Too Early 2016 Prospect Watch

[GrimCoconut]

I am really in love with Pharoh Cooper. He hasn't taken off like I thought he would but he has been great considering his circumstances. SC has been shuffling between 3 quarterbacks and Pharoh has gotten the short end of the stick because of it. It also doesn't help that he is the only offensive weapon they have. The point out of all of that is that I would not mind picking him up with a 4th or even a 3rd. 

Yeah, I like Cooper a lot as well. He's a really underrated WR for the most part. 

[Baltimore RAYvens]

Has anyone watched Kamalei Correa? Junior from Boise State. Plays DE and seems to have a knack for getting in the backfield. Haven't heard much buzz around him but word is he's getting second-day grades and sounds likely to enter the draft. He's a bit under-sized at 6' 3" and ~250lbs, but seems to have great speed and surprising power along with some promise in coverage. I like what I've seen from him so far 

[nishadrahman13]

Another prospect I think is not getting enough hype as a potential 2nd round steal is Desmond King. Hes been mentioned before, but watching tape on Tyler Boyd, the man who stood out was King. Absolutely handled him and most importantly, had 2 picks on the day. He set a high school record for picks with 29 in Michigan and has only continued that success in college. We need that turnover ability in our secondary, and I think he can provide that. Not convinced he's immediate impact starter, but situational turnover guy, key special teamer, and building block to a better Ravens future.

[GrimCoconut]

Another prospect I think is not getting enough hype as a potential 2nd round steal is Desmond King. Hes been mentioned before, but watching tape on Tyler Boyd, the man who stood out was King. Absolutely handled him and most importantly, had 2 picks on the day. He set a high school record for picks with 29 in Michigan and has only continued that success in college. We need that turnover ability in our secondary, and I think he can provide that. Not convinced he's immediate impact starter, but situational turnover guy, key special teamer, and building block to a better Ravens future.

I really like King but the times I watched him I saw games where he failed to play the ball and played the WR. I'll be watching him and all his tape soon.

[Maryland]

(inspired by the "where do we pick" thread, but seemed off-topic)

 

If I was ranking Mosley and Jack coming out of college, I would have Jack above Mosley as a prospect mainly because I value coverage skills over run-stopping skills (plus Mosley had medical concerns as a prospect). Mosley is turning into a Patrick Willis run-defender (who can't cover too well), but we need a Navorro Bowman next to him to handle RBs and TEs (and I contended Bowman was the better of the two just before his knee injury). I think Jack could be the Bowman to Mosley's Willis.

 

The only problem I see is that Pees (if he is still DC) doesn't seem to value hybrid LB/S types like Jack, while other teams use them as every-down players. Jack will probably struggle to stop the run in the NFL unless he puts on some weight, which might then hurt his coverage skills. Pees seems to value traditional run-stopping LBs more than ones who can cover. If he valued hybrids at all, he would have found a use for A.Brown. I could see someone like Bowles valuing Jack highly because he is similar to the hybrid S/LB he had in Arizona. But it's a copycat league, so maybe other teams will begin to see the value, maybe even our next DC.

[January J]

(inspired by the "where do we pick" thread, but seemed off-topic)

 

If I was ranking Mosley and Jack coming out of college, I would have Jack above Mosley as a prospect mainly because I value coverage skills over run-stopping skills (plus Mosley had medical concerns as a prospect). Mosley is turning into a Patrick Willis run-defender (who can't cover too well), but we need a Navorro Bowman next to him to handle RBs and TEs (and I contended Bowman was the better of the two just before his knee injury). I think Jack could be the Bowman to Mosley's Willis.

 

The only problem I see is that Pees (if he is still DC) doesn't seem to value hybrid LB/S types like Jack, while other teams use them as every-down players. Jack will probably struggle to stop the run in the NFL unless he puts on some weight, which might then hurt his coverage skills. Pees seems to value traditional run-stopping LBs more than ones who can cover. If he valued hybrids at all, he would have found a use for A.Brown. I could see someone like Bowles valuing Jack highly because he is similar to the hybrid S/LB he had in Arizona. But it's a copycat league, so maybe other teams will begin to see the value, maybe even our next DC.

I agree completely. " if he is still the DC" is the key statement there.

