Yanda, Osemele, or both?

[Tank 92]

not assumed by everyone, no reason to assume it. Saying he can snap isn't an argument, especially when the same cited article lists 3 others who we wouldn't want playing center in a million year (plus two of the guys are no longer with the team and the other spent all last season on the practice squad)

There's much more than an article that points him to center. He's the cerebral type of player you want there and he is a mauler. Just makes good sense.

[hn68wb4]

Just because you're being sarcastic doesn't make you right. Might want to temper your attitude. You're far too myopic. You nor I know the course of what'll happen with him, so to suggest that anyone's opinion that he could play center and say there are no indications of it is wrong and I proved you wrong. We did try Shipley at center and we obviously let Gino play there. We're all entitled to our opinions. I have no problem with that. But to outright discredit the idea isn't right. Just be open minded. No need to be so definitive.

A random list of players who can snap doesn't prove anyone wrong, from the article you linked it was the author who suggested who DeCosta was talking about, not a direct quote from DeCosta. You ruin your own credibility when you criticize my attitude and in the same breath call me myopic. What i said wasn't wrong, Urschel has yet to play center and i have yet to see a direct quote saying that is what his future is, I'm sure every player on our oline could realistically play center and "snap" just fine, that doesn't mean thats where they'll be in a year or two.

[hn68wb4]

I was saying the next two seasons, Yanda will be better.

well then i agree, but thats not the point I'm trying to make. Yanda should be better the next two years but Osemele won't be far behind and on top of those two quality seasons he will turn in multiple seasons at that level, like i said: its about both longevity and quality

[redrum52]

I've never heard such a beautiful thing in my life. Pay the uglies and get whoever to run behind them.

Really, what makes Forsett great is that he runs where he's supposed to. Some backs (Ray Rice...) like to think they can make plays by bouncing out and making cuts all over the place, but they're wrong. The backs that perform the best are the ones smart enough to make one cut and explode. Forsett is also good at keeping his feet moving and trusting his line. If you can get a guy to make one cut, run hard, and trust his line, he'll succeed.

I'd like to point oduring the Rice contract, I said don't pay him and build the o line, but I like what you said. You build the line that will get you both pass and run blocking and find smart, patient backs. If the lines good enough, even a marginal Rb will look great.

[GrimCoconut]

A random list of players who can snap doesn't prove anyone wrong, from the article you linked it was the author who suggested who DeCosta was talking about, not a direct quote from DeCosta. You ruin your own credibility when you criticize my attitude and in the same breath call me myopic. What i said wasn't wrong, Urschel has yet to play center and i have yet to see a direct quote saying that is what his future is, I'm sure every player on our oline could realistically play center and "snap" just fine, that doesn't mean thats where they'll be in a year or two.

I'm not sure why you're so hostile. Yes, I think your view is myopic, meaning short sighted. I am in no way being myopic here, because I recognize that he may play outside of the position he played in college. I think he could play guard or center, and recognize he can replace Yanda as much as Zuttah (hypothetically) if we moved on from him or KO. Just because he played guard at Penn State doesn't mean he won't ever play center in the NFL.

I think you are wrong as well, as I have proved and will continue to prove here in this message. I don't need you to admit it, either. I'm only providing facts, and the facts do support my argument more than yours. I'm not trying to get into some internet fight here. I am only showing you that you're wrong. I get it. I even understand your point, because I certainly know it must be frustrating when people make baseless claims, such as with Webb. This isn't some internet idea, though, manufactured by fans.

Finally, what you'll see below is that we (this site) recognizes his position versatility (labeling him C/G), as well quotes from John Urschel regarding how he wants to prove he can play either position. We also have evidence supporting where teams may want to play him in an article with media speculation.

Source: http://www.baltimoreravens.com/team/roster/John-Urschel/69bcc60c-a54b-460f-aa91-afc2d0a2ecee

His very player profile here on this very website lists him as a C/G.

