Too Early 2016 Prospect Watch

[ravefan52]

I think Deforest Buckner is probably one of the 5 best players in this draft, we just don't have a big need at DL. He would be an Ozzie type pick though.

Edited January 3, 2016 by ravefan52

[allblackraven]

To be fair, you may be asking too much. Suggs didn't do all of that from jump. It took him time to set the edge and even cover. I'm not trying to make you look bad here but this is the kind of thinking that's wrong today. It's not just with fans but also teams. We've become so impatient at times that we expect prospects to come out with unfair expectations for rookie contributions.

I agree that Carl Lawson doesn't have that long speed you want. He doesn't catch up like I'd hope he would. That said, he's very fast off the ball and that's honestly more important to me.

Yeah, of course it's crazy to expect all of the above from college player but Lawson is not a monster-type guy in any of the categories like Sizzle was coming out to warrant top 10 pick IMO.

[Ravenskid52752]

I think Deforest Buckner is probably one of the 5 best players in this draft, we just don't have a big need at DL. He would be an Ozzie type pick though.

hey if he's the best player on the broad ozzie might I mean the jets just did that with Leonard Williams which they didn't need him but since he was there why not lol I mean a line of Buckner, Williams and Timmy with Davis, Urban, Guy coming off the bench jeez.

[ravensnick]

I think Deforest Buckner is probably one of the 5 best players in this draft, we just don't have a big need at DL. He would be an Ozzie type pick though.

My big board goes:

1. Tunsil

2. Stanley

3. Bosa

4. Buckner

[GrimCoconut]

Yeah, of course it's crazy to expect all of the above from college player but Lawson is not a monster-type guy in any of the categories like Sizzle was coming out to warrant top 10 pick IMO.

I honestly haven't seen enough to say. I liked what I saw from him so far. I'm not sure he's worth a top 10 pick atm either, but I will say his first step is really fast and he does use his hands really really well. Did I mention he has a really nice first step? Lol.

I'm guessing your concern surrounding his speed is due to finish and get to the QB after he initially beats his man? I noticed this quite a bit at least. It certainly made me pause; however, he's beating his man. He's getting to the QB and forcing him out of the pocket. That's a big deal. Where he struggles is finishing and getting the sack. He seems to slow down after he beats his man.

[ravensnick]

Yeah, of course it's crazy to expect all of the above from college player but Lawson is not a monster-type guy in any of the categories like Sizzle was coming out to warrant top 10 pick IMO.

 

Agreed. Suggs was one of the best defensive ends in college history. He had like 24 sacks in his last year of college. Only reason he didn't go higher than us at 10 was he ran a slow (4.8) 40 time, which raised some athleticism and work ethic concerns. Nothing against Lawson; he is a fine prospect, but I still wouldn't call him a surefire top 10 without injuries.

[JoeyFlex5]

I want to see pass rusher get more to the QB and actually make sacks. That would be a sign that he can at least apply pressure at next level. I don't think he lacks in technique but he is not consistently using it. To me he definitely lacks in speed as well. I also want to see him drop in coverage better and more consistently set the edge. He's not great against the run either. If we're going to spend top 10 pick on OLB, I want to see him do all that. We need to find replacement for Suggs in next couple of drafts.

I'm not drafting an olb high with the intention of making him a coverage guy. In a 3-4 coverage should be a total after thought for the olb and the primary task should be getting to the qb and holding down the corner in the run. And like I said that qb was bailing out tunsil, he made some incredible escapes on 2 dropbacks that would have been definite sacks if not for a ridiculous effort by the qb, can't always hold it against a player when an opponent simply makes a great play.

[allblackraven]

I honestly haven't seen enough to say. I liked what I saw from him so far. I'm not sure he's worth a top 10 pick atm either, but I will say his first step is really fast and he does use his hands really really well. Did I mention he has a really nice first step? Lol.

I'm guessing your concern surrounding his speed is due to finish and get to the QB after he initially beats his man? I noticed this quite a bit at least. It certainly made me pause; however, he's beating his man. He's getting to the QB and forcing him out of the pocket. That's a big deal. Where he struggles is finishing and getting the sack. He seems to slow down after he beats his man.

You are guessing right and his conditioning might very well be the problem in addition to that long, closing speed. Also on running plays I noticed that more often than not he won't make an effort to get out of the block and help with stuffing the run.

 

Having said all that, it would seem that I absolutely hate this guy, which is far from the truth. He is good but we can do much better in first round where we are going to pick. I'm slowly adjusting to reality of the situation on our O line (Monroe's contract, Jensen's improvement) and realizing that OT most likely isn't going to be our day 1 selection. Considering the needs we have, I'm starting to lean toward Treadwell being likely the best / safest choice.

[allblackraven]

I'm not drafting an olb high with the intention of making him a coverage guy. In a 3-4 coverage should be a total after thought for the olb and the primary task should be getting to the qb and holding down the corner in the run. And like I said that qb was bailing out tunsil, he made some incredible escapes on 2 dropbacks that would have been definite sacks if not for a ridiculous effort by the qb, can't always hold it against a player when an opponent simply makes a great play.

