[News] Late For Work 5/7: NFL World Reacts To Legend Ed Reed's Retirement

[WNC-Raven]

To the greatest safety in the history of the NFL...THANK YOU ED REED!

You gave 110% of your mind, body and soul to us and your teammates. You will never be forgotten. See you in Canton 2020

[rmcjacket23]

When I used the term "allow", I was talking about cheating in general, after you suggested players should also be allowed to use HGH. I never said anything about the type of punishment Brady should get, but I do believe that slapping a multi-millionaire on the wrist is basically the same thing as allowing it. I understand that what type of punishment is deserved is subjective, but as a rule of thumb, in all situations, not just this one, the punishment has to outweigh the reward, otherwise, there is no deterrent. 

 

Saying that harsh punishments rarely deter anybody from doing anything is just flat out wrong. You don't see nearly as many shots to a qb's knee's, horsecollar tackles, or defenders launching themselves into the head area of defenseless receivers because they are now 15 yd penalties. MLB has significantly cut down on steroid use because of the harsher penalties. You're never going to be able to stop everyone from cheating, but imposing fair, strict punishments does make a big difference.

1. The "punishment should outweigh the crime" theory is just that... a theory. I'd argue that in society in general, especially in the legal system, standard protocol in moderns society is "the crime outweighs the punishment". In this specific case, you could make the case that the "reward" for Tom Brady and the Patriots is a SB ring. So... how exactly do you concoct a punishment that exceeds the reward of winning the SB? Particularly for a 35+ year old QB who's already won many of them? The opening volley, in that instance, would be a lifetime ban from football, banishment from the HOF, and basically a total stripping of the title from the player and from the team. I think we can both agree that punishment seems incredibly ridiculous and so outside the realm of possibliities that its not even worth discussing. But that would be the type of punishment that would essentially be the minimum punishment for exceeding the reward of winning the SB.

 

2. The point of me saying that harsh punishments rarely act as a deterrent was mostly intended to focus around levying harsh punishments for infractions that shouldn't warrant such a punishment, mostly because the infractions are minor. Me personally, I'd have a bigger problem with a player intentionally diving at a players knee than I would them deflating some footballs for their own benefit, yet ironically, the former is a standard 15 yard penalty and a fine, while the latter is being discussed in the realm of multi-game suspensions.

 

3. Imposing fair and strict punishments is important. My issue is... its not the publics job to determine what is fair and strict. If the public doesn't like the punishment, then they have two options... 1. do something about it (aka stop watching games) or 2. suck it up and move on with their lives. The public has no power to levy punishments in this case, nor do they probably have sufficient knowledge and insight to do so.

 

4. I said players should be allowed to use HGH because I literally think they should be allowed to use it. It shouldn't be illegal or banned by sports in general, which therefore would make it not cheating. It would as standard in sports as players using creatine or any of the other hundreds of legal over the counter, performance enhancing substances that players are already allowed to take in most sports.

[RavensBaltimore]

They should look at this "deflate gate" as how much did Tom Brady even know that this was so frowned upon in the league.

No they shouldn't, because that's completely irrelevant. Besides the fact that there is plenty of evidence Brady knew the rule and tried to cover it up, you can't allow people to come up with their own interpretations of how important the rules are. It's also impossible to enforce a rule based on how much the violator knew it was frowned upon.

 

 

Again, if this were the Ravens you would 100% agree.

Even if that's true, it would only be because of bias, which wouldn't make it right. You can't really look at the facts objectively and make a strong case in defense of Brady. And I'm not so sure your statement is true in the first place. When Ngata got suspended 4 games last year, the majority of our fans were not saying, "it didn't impact the game that much. It was only adderall." Some may have been saying that, but the vast majority of our fans were upset at Ngata and felt he should be accountable instead of pointing fingers.

 

 

When the the pressure of football ever been an issue in the NFL? I think it didn't have nearly as much affect on the game as most people think.

It was obviously an issue for Brady, and he has said so himself. Someone posted a link to the study I was referring to earlier. It says from 200-2006, the Patriots averaged 1 fumble every 42 touches, and the league leader was at 1 fumble every 56 touches. Since 2007, the Patriots have averaged 1 fumble every 74 touches, and the next team was still at 1/56. The statistical chances of that happening at any given time are "0.0001711874", or 1 in 5,842. But it didn't just happen at any given time. That huge statistical anomaly happened immediately after Brady proposed that every team be able to bring their own balls, and that wish was granted. That's not a cherry picked stat. It's a 15 year sample size, and they have had the same coach the whole time. Then, they get caught deflating the footballs. If you're objective, which you claim to be, how can you possibly look at those facts and say it didn't have a significant impact on the game? Are you clinging to the 0.00017 chance that it's a coincidence?

