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Welcome to Baltimore, Breshad Perriman

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Perriman is basically a Torrey Smith clone with more size.I think he'll be used in all the same ways we used Torrey for the past four years.Alot of curls,post and go routes.

Disagree entirely. Perriman is bigger, stronger and faster.

He's got more talent than Torrey did entering the league. He's got more natural hands and better body control. Can go over the middle and make catches in traffic and is good in jump ball situations.

The comparison to Torrey is forced and only exists bc of Torrey leaving and the speed factor. But Perriman is quite a bit faster than Torrey and more versatile imo. I get why the comparison is there, but saying he's a "clone" is completely unfounded.

Comparisons in general are pretty useless especially considering Perriman has yet to play a snap in the NFL, but if you are to make one I'd say a more appropriate comparison would be to Demaryius Thomas, Julio Jones or maybe AJ Green.

He's an athletic freak who needs some refinement in route running but has the ability to not only be a deep threat but can become an all-around weapon and true #1 receiver. I love Torrey but his skill set doesn't translate the same way Breshad's can.

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He was both.And I'm not judging him off of just a handful of plays.Atleast 40-50 percent of his receptions weren't body catches.

That's a blatantly made up stat if I've ever seen one lol.

To me the point is not about what Torrey was capable of us versus BP after 4 years in the league. The comparison is about where they were coming into the league. Watching Torrey's senior highlight reel is a clinic in letting the ball get to your body and squandering YAC...and those are the highlights.

When BP catches the ball he plucks it out of the air. Even when it's coming dead down the middle he uses his hands to make the catch. Totally different catching technique.

As Torrey has proven, you can be successful in the league even as a body catcher and you can work on the bad habit with practice, but Perriman's catching technique vs. Torrey's coming into the league is a night and day comparison.

Otherwise the only thing comparable between the two is speed. Yes he will run some of the routes Torrey did, but his route tree should be far more various than Torrey's.

Edited by beasy2487
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Disagree entirely. Perriman is bigger, stronger and faster.

He's got more talent than Torrey did entering the league. He's got more natural hands and better body control. Can go over the middle and make catches in traffic and is good in jump ball situations.

The comparison to Torrey is forced and only exists bc of Torrey leaving and the speed factor. But Perriman is quite a bit faster than Torrey and more versatile imo. I get why the comparison is there, but saying he's a "clone" is completely unfounded.

Comparisons in general are pretty useless especially considering Perriman has yet to play a snap in the NFL, but if you are to make one I'd say a more appropriate comparison would be to Demaryius Thomas, Julio Jones or maybe AJ Green.

He's an athletic freak who needs some refinement in route running but has the ability to not only be a deep threat but can become an all-around weapon and true #1 receiver. I love Torrey but his skill set doesn't translate the same way Breshad's can.

 

 

Perrimans game is nothing like AJ Greens or Demaryius Thomas' game.AJ Green is the smoothest route runner in the league and he has good speed but he's not freakishly fast.Thomas is the quickest big man in the game.He's a 6 foot 3 220 pound guy but moves like you would expect a 5 foot 10 guy to move as far as shiftiness and elusiveness goes.You can't use those descriptions to describe Perriman.The Julio Jones comparison on the other hand is kind of close.I think Perriman and Torrey are both poor man versions of Jones.The only difference between them and Jones is they can't do some of the things he can do in short spaces.

Edited by HomeoftheBRAVENS
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Torrey not a hands catcher?

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I could make make a highlight video of the dozens of catches Torrey has caught with his hands away from his body.Stop judging him based on that one play.I will give you the fact that he was a little bit passive though.

If you can only find a couple dozen catches where he snatched the ball with his hands away from his body than that's just proving the argument that he's not a hands catcher.

A couple dozen with the hands vs 100-200 caught with the body is exactly why hes considered primarily a body/arms catcher. Don't get me wrong - a catch is a catch. Not knocking him for making receptions. The problem is how many targets did he miss being able to make a catch bc he waited for the ball to come into his body allowing time for the DB to make a play, or balls bobbled and dropped bc they bounced off his body.

Torrey was a great player for us and we don't win that SB without him. Best receiver we've drafted. I love him both as a player and a man. Making objective observations about his game and how he could have/should have improved does not mean that I or anyone else is a "hater."

