in the "Areas of weaknesses" thread. You are absolutely right with our starters at ILB being better than our starters at safety. I may have misinterpreted your question as overall depth and that's why I chose inside linebacker for the reasons bolded. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

I guess that's where I was getting at with my answer in the "Areas of weaknesses" thread. You are absolutely right with our starters at ILB being better than our starters at safety. I may have misinterpreted your question as overall depth and that's why I chose inside linebacker for the reasons bolded.

Yea but my point was not only are the starters better at ILB but also for everything you can say about Brown you can say about Elam who was a 1st round pick.

And then Id take Orr and McClellan over Trawick and Levine at this point.

Basically I pick Mosley over Hill. smith over Lewis. Elam and brown are a basic wash up til now... Maybe Elam a bit worse bc his lack of contributions have actually hurt the team where Browns are just disappointing.

And id take Orr over Trawick, McLellan over Levine.

If you feel differently on any of those points I an interested to know which ones and why. And if you don't, then there really is no argument to be made for ILB being a bigger weakness.

Now an Elam bounce back and playing up to his 1st round status could tilt the scales and a Brooks healthy return and continuing to develop where he left off might be an equalizer if not push it completely over to the safety side.

But until we actually see it on the field in game situations I have to stick with my guns

[DomMcRaven]

Yea but my point was not only are the starters better at ILB but also for everything you can say about Brown you can say about Elam who was a 1st round pick.

And then Id take Orr and McClellan over Trawick and Levine at this point.

Basically I pick Mosley over Hill. smith over Lewis. Elam and brown are a basic wash up til now... Maybe Elam a bit worse bc his lack of contributions have actually hurt the team where Browns are just disappointing.

And id take Orr over Trawick, McLellan over Levine.

If you feel differently on any of those points I an interested to know which ones and why. And if you don't, then there really is no argument to be made for ILB being a bigger weakness.

Now an Elam bounce back and playing up to his 1st round status could tilt the scales and a Brooks healthy return and continuing to develop where he left off might be an equalizer if not push it completely over to the safety side.

But until we actually see it on the field in game situations I have to stick with my guns

But the difference between Elam and Brown is that at least Elam has playing time (albeit under certain cicrumstances). I agree about Mosley and Smith > Hill and Lewis. I also agree with McClellan > Trawick and Levine. However, I can't put Orr's name until his name is called onto the field. Sure he has potential and it's very likely that he'll be a better football player, but he's unproven. If Father Time does catch up to Smith early, maybe Orr comes in certain packages to be on the field with Mosley. That is, if he puts on a good showing in training camp and preseason.

 

Knocking wood, we may not have to rely on Trawick and Levine, but who's to say that they can't improve (to be fair I'll say the same with Orr and Brown)? I understand that they haven't been talked about in the "News and Notes" because that means they haven't done much to stand out. But with the playing time they got last year, you would think they have the work ethic and mindset of wanting to improve. But all in all, I agree with your last sentiment, we'll see what happens once training camp, preseason, and the regular season rolls around.

[Ravensfan23]

I get what you're saying and agree to an extent... But the comment on Flacco's presser and the media adding hype is a bit off.

Flacco did say Butlers racked up probably 1500 yards in a 3 day minicamp. That's what he actually said and that's all that the articles attributed to him as saying.

Flacco used the word "incredible" and Engram described Butler as "unbelievable" in regards to his level of play during the offseason. That's some pretty strong and lofty praise - and hype coming straight from the mouth of his QB and position coach. Neither one came anywhere near as positive when describing any other receivers play so far. So, to just give your standard coach speak for everyone else, and then to go out of your way to praise Butler with such powerful word choice (incredible, unbelievable) - you have to infer that Butler really did stand out far and above what anyone else did.

But any inferences about that equating to predictions of Butler being able to put up similar numbers over the course of a season were made by you - not constructed by the reporter(s).

I could understand where you're coming from if the article made point a and point b and nudged you toward connecting the dots... But "point b" I.e. Butler being able to put up a 1,500 yard season was never made or even hinted at.

So the hype machine isn't the media, in this case it's the reader.

