Welcome to Baltimore, Breshad Perriman

[BmoreBird22]

Something to consider with Perriman's drops and seeming lack of production is the QB throwing to him.  I'm pretty sure WVU runs a pro-style offense or at least pro-style route concepts, so the comparison to Kevin White is fair - White's quarterback completed 67 percent of his passes last year, where Perriman's completed just 56 percent of his.  White had a better quarterback, so it stands to reason that he probably saw a better quality of throw on a consistent basis and thus had more receptions and fewer drops.

WVU ran a spread offense designed to get their wide receivers the balls in space so they could make plays. It's also a very air it out and wide receiver friendly offense from a production standpoint. White will have some kinks to work out in the NFL.

[polynesian15]

How much weight, if any, do you think Breshad will add in the NFL?

[ravensnick]

How much weight, if any, do you think Breshad will add in the NFL?

Won't need to add much or any. He's pretty good at 212 lbs. 

[JoeyFlex5]

A couple newbie questions for you:

You say he runs the full route tree, still he is supposedly a very raw route runner/bad route runner according to various sources. Is it just that his routes need to be tighter, smoother?

And another thing I've been puzzling over. How come an athlete who's been playing football for most his life wouldn't be able to run the full route tree? (E.g. Are some receivers unable to turn left like Derek Zoolander )

i lol'ed at the zoolander line! 

 

but anyway, he has the ability to run the full route tree, and his route game isnt terrible right now, its just little nuances that many receivers dont learn without proper coaching, he telegraphs his routes from time to time. for instance, lets say the db gives him 10 yards of cushion and hes running a deep slant, he will start trying to shake off the db before he even eats up half the cushion, giving the db a hint that hes gonna break early and allowing him to jump the route, also letting the db know that the deep route isnt coming and he needs to close in. or lets say hes running a 9 route with 10 yards of cushion again, instead of keeping the db on his toes he will put his head down and stomp on the gas, letting the db know its gonna be a footrace. its very subtle things that can be the difference between an elite wr and a good wr and should be easily coachable unless hes a complete idiot lol. 

 

he does have alot of the little things that many college wr's dont have though, he is the best wr in this draft when it comes to hand fighting with the db's in close quarters, it just seems to come natural for him to be able to beat the hell out of press coverage with his hands while still running his route properly, thats a part of his game that he is ahead of the learning curve.

 

also his hands may not be as bad as advertised, people really need to think about the passes he was catching, god awful qb play to say the least, i almost feel bad for him having to spend a whole season bailing his qb out like that.

[JoeyFlex5]

WVU ran a spread offense designed to get their wide receivers the balls in space so they could make plays. It's also a very air it out and wide receiver friendly offense from a production standpoint. White will have some kinks to work out in the NFL.

this. i think kevin white was seriously overrated and i think he is more raw than perriman. i still think he is the 2nd or 3rd wr in the class based on ceiling alone, but i think his bust potential is riskier than our guy to be honest

[polynesian15]

i lol'ed at the zoolander line! 

 

but anyway, he has the ability to run the full route tree, and his route game isnt terrible right now, its just little nuances that many receivers dont learn without proper coaching, he telegraphs his routes from time to time. for instance, lets say the db gives him 10 yards of cushion and hes running a deep slant, he will start trying to shake off the db before he even eats up half the cushion, giving the db a hint that hes gonna break early and allowing him to jump the route, also letting the db know that the deep route isnt coming and he needs to close in. or lets say hes running a 9 route with 10 yards of cushion again, instead of keeping the db on his toes he will put his head down and stomp on the gas, letting the db know its gonna be a footrace. its very subtle things that can be the difference between an elite wr and a good wr and should be easily coachable unless hes a complete idiot lol. 

 

he does have alot of the little things that many college wr's dont have though, he is the best wr in this draft when it comes to hand fighting with the db's in close quarters, it just seems to come natural for him to be able to beat the hell out of press coverage with his hands while still running his route properly, thats a part of his game that he is ahead of the learning curve.

 

also his hands may not be as bad as advertised, people really need to think about the passes he was catching, god awful qb play to say the least, i almost feel bad for him having to spend a whole season bailing his qb out like that.

Thanks for the break down Joey, very informative.

So in other words he just needs to sell his routes better: bait the DB and keep him guessing. Hopefully he'll take well to coaching, if so Engram and Smitty are the guys for the job.

Man, I can't wait for video updates from camp!!