Sure but I don't think that beating a tackle few times a game to just pressure QB is enough if you don't add something else to the plate. And it's not just that game - all season, when he played, he hasn't sacked QB once (Ole Miss game 1 sack is his sole one in '15).

[Inqui]

You are guessing right and his conditioning might very well be the problem in addition to that long, closing speed. Also on running plays I noticed that more often than not he won't make an effort to get out of the block and help with stuffing the run.

 

Having said all that, it would seem that I absolutely hate this guy, which is far from the truth. He is good but we can do much better in first round where we are going to pick. I'm slowly adjusting to reality of the situation on our O line (Monroe's contract, Jensen's improvement) and realizing that OT most likely isn't going to be our day 1 selection. Considering the needs we have, I'm starting to lean toward Treadwell being likely the best / safest choice.

A lot still has to happen (being that we have no idea how FA will pan out), but Tunsil playing a blinder yesterday and seeing Stanley pick up hype on the 49ers forum of all places means I'm preparing to give up on either OT. I've held the rank of Tank Commander these past few weeks, but I'm more or less on board now with beating the Bengals and taking Treadwell in the top 15.

 

He probably won't dictate highlight reels, but I think he'll be a fantastic pro in the AFCN.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Inqui

[allblackraven]

A lot still has to happen (being that we have no idea how FA will pan out), but Tunsil playing a blinder yesterday and seeing Stanley pick up hype on the 49ers forum of all places means I'm preparing to give up on either OT. I've held the rank of Tank Commander these past few weeks, but I'm more or less on board now with beating the Bengals and taking Treadwell in the top 15.

 

He probably won't dictate highlight reels, but I think he'll be a fantastic pro in the AFCN.

I think we all have fairly good grasp on how will FA pan out (talking in salary cap terms).

[JoeyFlex5]

A lot still has to happen (being that we have no idea how FA will pan out), but Tunsil playing a blinder yesterday and seeing Stanley pick up hype on the 49ers forum of all places means I'm preparing to give up on either OT. I've held the rank of Tank Commander these past few weeks, but I'm more or less on board now with beating the Bengals and taking Treadwell in the top 15.

He probably won't dictate highlight reels, but I think he'll be a fantastic pro in the AFCN.

how about lose to the Bengals and take treadwell? The first round is no longer a concern for me, now it's all about staying high In The 2nd round lol

[Inqui]

how about lose to the Bengals and take treadwell? The first round is no longer a concern for me, now it's all about staying high In The 2nd round lol

I'd imagine there's a good chance Treadwell's on the board whether we're at 8 or 12. And since it's all the same I'd rather just beat the Bengals tbh. And if we do somehow win, I'd be on board for one of Jack, A'Shawn or Buckner as well (and one of those two falling isn't out of the question imo). I'm watching Carl Lawson tape atm and I wouldn't mind him either. For all the talk about what a crappy class this is, we're still in line for some good players.

 

I understand your concern about our spot in the second round (and beyond), but I think those spots will more or less take care of themselves.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Inqui

[regz1997]

Yo regz1997 is back after forum hypersleep lol... What's the WRs we're crushing on? Seems we are a little behind in that category considering all the talent at that position in the AFC North

[regz1997]

I think we all have fairly good grasp on how will FA pan out (talking in salary cap terms).

1. Flacco restructures his contract

2. K.O. comes back

3. We sign some vets that will probably have a major injury within the next two years

Edited January 3, 2016 by regz1997

[Inqui]

Yo regz1997 is back after forum hypersleep lol... What's the WRs we're crushing on? Seems we are a little behind in that category considering all the talent at that position in the AFC North

Corey Coleman, Tyler Boyd and Laquan Treadwell are the big topics atm. Josh Docton was, but he kinda fell away with his wrist injury but he'll be back when the combine stuff begins. Beyond the day one/fringe day two guys, Travin Dural and Sterling Sheppard are getting the most air time atm, and I think De'Runnya Wilson is an under-the-radar guy who may climb before the draft.

[Wildabeast88]

How do you guys feel about Noah Spence was great at Ohio St then some drug problems but has cleaned up had a good year this season but use a 2nd or 3rd to pick him up as a pass rusher OLB

[GrimCoconut]

How do you guys feel about Noah Spence was great at Ohio St then some drug problems but has cleaned up had a good year this season but use a 2nd or 3rd to pick him up as a pass rusher OLB

That guy is an absolute monster. I'd love him here if we want him. I don't know about his background but I don't personally remove players for this stuff. It's hard for me to vet this stuff so I can't give a true opinion. I just go based off the player and what I hear. 

[Wildabeast88]

That guy is an absolute monster. I'd love him here if we want him. I don't know about his background but I don't personally remove players for this stuff. It's hard for me to vet this stuff so I can't give a true opinion. I just go based off the player and what I hear.