 

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-new-england-patriots-mysteriously-became-fumble-proof-in-2007

[RavensReck27]

No they shouldn't, because that's completely irrelevant. Besides the fact that there is plenty of evidence Brady knew the rule and tried to cover it up, you can't allow people to come up with their own interpretations of how important the rules are. It's also impossible to enforce a rule based on how much the violator knew it was frowned upon.

 

 

Even if that's true, it would only be because of bias, which wouldn't make it right. You can't really look at the facts objectively and make a strong case in defense of Brady. And I'm not so sure your statement is true in the first place. When Ngata got suspended 4 games last year, the majority of our fans were not saying, "it didn't impact the game that much. It was only adderall." Some may have been saying that, but the vast majority of our fans were upset at Ngata and felt he should be accountable instead of pointing fingers.

 

 

It was obviously an issue for Brady, and he has said so himself. Someone posted a link to the study I was referring to earlier. It says from 200-2006, the Patriots averaged 1 fumble every 42 touches, and the league leader was at 1 fumble every 56 touches. Since 2007, the Patriots have averaged 1 fumble every 74 touches, and the next team was still at 1/56. The statistical chances of that happening at any given time are "0.0001711874", or 1 in 5,842. But it didn't just happen at any given time. That huge statistical anomaly happened immediately after Brady proposed that every team be able to bring their own balls, and that wish was granted. That's not a cherry picked stat. It's a 15 year sample size, and they have had the same coach the whole time. Then, they get caught deflating the footballs. If you're objective, which you claim to be, how can you possibly look at those facts and say it didn't have a significant impact on the game? Are you clinging to the 0.00017 chance that it's a coincidence?

 

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-new-england-patriots-mysteriously-became-fumble-proof-in-2007

He obviously knew the rule after the accusation broke out.  There is no evidence that he knew about it beforehand.  The general bias is definitely a factor in this case.  The NFL's #1 priority is pleasing the people. The majority of the NFL fans hate Tom Brady and the Patriots and want to see them burn.  With the Ngata case, plenty of people have been busted for adderall before him, and it was WELL known that it was against the rules.  Who has gotten in trouble for slightly deflating their footballs in the past? Exactly.  It was hard to defend Ngata since that was CLEARLY an occurring problem in the NFL.  Those facts about fumbles are unarguably appealing, but I still don't 100% buy it.  Belichick's pet peeve is fumbling.  I have watched a lot of Patriots games, and when I see one of their RB's fumble I don't see that RB for the rest of the game, or at least a quarter.  if they are out of the top 5 in fumble percentage after this upcoming season, then please pull up the stats and prove me wrong, and I will gladly apologize. However, I do think they will be in the top 5, and even if they have been deflating footballs for years, how come it is just now being noticed? And the Patriots are one of the most well-prepared teams in the league, and that is what makes them as good as they are.  If those statistics are true, and the Patriots might have cut down 1 or 2 fumbles per season, then I think the draft picks taken from them might be higher.  Regardless, I said they are indeed cheating by doing this, and your argument just indicates that the cheating had slightly more affect than it appears.  Still, I would put this case on the same scale as the Falcons amplifying their home crowd noise.  I still think it is a minor cheat, and it shouldn't even be put in the same sentence as SpyGate. Listening in on the opponents plays is a major cheat. Football pressure and crowd noise are all secondary factors in the game of football.  How the players play, and the plays that are called are the primary factors.

Edited May 7, 2015 by RavensReck27

[Ravens West]

We are a more educated society, as a whole, then we ever have been, but we have not evolved in what we feel is justice. Some people see something, and they decide what they think must be done based off how they feel. That is not how justice is suppose to work. True justice works on a fair and non-biased scale. They should look at this "deflate gate" as how much did Tom Brady even know that this was so frowned upon in the league. The NFL rule book is so complex that it is almost impossible to know every rule. Do you guys know every rule in the sport you play/played? Probably not. That being said, ignorance is not an excuse, but it should be taken into account. Another factor you should take into account is how much did the deflated balls actually affect the game? Coming from me, who has played football in high school and with my friends in the backyard my whole life, as long is the ball isn't flat then we don't even consider that as a problem. I highly DOUBT that a SLIGHTLY deflated ball had as much affect on the game as you guys think. Again, if this were the Ravens you would 100% agree. Why? because you are biased for the Ravens, and biased against the Patriots. When has the pressure of a football ever been an issue in the NFL? Why would Tom Brady KNOW that this of all things was bad and this kind of scandal could possibly occur from this. I think Brady WAS behind the deflation, but I think he didn't consider it as full blown CHEATING at the time. Overall, it is against the rules and he will be punished, but I think he wasn't aware of how severe what he was doing was, and I think it didn't have nearly as much affect on the game as most people think. With the media scandal torturing the Pats since the Super Bowl, I think the further punishment should NOT be TOO severe. Personally, I think they should just be fined, but what I think will happen is that they will be fined, and they will lose a draft pick or two. Just because the NFL wants to please the people, the fans. I DO NOT think Tom Brady should, or will, get suspended. Courts adjourned.