How about his weight, am I the only one who'd like for him to get to a neat 220lbs as long as it doesn't affect his athleticism and agility.

[JoeyFlex5]

Thanks for the break down Joey, very informative.

So in other words he just needs to sell his routes better: bait the DB and keep him guessing. Hopefully he'll take well to coaching, if so Engram and Smitty are the guys for the job.

Man, I can't wait for video updates from camp!!

How about his weight, am I the only one who'd like for him to get to a neat 220lbs as long as it doesn't affect his athleticism and agility.

at 6'2"+ his 212 is fine, he carries his frame very well and any additional weight could really hinder his agility and explosiveness, he is already very physical and aggressive and getting outmuscled is just not on his list of concerns, hes a big guy and uses that size excellently.

[ellicottraven]

at 6'2"+ his 212 is fine, he carries his frame very well and any additional weight could really hinder his agility and explosiveness, he is already very physical and aggressive and getting outmuscled is just not on his list of concerns, hes a big guy and uses that size excellently.

Muhammed Ali's fighting weight was 212 lbs! So this is perfect!

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Perriman's problem isn't with his hands, it's with his concentration. That is potentially fixable, but it's going to take awhile to instill the good habit while ridding himself of that bad one. You have to keep in mind he didn't start playing until he was a junior in high school because he had an inherited knee condition that didn't clear up until he was older, and he's only 21 years old. He's young, somewhat inexperienced and so of course he's going to be raw. But he has the tools, the talent, and the bloodlines. Although I liked Agholor or Devin Smith more (because they don't have the concentration issue) I'm still high on Perriman. He's definitely an improvement over Torrey when he was a rookie. Like Torrey was as a rookie, he'll be our #2 WR by season's end.

[JoeyFlex5]

Perriman's problem isn't with his hands, it's with his concentration. That is potentially fixable, but it's going to take awhile to instill the good habit while ridding himself of that bad one. You have to keep in mind he didn't start playing until he was a junior in high school because he had an inherited knee condition that didn't clear up until he was older, and he's only 21 years old. He's young, somewhat inexperienced and so of course he's going to be raw. But he has the tools, the talent, and the bloodlines. Although I liked Agholor or Devin Smith more (because they don't have the concentration issue) I'm still high on Perriman. He's definitely an improvement over Torrey when he was a rookie. Like Torrey was as a rookie, he'll be our #2 WR by season's end.

id even say hes an upgrade over year 4 torrey. many of torreys problems coming out were never fixed, in year 4 he was still body catching most passes, and he never developed the aggressive mentality to go up and get it, he was way too passive of a player coming out and he stayed that way. 

[Sami84]

we keep on talking about his Size and speed over torrey..

 

what honestly separates him potentially from Darrius Heyward Bey who is very similar in traits and athletic ability…?

[BmoreBird22]

we keep on talking about his Size and speed over torrey..

 

what honestly separates him potentially from Darrius Heyward Bey who is very similar in traits and athletic ability…?

Heyward Bey wasn't actually a good catcher of the ball, often double catching it. He didn't go up and fight for the ball, even though he had good athletic ability. Offered nothing across the middle and was pretty much only a vertical threat. Was not much of a blocker at all. Heyward Bey actually only played football to make friends and coaches at Maryland told him to try something else.

[JoeyFlex5]

we keep on talking about his Size and speed over torrey..

what honestly separates him potentially from Darrius Heyward Bey who is very similar in traits and athletic ability…?

everything.

seriously though, DHB was garbage and everyone knew it at the time except for al davis. he had absolutely no ability to do anything more than run a straight line. he could not get his hands out to catch the ball and expected to do everything with his arms and body, he had no suddenness or shiftiness at all, no verticals, no body control, no hands ability, no YAC ability, just sprint down the field and hope the qb can drop it right into his forearms and prey he can hold on, that is all DHB ever had to offer.

perriman has much more overall athleticism, better reach, explosion, body control, tracking, adjustment, and he even plucks the ball with his hands much better than DHB or even torrey for that matter, it is merely a focus issue and a matter of having pitiful qb play delivering poorly placed throws, you can see he is stellar at adjusting to poorly thrown balls all over the field and getting his hands on them, and more often than not he hold onto them, its just that on occasion he doesnt fully execute the "catch and run". i believe he will more than make up for the occasional drop with overall great production. the bigger concern to me is that he is lacking the ability to sell his routes, he telegraphs his routes on occasion with bad shoulder and head movements, i think as a rookie that will be a bigger issue than his hands, but its a very coachable issue.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Moderator 3
Skip the personal attacks

[Sami84]

This isn't an elam situation. I believe perriman can be a stud..but i just worry about combine warriors. Perriman wasn't going to be a first round pick until he destroyed the workout. 