 

I agree 100%. My intention was to say it's the way the taken by the fanbase and the volume of which it's put out. Yes Joe mentioned Butler and said exactly what the article implies. That praise turns into hype when we the fans take those words on a page and view them in our own way. So I agree 110%

[berad]

I'd rather hear praise for the young receivers than Joe be like 'well, Steve's here and...'

Too long we suffered with Hostler-led underachievers. Engram had guys being productive last year - even Torrey Smith - and he seems like an ascending coach.

[Ravensfan23]

I'd rather hear praise for the young receivers than Joe be like 'well, Steve's here and...'

Too long we suffered with Hostler-led underachievers. Engram had guys being productive last year - even Torrey Smith - and he seems like an ascending coach.

 

If these young guys play nearly as good as they are practicing right now, Engram will be in line for a OC position in 2-3 years. Especially if Harbs puts him in a position to either be involved in game planning, or be the guy that relays the play call to the players if Trestman decided to call plays from the booth. 

 

I remember Billick doing that for Mike Singletary. He relayed the defensive calls to the players while Nolan was in the both, then Harbs did it with Hostler a couple years back when Caldwell called plays from the booth. Bobby Engram is a very likeable guy, smart and appears to be a no excuses type of coach. I could definitely see him becoming a young coaching name to watch. 

[757RavensFan]

Now that we're in the off-season dead period again, with little to no updates on the players and team until training camp in 40 days, I'm hoping they all get healthy (Suggs lose weight) and they stay out of trouble.  Please and thank you!!

Edited June 19, 2015 by 757RavensFan

[Ravenseconbeast]

So I guess Butler's in line for #1 WR?

I don't have a problem with that. He can be our Victor Cruz any day!

[BmoreBird22]

So, I saw a RSR article that said Webb was getting beat and not looking strong, but then I watched that video of Webb today and he looked like he was moving really well and playing the ball well. Of course, that video did only show the highlights, but his movements were far more fluid and decisive in that video than in the past few seasons. 

 

Jimmy looked really good in his movement drills, also. Glad to see he's getting back on to the field.

[BmoreBird22]

Speaking of RSR, here's something on Brown for those who are wondering.

 

For the first time since offseason activities began, linebacker Arthur Brown stood out for much of practice with the first/second team defenses. Brown, who has been under scrutiny for his lack of development, had several key passes defensed today including two on Waller. Daryl Smith may be another year older this season, but the veteran linebacker moved with ease in pass defense. Smith dropped into coverage against Marlon Brown and made an outstanding play to break up a sure touchdown pass.

[DomMcRaven]

Well speaking of defensive players, any word on Za'Darius Smith and Carl Davis? Haven't heard anything from either of them?

[Sami84]

Well speaking of defensive players, any word on Za'Darius Smith and Carl Davis? Haven't heard anything from either of them?

True.. Haven't heard a single thing on carl davis.

[MTRavensFan]

I think the offense protected him alot last season as he was overmatched a few times. However, one thing that was never overmatched was his toughness. He had really good technique for the most part, but just didn't seem strong enough. I think a full NFL strength and conditioning programs paired with the teaching of Juan will do wonders for Hurst. 

 

On that note, much props to Juan Castillo, that guy took so much crap from the fanbase two years ago. But he's done a great job developing our young oline. Guys like KO, Wagner, Urschel and Hurst owe him a lot. Hell even Gino developed well enough to have another team trade for him. 

Gotta second that.

Time for some well-deserved Castillo love.

 

The O-Line now looks like the strongest group on the team going into this season.

[Cillmatic]

I still remember when the fans wanted to decapitate Castillo.

[Rav'n Maniac]

I still remember when the fans wanted to decapitate Castillo.

Yeah, I even gave up drinking his namesake rum for a while. Now I'm back on the wagon again with both.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Rav'n Maniac

[redlobster]

I still remember when the fans wanted to decapitate Castillo.

 

Could you blame them though? The Oline was atrocious then, now most of that blame belongs on Jah Reid, Gradkowski, etc.

[Static]

 When the season starts , Canty might be disappointed at where he is on the depth chart.