Torrey is beloved and most were sad to see him go - but honestly we couldn't pay what he got to go to San Fran. That production can be replaced for a fraction of the cost.

And Perriman should be able to provide that threat of getting burned while offering much more in terms of a diverse route tree and being used on more than 9's, curls, and fades. Does Perriman have a lot of the same characteristics as Torrey? Sure. So you can compare those aspects.

But Perriman had the ability to offer much more. It's the same as saying Torrey and Julio Jones are comparable bc Julio had the speed and ability to beat the secondary deep. But that's where the comparison ends - like it does with Perriman.

Perriman may compare to Torrey in that he can replicate/replace a lot of what Torrey did. But Torrey does not compare to Perriman bc he doesn't have the natural hands, size/strength, overall talent, or body control that Perriman has that should allow him to develop into a complete receiver.

Torrey is an elite deep threat but may never become more than that. Perriman could become an elite deep threat as well as an elite overall receiver.

Again as a complete package he and Torrey compare in some ways, but that would be ignoring much of what Perriman can bring to the table. A much much more accurate comparison is Demaryius Thomas.

Their scouting reports entering the draft are almost IDENTICAL! We're drafted in similar positions, and have the natural ability/talent to overcome some of the knocks to become dominant all around receivers. Thomas has done that. Perriman has a great chance to follow that path and do the same.

I honestly just don't think Torrey has the tools to ever approach that sort of all around game, and therefore the comparison just falls flat. Early on, Perriman may be used in a similar role simply bc he's the only guy with the skill set to replicate what Torrey did for us; but over time you'll see why the comparison is very short sighted.

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That's a blatantly made up stat if I've ever seen one lol.

 

 

It's was an estimate.That's why I said "about" and not "exactly".

 

As for the rest of what you said,I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.I just don't see how anyone can look at Torrey's full body of work in the NFL and say he was purely a body catcher.

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Perrimans game is nothing like AJ Greens or Demaryius Thomas' game.AJ Green is the smoothest route runner in the league and he has good speed but he's not freakishly fast.Thomas is the quickest big man in the game.He's a 6 foot 3 220 pound guy but moves like you would expect a 5 foot 10 guy to move as far as shiftiness and elusiveness goes.You can't use those comparisons to describe Perriman.The Julio Jones comparison on the other hand is kind of close.I think Perriman and Torrey are both poor man versions of Jones.The only difference between them and Jones is they can't do some of the things he can do in short spaces.

Read the scouting reports on Perriman and Thomas. Darn near identical. Thomas has developed into what he is. He didn't enter the league that way.

Perriman has to this point not been in friendly situations for receivers and has had limited coaching on the finer points of playin the position (other than from his father). Given NFL coaching I think he'll fix some of the route running issues and develop an all around game very similar to DT.

I agree Green was a weaker comparison bc of how polished he is as a route runner. It was more so on how Perriman can be used similar to how Greens used in Cinci. Green uses technique/shiftiness to get open while Perriman will likely rely on power/speed but I can see the result being the same.

I don't think Torrey will ever be used in that way. He has difficulty beating press coverage bc he doesn't use his hands well and isn't strong enough, and is still struggling with telegraphing his routes like Perriman did In college. Problem is Torrey has had 4 years to correct it and hasn't. Perriman may or may not, but even if he can't he at least has the natural ability to overcome those issues with pure athleticism.

Torrey made some ridiculous catches but often needed separation to make catches bc he too often waits for the ball to come into his body. Perriman showed in college that he can make contested catches in traffic, out leaping/boxing out/or straight over powering defenders to the ball.

His floor is much higher than Torrey's. Torrey never came close to playing near his floor, but the problem is he may have reached his full potential already - which is not a bad thing, but he's somewhat limited and one dimensional. It's a very valuable dimension to an offense bc it creates so much space, but still is what it is.

I think Perriman's floor isn't too far shy of what Torrey is right now. But he at least has the potential to become a top tier receiver in the league and much more than just a deep threat.