 

Court is reconvened!

Where do I start with this?

1) He knew he was breaking the rules.  That's why he sneakily had the ball boy do it, instead of openly doing it in front of the refs.  There is no such thing as breaking the rules a little bit.  There is no such thing as cheating a little bit.  You either cheat, or you don't.  This was cheating!

2) As you stated, ignorance is no excuse.  Besides, isn't he the one that so arrogantly proclaimed that the Ravens should read the rules?  So, you really think we should give him a pass for not knowing the rules?...REALLY!

3) It doesn't matter how much the deflated balls affected the outcome of the game.  The fact is he conspired to illegally manipulate the game balls in his favor.  He willingly conspired to circumvent the NFL rules for an advantage.  He cheated!

4) To compare you and your buddies playing backyard football with amateur talent and no football inflation rules to the pro-level of the NFL with football inflation rules is ludicrous!  It made me want to stop reading your post right there.

5) Brady and the Patriots should be harshly punished to secure any chance of the NFL maintaining integrity of its game.  If swift and harsh penalties are not levied, what is to dissuade future occurrences from any other team?  Afterall, how many times have we heard "...to protect the shield..." come from the commissioner's office when handing down discipline.  Here to, the commissioner has to prove he means it.

6) The media is NOT the scandal here.  The Patriots is the scandal.  If the fan base feels too beaten down by the media and worldwide scrutiny, then it's simple:  stop supporting and excusing the culture of cheating!

 

Verdict:  GUILTY!!!  Fine and penalize the Patriots organization, and suspend Tom Brady for the year.  It's the best and most effective disciplinary solution to show the seriousness of willfully breaking NFL rules to cheat, and to send a strong message to any other team, and their personnel, who may consider doing it in the future.

[RavensBaltimore]

He obviously knew the rule after the accusation broke out.  There is no evidence that he knew about it beforehand.  The general bias is definitely a factor in this case.  The NFL's #1 priority is pleasing the people. The majority of the NFL fans hate Tom Brady and the Patriots and want to see them burn.  With the Ngata case, plenty of people have been busted for adderall before him, and it was WELL known that it was against the rules.  Who has gotten in trouble for slightly deflating their footballs in the past? Exactly.  It was hard to defend Ngata since that was CLEARLY an occurring problem in the NFL.  Those facts about fumbles are unarguably appealing, but I still don't 100% buy it.  Belichick's pet peeve is fumbling.  I have watched a lot of Patriots games, and when I see one of their RB's fumble I don't see that RB for the rest of the game, or at least a quarter.  if they are out of the top 5 in fumble percentage after this upcoming season, then please pull up the stats and prove me wrong, and I will gladly apologize. However, I do think they will be in the top 5, and even if they have been deflating footballs for years, how come it is just now being noticed? And the Patriots are one of the most well-prepared teams in the league, and that is what makes them as good as they are.  If those statistics are true, and the Patriots might have cut down 1 or 2 fumbles per season, then I think the draft picks taken from them might be higher.  Regardless, I said they are indeed cheating by doing this, and your argument just indicates that the cheating had slightly more affect than it appears.  Still, I would put this case on the same scale as the Falcons amplifying their home crowd noise.  I still think it is a minor cheat, and it shouldn't even be put in the same sentence as SpyGate. Listening in on the opponents plays is a major cheat. Football pressure and crowd noise are all secondary factors in the game of football.  How the players play, and the plays that are called are the primary factors.

If the Patriots gradually started fumbling less when Belichik became coach, you might have a point, but he was the coach for 7 years before the drastic and sudden change happened. Did it take him 7 years to realize that fumbles were bad?

 

The point about Ngata was that our fans can accept when a player has done something wrong, and saying "Brady didn't know any better", does not justify it in any way. There are comments and texts that strongly suggest he knew the rule, and even if he didn't, it's on him.

[ravens533]

I am glad that Ed is going to retire as a Raven. It will be great to have him put in the Ring of Honor. I also think they should retire his number. But Ed becoming a coach?? It takes a certain type of personality to coach and how do we know if he can do it. Yes, there is probably not a more knowledgeable player at the safety position ever but can he translate that knowledge as a coach? That would be a big question. I would like to see if he would want to come back to the Ravens as an advisor to the secondary and then see where it goes from there. If Ed even wants to consider coaching at all.

[ravens533]

On the subject of Brady and his situation. I am more irritated that he tried to cover up the cheating and lied to the investigative team and withheld information. I am also disappointed that the Patriots did not make their employees available for follow up interviews when requested. Yes deflating the balls was cheating and should get the fines called for in the rules. But to me their cover up is the thing that should be address harshly. Glad I will not be the one who has to decide what is the appropriate punishment for that.

[RavensReck27]

Court is reconvened!

Where do I start with this?

