2015 Draft a Franchise: Discussion Thread

[regz1997]

I find this Luck discussion interesting. I agree that all the elite guys of the past are fading away, and a new elite class is stepping up. Andrew Luck is the best of that new class, but I would not go far enough to call him elite just yet. He is stepping into that role, but he hasn't completely yet. He needs a little more time to be able to read the field like Tom Brady or Drew Brees.

[hn68wb4]

Don't get why theres hate for the Robert Quinn pick, he's easily deserving of a top 10 pick considering Rodgers and Flacco are gone. He was my target at 10

[52520Andrew]

How is he overrated or not elite?

 

1. 24 turnovers last year

 

2. 1 big year of production so far(yeah more will come but he needs to establish himself, the top guys do it just about every year)

 

3. No Super Bowl and a 9 -12 TD - INT ratio in the postseason

 

4. He has had some fairly deflating(sorry, couldn't resist) performances against NE, all great players have that road block that they have to get through before they get to the top, same story with Luck.

 

I think he is on the cusp of being there honestly(which is why he is my #2 player) and could get there as early as this year but he isn't there yet for me. There are still 5 guys I would take over him at the QB position. I won't go naming the guys outside of Rodgers and Brady I would take over him right now as there are some still on the board(and for good reason in a couple cases as they have some longevity concerns) but he isn't in that top tier for me.

 

Also a side note that doesn't have anything to do with this really but Flacco has a 24 - 4 TD - INT ratio in the postseason since 2010 and a 21 - 3 one since 2011. Just throwing that out there in case anyone was interested

[Mt. Crushmore]

Don't get why theres hate for the Robert Quinn pick, he's easily deserving of a top 10 pick considering Rodgers and Flacco are gone. He was my target at 10

 

He only went 17th last year off his 19 sack year 

[regz1997]

He only went 17th last year off his 19 sack year

Pick #8 is just too steep a price for him...

[BmoreBird22]

1. 24 turnovers last year

 

2. 1 big year of production so far(yeah more will come but he needs to establish himself, the top guys do it just about every year)

 

3. No Super Bowl and a 9 -12 TD - INT ratio in the postseason

 

4. He has had some fairly deflating(sorry, couldn't resist) performances against NE, all great players have that road block that they have to get through before they get to the top, same story with Luck.

 

I think he is on the cusp of being there honestly(which is why he is my #2 player) and could get there as early as this year but he isn't there yet for me. There are still 5 guys I would take over him at the QB position. I won't go naming the guys outside of Rodgers and Brady I would take over him right now as there are some still on the board(and for good reason in a couple cases as they have some longevity concerns) but he isn't in that top tier for me.

 

Also a side note that doesn't have anything to do with this really but Flacco has a 24 - 4 TD - INT ratio in the postseason since 2010 and a 21 - 3 one since 2011. Just throwing that out there in case anyone was interested

1. He's asked to throw over 600 times, has one of the worst interior offensive lines in the NFL (if not the worst), and has no reliable running game or defense. Basically, he's asked to be the centerpiece of that offense. Remember 2013 Joe Flacco when he had a terrible line, no run game, and was asked to do just about everything? Andrew Luck's interception percentage last year was .4% higher than Flacco's. As for the fumbles, consider he is the most hit and sacked quarterback in the entire league since 2012. And honestly, it's not even close. 

 

2. Numbers aren't everything, but he's a third year quarterback. I mean, what do you expect? And I'm pretty sure Luck set a rookie record in 2012 for most passing yardage. 

 

3. Know what Joe Flacco's TD:INT ratio in years one through two and one through three were? 1:7 and 3:9 respectively. Yeah, Joe Flacco has been stellar lately, but it was hardly ever that way in his first three years. On the flip side, Luck has averaged 304 yards while Flacco only had 131 yards per game on average, yet he still had a 3:9 TD:INT. Not that Flacco got a Super Bowl in his first three years, which is a team effort so I wouldn't even use that as an argument. 

 

4. Bill Bellichek is one of the greatest defensive minds this game has seen. Given how many holes there are in the Colts offense, it's not a terribly big surprise to see that he's been able to expose it. Hey, even Manning had trouble with the Patriots. Does anyone remember Flacco throwing for like 34 yards and an interception against the Patriots?