[sflegend89]

Just watched VH3 vs Alabama last year.. Amari Cooper took his lunch money, I expected Hargreaves to hold his own a little better but I do realize he was only 19 at the time. Obviously Cooper is a high end WR in the NFL this year so it doesn't turn me off to taking VH3 at all but I am realizing he's not going to step in day 1 and just be a shutdown #1 corner like you might expect out of a top 5 pick.

[Tru11]

(inspired by the "where do we pick" thread, but seemed off-topic)

 

If I was ranking Mosley and Jack coming out of college, I would have Jack above Mosley as a prospect mainly because I value coverage skills over run-stopping skills (plus Mosley had medical concerns as a prospect). Mosley is turning into a Patrick Willis run-defender (who can't cover too well), but we need a Navorro Bowman next to him to handle RBs and TEs (and I contended Bowman was the better of the two just before his knee injury). I think Jack could be the Bowman to Mosley's Willis.

 

The only problem I see is that Pees (if he is still DC) doesn't seem to value hybrid LB/S types like Jack, while other teams use them as every-down players. Jack will probably struggle to stop the run in the NFL unless he puts on some weight, which might then hurt his coverage skills. Pees seems to value traditional run-stopping LBs more than ones who can cover. If he valued hybrids at all, he would have found a use for A.Brown. I could see someone like Bowles valuing Jack highly because he is similar to the hybrid S/LB he had in Arizona. But it's a copycat league, so maybe other teams will begin to see the value, maybe even our next DC.

 

brown cant cover and is only good when he blitzes.....

[Cillmatic]

Just watched VH3 vs Alabama last year.. Amari Cooper took his lunch money, I expected Hargreaves to hold his own a little better but I do realize he was only 19 at the time. Obviously Cooper is a high end WR in the NFL this year so it doesn't turn me off to taking VH3 at all but I am realizing he's not going to step in day 1 and just be a shutdown #1 corner like you might expect out of a top 5 pick.

He allowed like 15 yards and a TD, not that bad.

[PurpleCity5]

He allowed like 15 yards and a TD, not that bad.

Cooper likely would have bullied Ramsey IMO. Dude set records at Alabama. Anyways, yeah, he didn't have a bad performance when he matched up against Cooper. 

Edited December 10, 2015 by PurpleCity5

[JoeyFlex5]

Cooper likely would have bullied Ramsey IMO. Dude set records at Alabama. Anyways, yeah, he didn't have a bad performance when he matched up against Cooper.

I feel Ramsey vs Cooper would have been a matchup that really hurt Ramseys status if it were to happen. Ramseys aggression and undisciplined play style would have gotten him torched against someone as refined and disciplined as cooper

[PurpleCity5]

I feel Ramsey vs Cooper would have been a matchup that really hurt Ramseys status if it were to happen. Ramseys aggression and undisciplined play style would have gotten him torched against someone as refined and disciplined as cooper

Yeah I agree and that's what scares me about Ramsey. He's fairly refined as a CB but those problems that he has are things that stick around for a while. Sometimes its just natural. I do feel that as a CB you need to be disciplined and that's not how Ramsey looks like sometimes. We have tons of guys who are undisciplined at the secondary right now, even Will Hill himself is caught playing undisciplined at times. 

[January J]

Yeah I agree and that's what scares me about Ramsey. He's fairly refined as a CB but those problems that he has are things that stick around for a while. Sometimes its just natural. I do feel that as a CB you need to be disciplined and that's not how Ramsey looks like sometimes. We have tons of guys who are undisciplined at the secondary right now, even Will Hill himself is caught playing undisciplined at times.

very good point. We are lacking discipline big time on the entire defense, so another undisciplined player in the secondary isn't a wise move IMO. That's the main reason we have gotten burnt deep and given up big plays all year. Who do you think will be the most disciplined, refined db in the draft?

[JoeyFlex5]

very good point. We are lacking discipline big time on the entire defense, so another undisciplined player in the secondary isn't a wise move IMO. That's the main reason we have gotten burnt deep and given up big plays all year. Who do you think will be the most disciplined, refined db in the draft?

I think that's obviously vh3. The best thing about him is his incredible technique, patience, and discipline

[PurpleCity5]

very good point. We are lacking discipline big time on the entire defense, so another undisciplined player in the secondary isn't a wise move IMO. That's the main reason we have gotten burnt deep and given up big plays all year. Who do you think will be the most disciplined, refined db in the draft?