Source: http://lancasteronline.com/sports/pennstate/penn-state-pro-day-john-urschel/article_30bbfff6-bf7d-11e3-8291-001a4bcf6878.html

From his pro day last year, he said the following:

Quote: “I wanted to show that I was athletic,” Urschel said. “I wanted to show that I could snap, under center and in the gun, which I did. And I wanted to take a little bit off my 40, and from what I heard I did. It was a good day.”

http://www.pennlive.com/pennstatefootball/index.ssf/2014/02/post_40.html

Urschel could play either right or left guard and could garner interest at center too. Center is a position that would allow his football IQ to continue to take over as he learns more about protections and blocking schemes. For a late-round pick, the more he can do for teams, the better chance he has of hearing his name called during the NFL Draft. Urschel will workout again at Penn State’s pro day where he will definitely complete the position drills and could continue to add to the list.

Here it is speculated that he could be a player to play center.

Let's hear from John Urschel himself on the matter, in this article written by the player of whom we are discussing.

Source: http://www.centredaily.com/2014/04/12/4131660/penn-state-football-urschel-lions.html

One of the main concerns scouts had for me was whether or not I could play center, and snap the ball effectively. During my offensive line drills, I played center exclusively, performing both under-center snaps and shotgun snaps. By the end of the day, there was no doubt that I could not only play guard, but center as well.

Read mo

e here: http://www.centredaily.com/2014/04/12/4131660/penn-state-football-urschel-lions.html#storylink=cpy

Edited April 9, 2015 by GrimCoconut

[BmoreBird22]

A random list of players who can snap doesn't prove anyone wrong, from the article you linked it was the author who suggested who DeCosta was talking about, not a direct quote from DeCosta. You ruin your own credibility when you criticize my attitude and in the same breath call me myopic. What i said wasn't wrong, Urschel has yet to play center and i have yet to see a direct quote saying that is what his future is, I'm sure every player on our oline could realistically play center and "snap" just fine, that doesn't mean thats where they'll be in a year or two.

That random list of players happens to just so be all centers. Gino started at center, Shipley has started at center, and Jensen was a backup center. If they were just naming off players, why not throw out Yanda, Kelechi, Reid, Monroe, Wagner, etc? And Urschel was widely viewed as a center prospect coming out by most analysts. Sure, he may have played well at right guard because that's where he was needed, but that doesn't mean he's only limited to that position. If he filled in for an injured Zuttah instead of as a right guard, would you say he has no ability to play right guard?

[PurpleCity5]

Gatta go with Yanda. Worried about K.O's durability. 

[jazz1988]

Yanda has had a fantastic career here in Baltimore but we are talking about the future, not the past. I don't know if Osemele will have a career on par with Yanda, not many have, is that reason to overlook his age? no. Osemele has emerged as one of the leagues best guards and he's young. Yanda is one of, if not the, best guards in football but he'll be 31 and will only get worse from here. Not to mention we don't have a clear cut replacement at LG like we do at RG, so this argument is not only "Yanda is old and Osemele is young" its about whats best for the line as a whole. Urschel is more than capable of taking over at RG, will he be as good as Yanda? probably not right away but he's shown to be more than capable of handling it. If we let Osemele walk, who will take over? move Zuttah from his natural position? plug in a rookie? the best solution is to go with the proven backup in Urschel

 

Usually guards can play at a high level for quite awhile so I''m not really concerned about Yanda being 31 coming next season.Osemele is indeed emerging as one of the leagues best guards but he still can be quite inconsistent at times and get banged up at times due to injuries. Yanda still the better guard until proven other wise . I would like for The Ravens to be able to keep both but  I rather The Ravens keep Yanda over Osemele.

 

I think left guards tend to make more money than right guards as well . Urschel played all over the line last year and I think he even played at left guard when Osemele was out and did a solid job at it  as well.  Urschel may  be Yanda replacment but he also may be Osemele replacement it's really no telling. The Ravens may even be able to find either Yanda or Osemele replacement with this upcoming draft but time will time

[codizzle]

I'm not sure why you're so hostile. Yes, I think your view is myopic, meaning short sighted. I am in no way being myopic here, because I recognize that he may play outside of the position he played in college. I think he could play guard or center, and recognize he can replace Yanda as much as Zuttah (hypothetically) if we moved on from him or KO. Just because he played guard at Penn State doesn't mean he won't ever play center in the NFL.