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He is absolutely known as a body catcher!

http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2011/3/2/2024604/2011-nfl-draft-profile-torrey-smith

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/torrey-smith?id=2495459

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2011torreysmith_greg.php

Plenty more as well. Plus, you know, what you see on the actual field. Again, love the guy, just showing what he is...a body catcher.

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Torrey made some ridiculous catches but often needed separation to make catches bc he too often waits for the ball to come into his body. Perriman showed in college that he can make contested catches in traffic, out leaping/boxing out/or straight over powering defenders to the ball.

and that's exactly why I think had it been BP instead of Torrey on that last Interception in the divisional @ New England he would have came down with it no question.. He would have made the same exact throw look like joe put it right on the money. Like beasy said- Bp just plucks the ball out of the air. Torrey typically waits for it to come into his body, or outruns the ball and stutter steps and come back to it, making some of joes throws look off when infact they were perfect if he would just catch it in stride with his hands. That also would have resulted in more yards after the catch instead of stutter stepping and then leaping and getting tackled. Edited by January J
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Revisionist history to cover up Torrey's issues with his hands and consistent catching. He had it on his first and last day here. He made the spectacular play but also the tough drop, didn't drag his foot, etc. It was those instances that kept our team from matching the 49ers deal.

 

However, he's obviously an awesome guy, community member, and undoubtedly had a big impact on our team. Don't wish him anything but the best... unless he plays us again.

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While I agree that he is a body catcher and has average hands at best, I don't think I've ever seen anyone improve their hands as much as Torrey did each year. He worked hard and it paid off for him.

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Revisionist history to cover up Torrey's issues with his hands and consistent catching. He had it on his first and last day here. He made the spectacular play but also the tough drop, didn't drag his foot, etc. It was those instances that kept our team from matching the 49ers deal.

 

However, he's obviously an awesome guy, community member, and undoubtedly had a big impact on our team. Don't wish him anything but the best... unless he plays us again.

 

This exactly.  Torrey was very good at times for us, and like you said, I wish him nothing but the best.  I don't think anyone is really wrong in this debate.  There were times where Torrey looked like the potential superstar, #1 WR, and then there were times where he was the body catcher that other people have noticed.  He was inconsistent in his time here, but at the end of the day, he's a really good guy that I'll continue to be a fan of, except when he plays us.

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He is absolutely known as a body catcher!

http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2011/3/2/2024604/2011-nfl-draft-profile-torrey-smith

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/torrey-smith?id=2495459

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2011torreysmith_greg.php

Plenty more as well. Plus, you know, what you see on the actual field. Again, love the guy, just showing what he is...a body catcher.

 

 

He might've been a body catcher coming out of college,but he wasn't one during his time with us.

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Revisionist history to cover up Torrey's issues with his hands and consistent catching. He had it on his first and last day here. He made the spectacular play but also the tough drop, didn't drag his foot, etc. It was those instances that kept our team from matching the 49ers deal.

 

However, he's obviously an awesome guy, community member, and undoubtedly had a big impact on our team. Don't wish him anything but the best... unless he plays us again.

 

 

I'm not even trying to say he didn't have trouble being consistent with making catches at times.I'm just saying he wasn't strictly or purely a body catcher.

Edited by HomeoftheBRAVENS
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I don't even remember how the conversation got to this point.My original comment was that Breshad Perriman played like a larger version of Torrey Smith.Both struggle with their hands,both are long striders,both have more straight line speed than short area quickness and both run a limited route tree.

Edited by HomeoftheBRAVENS
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I don't even remember how the conversation got to this point.My original comment was that Breshad Perriman played like a larger version of Torrey Smith.Both struggle with their hands,both are long striders,both have more straight line speed than short area quickness and both run a limited route tree.

And you are convinced of all this how again?

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I don't even remember how the conversation got to this point.My original comment was that Breshad Perriman played like a larger version of Torrey Smith.Both struggle with their hands,both are long striders,both have more straight line speed than short area quickness and both run a limited route tree.

Perriman however used his hands more in college, he would just drop some passes.  Torrey actually had a pretty good drop rate in college, but didn't use his hands to catch.  He pretty much got wide opened and caught with his arms.  Perriman consistently used his hands, but he would have some ugly concentration drops.  The typical ugly turn your head before catching to make a move.  Perriman is also much much more physical.  He plays his size at the LOS.  That's the big thing with torrey, you could jam him because he wasn't a really strong physical guy.  His LOS play was always pretty average.  