1) He knew he was breaking the rules.  That's why he sneakily had the ball boy do it, instead of openly doing it in front of the refs.  There is no such thing as breaking the rules a little bit.  There is no such thing as cheating a little bit.  You either cheat, or you don't.  This was cheating!

2) As you stated, ignorance is no excuse.  Besides, isn't he the one that so arrogantly proclaimed that the Ravens should read the rules?  So, you really think we should give him a pass for not knowing the rules?...REALLY!

3) It doesn't matter how much the deflated balls affected the outcome of the game.  The fact is he conspired to illegally manipulate the game balls in his favor.  He willingly conspired to circumvent the NFL rules for an advantage.  He cheated!

4) To compare you and your buddies playing backyard football with amateur talent and no football inflation rules to the pro-level of the NFL with football inflation rules is ludicrous!  It made me want to stop reading your post right there.

5) Brady and the Patriots should be harshly punished to secure any chance of the NFL maintaining integrity of its game.  If swift and harsh penalties are not levied, what is to dissuade future occurrences from any other team?  Afterall, how many times have we heard "...to protect the shield..." come from the commissioner's office when handing down discipline.  Here to, the commissioner has to prove he means it.

6) The media is NOT the scandal here.  The Patriots is the scandal.  If the fan base feels too beaten down by the media and worldwide scrutiny, then it's simple:  stop supporting and excusing the culture of cheating!

 

Verdict:  GUILTY!!!  Fine and penalize the Patriots organization, and suspend Tom Brady for the year.  It's the best and most effective disciplinary solution to show the seriousness of willfully breaking NFL rules to cheat, and to send a strong message to any other team, and their personnel, who may consider doing it in the future.

He didn't have the ball boy do it sneakily.  Why would Tom Brady fix his own balls.  If Tom wanted them deflated he would literally just ask one of the ball boys to do it.  They wouldn't question Brady.  I wouldn't say it was initially sneaky.  I would say that after it broke out and Tom Brady realized how big of a deal it was, he knew that there was no TRUE evidence that he was behind it, so I can see why just denying it and getting on with his day seemed like a decent option, rather then blatantly admit it, and then go through all of the after math.  Not to mention, this broke out the week before the Super Bowl.  Brady was focused on the Super Bowl, and he was not going to admit to something like that, where it was just an accusation at the time, and no REAL evidence was given that he was behind it.  I can understand that.  After the Super Bowl he definitely could have came out and admitted it, and I would have completely understood his decision to wait.  However, as we seem to act like this is common in our country, blatantly admitting that you did something with no complete evidence that you did it, is not something people do.  Sometimes it happens, but mainly only truly good people, or dumb people do that.  The fact is, the Patriots legitimately thought they were going to get away with it.  In the Wells report, he does not claim that he has any confessions or direct evidence that it was indeed Brady's idea, but rather he just has assumptions that Brady knew about it.  He said Brady would not comply to his demands on the level Well's wanted him to, but Tom Brady just won his fourth Super Bowl.  He has been cliff diving, world traveling, partying, going to the Kentucky Derby.  So WHY would he want to spend his time to come in and let this guy interrogate him over slightly deflated balls used in a game where they won by over 30 points. NO ONE IS PERFECT, not even Tom Brady. Put yourself in his shoes and tell me you would actually risk tainting you reputation, when it is such a small factor, that he probably didn't even know was that big of a deal, and when there is no REAL evidence that PROVES he did it.  Also when you are traveling the world and enjoying your awesome life, why don't i just fly back from Italy real fast so I can be interrogated about slight deflated footballs.  If you can put yourself in his shoes, and be perfect in this situation, then you win.  BUT I guarantee MOST  people in that situation would have handled it exactly how Brady did. Ignorance is not an excuse, as I said, and I don't think they should cut him a break on it. I was just merely saying that the ignorance factor definitely plays a role in this case, and should be added into the overall equation.  I compared it to high school football, and the back yard with my friends was just to add more football experience to back up my point.  I played Safety, and I threw, caught, and ripped footballs out of people arms.  There have been balls that were over inflated, and under inflated that I have played with, and not once did I notice a difference.  What are you talking about…. Obviously the Patriots are the scandal, but with that scandal comes the mass media.  Every coach/player getting followed around and questioned.  Living with eyes on the back of your head.  Tainting of reputation.  The media involvement in the scandal is what makes it a punishment.  All you did was questioned my examples.  Sorry I didn't have a full elaboration of each example. Well, here you go. The Reck Court is adjourned.

Edited May 8, 2015 by RavensReck27

[boldtown]

pro bowl rookie at 94...joe flacco at 97? talk about giving fuel.