We ask our CBs to play off-man coverage and that's not a strong suit for Ramsey. Most CBs are better at Man than Zone in College, but I really question how good he'll be there since most of the time he's sticking a WR close up. I think Hargreaves is the much, much better fit. He thrives in Off-man coverage, one of the best I've seen, which is what we do tend to do. We need to be able to play off and read-and-react. I feel that he fits us just to well. I think people are getting too carried away with Ramsey's measurable's IMO. It's not the end of the world if Hargreaves is 5-11 or what not. Of course if you prefer Ramsey that's fine. I like him too. I just like Hargreaves more. 

[DomMcRaven]

I think that's obviously vh3. The best thing about him is his incredible technique, patience, and discipline

We ask our CBs to play off-man coverage and that's not a strong suit for Ramsey. Most CBs are better at Man than Zone in College, but I really question how good he'll be there since most of the time he's sticking a WR close up. I think Hargreaves is the much, much better fit. He thrives in Off-man coverage, one of the best I've seen, which is what we do tend to do. We need to be able to play off and read-and-react. I feel that he fits us just to well. I think people are getting too carried away with Ramsey's measurable's IMO. It's not the end of the world if Hargreaves is 5-11 or what not. Of course if you prefer Ramsey that's fine. I like him too. I just like Hargreaves more. 

Sounds good to me. I don't really watch college football like that so i defer to you guys. Would you consider him a ballhawk?

[Clmraven]

Another prospect I think is not getting enough hype as a potential 2nd round steal is Desmond King. Hes been mentioned before, but watching tape on Tyler Boyd, the man who stood out was King. Absolutely handled him and most importantly, had 2 picks on the day. He set a high school record for picks with 29 in Michigan and has only continued that success in college. We need that turnover ability in our secondary, and I think he can provide that. Not convinced he's immediate impact starter, but situational turnover guy, key special teamer, and building block to a better Ravens future.

I like him but not as a second rounder, I don't even really like him as a corner really, I think he'd be better off trying out the safety postion because he looks pretty good in run support and can obviously make plays on the ball, but he allows way to much separation in man coverage to be a starting corner in the NFL IMO.

[Clmraven]

Sounds good to me. I don't really watch college football like that so i defer to you guys. Would you consider him a ballhawk?

I wouldn't say he is the bait the QB type of ballhawk, he's so good in coverage he rarely gets targeted so most if not all of his INTs this year came off of tipped balls but he has pretty good hands so if he has the opportunity to make a play he usually will, I mean he even lines up at WR sometimes.

[RaineV1]

Yeah I agree and that's what scares me about Ramsey. He's fairly refined as a CB but those problems that he has are things that stick around for a while. Sometimes its just natural. I do feel that as a CB you need to be disciplined and that's not how Ramsey looks like sometimes. We have tons of guys who are undisciplined at the secondary right now, even Will Hill himself is caught playing undisciplined at times. 

This is a good reason not to take Ramsey. It's okay to have guy in the secondary that's a risk taker as long as he does sometimes makes big plays. But both Ramsey and Will Hill back there could be bad.

[PurpleCity5]

Sounds good to me. I don't really watch college football like that so i defer to you guys. Would you consider him a ballhawk?

I think Ramsey has the skill-sets to be a ball-hawk. You can more people here, there are people here who have watched Jalen Ramsey more than myself and really know their stuff. 

[sflegend89]

He allowed like 15 yards and a TD, not that bad.

 

Cooper had 200 yds and 3 TD's on the game, VH3 wasn't responsible for the bulk of that but he definitely gave up way more than 15 yds.. Cooper also scored a 2nd TD on Hargreaves and it got called back on a questionable OPI call. Cooper definitely got the better of the 1 on 1's..

 

But like I said Cooper is arguably a top 10 NFL WR already, doesn't concern me that much but I think expectations do need to be tempered on VH3 a little more.

[DomMcRaven]

I think Ramsey has the skill-sets to be a ball-hawk. You can more people here, there are people here who have watched Jalen Ramsey more than myself and really know their stuff. 

Honestly, I think he could be based on what I've read from other people. I follow A LOT of threads (or topics, whatever) just to keep up.