I think you are wrong as well, as I have proved and will continue to prove here in this message. I don't need you to admit it, either. I'm only providing facts, and the facts do support my argument more than yours. I'm not trying to get into some internet fight here. I am only showing you that you're wrong. I get it. I even understand your point, because I certainly know it must be frustrating when people make baseless claims, such as with Webb. This isn't some internet idea, though, manufactured by fans.

Finally, what you'll see below is that we (this site) recognizes his position versatility (labeling him C/G), as well quotes from John Urschel regarding how he wants to prove he can play either position. We also have evidence supporting where teams may want to play him in an article with media speculation.

Source: http://www.baltimoreravens.com/team/roster/John-Urschel/69bcc60c-a54b-460f-aa91-afc2d0a2ecee

His very player profile here on this very website lists him as a C/G.

Source: http://lancasteronline.com/sports/pennstate/penn-state-pro-day-john-urschel/article_30bbfff6-bf7d-11e3-8291-001a4bcf6878.html

From his pro day last year, he said the following:

http://www.pennlive.com/pennstatefootball/index.ssf/2014/02/post_40.htmlHere it is speculated that he could be a player to play center.

Let's hear from John Urschel himself on the matter, in this article written by the player of whom we are discussing.

Source: http://www.centredaily.com/2014/04/12/4131660/penn-state-football-urschel-lions.html

Can you present some proof please. Stop with these weak points

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

I'd love to keep both but I'm just not sure. It's still possible. If Yanda signs a fairly cap friendly deal, we've got a few years of bargain play at RT, if Hurst continues to develop he can maybe save money by replacing Monroe in a year or 2.

For long term future it makes more sense to keep KO but Yanda is just way too consistent, injury free and a team leader. We have some quality young depth at G/C with Urschel and don't forget Jensen... And looks like they really covet 1 or 2 guards in this draft. I could see us grabbing one in the 2nd.

I don't think that would mean KO is definitely gone as it could just be preparing for 2-3 years from now if Yanda slows down. But I don't think you risk taking arguably the most important aspect of the team (interior line superiority) and risk it to save cap. KO, Yanda and Zuttah/Urschel can combine to be the best interior line in football. Lock up KO and you have 4 of 5 lineman that can be arguably top 5 at their position locked up for a 5 year span. All while maintaining incredibly talented and cheap

When you think about it, spending $5-7 mill to lock up KO and keep this line in tact saves you more money elsewhere in that you can succeed with pretty much any decent RB and allows you to get away with cheaper weapons at WR and TE.

You invest big in Oline and Qb on offense and plug in bargains at skill positions. We'll have rice off the books, Joe will lessen his cap hit, Pitta will either play or get most his money off the books so we can afford to pay market price for Jimmy Smith and KO... Though I thought we'd lock Grubbs up a few years ago to keep Yanda and him together but the FO showed faith in their ability to identify and develop top talent at the position and it worked out tremendously. I won't count out them viewing the KO situation the same way with how Urschel played as a rookie and a top 3 round draft pick at guard

Could really go either way, but my gut says KO stays.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

I'm not sure why you're so hostile. Yes, I think your view is myopic, meaning short sighted. I am in no way being myopic here, because I recognize that he may play outside of the position he played in college. I think he could play guard or center, and recognize he can replace Yanda as much as Zuttah (hypothetically) if we moved on from him or KO. Just because he played guard at Penn State doesn't mean he won't ever play center in the NFL.

I think you are wrong as well, as I have proved and will continue to prove here in this message. I don't need you to admit it, either. I'm only providing facts, and the facts do support my argument more than yours. I'm not trying to get into some internet fight here. I am only showing you that you're wrong. I get it. I even understand your point, because I certainly know it must be frustrating when people make baseless claims, such as with Webb. This isn't some internet idea, though, manufactured by fans.