 

Something that people don't seem to realize is that in Luck's rookie season, he had a turnover rate of like 60% in terms of his roster. He gained 15 new players (including Luck) and lost 15. He also had a revamped coaching staff and lost his head coach during the season. His receiving corp consisted of three rookie wide receivers, a perennial disappointment in Donnie Avery, Reggie Wayne, and two rookie tight ends. His running game? His best back was rookie Vick Ballard. So, basically, the skill positions featured seven rookies. So, SEVEN of the most important positions on that offense were rookies. Let that sink in. He basically built that offense up. 

And he wasn't like most rookies who get eased into the action, like a Rodgers or Phillip Rivers who get to sit for a while or even Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, or Russell Wilson who aren't asked to do too much. No, he was thrown right into the fire and asked to put that offense on his shoulders and carry that team. And what did he do? Just go for over 4,000 yards and lead his team to and 11-5 record and the playoffs after going 2-14 the year before.

 

Luck is truly one of the few quarterbacks who makes the players around him better and he is an elite quarterback.

And I know a lot of people like to give a pass to Flacco for working with Cameron and having a lot of new coordinators, but Luck had Arians (Cameron clone) and has had a new coordinator by year two. 

Edited May 11, 2015 by BmoreBird22

[regz1997]

1. He's asked to throw over 600 times, has one of the worst interior offensive lines in the NFL (if not the worst), and has no reliable running game or defense. Basically, he's asked to be the centerpiece of that offense. Remember 2013 Joe Flacco when he had a terrible line, no run game, and was asked to do just about everything? Andrew Luck's interception percentage last year was .4% higher than Flacco's. As for the fumbles, consider he is the most hit and sacked quarterback in the entire league since 2012. And honestly, it's not even close. 

 

2. Numbers aren't everything, but he's a third year quarterback. I mean, what do you expect? And I'm pretty sure Luck set a rookie record in 2012 for most passing yardage. 

 

3. Know what Joe Flacco's TD:INT ratio in years one through two and one through three were? 1:7 and 3:9 respectively. Yeah, Joe Flacco has been stellar lately, but it was hardly ever that way in his first three years. On the flip side, Luck has averaged 304 yards while Flacco only had 131 yards per game on average, yet he still had a 3:9 TD:INT. Not that Flacco got a Super Bowl in his first three years, which is a team effort so I wouldn't even use that as an argument. 

 

4. Bill Bellichek is one of the greatest defensive minds this game has seen. Given how many holes there are in the Colts offense, it's not a terribly big surprise to see that he's been able to expose it. Hey, even Manning had trouble with the Patriots. Does anyone remember Flacco throwing for like 34 yards and an interception against the Patriots?

 

Something that people don't seem to realize is that in Luck's rookie season, he had a turnover rate of like 60% in terms of his roster. He gained 15 new players (including Luck) and lost 15. He also had a revamped coaching staff and lost his head coach during the season. His receiving corp consisted of three rookie wide receivers, a perennial disappointment in Donnie Avery, Reggie Wayne, and two rookie tight ends. His running game? His best back was rookie Vick Ballard. So, basically, the skill positions featured seven rookies. So, SEVEN of the most important positions on that offense were rookies. Let that sink in. He basically built that offense up. 

And he wasn't like most rookies who get eased into the action, like a Rodgers or Phillip Rivers who get to sit for a while or even Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, or Russell Wilson who aren't asked to do too much. No, he was thrown right into the fire and asked to put that offense on his shoulders and carry that team. And what did he do? Just go for over 4,000 yards and lead his team to and 11-5 record and the playoffs after going 2-14 the year before.

 

Luck is truly one of the few quarterbacks who makes the players around him better and he is an elite quarterback.

And I know a lot of people like to give a pass to Flacco for working with Cameron and having a lot of new coordinators, but Luck had Arians (Cameron clone) and has had a new coordinator by year two.

I agree he is a spectacular player, but he has not even hit his prime. His prime will be when he wins the big games. When he leads his team to the super bowl once or twice (note that I said "when", not "if") he will be widely respected as one of the best. But for now, I don't think he compares to Brady, Manning, or Brees. Flacco has an edge on him because of his playoff skill. His clutch factor is off the charts. But Luck has a very bright future, and had he been there at number 3, I would've taken him no doubt.

[-Truth-]

Good pick in Newton.