[JoeyFlex5]

Sounds good to me. I don't really watch college football like that so i defer to you guys. Would you consider him a ballhawk?

more of a guy who qbs just ignore because they eliminate one wr by sticking like glue

[January J]

We ask our CBs to play off-man coverage and that's not a strong suit for Ramsey. Most CBs are better at Man than Zone in College, but I really question how good he'll be there since most of the time he's sticking a WR close up. I think Hargreaves is the much, much better fit. He thrives in Off-man coverage, one of the best I've seen, which is what we do tend to do. We need to be able to play off and read-and-react. I feel that he fits us just to well. I think people are getting too carried away with Ramsey's measurable's IMO. It's not the end of the world if Hargreaves is 5-11 or what not. Of course if you prefer Ramsey that's fine. I like him too. I just like Hargreaves more.

but again it's go back to the question of whether or not pees will be back here next year. If not we may see a new dc who won't have our guys playing off man coverage so much. I think a lot of people expect him to be fired but I think for once we end up keeping both our oc and dc just to have some continuity for once. The ppl calling for trestman to be fired IMO are nuts. Considering what he's had to work with and the amount of injuries he's still got us as the tenth best offense in the league. I'd say that's pretty good. His play calling has been questionable at times but the more he gets comfortable here the better he will do.

[January J]

I think that's obviously vh3. The best thing about him is his incredible technique, patience, and discipline

how much better do you think vh3 is compared to Marcus peters first coming out? Because peters has had a phenomenal first year and has played pretty much lights out. If vh3 lives up to the hype I can only imagine how great that would be for us.

[JoeyFlex5]

how much better do you think vh3 is compared to Marcus peters first coming out? Because peters has had a phenomenal first year and has played pretty much lights out. If vh3 lives up to the hype I can only imagine how great that would be for us.

I haven't seen much of Peters but I was a huge fan of his. I think they are quite different. Peters is more a tone setter type of guy, physical, has a swagger about him, gets in the opponent's head and plays hard but also reckless at times, vh3s game is a lot more "tightened up" so to speak, he handles his business by just being very good, he doesn't need to rough guys up or risk a taunting call to be the best player on the field. Vh3 I think is in the running for DROY easily, and if he can get some picks then he will win it, I think he can be the next revis, maybe even better if he can bulk up and keep his burst, I just don't see Peters I the same light Edited December 11, 2015 by JoeyFlex5

[DomMcRaven]

more of a guy who qbs just ignore because they eliminate one wr by sticking like glue

I'm on board then. 

[January J]

I haven't seen much of Peters but I was a huge fan of his. I think they are quite different. Peters is more a tone setter type of guy, physical, has a swagger about him, gets in the opponent's head and plays hard but also reckless at times, vh3s game is a lot more "tightened up" so to speak, he handles his business by just being very good, he doesn't need to rough guys up or risk a taunting call to be the best player on the field. Vh3 I think is in the running for DROY easily, and if he can get some picks then he will win it, I think he can be the next revis, maybe even better if he can bulk up and keep his burst, I just don't see Peters I the same light

from what I've seen from peters he seems to have matured a lot and has become very disciplined. Granted I've only seen a few games of theirs this season- but every game I watched ironically he had multiple interceptions and just played the ball perfectly. Don't hold me to it but I think he actually had 2 pick 6s in his first 2 games played. Just makes you wonder how differently things would have played out had he fallen to us. But like I said if vh3 can be even better than him and play for us I'd be absolutely thrilled.

Watched the award show last night and Desmond king won the Jim Thorpe best defensive back award. Not sure if Vernon was robbed or not but boy does that kid have some crazy hair.

[Clmraven]

from what I've seen from peters he seems to have matured a lot and has become very disciplined. Granted I've only seen a few games of theirs this season- but every game I watched ironically he had multiple interceptions and just played the ball perfectly. Don't hold me to it but I think he actually had 2 pick 6s in his first 2 games played. Just makes you wonder how differently things would have played out had he fallen to us. But like I said if vh3 can be even better than him and play for us I'd be absolutely thrilled.

Watched the award show last night and Desmond king won the Jim Thorpe best defensive back award. Not sure if Vernon was robbed or not but boy does that kid have some crazy hair.

I think VH3 could be a better CB than Peters, but they are different type of players, I think VH3 is better in coverage Peters has made a lot of plays on the ball this year with INTs and Pdef but he also gave up 7 touchdowns so far.

[January J]

I think VH3 could be a better CB than Peters, but they are different type of players, I think VH3 is better in coverage Peters has made a lot of plays on the ball this year with INTs and Pdef but he also gave up 7 touchdowns so far.

wow I didn't realize that. I expect him to give up a few in his rookie year but 7 is quite a bit.