 

I guess the fact we got Maxx williams makes this easy..i honestly wouldn't have been upset with Williams in the first.

 

so we got two guys..one who I'm certain is a pro bowl TE the other a guy that maybe just might be the guy we needed for a while

[Sami84]

Heyward Bey wasn't actually a good catcher of the ball, often double catching it. He didn't go up and fight for the ball, even though he had good athletic ability. Offered nothing across the middle and was pretty much only a vertical threat. Was not much of a blocker at all. Heyward Bey actually only played football to make friends and coaches at Maryland told him to try something else.

 

thats true.

[PolishRifle]

This isn't an elam situation. I believe perriman can be a stud..but i just worry about combine warriors. Perriman wasn't going to be a first round pick until he destroyed the workout. 

 

I guess the fact we got Maxx williams makes this easy..i honestly wouldn't have been upset with Williams in the first.

 

so we got two guys..one who I'm certain is a pro bowl TE the other a guy that maybe just might be the guy we needed for a while

 

I think it's all understandable. I'm sceptic of draft risers also. Perriman better spend alot of time at the Jugs machine. He needs alot of work.

[Ravenslifer]

we keep on talking about his Size and speed over torrey..

 

what honestly separates him potentially from Darrius Heyward Bey who is very similar in traits and athletic ability…?

 

Heyward-Bey was a track star that Maryland coaches thought they could develop into a receiver.  Torrey Smith as a freshman accomplished more as a receiver than Heyward-Bey.  If you're going to compare receivers, consider that Heyward Bey never put up more than 700 yards receiving in any of the three years he was at Maryland.  Perriman had a decent first year as a starter with 800 yards, and that was with Blake Bortles passing - fast forward one year, and he puts up almost 1100 yards and 9 TDs.  Now consider the fact that Bortles had a great year in 2013, completing 68 percent of his passes for 3600 yards, and the kid who replaced him, Justin Holman, completed less than 57 percent of his passes for less than 3000 yards.  So despite a significant drop off in quarterback play Perriman had a much better year.  He proved he could produce with a struggling quarterback, something Heyward-Bey never did.

[D-Rey]

This isn't an elam situation. I believe perriman can be a stud..but i just worry about combine warriors. Perriman wasn't going to be a first round pick until he destroyed the workout. 

 

I guess the fact we got Maxx williams makes this easy..i honestly wouldn't have been upset with Williams in the first.

 

so we got two guys..one who I'm certain is a pro bowl TE the other a guy that maybe just might be the guy we needed for a while

Actually the Ravens FO said they had him pegged as a first rounder before the combine. They said the world noticed what they noticed after the combine.

[Sami84]

Heyward-Bey was a track star that Maryland coaches thought they could develop into a receiver.  Torrey Smith as a freshman accomplished more as a receiver than Heyward-Bey.  If you're going to compare receivers, consider that Heyward Bey never put up more than 700 yards receiving in any of the three years he was at Maryland.  Perriman had a decent first year as a starter with 800 yards, and that was with Blake Bortles passing - fast forward one year, and he puts up almost 1100 yards and 9 TDs.  Now consider the fact that Bortles had a great year in 2013, completing 68 percent of his passes for 3600 yards, and the kid who replaced him, Justin Holman, completed less than 57 percent of his passes for less than 3000 yards.  So despite a significant drop off in quarterback play Perriman had a much better year.  He proved he could produce with a struggling quarterback, something Heyward-Bey never did.

 

yeh…I'm feeling the pick more..i have doubts..i think the safest bets in the WR position were cooper and Parker..i guess i like to see polish..what excites me about maxx williams is that i haven't seen a tight end in a long time at his age who is so well rounded..if he's this good at just 20-21 imagine how much better he's going to be.

[Ravenslifer]

yeh…I'm feeling the pick more..i have doubts..i think the safest bets in the WR position were cooper and Parker..i guess i like to see polish..what excites me about maxx williams is that i haven't seen a tight end in a long time at his age who is so well rounded..if he's this good at just 20-21 imagine how much better he's going to be.