[hn68wb4]

I'm taking a chance on Winston. He's got the weapons, he's got a good coach in Lovie, and i actually like the Bucs' defense going into next season.

[Mt. Crushmore]

Well that is interesting

[hn68wb4]

Well that is interesting

If i could've traded back i would've

[Dubs]

I'm taking a chance on Winston. He's got the weapons, he's got a good coach in Lovie, and i actually like the Bucs' defense going into next season.

 

fair enough...but how will he do with the team you build around him...? Little early for me on a bigger unknown than others. But I have a hard time saying potential is not huge in this game and if I were to be a true GM and for some reason a fantasy draft occurred some of those older guys would be heavily devalued even with great production

[regz1997]

Well that is interesting

Yeah Winston went a lot earlier than I expected...

[Mt. Crushmore]

In case anyone is wondering, the first rookie QBs went off the board in the 3rd round the other two years (Manuel and Bridgewater).  

 

And yes, I was the idiot who took E.J. Manuel in the 3rd round.  

[KDUBB44]

Way too early for jameis

[hn68wb4]

Yeah i know Winston probably isn't completely worth #10 overall but...of the 23 QBs i deemed draftable (17 that were still on the board), i liked his situation best and if he can regain his 2013 form then he could be a steal. Like i said: i realize its early for him but considering i have 45 picks until my next i don't believe he'd be available then and the drop off is huge. If i could have traded back (or up in the second) then i would have.

Edited May 11, 2015 by hn68wb4

[Italian Raven]

I don't love Tannehill that early but I didn't have much choice..afterall the Phins front 7 is pretty sound this year and the boy has some legit weapons.. why not.
 

[Mt. Crushmore]

I like Tannehill and Newton as QBs here.

[Mt. Crushmore]

I'm in

 

You are up

[Mt. Crushmore]

Big Ben was my highest ranked older QB

[RaineV1]

I don't love Tannehill that early but I didn't have much choice..afterall the Phins front 7 is pretty sound this year and the boy has some legit weapons.. why not.

 

I like Tannehill and think that if he's given a good offensive line, he can win big games. I was kinda hoping people would underrate him and he'd slide to my pick. It was a long shot though.

[52520Andrew]

1. He's asked to throw over 600 times, has one of the worst interior offensive lines in the NFL (if not the worst), and has no reliable running game or defense. Basically, he's asked to be the centerpiece of that offense. Remember 2013 Joe Flacco when he had a terrible line, no run game, and was asked to do just about everything? Andrew Luck's interception percentage last year was .4% higher than Flacco's. As for the fumbles, consider he is the most hit and sacked quarterback in the entire league since 2012. And honestly, it's not even close. 

 

2. Numbers aren't everything, but he's a third year quarterback. I mean, what do you expect? And I'm pretty sure Luck set a rookie record in 2012 for most passing yardage. 

 

3. Know what Joe Flacco's TD:INT ratio in years one through two and one through three were? 1:7 and 3:9 respectively. Yeah, Joe Flacco has been stellar lately, but it was hardly ever that way in his first three years. On the flip side, Luck has averaged 304 yards while Flacco only had 131 yards per game on average, yet he still had a 3:9 TD:INT. Not that Flacco got a Super Bowl in his first three years, which is a team effort so I wouldn't even use that as an argument. 

 

4. Bill Bellichek is one of the greatest defensive minds this game has seen. Given how many holes there are in the Colts offense, it's not a terribly big surprise to see that he's been able to expose it. Hey, even Manning had trouble with the Patriots. Does anyone remember Flacco throwing for like 34 yards and an interception against the Patriots?

 

Something that people don't seem to realize is that in Luck's rookie season, he had a turnover rate of like 60% in terms of his roster. He gained 15 new players (including Luck) and lost 15. He also had a revamped coaching staff and lost his head coach during the season. His receiving corp consisted of three rookie wide receivers, a perennial disappointment in Donnie Avery, Reggie Wayne, and two rookie tight ends. His running game? His best back was rookie Vick Ballard. So, basically, the skill positions featured seven rookies. So, SEVEN of the most important positions on that offense were rookies. Let that sink in. He basically built that offense up. 

And he wasn't like most rookies who get eased into the action, like a Rodgers or Phillip Rivers who get to sit for a while or even Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, or Russell Wilson who aren't asked to do too much. No, he was thrown right into the fire and asked to put that offense on his shoulders and carry that team. And what did he do? Just go for over 4,000 yards and lead his team to and 11-5 record and the playoffs after going 2-14 the year before.