Finally, what you'll see below is that we (this site) recognizes his position versatility (labeling him C/G), as well quotes from John Urschel regarding how he wants to prove he can play either position. We also have evidence supporting where teams may want to play him in an article with media speculation.

Source: http://www.baltimoreravens.com/team/roster/John-Urschel/69bcc60c-a54b-460f-aa91-afc2d0a2ecee

His very player profile here on this very website lists him as a C/G.

Source: http://lancasteronline.com/sports/pennstate/penn-state-pro-day-john-urschel/article_30bbfff6-bf7d-11e3-8291-001a4bcf6878.html

From his pro day last year, he said the following:

http://www.pennlive.com/pennstatefootball/index.ssf/2014/02/post_40.htmlHere it is speculated that he could be a player to play center.

Let's hear from John Urschel himself on the matter, in this article written by the player of whom we are discussing.

Source: http://www.centredaily.com/2014/04/12/4131660/penn-state-football-urschel-lions.html

I don't really have a dog in this fight but citing articles that say Urschel wants to prove he can play center and analysts prognosticating that he could project at center do not constitute as fact that he could excel there.

What is fact? He was plugged in at both guard positions and played well relatively speaking. Up and downs but for a rookie thrust into starting roles he held up very well.

I felt confident with him coming in in the playoffs. He has not taken snaps at center and has never played it to my knowledge. Could he do well there? Sure. But there aren't any facts to day that he would. There's a lot more to playing center than just blocking. He's shown good technique in blocking, but he has no experience evaluating defensive alignments, calling out adjustments, changing protections, etc.

Zuttah wasn't great but was probably the biggest upgrade to our line with RT a close second.

Until I see proof otherwise I'd say its most likely Urschel eventually replaces KO if not resigned, is groomed to eventually replace Yanda in 2-3 years, or remains cheap insurance in case of injury for all 3 interior positions.

But at this point I'd be more concerned with an injury to Zuttah than to KO.

Plus the FO was reportedly high on Jensen as a potential C with versatility to play G as well. Idk what the depth chart shows but Urschel may very well not even be our backup center. Last year Gino was the primary backup at C, which isn't giving me much confidence that he showed enough potential at the position in practice last year bc as we all know Gino was terrible. Tough to believe he currently projects well there if he wasn't outplaying Gino.

[GrimCoconut]

I don't really have a dog in this fight but citing articles that say Urschel wants to prove he can play center and analysts prognosticating that he could project at center do not constitute as fact that he could excel there.

What is fact? He was plugged in at both guard positions and played well relatively speaking. Up and downs but for a rookie thrust into starting roles he held up very well.

I felt confident with him coming in in the playoffs. He has not taken snaps at center and has never played it to my knowledge. Could he do well there? Sure. But there aren't any facts to day that he would. There's a lot more to playing center than just blocking. He's shown good technique in blocking, but he has no experience evaluating defensive alignments, calling out adjustments, changing protections, etc.

Zuttah wasn't great but was probably the biggest upgrade to our line with RT a close second.

Until I see proof otherwise I'd say its most likely Urschel eventually replaces KO if not resigned, is groomed to eventually replace Yanda in 2-3 years, or remains cheap insurance in case of injury for all 3 interior positions.

But at this point I'd be more concerned with an injury to Zuttah than to KO.

Plus the FO was reportedly high on Jensen as a potential C with versatility to play G as well. Idk what the depth chart shows but Urschel may very well not even be our backup center. Last year Gino was the primary backup at C, which isn't giving me much confidence that he showed enough potential at the position in practice last year bc as we all know Gino was terrible. Tough to believe he currently projects well there if he wasn't outplaying Gino.

See, I appreciate your argument here. I have no problem with anything you said at all. The team does list him as a G/C on this very website, though, so that does refute your point to an extent. His profile lists him as a G/C, so he's a swing interior linemen. That's a fact and it's on this website. We'll see what happens in OTAs. Using Gino as an indication isn't much, because I think we would have played Gino if Zuttah went down but that's less to do with Urschel and more to do with the fact that Urschel is a rookie and Gino, while playing bad, is an experienced back-up who started an entire year and had chemistry and familiarity already established in real game situations. 