[gooftroop]

He didn't have the ball boy do it sneakily.  Why would Tom Brady fix his own balls.  If Tom wanted them deflated he would literally just ask one of the ball boys to do it.  They wouldn't question Brady.  I wouldn't say it was initially sneaky.  I would say that after it broke out and Tom Brady realized how big of a deal it was, he knew that there was no TRUE evidence that he was behind it, so I can see why just denying it and getting on with his day seemed like a decent option, rather then blatantly admit it, and then go through all of the after math.  Not to mention, this broke out the week before the Super Bowl.  Brady was focused on the Super Bowl, and he was not going to admit to something like that, where it was just an accusation at the time, and no REAL evidence was given that he was behind it.  I can understand that.  After the Super Bowl he definitely could have came out and admitted it, and I would have completely understood his decision to wait.  However, as we seem to act like this is common in our country, blatantly admitting that you did something with no complete evidence that you did it, is not something people do.  Sometimes it happens, but mainly only truly good people, or dumb people do that.  The fact is, the Patriots legitimately thought they were going to get away with it.  In the Wells report, he does not claim that he has any confessions or direct evidence that it was indeed Brady's idea, but rather he just has assumptions that Brady knew about it.  He said Brady would not comply to his demands on the level Well's wanted him to, but Tom Brady just won his fourth Super Bowl.  He has been cliff diving, world traveling, partying, going to the Kentucky Derby.  So WHY would he want to spend his time to come in and let this guy interrogate him over slightly deflated balls used in a game where they won by over 30 points. NO ONE IS PERFECT, not even Tom Brady. Put yourself in his shoes and tell me you would actually risk tainting you reputation, when it is such a small factor, that he probably didn't even know was that big of a deal, and when there is no REAL evidence that PROVES he did it.  Also when you are traveling the world and enjoying your awesome life, why don't i just fly back from Italy real fast so I can be interrogated about slight deflated footballs.  If you can put yourself in his shoes, and be perfect in this situation, then you win.  BUT I guarantee MOST  people in that situation would have handled it exactly how Brady did. Ignorance is not an excuse, as I said, and I don't think they should cut him a break on it. I was just merely saying that the ignorance factor definitely plays a role in this case, and should be added into the overall equation.  I compared it to high school football, and the back yard with my friends was just to add more football experience to back up my point.  I played Safety, and I threw, caught, and ripped footballs out of people arms.  There have been balls that were over inflated, and under inflated that I have played with, and not once did I notice a difference.  What are you talking about…. Obviously the Patriots are the scandal, but with that scandal comes the mass media.  Every coach/player getting followed around and questioned.  Living with eyes on the back of your head.  Tainting of reputation.  The media involvement in the scandal is what makes it a punishment.  All you did was questioned my examples.  Sorry I didn't have a full elaboration of each example. Well, here you go. The Reck Court is adjourned.

Laughable.

[RavensFootballFan]

I hope to see Goodell hand a very severe punishment to #12 and the organization with at least 4 or more games suspension, losing a draft pick or two and heavy fines. Anything less than that would be a slap on the wrist. Punish #12, he tarnished the AFC Championship game and likely games before that.

[Minionhunter]

Jets game they were talking about Brady had 58% completion rate with higher pressure footballs. Brady has small hands. So does Garappalo...

 

Page number 20 of the report (page 24 of the pdf) is damning of the Patriots which says they didn't cooperate and are guilty of conduct detrimental to the league for failing to cooperate with the investigation. That fifth interview they denied and said was too much was requested because Wells team just got the texts from the phones and wanted to ask McNally what they meant. So Goodell has the means and proof to harshly go after Craft, the team and Brady just based on them failing to cooperate. We can only hope he punishes this serially cheating team harshly to stop the culture of cheating. 

Edited May 8, 2015 by Minionhunter

[Minionhunter]

I hope to see Goodell hand a very severe punishment to #12 and the organization with at least 4 or more games suspension, losing a draft pick or two and heavy fines. Anything less than that would be a slap on the wrist. Punish #12, he tarnished the AFC Championship game and likely games before that.

No, anything less than docking the Patriots less than 25% of their cap space each year for the next five years is too light.  Don't fine them, don't take draft picks, just take away 25% of their ability to maintain a competitive balance for the next five years. That would send a strong message not to cheat. 

[Minionhunter]

Ed going in to Canton in 2020? Seriously? 

 

 

Perfect! 

Edited May 8, 2015 by Minionhunter

[Minionhunter]

"reports."

thats a funny way to spell "Pats fan rumors."

That was a very close to slanderous newspaper article by a Boston writer commissioned by the Patriots press hit squad. The Patriots have and maintain an enemies list, the Ravens are on it.  

[balfan23]

Absence of hard evidence combined with the commish having no appetite to suspend the league's #1 golden boy combined with Kraft being a premiere member of the owners club ... nothing will happen to the Pats.

 

The fans for every team outside of New England will just consider it yet another tick mark in the shady tactics column for the team. That will be as much a part of their legacy as their championships.

