Yanda, Osemele, or both?

[GrimCoconut]

First, I never said he wasn't our future center... Just that the articles cited did nothing to prove that point.

Second, I think it means they're exploring it as an option. But with the Yanda/KO situation on the horizon I still think Urschel's future is more likely at guard.

Someone has to take the snaps with Zuttah out and if you're going to experiment with a guy at a new position, OTA's is the best time to do it.

It will mean more if when Zuttah comes back Urschel is taking snaps at center with the 2nd team offense instead of rotating in at guard.

I think the truth is, they want to see what he can do there because we covet versatile lineman. If Urschel can be your primary insurance for both guard and center, you don't have to carry as many Backup O-lineman on the 53 and game day active roster which frees you up to keep a player at another position.

And I think one of KO and Yanda is likely gone next year while Zuttah will be under contract so out of necessity Urschel's immediate future is more likely at guard. Long term it will depend on where need is.

And isn't Jah Reid starting on the line in OTA's? He's not our future anything. They need 5 guys to start on the line and Monroe, Yanda, Zuttah and Wagner are all not there. Someone who knows the offense and the protections has to play center. When your options are Hurst, Jah, KO, Jensen and rookies it seems less of a projection of the future and more of the team filling a necessity with the least bad option.

First of all, don't get defensive. Wow. Maybe I didn't read your sentence well, but you sound really defensive like I am throwing it in your face. I was just asking if you still felt that way. I wanted to hear an opinion. 

 

I still don't think Urschel's future is necessarily at guard. Just because he played there last year means zero. He's player center this OTA, which you say may not mean much, either. It's the same argument. You can't have it both ways where his play at guard last year indicates he is most likely to stay there but his snaps at center at OTAs this year don't necessarily indicate that. I could just as easily argue that Jeremy Zuttah could slide over to LG and play the position since he's played there before if we lose KO.

 

That's true about the Ravens needing bodies on the OL, but they do have other guys who could play center on the team. I think it shows the interest the Ravens have of possibly playing him at center if the need arose, whether that need is due to injury, performance, or FA departure. It wouldn't surprise me either way if Urschel started guard or center if KO or Yanda left. I wouldn't be surprised if Zuttah slid over to guard and Urschel played center, nor would I be surprised if Urschel played guard and Zuttah remained at center. There's a solid argument both ways. That's all I am saying. I just don't like the automatic discrediting of possibilities, which now I feel you support based on your comments. 

 

I don't see the significance in Urschel taking snaps with the second team OL at center as an indication he may be the future center. If anything, that just indicates the Ravens think he's versatile. 

[Guest]

Here's how I read it and I'm never wrong at deductive reasoning.  After all, who is the Fan that called Darren Waller being our ticket to Championship? Oz copied, but I'm not complaining. We have him and it doesn't matter who piqued Oz's curiosity.

 

Now on to Offensive Line evaluation:

 

Yanda > Osemele

(where the symbol ">" indicates Older Than)

IF only 1 stays = True

Then

Left Guard = Osemele

Right Guard = Younger Still

General Manager = Getting old yet outside of himself seriously stuck in a youth movement

 

End If

 

Now the problem with these formulas are the assumptions in any premise. Really invalid in and of themselves, except for the one I illustrated.

Honestly, it would be this formula for me: 

 

Yanda > Osemele 

IF (OsemeleLeaves = TRUE)

THEN

LeftGuard = Jeremy Zuttah

Center = John Urschel

END IF

 

That's how I would do it. You would lose Osmele, but keep Yanda, slide Zuttah to LG, and move Urschel to a starting gig in the middle at center. Zuttah played LG before, and if we draft someone who can do better, then that probably means he sticks at center. I'd prefer to continue to keep Urschel as a center or a reserve OL for now. 

 

I'm reluctant to give money to KO because of the back. I really love him, and I want to keep him, but sometimes it doesn't happen and he would be my casualty if I had to choose. Ideally, I'd retain KO, Yanda, Jimmy and Tucker and let Will Hill and others go in FA. 

Edited June 9, 2015 by Danny D

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

Inside I still want both of them but if it is only 1 we get to keep it has to be Yanda....

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

First of all, don't get defensive. Wow. Maybe I didn't read your sentence well, but you sound really defensive like I am throwing it in your face. I was just asking if you still felt that way. I wanted to hear an opinion.

I still don't think Urschel's future is necessarily at guard. Just because he played there last year means zero. He's player center this OTA, which you say may not mean much, either. It's the same argument. You can't have it both ways where his play at guard last year indicates he is most likely to stay there but his snaps at center at OTAs this year don't necessarily indicate that. I could just as easily argue that Jeremy Zuttah could slide over to LG and play the position since he's played there before if we lose KO.

That's true about the Ravens needing bodies on the OL, but they do have other guys who could play center on the team. I think it shows the interest the Ravens have of possibly playing him at center if the need arose, whether that need is due to injury, performance, or FA departure. It wouldn't surprise me either way if Urschel started guard or center if KO or Yanda left. I wouldn't be surprised if Zuttah slid over to guard and Urschel played center, nor would I be surprised if Urschel played guard and Zuttah remained at center. There's a solid argument both ways. That's all I am saying. I just don't like the automatic discrediting of possibilities, which now I feel you support based on your comments.

I don't see the significance in Urschel taking snaps with the second team OL at center as an indication he may be the future center. If anything, that just indicates the Ravens think he's versatile.