 

You could also look at it this way - Breshad is much more pro-ready at this point than Torrey was.  He's also not only got SSS next to him, he's got young guys like Camp, Marlon, Kamar in here who know the growing pains of being an NFL wide receiver and how to best overcome them.  He has a much better WR coach here than Torrey had initially, a guy who built a career out of getting the most out of his limited physical traits in Bobby Engram.  You mentioned Maxx - Maxx is very pro ready, IMO, plus we have Crockett who I think is going to have a good year and potentially Dennis.  Breshad has a QB in Joe who is going into his 8th year and has spent the last 4 years learning how to play with younger and more inexperienced receivers, whereas when Torrey had Joe all Joe had ever known was how to throw to Heap, Mason, and Boldin.  We've got a great running game in place, which is something we struggled with at times over Torrey's career in Baltimore.

 

So not only does Breshad have a good place to learn to play the game, he's also in a situation where he's not going to be forced to be "the guy" from day one, which will allow him to make a lot of strides without the kind of pressure Torrey had to deal with here.  Was he a more risky pick than others we could have made, yes, but I definitely think he's less of a risk than Torrey was coming out, and I think he's in a situation that's going to allow him to be more successful than Torrey was here.

[PerpetuallyBored74]

This isn't an elam situation. I believe perriman can be a stud..but i just worry about combine warriors. Perriman wasn't going to be a first round pick until he destroyed the workout. 

 

I guess the fact we got Maxx williams makes this easy..i honestly wouldn't have been upset with Williams in the first.

 

so we got two guys..one who I'm certain is a pro bowl TE the other a guy that maybe just might be the guy we needed for a while

 

He wasn't going to be a 1st round pick until there was a run on WRs throughout the 1st round. He was the 5th WR taken out of 6. How often are 6 WRs taken in the 1st round? Last year, with a historic crop of talent at WR, five were taken in the 1st round. The year before there were only 3, and in 2012 there were 4. Remember how Agholor and Dorsett were initially projected to be 2nd rounders too? Also when Strong fell out of the top 4 WRs (and out of the 1st round) that moved the others up one spot. Perriman was picked where he should have been, at #26. He was the BPA at that point as the other defensive guys we were hoping to snag were already taken.

[polynesian15]

Torrey had 50 receptions, 841 yards and 7 TD's his rookie year in 14 starts.

Now, can we all agree that Perriman as rookie dominates Torrey (as a rookie) in pretty much every category?
 

• Better hands - Torrey usually always let's it into his body some way or another. Perriman plucks it, and is eager to show prove the nay sayers wrong about the focus drops.
• More developed route runner - it doesn't take much to trump Torrey there does it?
• More grit - doesn't shy away over the middle, fights for jump balls, runs through tackles, gains yac etc.
• Bigger, faster, stronger - should be conducive to more production all other factors taken into consideration.
   

There's probably more but I'm blank at the moment. Then take into consideration that our O line is hella strong recently, and Joe has become much better the last 4 years. Our offense in general has been trending upwards the last couple of seasons - post Cam Cameron really.

Give me one reason why Perriman wouldn't produce those numbers, at least, if given the same opportunity and avoiding major injury.
Instead of glass half empty, let's give the guy a couple of seasons to prove his worth. 

[Ravenslifer]

Torrey had 50 receptions, 841 yards and 7 TD's his rookie year in 14 starts.

Now, can we all agree that Perriman as rookie dominates Torrey (as a rookie) in pretty much every category?

 

• Better hands - Torrey usually always let's it into his body some way or another. Perriman plucks it, and is eager to show prove the nay sayers wrong about the focus drops.
• More developed route runner - it doesn't take much to trump Torrey there does it?
• More grit - doesn't shy away over the middle, fights for jump balls, runs through tackles, gains yac etc.
• Bigger, faster, stronger - should be conducive to more production all other factors taken into consideration.

   

There's probably more but I'm blank at the moment. Then take into consideration that our O line is hella strong recently, and Joe has become much better the last 4 years. Our offense in general has been trending upwards the last couple of seasons - post Cam Cameron really.

Give me one reason why Perriman wouldn't produce those numbers, at least, if given the same opportunity and avoiding major injury.

Instead of glass half empty, let's give the guy a couple of seasons to prove his worth. 

 

That's what stood out to me the most when I compared Perriman in 2014 to Torrey's tape at Maryland in 2010.  Torrey on almost every play I saw him in basically waited until the ball was in his chest and then tried to hold it there - he only used his hands first when he had to stretch out for a pass that was above him or off to the side.  Perriman highpointed the ball a lot and it looked like he often reached out with his hands to snatch the ball before it hit his chest.  