 

That being said I don't think either are really great WCO fits.  Perriman is a better prospect inherently because of his size and equal if not superior speed.

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I'm not even trying to say he didn't have trouble being consistent with making catches at times.I'm just saying he wasn't strictly or purely a body catcher.

 

Gotcha, I think when people use the term 'body catcher' they mean that he had inconsistent hands and relied on using his chest to secure the pass more often than he should have. Not an every time thing but enough to be noticeable and lead to some drops.

 

I'll speculate that Torrey's hand size had something to do with that, one of the links 1/28/01 also pointed that out. Torrey's hands are 8 and 5/8", Breshad's are 9 and 1/4".

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He was both.And I'm not judging him off of just a handful of plays.Atleast 40-50 percent of his receptions weren't body catches.

if 50% of your catches are hands catches, then guess what, youre a body catcher. 

 

a natural hands catcher is gonna have EASILY more than 75% of his receptions be hands, because it is second nature for those guys to reach out and secure it with their hands, and it has been more than proven that catching with your hands is by far the most effective way. 

 

if you are letting the ball fly into your body and try to cover it up with your forearms, or let it drop into your forearms on 50% of your receptions, then you are nowhere near a hands catcher and you need to work on your craft as a WR.

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Body catcher, hand catcher, whatever, Torrey was a great player for us, is a great guy and as a fellow Terp I will always root for him. But let's not kid ourselves. He had some inexplicable lapses, one of which hurt the team's chances of going to the SB.

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He might've been a body catcher coming out of college,but he wasn't one during his time with us.

You're actually serious? You really think Torrey was/is a hands catcher since becoming a professional? I mean, no biggie. Its your opinion and you're entitled to one...no matter how wrong it is ;)

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I don't even remember how the conversation got to this point.My original comment was that Breshad Perriman played like a larger version of Torrey Smith.Both struggle with their hands,both are long striders,both have more straight line speed than short area quickness and both run a limited route tree.

but, in all those areas, perriman as a rookie is STILL superior to torrey as a 4 year vet. 

lets make a checklist... 

 

speed: perriman 

size: perriman 

ability to break on routes: perriman(though still not an impressive aspect of his game) 

physicality at the LOS: perriman, one of his better refinements, FARRR superior here

ball tracking: perriman 

high pointing: perriman by far 

contested catch: perriman by far 

acrobatic catch: perriman by far 

catch-and-run: perriman 

"attacking" the ball: perriman by far by far by far by far(yes, he is much better here) 

catching in traffic: perriman by far 

mean streak during YAC: perriman by far 

separation: cant say here, both have inconsistencies in this area but their speed helps 

acceleration: even. 

 

not trying to bash torrey, but perriman is better than torrey in literally every single aspect, and in many aspects he is miles ahead of him. 

 

stop taking factual evidence gathered from visual analysis and making it out to be another case of drinkin' the haterade, its really not the case.

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Ok I think I get it now lol.This has nothing to do with the fact that I compared Perriman to Torrey and everything to do with the fact that Torrey is a hated man now.Whew,thought I was going crazy for being the only one who sees the similarities.

Torrey is not a hated man. Well to some maybr but not to most. People are just pointing out the facts. He wasnt a pure hands catcher. Yes he had some hands catches but most of his catches were sloppy. I will give him credit though. He did get better with his mechanics every year. He was extremely passive. He gave up consistently on his routes-especially towards the middle of field. I think Perriman is significantly better coming out of college the Torrey was and has a higher ceiling. I dont see much similarities between the two really. Someone pointed out the hes similar to DT. I agree with that.

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No need to quote and pile on at this point, but just to retrace our steps:

-The point was made that BP is a "Smith clone with more size"

-In other words, BP and Smith are exactly the same, but Perriman is bigger

-This point has now been debunked in every possible way

Now Perriman just has to prove us right.

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I'll speculate that Torrey's hand size had something to do with that, one of the links 1/28/01 also pointed that out. Torrey's hands are 8 and 5/8", Breshad's are 9 and 1/4".