 

Luck is truly one of the few quarterbacks who makes the players around him better and he is an elite quarterback.

And I know a lot of people like to give a pass to Flacco for working with Cameron and having a lot of new coordinators, but Luck had Arians (Cameron clone) and has had a new coordinator by year two. 

 

24 turnovers is 24 turnovers, it is great that he is the center piece of the offense, that is exactly what most top tier QBs are. Tom Brady threw the ball over 600 times in 2011, 2012, and 2013, and had 582 this past year. You say I am judging him harshly but that is how the top tier QBs are judged. Also Luck had a 2.60 INT rate compared to Flacco's 2.17 INT rate. Luck threw an INT nearly 20% more often than Flacco did, just in case you thought that was a small difference.

 

No one called Flacco an elite QB in his first 2 years just in case you were wondering. Also Luck had a 6 - 7 one this year. Did you also miss the part where I had Flacco ranked #3 and Luck #2? This isn't a Flacco Luck debate, I think Flacco is a top 10 QB but isn't top 5 right now as well. I think his playoff success or overall clutchness and the lack of many good young QBs helps his case though in this type of game, that and the fact that he has had no real weapons to work with until hopefully this year. I really want to see what Flacco is like with some weapons because I think he can make that leap as well, he had everything come together in the 2012 postseason and was on fire. 

 

This is 2015, Peyton has already beaten the Pats by now multiple times. We are comparing QBs right now, not guys when they were 3 years into the league. Peyton had his things to work on at this point as well before he started getting MVPs and breaking passing records and finally winning a Super Bowl.

 

Andrew Luck is better than Curtis Painter, wow shocker, weren't they like 12-4 the year prior to going 2-14 anyways? While the turnover and building up the offense is great, there are plenty of other players and coaches that deserve credit as well. Also while it is great that Luck got thrown into the fire, that doesn't change that he isn't a top tier QB for me, the best QB in the league last year was eased into it, again I am not comparing careers here.

 

Yeah Wayne(at least before this past year), T.Y. and Allen are all scrubs aren't they. Also Arians is the guy who was the OC for the Steelers when they won their Super Bowl(something Cameron can't say the same about, in fact him being fired is what sparked the offense in the first place) and a certain other QB had him as an OC much longer than Luck did. 

 

Look, Luck is a guy with a ton of potential and I believe he will be great but until he is doing great things like winning Super Bowls or MVPs or puts a few good seasons together, he just isn't there yet. Heck many people didn't consider Manning to be a top tier QB until he cut down on his turnovers, he had the same problem the first few years. I don't know why you are the one taking it personally that I have him ranked at #2 as opposed to people a few pages back saying he wasn't even top 5 on their boards but I don't have the time to keep this going. Did you just see that I said Luck was overrated and not bother to read the rest of the post? It isn't like I said Luck was a bad pick, I just don't think he is at the level he is hyped to be at right now, kinda like the Lebron GOAT talk although I am not as sold on LeBron being the GOAT. 

[52520Andrew]

Big Ben was my highest ranked older QB

 

Good pick in Newton.

 

Fan of both picks as well

[gabefergy]

Just got caught up with some of these picks. Interesting is all I will say.

[Sizzlebshu]

Yes. The point of this game is to take it seriously as every move directly affects all of the others. If we find that a member is consciously tanking, he won't be around for long.

Im so taking Seabass with the first pick 

[Mt. Crushmore]

Just got caught up with some of these picks. Interesting is all I will say.

 

Yep.  Much more eventful top 12 than recent years.

[allblackraven]

In case anyone is wondering, the first rookie QBs went off the board in the 3rd round the other two years (Manuel and Bridgewater).  

 

And yes, I was the idiot who took E.J. Manuel in the 3rd round.  

That's nothing, I was a bigger idiot taking him in 3rd last year. I win!

[Gordo52]

Matt Ryan was such an easy choice

[Mt. Crushmore]

That's nothing, I was a bigger idiot taking him in 3rd last year. I win!

 

You do win!

 

Who wants to continue the Manuel in the 3rd trend this year?

Edited May 11, 2015 by Mt. Crushmore

[Archeearl92]

Matt Ryan was such an easy choice

there goes my QB...and I was so close