[JoeyFlex5]

breshad perriman was in consideration for early 2nd late 1st round all along, his tape is more than enough to justify that, his workouts just solidified his status. 

 

i just think that after seeing some of the wr's who have came in and succeeded that we cant just look at his issues and say hes gonna bust, he immediately looks way better than kelvin benjamin, torrey, and in my opinion he looks about equal or better than alshon jeffrey and demaryius thomas than all of them looked coming out of college, and all of them were serviceable at least as rookies and all of them proceeded to be very, very productive.

[GrimCoconut]

we keep on talking about his Size and speed over torrey..

what honestly separates him potentially from Darrius Heyward Bey who is very similar in traits and athletic ability…?

Perriman catches with his hands and comes from a pro style offense, which is huge.

[Cville-Raven]

Perriman catches with his hands and comes from a pro style offense, which is huge.

exactly

[allblackraven]

He wasn't going to be a 1st round pick until there was a run on WRs throughout the 1st round. He was the 5th WR taken out of 6. How often are 6 WRs taken in the 1st round? Last year, with a historic crop of talent at WR, five were taken in the 1st round. The year before there were only 3, and in 2012 there were 4. Remember how Agholor and Dorsett were initially projected to be 2nd rounders too? Also when Strong fell out of the top 4 WRs (and out of the 1st round) that moved the others up one spot. Perriman was picked where he should have been, at #26. He was the BPA at that point as the other defensive guys we were hoping to snag were already taken.

 

If he really was 15th ranked player on the Ravens board, he was always going to be picked in 1st round, unless some of the 14 players ahead of him slid.

 

Your logic is flawed - Strong was rated 1st rounder only by mock boards and obviously not by teams. Same, in reverse direction, goes for Agholor and Dorsett.

[PerpetuallyBored74]

If he really was 15th ranked player on the Ravens board, he was always going to be picked in 1st round, unless some of the 14 players ahead of him slid.

 

Your logic is flawed - Strong was rated 1st rounder only by mock boards and obviously not by teams. Same, in reverse direction, goes for Agholor and Dorsett.

 

Where a guy gets picked depends on where teams think they can take him where he is still available. Just because the Ravens had him rated high doesn't mean that they wouldn't have tried to trade back for more picks if they thought he'd still be there early in the 2nd round which is where he would have been if there wasn't that run on WRs--again 6 in the 1st round. That's why the Ravens grabbed him at #26, because they knew he wouldn't be there much longer. Three more WRs were taken among the first 9 picks in the 2nd round, then the run on them ended. With 9 WRs taken during the first 41 picks for 22% of the first 41 picks. Nearly 1 out of 4 picks were WRs.

 

You do have a point though about Strong, I'll give you that. But Perriman would have been the first or second guy taken in the 2nd round if teams hadn't started a run on WRs. Because normally that's where the 5th best WR is drafted.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Where a guy gets picked depends on where teams think they can take him where he is still available. Just because the Ravens had him rated high doesn't mean that they wouldn't have tried to trade back for more picks if they thought he'd still be there early in the 2nd round which is where he would have been if there wasn't that run on WRs--again 6 in the 1st round. That's why the Ravens grabbed him at #26, because they knew he wouldn't be there much longer. Three more WRs were taken among the first 9 picks in the 2nd round, then the run on them ended. With 9 WRs taken during the first 41 picks for 22% of the first 41 picks. Nearly 1 out of 4 picks were WRs.

You do have a point though about Strong, I'll give you that. But Perriman would have been the first or second guy taken in the 2nd round if teams hadn't started a run on WRs. Because normally that's where the 5th best WR is drafted.

It doesn't matter where the 5th best wr is usually taken. All that matters is this draft, this crop of players, and where teams had him rated.

There wasn't a run on WR's in the sense that teams reached for players to fill need. Cooper, White and Parker were always going to be taken high. They were consensus top 10-15 picks.

He was the highest rated player on our board, and you said that if they felt they could trade back and still land him they would have. Clearly they didn't think they could do that which only bolsters the argument that Perriman was rated across the board as a 1st round pick and was going to go in the 1st whether we took him at 26 or not.

Our FO had him rated as the 15th best prospect in the entire draft and they clearly felt that most teams had him rated around there and would have taken him as the BPA.

[GrimCoconut]

One thing I learned is we didn't value Brown, Dorsett, Harold, Smith, OO as I thought we would. If we did, then we wouldn't have said we'd have traded back if Perriman was off the board. I think he was our last 1st round grade guy.