I shook his hand at a signing one time.  Yeah his hands ARE tiny.  Almost like that guy in the Burger King commercial. 

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but, in all those areas, perriman as a rookie is STILL superior to torrey as a 4 year vet. 

lets make a checklist... 

 

speed: perriman 

size: perriman 

ability to break on routes: perriman(though still not an impressive aspect of his game) 

physicality at the LOS: perriman, one of his better refinements, FARRR superior here

ball tracking: perriman 

high pointing: perriman by far 

contested catch: perriman by far 

acrobatic catch: perriman by far 

catch-and-run: perriman 

"attacking" the ball: perriman by far by far by far by far(yes, he is much better here) 

catching in traffic: perriman by far 

mean streak during YAC: perriman by far 

separation: cant say here, both have inconsistencies in this area but their speed helps 

acceleration: even. 

 

not trying to bash torrey, but perriman is better than torrey in literally every single aspect, and in many aspects he is miles ahead of him. 

 

stop taking factual evidence gathered from visual analysis and making it out to be another case of drinkin' the haterade, its really not the case.

 

 

Alot of the attributes on your list can be given to Torrey(Torrey can't track a deep ball?Really?) unless you're talking about Torrey coming out of college and the majority of them are just things a big WR can do and I've already said he's Torrey WITH size.I noticed you didn't add any of the things they have in common to your list like hands problems,both running a limited route tree,both only having straight line speed,both lacking shiftiness and both actually being close in size.Perriman is only 1 inch taller and a few pounds heavier.As I said,Torrey and Perriman share alot of traits but you just gave the nod to Perriman.That's why I see it as people just knocking Torrey.Can you atleast admit that does happen often because of that last play?You have your OPINION based on "visual analysis and I have mine.I'll leave it at that.

Edited by HomeoftheBRAVENS
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I'm not even trying to say he didn't have trouble being consistent with making catches at times.I'm just saying he wasn't strictly or purely a body catcher.

Of course he wasn't, that would imply him catching 0% of his receptions with his hands. That's obviously not the case, but let's assume he caught 75-80% of his receptions using his body/arms - I'd say that still makes him a predominant body catcher.

PS. Love Torrey to bits and I can't wait to watch Perriman soar by his 2nd/3rd season.   

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Alot of the attributes on your list can be given to Torrey(Torrey can't track a deep ball?Really?) unless you're talking about Torrey coming out of college and the majority of them are just things a big WR can do and I've already said he's Torrey WITH size.I noticed you didn't add any of the things they have in common to your list like hands problems,both running a limited route tree,both only having straight line speed,both lacking shiftiness and both actually being close in size.Perriman is only 1 inch taller and a few pounds heavier.As I said,Torrey and Perriman share alot of traits but you just gave the nod to Perriman.That's why I see it as people just knocking Torrey.Can you atleast admit that does happen often because of that last play?You have your OPINION based on "visual analysis and I have mine.I'll leave it at that.

 

give it up lol.

 

ive read both their scouting reports and they are pretty similar.

heck perriman appears to have more weaknesses coming out then torrey especially when it comes to their hands.

 

nfl.com actually had torrey graded higher and strength wise torrey appeared to have more reps on the bench press and he appeared to have a higher vertical as well.

 

torrey is 6`0 with a 41 inch vertical while beshad is 6`2 with a 36.5 vertical.

 

TBH the only real difference between them is that perriman ran a 4.24 40 time to go with his 6`2 which made him a 1st rounder.

 

if his time was any slower he would had the same round projection as torrey which would be an early 2nd rounder.

 

their strengths and weaknesses are pretty similar.

 

perriman has been compared to DT,Jeffrey and Gordon but then again also to stephen hill and kenny britt which some conveniently forget to mention lol

 

breshad combine report: http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/breshad-perriman?id=2552597

torrey combine report:  http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/torrey-smith?id=2495459

breshad after draft with pro day results : http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/breshad-perriman?id=2552597

 

now notice how his grade got higher now that it shows his pro day 40 time lol.

 

TBH im not sure which reports they read or if they are just going by their own eye test but i have no idea what they seem to be talking about.