He had an ecstasy addiction who suspended from Ohio St then Big 10 kicked him out he took time to get himself right then said watching Ohio St win championship last year pushed him to want to excel and be a big time player and stay clean

[GrimCoconut]

He had an ecstasy addiction who suspended from Ohio St then Big 10 kicked him out he took time to get himself right then said watching Ohio St win championship last year pushed him to want to excel and be a big time player and stay clean

Yeah, but it's hard to say whether or not that's lip service or change. I have no way of vetting the reality of that statement because I can't interview the kid. I'd take him, though. He's really talented. I think the Ravens and other teams likely would avoid him until the 3rd just because of the flags, maybe even the 4th. 

[BmoreBird22]

I'll give you that lol but a first 2 rounds like that would have the analysts smashing their keyboards trying to post the first Ozzie bashing blog because they took less glamorous prospects. Like when Jerry was bashed for taking travis Frederick, dude is a bona fide stud now and has lived up to that draft stock, I'd see that kinda draft in the same light

To be fair, at the time, most people saw him as the best center, but a late second to mid third round prospect.

[BmoreBird22]

Really do not like Leonard Floyd as a prospect, but I don't think A'shawn Robinson is getting enough hype. However, Robinson might go back to school for his Master's, so we'll see if he declares.

[JoeyFlex5]

I'd imagine there's a good chance Treadwell's on the board whether we're at 8 or 12. And since it's all the same I'd rather just beat the Bengals tbh. And if we do somehow win, I'd be on board for one of Jack, A'Shawn or Buckner as well (and one of those two falling isn't out of the question imo). I'm watching Carl Lawson tape atm and I wouldn't mind him either. For all the talk about what a crappy class this is, we're still in line for some good players.

I understand your concern about our spot in the second round (and beyond), but I think those spots will more or less take care of themselves.

treadwell may have become my guy for the first, I think I'm convinced he is the consensus top wr for a reason and it's legit lol. In the 2nd though I fear the difference between 8 and 12 could be huge.

An interesting combination for our defense would be buckner and a guy like ngakoue or lee in the 2nd, that's a dominant edge pairing and could be the cornerstone 2 players. Also if we were to take Ramsey, I would want us to trade back into the first for any of the first round cbs if they fall to the 20s, whether it be vh3, Apple, or Alexander, if we take Ramsey I would want to double down and get a real coverage db, to allow Ramsey to do what he does best, I wouldn't wanna risk depending on him to be a routine cover man

[52520Andrew]

Really do not like Leonard Floyd as a prospect, but I don't think A'shawn Robinson is getting enough hype. However, Robinson might go back to school for his Master's, so we'll see if he declares.

Agreed on both, Robinson is a freak. I think the reason we don't hear about him more is Williams and our overall depth on the D-line.

[Inqui]

treadwell may have become my guy for the first, I think I'm convinced he is the consensus top wr for a reason and it's legit lol. In the 2nd though I fear the difference between 8 and 12 could be huge.

An interesting combination for our defense would be buckner and a guy like ngakoue or lee in the 2nd, that's a dominant edge pairing and could be the cornerstone 2 players. Also if we were to take Ramsey, I would want us to trade back into the first for any of the first round cbs if they fall to the 20s, whether it be vh3, Apple, or Alexander, if we take Ramsey I would want to double down and get a real coverage db, to allow Ramsey to do what he does best, I wouldn't wanna risk depending on him to be a routine cover man

Tbh his Auburn tape may have convinced me more than his bowl game yesterday - he looked great in every way without actually setting the game alight (if that makes sense). A lot depends on exactly where we pick, but I could be sold on him displacing Stanley as my guy.

 

WalterFootball's latest mock has us taking A'Shawn Robinson as a Canty replacement. I initially laughed it off for a few reasons (letting Stanley slip to the Giants not least among them), but a guy like him would make sense too. You chuck him and Williams on the DL together and that basically takes the run game away on its own. And like I say, I'd almost be willing to bet a good chunk of money on either him or Buckner being around no matter where our final spot in the order is. Then like you say, if Ngakoue or someone to that effect is there in the second, that's suddenly a talented enough front seven to get us back on a Super Bowl run if we stay healthy enough.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Inqui

[allblackraven]

Agreed on both, Robinson is a freak. I think the reason we don't hear about him more is Williams and our overall depth on the D-line.

It would be bit of a letdown for me if we don't take some of these Alabama front 7 boys, regardless of our D line depth. Robinson, Jonathan Allen and Reggie Ragland are all great and we could definitely use them. Just imagine BW, Jernigan and Robinson on the line. Ridiculous. Ragland might be ideal successor to D. Smith, with the added bonus of good play in coverage.

[Inqui]

Really do not like Leonard Floyd as a prospect, but I don't think A'shawn Robinson is getting enough hype. However, Robinson might go back to school for his Master's, so we'll see if he declares.

Aside from being surprised about his Masters, I agree on all counts. Classic 3-tech.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Inqui

[GrimCoconut]

About time Robinson gets some love

[JoeyFlex5]

I mocked Robinson 3rd overall to the chargers a week ago and I was scoffed at. Smh lol

Edited January 3, 2016 by JoeyFlex5

[allblackraven]

I mocked Robinson 3rd overall to the chargers a week ago and I was scoffed at. Smh lol

That's because you let Chargers take him.