 

Maybe this year, there will be more to substantiate it outside of these articles. Fair point to make, though. At least you're respectful about it. 

 

Edit: oh, and a caveat is we never discussed whether Urschel would excel there. The argument is that there are indications the team could play center, of which he said there are none. There are indications to the contrary.

Edited April 9, 2015 by GrimCoconut

[allblackraven]

Honestly, it would be this formula for me: 

 

Yanda > Osemele 

IF (OsemeleLeaves = TRUE)

THEN

LeftGuard = Jeremy Zuttah

Center = John Urschel

FI

 

fixed, unix way

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

I voted for keeping Osemele,but I'd like us to keep both.However,if John Urshel plays guard this year while Wagner is out and plays just as good or better than he did last year,then we should let Yanda walk if he refuses to extend his contract at a fair and manageable cap price.It's smarter to move on with younger talent than to keep letting 30 year old vets hold us cap hostage every year.

[beasy2487]

I disagree that this past year was his best of his entire career, come on lets be real, he had a fantastic season but the best of his 7 years is simply not true. Are you saying Yanda will be in the league two more years than Osemele or that the next two years will be better than Osemele? i cannot deny the latter and i havent tried to make a point saying otherwise, this is a question of longevity + quality. I believe its easily possible Yanda will turn in two better seasons than Osemele over the next two years but it won't be that wide of a margin. Osemele will turn in two very quality seasons plus multiple quality seasons after that while with Yanda we are talking only a few more seasons left total and theres no telling if he'll drop off after a year or two, some guys deal with age well, others don't, we simply don't know how he'll deal with it.

 

I understand the argument that if a (legally and totally for fun) betting man looks at Osemele and Yanda on paper, age is a factor. But as someone who watches both of these men play, I'm not sure how you can say it is either a sure thing that Yanda is going to have this mysterious and rapid decline in two years, or that Osemele is a sure thing to step in and consistently produce over the next 4+.

 

I'm on the side of keeping the line in tact. The links we need to worry about mid-long term are Monroe and Zuttah...in that order. The scenario I envision over the remainder of this offseason and the next:

 

Extend Yanda

Extend Tucker

Extend Flacco

Extend Wagner

Pay Jimmy

Pay Hill

Sign Osemele to a Top 10 contract or let him walk for more

Let Upshaw walk

Cut or extend Webb based on production

[Sami84]

I'm going to say this and make it clear. Marshal Yanda is the best guard in football with evan mathis. Mathis is 3 years older and has played the best 3 seasons of his career in his early 30's

[flynismo]

I mean, the Patriots always paid their starters around 5-7 million each. They fielded $25+ million lines throughout most of the decade and it paid off. Like I said, this game is won in the trenches. I'd happily have two high priced guards if production matched the price.

I feel the same way. Aside from QB, if ever there was a position to splurge your cap space on it is on the OL

[52520Andrew]

I'd love both but I don't know how cheap we can get Osemele. I feel we could work out a deal with Yanda a bit easier as he is older and may not be looking for as big of a pay day.

[Tru11]

yanda will get an extension no doubt .

 

id love to have them resign KO as well.

 

my question is though do people rather have the team sign KO and keep the o-line intact or do they prefer the team to spend in on a high priced WR in FA.

 

i know we will be hearing that again next off season especially if the rookie we drafted isent putting up all pro stats lol

[Tank 92]

Again, sign both and continue to keep the core as strong as possible.  The best QB in the world sucks when spending too much time on his back and there aren't too many RBs that can navigate brick walls.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Tank 92

[GrimCoconut]

yanda will get an extension no doubt .

 

id love to have them resign KO as well.

 

my question is though do people rather have the team sign KO and keep the o-line intact or do they prefer the team to spend in on a high priced WR in FA.

 

i know we will be hearing that again next off season especially if the rookie we drafted isent putting up all pro stats lol

I'd retain KO before throwing big money at an overpriced FA WR. 