 

one trick pony, not attacking the ball , slow hands , not good at boxin out , not using his size well, trouble beating out starting caliber cbs, not physical enough; all points of criticism that fell on torrey  yet same things are said in scouting reports about breshad whether you read nfl.com, waltersfootball,bleacher or even baltimore beatdown.

 

id love to know what reports they where reading that clearly paint a picture that breshad is in no way or shape similar to torrey but i highly doubt they can produce 1.

 

if i where you i would just drop it cause its just like  :deadhorse:

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but, in all those areas, perriman as a rookie is STILL superior to torrey as a 4 year vet.

lets make a checklist...

speed: perriman

size: perriman

ability to break on routes: perriman(though still not an impressive aspect of his game)

physicality at the LOS: perriman, one of his better refinements, FARRR superior here

ball tracking: perriman

high pointing: perriman by far

contested catch: perriman by far

acrobatic catch: perriman by far

catch-and-run: perriman

"attacking" the ball: perriman by far by far by far by far(yes, he is much better here)

catching in traffic: perriman by far

mean streak during YAC: perriman by far

separation: cant say here, both have inconsistencies in this area but their speed helps

acceleration: even.

not trying to bash torrey, but perriman is better than torrey in literally every single aspect, and in many aspects he is miles ahead of him.

stop taking factual evidence gathered from visual analysis and making it out to be another case of drinkin' the haterade, its really not the case.

Let's be honest here:

1. He's a rookie.

2. Let's not pretend that Perriman's unofficial 40 time wasn't a fluke. He plays 3 times slower in actual games. If he really runs at 4.27 speed he wouldn't be caught from behind all the time and he'd look like a Desean Jackson on steroids. I just don't see him being the down field threat that we think he will.

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At the end of the day nobody knows how good or bad Perriman is because he hasn't taken a snap that counts in the NFL yet. I'm always amazed at how people can definitively say how good or bad a rookie will be. Torrey Smith improved greatly from his days as a Terp, but never quite developed into a well rounded #1 but he's a heck of a #2 guy especially for what you ask of him. Torrey improved tremendously just from training camp to a few weeks later breaking out vs the Rams. There no telling how Perriman will respond and develop to pro coaching/practice.

Also the hands vs body catcher thing is so over blown imo. Derrick Mason was a body catcher, in fact guys like Michael Irvin teaches guys to be body catchers, especially across the middle of the field, so I'm not sure why it's such a big deal. Torrey had both body and hand catches. When he was given the chance to run slants and speed out routes he did a fine job catching with his hands. He just didn't run those routes often.

I've said many times. Listening to the coaches, especially Trestman they see Perriman as a Alshon Jeffery type. A guy that's used all over the field not just on speed routes. The natural assumption is that Perriman is here to replace Torrey and I'm sure the speed played a role. However from everything I've heard Perriman is here because the Ravens see a top line WR they can pair with Flacco and build a strong WR corp around. That's something they were never able to do with Torrey because he never developed into that top guy. At the point in there careers both Boldin and Smitty should have been #2 WRs, hell Smitty even said that coming in, however Torrey couldn't be relied upon as that top guy. I gotta believe the Ravens are looking for more from Perriman.

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Being a body catcher is detrimental to a guy like Torrey because his bread and butter is the 9 route. If a guy can work the short-intermediate it's not as much of an issue but when you're a pure deep threat like Torrey you need to be able to extend your arms and haul in the ball. Torrey was great at drawing PI's but the vast majority of his catches of 20+ yds came when he had enough separation that he could run underneath the ball and look it in using his body to facilitate the catch. 

 

Guys like Calvin, Dez, and DT will catch a much higher percentage of those deep balls not just because of their height but also because if the ball is thrown out in front of them they can extend their arms and snatch the ball out of the air only using their hands.Deep ball accuracy is tough for even the best QB's, the ball isn't always going to be pinpoint at 20+ yds and when you have a guy like Perriman who can attack the ball and use his hands to reel in the ball it's a game changer.

 

I think the best catch Torrey every made was week 17 last year against the Browns. It stood out so much because it was one of the few times in his career Torrey successfully attacked a deep ball and made a play with just his hands. I remember everyone in the bank went nuts because it was such an uncharacteristic play from Torrey. 

 

2:19

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBaG8MHUvbE

Edited by sflegend89
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