[RavensBaltimore]

1. The "punishment should outweigh the crime" theory is just that... a theory. I'd argue that in society in general, especially in the legal system, standard protocol in moderns society is "the crime outweighs the punishment". In this specific case, you could make the case that the "reward" for Tom Brady and the Patriots is a SB ring. So... how exactly do you concoct a punishment that exceeds the reward of winning the SB? Particularly for a 35+ year old QB who's already won many of them? The opening volley, in that instance, would be a lifetime ban from football, banishment from the HOF, and basically a total stripping of the title from the player and from the team. I think we can both agree that punishment seems incredibly ridiculous and so outside the realm of possibliities that its not even worth discussing. But that would be the type of punishment that would essentially be the minimum punishment for exceeding the reward of winning the SB.

 

2. The point of me saying that harsh punishments rarely act as a deterrent was mostly intended to focus around levying harsh punishments for infractions that shouldn't warrant such a punishment, mostly because the infractions are minor. Me personally, I'd have a bigger problem with a player intentionally diving at a players knee than I would them deflating some footballs for their own benefit, yet ironically, the former is a standard 15 yard penalty and a fine, while the latter is being discussed in the realm of multi-game suspensions.

 

3. Imposing fair and strict punishments is important. My issue is... its not the publics job to determine what is fair and strict. If the public doesn't like the punishment, then they have two options... 1. do something about it (aka stop watching games) or 2. suck it up and move on with their lives. The public has no power to levy punishments in this case, nor do they probably have sufficient knowledge and insight to do so.

 

4. I said players should be allowed to use HGH because I literally think they should be allowed to use it. It shouldn't be illegal or banned by sports in general, which therefore would make it not cheating. It would as standard in sports as players using creatine or any of the other hundreds of legal over the counter, performance enhancing substances that players are already allowed to take in most sports.

1. The reward for deflating footballs was not winning the super bowl. It was a better chance at winning the super bowl, which is totally different. There are reasonable penalties that would outweigh that. MLB has significantly cleaned up its PED problem by imposing stricter testing and penalties, handing out season long suspensions for repeat offenders, proving that it works.  There will always be a few cheaters trying to get away with it, but they can make those players the exception rather than the rule by making the penalties significant.

 

2. All of that is completely subjective and your opinion, which is what you've been criticizing everyone else for. "shouldn't warrant such a punishment", "infractions that are minor", etc. Many people feel otherwise, and there is plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise.

 

3. This paragraph couldn't be more wrong. If the public had no power, do you really think do you think Goodell would have suddenly made Ray Rice's 2 game suspension indefinite the day the public saw the video? There were always NFL players committing domestic violence, but the NFL suddenly became much stricter on it and suddenly cared a lot more when a video went public. The fans on here aren't really claiming to have any power on the subject, anyway. They're just voicing their opinion, which is what I thought these boards are for.

 

 

4. I don't think the pure, injectable form of HGH is legal for anyone to obtain or take without a doctor's prescription, so I don't see how they could allow athletes to use it. It's a synthetic hormone that needs to be injected and causes drastic, unnatural changes, which is totally different than creatine or anything you get over the counter.

[Ravens West]

He didn't have the ball boy do it sneakily.  Why would Tom Brady fix his own balls.  If Tom wanted them deflated he would literally just ask one of the ball boys to do it.  They wouldn't question Brady.  I wouldn't say it was initially sneaky.  I would say that after it broke out and Tom Brady realized how big of a deal it was, he knew that there was no TRUE evidence that he was behind it, so I can see why just denying it and getting on with his day seemed like a decent option, rather then blatantly admit it, and then go through all of the after math.  Not to mention, this broke out the week before the Super Bowl.  Brady was focused on the Super Bowl, and he was not going to admit to something like that, where it was just an accusation at the time, and no REAL evidence was given that he was behind it.  I can understand that.  After the Super Bowl he definitely could have came out and admitted it, and I would have completely understood his decision to wait.  However, as we seem to act like this is common in our country, blatantly admitting that you did something with no complete evidence that you did it, is not something people do.  Sometimes it happens, but mainly only truly good people, or dumb people do that.  The fact is, the Patriots legitimately thought they were going to get away with it.  In the Wells report, he does not claim that he has any confessions or direct evidence that it was indeed Brady's idea, but rather he just has assumptions that Brady knew about it.  He said Brady would not comply to his demands on the level Well's wanted him to, but Tom Brady just won his fourth Super Bowl.  He has been cliff diving, world traveling, partying, going to the Kentucky Derby.  So WHY would he want to spend his time to come in and let this guy interrogate him over slightly deflated balls used in a game where they won by over 30 points. NO ONE IS PERFECT, not even Tom Brady. Put yourself in his shoes and tell me you would actually risk tainting you reputation, when it is such a small factor, that he probably didn't even know was that big of a deal, and when there is no REAL evidence that PROVES he did it.  Also when you are traveling the world and enjoying your awesome life, why don't i just fly back from Italy real fast so I can be interrogated about slight deflated footballs.  If you can put yourself in his shoes, and be perfect in this situation, then you win.  BUT I guarantee MOST  people in that situation would have handled it exactly how Brady did. Ignorance is not an excuse, as I said, and I don't think they should cut him a break on it. I was just merely saying that the ignorance factor definitely plays a role in this case, and should be added into the overall equation.  I compared it to high school football, and the back yard with my friends was just to add more football experience to back up my point.  I played Safety, and I threw, caught, and ripped footballs out of people arms.  There have been balls that were over inflated, and under inflated that I have played with, and not once did I notice a difference.  What are you talking about…. Obviously the Patriots are the scandal, but with that scandal comes the mass media.  Every coach/player getting followed around and questioned.  Living with eyes on the back of your head.  Tainting of reputation.  The media involvement in the scandal is what makes it a punishment.  All you did was questioned my examples.  Sorry I didn't have a full elaboration of each example. Well, here you go. The Reck Court is adjourned.