 

I don't see that happening, honestly. It's not our model. We really pay our own guys the big bucks, unless someone is out there who is just a fantastic player and we can get him, we will. There's no way you can answer the question in a  vacuum, though. I think the best move is to keep them all intact, and retain both Yanda and KO, to ensure your OL continues with its chemistry. There's a lot to be said for continued chemistry on the OL and continued success. 

 

If it's between Yanda or KO, though, I'm going with Yanda. 

[redrum52]

yanda will get an extension no doubt .

id love to have them resign KO as well.

my question is though do people rather have the team sign KO and keep the o-line intact or do they prefer the team to spend in on a high priced WR in FA.

i know we will be hearing that again next off season especially if the rookie we drafted isent putting up all pro stats lol

O line. We've proven that with a solid o line, we can plug and play at wr. This would be the year to load up on offensive talent for a 3-4 year run while keeping the line together.

Ngata's gone, Rice dead money off the books and hopefully something is worked out with Flacco, to drop that cap number. Even with keeping Jimmy, Tucker and KO, the team shouldn't be too bad cap wise if the right moves are made, also considering the yearly rise in cap anyway.

[ellicottraven]

We have to resign Yanda. He is the epitome of being a Raven. We have Suggs on D and Yanda must be on O at least till they decide to hang it up.

[The Raven]

O line. We've proven that with a solid o line, we can plug and play at wr. This would be the year to load up on offensive talent for a 3-4 year run while keeping the line together.

Ngata's gone, Rice dead money off the books and hopefully something is worked out with Flacco, to drop that cap number. Even with keeping Jimmy, Tucker and KO, the team shouldn't be too bad cap wise if the right moves are made, also considering the yearly rise in cap anyway.

 

Exactly-- we can plug and play at receiver. Sometimes this method lets you down, and sometimes it sucks not having a big fancy number one, but you can get by with role players if you use them right and just play smart football. Not to mention, the west coast offense makes it easy for some receivers. It's not always a simple system, and it's tough to gain the chemistry, but it's an offense that gets guys the ball. I don't know how else to put it. If you're a smart, decently athletic receiver with solid route running you can ball in a west coast.

[izvoodoo]

I'm saying both because Yanda is in his second contract.  Not to say it'll be unfair but we should be able to keep him.

[Wildabeast88]

Honestly, it would be this formula for me: 

 

Yanda > Osemele 

IF (OsemeleLeaves = TRUE)

THEN

LeftGuard = Jeremy Zuttah

Center = John Urschel

END IF

 

That's how I would do it. You would lose Osmele, but keep Yanda, slide Zuttah to LG, and move Urschel to a starting gig in the middle at center. Zuttah played LG before, and if we draft someone who can do better, then that probably means he sticks at center. I'd prefer to continue to keep Urschel as a center or a reserve OL for now. 

 

I'm reluctant to give money to KO because of the back. I really love him, and I want to keep him, but sometimes it doesn't happen and he would be my casualty if I had to choose. Ideally, I'd retain KO, Yanda, Jimmy and Tucker and let Will Hill and others go in FA.

In equation form someone must be reading Urschel's work. I would love to keep both honestly I believe Yanda will retire a Raven so I see him back KO is almost as good but certainly Yanda will be back

[Wildabeast88]

I'm going to say this and make it clear. Marshal Yanda is the best guard in football with evan mathis. Mathis is 3 years older and has played the best 3 seasons of his career in his early 30's

Another great example Bruce Mathews the man played 20 years and was a pro bowl caliber player until around year 18 or 19 so he was 40 41 years old and still awesome I could see Yanda in that same situation

[Blackbirds Rule]

I'd like to sign Yanda to allow him to retire a Raven. Osemele will be too expensive IMO. I think that's why we continue to grrom Urshel to take over that LG spot. We'll also draft another interior lineman to keep our O-line stocked. We'll probably get a pretty good compensatory pick for Osemele to help lessen the sting of losing another good player.

[Guest I-70WestRaven]

Both, nuff said!

[Dubs]

I would say both...however, I cannot see it happening and am expecting Yanda extension and Urschel moves in somewhere on the line