Nope nothing defensive about it.

So, your argument is that starting snaps in a playoff game only hold as much weight as snaps at center during OTA's when 4/5 of the starting line is not in attendance??

Sorry, stopped reading at that point.

[GrimCoconut]

Nope nothing defensive about it.

So, your argument is that starting snaps in a playoff game only hold as much weight as snaps at center during OTA's when 4/5 of the starting line is not in attendance??

Sorry, stopped reading at that point.

Things change a lot and just because a guy plays in one position in the playoffs doesn't mean he'll play there his entire career. It's also true that just because he's practicing at center in OTAs that it doesn't necessarily mean he'll continue to play there in the future. If you weren't being so sarcastic, you'd realize I agreed with what you said. I didn't reply to your post to throw it in your face, but rather just wanted to hear an opinion that may have changed.

You certainly seem defensive to me. I'm no authority on interpretation, though, so I'll leave it at that.

I just think that this situation could realistically go either way, with Urschel at guard or center, and it wouldn't surprise me. I feel like there's indications to support both possibilities.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Things change a lot and just because a guy plays in one position in the playoffs doesn't mean he'll play there his entire career. It's also true that just because he's practicing at center in OTAs that it doesn't necessarily mean he'll continue to play there in the future. If you weren't being so sarcastic, you'd realize I agreed with what you said. I didn't reply to your post to throw it in your face, but rather just wanted to hear an opinion that may have changed.

You certainly seem defensive to me. I'm no authority on interpretation, though, so I'll leave it at that.

I just think that this situation could realistically go either way, with Urschel at guard or center, and it wouldn't surprise me. I feel like there's indications to support both possibilities.

I agree that Urschel has the requisite skill and intelligence to play and play well at either guard or center.

My comment was just giving my opinion that I don't think Urschel taking snaps at center during these OTAs is an indication that the team has plans on him taking over there next year. I do think they want to see what he can do there to see if he can be the primary backup at guard and center just because they covet versatility and it opens up flexibility in building the roster. But mostly I think it's just because with all 5 starters missing he's the best option at center for the offense to actually be able to run smoothly until the starters return.

Again, it's not that I don't think Urschel can play center or that he's not the leading candidate on the current roster to take over at center eventually. But I think need and circumstance make it more likely that he's taking over at guard next year.

I feel like the team would be outsmarting themselves to try and move Zuttah to guard and slide Urschel inside. With a hole likely opening up at one guard position, I think continuity will take precedence... With Zuttah having started 2 years at center working directly with Joe and Urschel having starting experience in big games at guard it seems counter intuitive to suddenly shake it up and move Zuttah out to guard and Urschel at center when the line as a unit was among the best in the nfl with Zuttah at center and Urschel having shown in a rookie season he could adequately fill in at guard.

Could they flip and still be effective? Sure. But it's a question mark while we know and have seen it is a strong line in it's current incarnation. Now, if Myers shows he can start at guard in the NFL that's where I could see Urschel making the move to center. Myers replaces KO, Urschel replaces Zuttah who next year can save the team a few mill in cap by being cut I believe.

But if Zuttahs on the roster I just don't see it. With all the turnover he's had, I don't see the coaching staff overthinking things and taking away something that's been a consistent and successful part of Joe's game.

[GrimCoconut]

I agree that Urschel has the requisite skill and intelligence to play and play well at either guard or center.

My comment was just giving my opinion that I don't think Urschel taking snaps at center during these OTAs is an indication that the team has plans on him taking over there next year. I do think they want to see what he can do there to see if he can be the primary backup at guard and center just because they covet versatility and it opens up flexibility in building the roster. But mostly I think it's just because with all 5 starters missing he's the best option at center for the offense to actually be able to run smoothly until the starters return.

Again, it's not that I don't think Urschel can play center or that he's not the leading candidate on the current roster to take over at center eventually. But I think need and circumstance make it more likely that he's taking over at guard next year.

I feel like the team would be outsmarting themselves to try and move Zuttah to guard and slide Urschel inside. With a hole likely opening up at one guard position, I think continuity will take precedence... With Zuttah having started 2 years at center working directly with Joe and Urschel having starting experience in big games at guard it seems counter intuitive to suddenly shake it up and move Zuttah out to guard and Urschel at center when the line as a unit was among the best in the nfl with Zuttah at center and Urschel having shown in a rookie season he could adequately fill in at guard.

Could they flip and still be effective? Sure. But it's a question mark while we know and have seen it is a strong line in it's current incarnation. Now, if Myers shows he can start at guard in the NFL that's where I could see Urschel making the move to center. Myers replaces KO, Urschel replaces Zuttah who next year can save the team a few mill in cap by being cut I believe.

But if Zuttahs on the roster I just don't see it. With all the turnover he's had, I don't see the coaching staff overthinking things and taking away something that's been a consistent and successful part of Joe's game.

I definitely see both sides of this argument as perfectly valid. I think a strong case can be made either way. I also agree regarding the appeal continuity may have over mixing it up by switching Urschel and Zuttah. That's not to say I support either option. I just think both are extremely likely and require many unanswered questions to truly narrow down on an answer.

Didn't Urschel play at RG not LG? Yanda plays RG, so I'm not sure if Urschel moving to LG would have the same results. It's true that they're both guards, but it's also true imo that changing footwork isn't so easy.