 

RavensReck27, you are either very, very, very young and naive, or an adult punkin' this forum.  I'm not sure of which one, but if it is the former, I apologize for attacking your previous post.  I understand seeing your idol dressed down and exposed for his real self can deflate a young fan much more than the Patriot's game balls.

If it's the latter, thanks for the laugh.  This last post had me on the floor in stitches.  There's a lot of funny stuff in it...like how you keep reaching for obscure speculations to defend a defense you obviously don't have.  My favourite is how Tom Brady is too busy partying and jet-setting to address anything that could destroy his integrity (Oops!  There's that word again, "integrity".  That's a funny word, isn't it..."integrity"?  But, I digress...).

I actually tried to put myself in Brady's shoes:  "Hmmm.  Do I cooperate and try to save my reputation and my legacy, or do I...Nah!  I'm feelin' like a Mint Julep!  Kentucky, here I come!  Horsies! Horsies!"  And that tongue/braintwister thing you did at the end about scandal vs. media, and media vs. scandal was a nice touch...I couldn't make heads, or tails out of it, but chalk it up to a clever ending in your ploy.  Good job!

However, if by chance my evaluation is inaccurate, and these are sincere and serious posts from a mature adult, I'll conclude by stating that all the speculating and reaching is not going to do any good.  Tom Brady is now branded as a cheater!  His reputation and legacy is tarnished, as well  as the Patriots organization!  He will forever be thought of as having an asterisk (at least, a mental asterisk) attached to his NFL achievements, as will the Patriots organization!  He is no longer the NFL's "golden boy"!

Oh...and "The Reck Court" is a WRECK!!!

[RavenzOz]

Don't much at all about the NFL player rankings, their a popularity contest and nothing more. Doubt Joe cares either, see that relaxed smile on Joe's face in the article about him being "fired up"? that's a guy who's won a SB and SBMVP who feels he has nothing to prove to anyone and just works as hard as he can to be the best he can for the team, because that's what it's about at the end of the day.

 

To be honest I care more about the ineligible receiver declarations the Pat's used than about deflate-gate.

One, because the ineligible receiver declarations were done knowing full well it would confuse the hell out of the umpiring crew and not be efficiently communicated to the D.

Two, I reckon ball tampering probably happens a lot in the league, and ranks low on my list of concerns compared to steroidal PED's and such (which over and above being cheating are a genuine risk to the long term health of players)  ... my two cents, feel free to neg.

Edited May 8, 2015 by RavenzOz

[Purple&Black]

thinking Brady will get a harsh punishment is almost laughable. He may get 4 games max. Kraft has Goodell in his back pocket and Brady is the NFL's "poster child". I mean he has had what...3 rules changed for his benefit?

Edited May 8, 2015 by Purple&Black

[Grapple Raven]

Read the entire Wells report last night. Brady was far more directly involved than I thought the NFL would ever end up concluding...or maybe admitting. Wells exposed Brady as a liar as well as a cheater. Kudos to the Wells investigation for being fair and impartial. Now I want the NFL to bring down the hammer on the Golden Boy with the same force others have gotten for a lot less.

 

Well stated Salamander! Couldn't agree more.

[Ravensfolyfe]

After reading those long post i think i'm done reading for tonight.WHOOOO!

[alexbayrobin]

Wow I've never read so many long comments on this site. There are many patriot fans around here and they are friends of mine. They think nothing is very wrong with this. I don't argue with them but I think that along with the fact that they have been caught cheating before that they need to be punished severely.

[rmcjacket23]

1. The reward for deflating footballs was not winning the super bowl. It was a better chance at winning the super bowl, which is totally different. There are reasonable penalties that would outweigh that. MLB has significantly cleaned up its PED problem by imposing stricter testing and penalties, handing out season long suspensions for repeat offenders, proving that it works.  There will always be a few cheaters trying to get away with it, but they can make those players the exception rather than the rule by making the penalties significant.

 

2. All of that is completely subjective and your opinion, which is what you've been criticizing everyone else for. "shouldn't warrant such a punishment", "infractions that are minor", etc. Many people feel otherwise, and there is plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise.

 

3. This paragraph couldn't be more wrong. If the public had no power, do you really think do you think Goodell would have suddenly made Ray Rice's 2 game suspension indefinite the day the public saw the video? There were always NFL players committing domestic violence, but the NFL suddenly became much stricter on it and suddenly cared a lot more when a video went public. The fans on here aren't really claiming to have any power on the subject, anyway. They're just voicing their opinion, which is what I thought these boards are for.

 

 

4. I don't think the pure, injectable form of HGH is legal for anyone to obtain or take without a doctor's prescription, so I don't see how they could allow athletes to use it. It's a synthetic hormone that needs to be injected and causes drastic, unnatural changes, which is totally different than creatine or anything you get over the counter.

1. So if the reward of doing this was simply to obtain a "better chance" of winning the SB, then the punishment of a year suspension and whatever other radical sanctions are being proposed can only be described as exponentially harsh. To me, that's the equivalent of a five year jail sentence for getting caught with a joint for the first time. You might be sending a message, but its certainly not a valid message.

 

2. Goodell caved to the MEDIA, and specifically, sponsors, who are what really matters. If you want to argue that the public directly affects what sponsors decide to do, I mostly agree with that, but Goodell isn't even remotely considering what fanboard posters think in regards to the Ray Rice situation. I think the leader of a multi-billion dollar company is smart enough to know that the actions of his consumers means a lot more than the words of his consumers. When a single sponsor or two, who have the ability to alter the bottom line of the organization at the drop of a hat, voice displeasure regarding the situation, that's when Goodell listens.

 

Fans certainly share their opinions on here... and in some cases, especially with this topic, fans also for some reason have determined that they make DEMANDS also. My point was... when your demand is not met, what is your recourse? In my opinion, nothing, because the only recourse available to them is one they won't choose.

 

3. HGH, for the most part, isn't legal without prescription. But then again, neither is Adderall, and all of the sudden there's dozens of players annually who can obtain it legally from a doctor, despite not having a valid reason to use it. There's plenty of legal substances on the NFL's list of approved substances that require a doctors supervision and probably prescription to use. HGH is no different.

 

Whether it causes unnatural changes or not has no relevance to me, because its their body and they have to live with it... I don't. They are there for my entertainment, and if it can increase my level of entertainment, I support it.

[gooftroop]

That was a very close to slanderous newspaper article by a Boston writer commissioned by the Patriots press hit squad. The Patriots have and maintain an enemies list, the Ravens are on it.  

Not surprising. The Boston media (print, radio, and online) turn Whitey Bulger and relentlessly attack all who question the actions of their beloved Pats.

[gooftroop]

Don't much at all about the NFL player rankings, their a popularity contest and nothing more. Doubt Joe cares either, see that relaxed smile on Joe's face in the article about him being "fired up"? that's a guy who's won a SB and SBMVP who feels he has nothing to prove to anyone and just works as hard as he can to be the best he can for the team, because that's what it's about at the end of the day.

 

To be honest I care more about the ineligible receiver declarations the Pat's used than about deflate-gate.

One, because the ineligible receiver declarations were done knowing full well it would confuse the hell out of the umpiring crew and not be efficiently communicated to the D.

Two, I reckon ball tampering probably happens a lot in the league, and ranks low on my list of concerns compared to steroidal PED's and such (which over and above being cheating are a genuine risk to the long term health of players)  ... my two cents, feel free to neg.

And there's no doubt that it happened!

[slowboater]

@Damien Berry: I wouldn't mind driving a new Range Rover to Florida too. Too bad things like child support, a driver's license and no money have to get in the way.....

Time to grow up and face the music my man. Your kids, ex and the car dealer deserved better.

[gooftroop]

Jets game they were talking about Brady had 58% completion rate with higher pressure footballs. Brady has small hands. So does Garappalo...

 

Page number 20 of the report (page 24 of the pdf) is damning of the Patriots which says they didn't cooperate and are guilty of conduct detrimental to the league for failing to cooperate with the investigation. That fifth interview they denied and said was too much was requested because Wells team just got the texts from the phones and wanted to ask McNally what they meant. So Goodell has the means and proof to harshly go after Craft, the team and Brady just based on them failing to cooperate. We can only hope he punishes this serially cheating team harshly to stop the culture of cheating. 

By being less than cooperative Kraft&Co may have po'd the one guy they shouldn't have...

[rmcjacket23]

By being less than cooperative Kraft&Co may have po'd the one guy they shouldn't have...

Kraft is Goodell's boss. I'd be more concerned with Goodell upsetting Kraft than the other way around.