Yanda, Osemele, or both?

[The Raven]

With both Marshal Yanda and Kelechi Osemele entering a contract year, an obvious question arises: Who gets re-signed?

 

This is an intriguing question, no doubt. Osemele was among the best guards in the league last year, and Yanda WAS the best guard in the league. Both offer versatility, and both are dominant. The downsides are that Yanda is aging, and Osemele is injury prone. 

 

What's interesting to me is that, in Bisciotti's conference call last week, he mentioned that the team is actively trying to extend Yanda, Tucker, and Jimmy. I don't remember him mentioning Osemele. 

 

Also interesting is that we've given a lot of attention to guards in our scouting process. Now, Ozzie is always prepared, but it's just interesting to me.

 

This really comes down to the value of each player. I feel like Yanda could be had for a cheaper deal than the one he's on now, since he will likely be on the decline. I think we could get him on a thee year $9-12 million deal. Osemele is probably closer to the $7-9 million range. Another question to answer is whether we want to move Urschel to center, over Zuttah, or if we want to keep him at guard and let him fill a slot if we lose someone. I'd prefer moving Urschel to center; he has a higher ceiling than Zuttah does.

 

If it were up to me, I'd re-sign both. This game is won and lost in the trenches. More times than not, the team with the better lines will win. That's why our defense has always been strong. However, we will be against the cap next year, so re-signing both is unlikely. If we have to pick one, who is it? My vote is for Yanda.

Edited April 8, 2015 by The Raven

[Static]

When the dead money is cleared we could probably afford both but KO might have $$$ in his eyes. But he have Urschel who was excellent at run blocking last year.

 

 

No way the front office lets Yanda go anywhere.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Static

[GrimCoconut]

Honestly, it would be this formula for me: 

 

Yanda > Osemele 

IF (OsemeleLeaves = TRUE)

THEN

LeftGuard = Jeremy Zuttah

Center = John Urschel

END IF

 

That's how I would do it. You would lose Osmele, but keep Yanda, slide Zuttah to LG, and move Urschel to a starting gig in the middle at center. Zuttah played LG before, and if we draft someone who can do better, then that probably means he sticks at center. I'd prefer to continue to keep Urschel as a center or a reserve OL for now. 

 

I'm reluctant to give money to KO because of the back. I really love him, and I want to keep him, but sometimes it doesn't happen and he would be my casualty if I had to choose. Ideally, I'd retain KO, Yanda, Jimmy and Tucker and let Will Hill and others go in FA. 

Edited April 8, 2015 by GrimCoconut

[redrum52]

Both. Don't pay rbs. Keep the line intact, depending on the player.

Edited April 8, 2015 by redrum52

[The Raven]

Honestly, it would be this formula for me: 

 

Yanda > Osemele 

IF (OsemeleLeaves = TRUE)

THEN

LeftGuard = Jeremy Zuttah

Center = John Urschel

END IF

 

That's how I would do it. You would lose Osmele, but keep Yanda, slide Zuttah to LG, and move Urschel to a starting gig in the middle at center. Zuttah played LG before, and if we draft someone who can do better, then that probably means he sticks at center. I'd prefer to continue to keep Urschel as a center or a reserve OL for now. 

 

I'm reluctant to give money to KO because of the back. I really love him, and I want to keep him, but sometimes it doesn't happen and he would be my casualty if I had to choose. Ideally, I'd retain KO, Yanda, Jimmy and Tucker and let Will Hill and others go in FA. 

 

Agreed there. I'm also suspect of KO's ability as a guard. He's great getting to the second level and punishing backers, but any guard can level a backer. I'm concerned with his performance against defensive linemen. Usually, the LG is the worse of the two, and really, LGs don't get tested too much. Yanda has held his own against Watt, Suh, Atkins, etc... It's important to remember that team's typically line up their best DT over the RG. KO just doesn't get tested that much. When he does get tested, he has shoddy technique. He plays too high, he gets off balance a lot, and he's often the last guy of the LOS. I know people will say "but PFF rated him high and he's so strong" but to me, he's an average guard that'll get overpaid. 

 

Also, I like Zuttah more as a LG than C. At LG, he won't be overpowered by gigantic nose tackles as much.

[The Raven]

Both. Don't pay rbs. Keep the line intact, depending on the player.

 

I've never heard such a beautiful thing in my life. Pay the uglies and get whoever to run behind them.

 

Really, what makes Forsett great is that he runs where he's supposed to. Some backs (Ray Rice...) like to think they can make plays by bouncing out and making cuts all over the place, but they're wrong. The backs that perform the best are the ones smart enough to make one cut and explode. Forsett is also good at keeping his feet moving and trusting his line. If you can get a guy to make one cut, run hard, and trust his line, he'll succeed.

Edited April 8, 2015 by The Raven

[TDubbs]

Its crucial to keep both, imo. Having a dominant, consistent Offensive Line is critical to our success. We've seen the kind of success Flacco can have when he's protected, and how well the offense works when the run game gets going. Look at Brady's success throughout the years behind that line, and now Romo since he's been behind a dominant line. 

[Gordo52]

Really hope we can keep both. No question they're among the best guard duo's in the league.

If it came down to one or the other, you go with Yanda.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Gordo52

[FlocksGottaFeed]

By this time next year - both will be a done deal. No problem.

[Willbacker]

It depends on whether they extend Yanda this year but I believe Osemele will turn into another comp pick. Two high priced guards??

[GrimCoconut]

Agreed there. I'm also suspect of KO's ability as a guard. He's great getting to the second level and punishing backers, but any guard can level a backer. I'm concerned with his performance against defensive linemen. Usually, the LG is the worse of the two, and really, LGs don't get tested too much. Yanda has held his own against Watt, Suh, Atkins, etc... It's important to remember that team's typically line up their best DT over the RG. KO just doesn't get tested that much. When he does get tested, he has shoddy technique. He plays too high, he gets off balance a lot, and he's often the last guy of the LOS. I know people will say "but PFF rated him high and he's so strong" but to me, he's an average guard that'll get overpaid. 

 

Also, I like Zuttah more as a LG than C. At LG, he won't be overpowered by gigantic nose tackles as much.

Same here. I think Zuttah could be more effective as a LG in the ZBS. He played pretty OK there with TB, IIRC. I can't recall too well on that, honestly, anymore. I just think he'd be fine next to Urschel and with Yanda at the other guard spot. I've let it known how much I like Urschel as a guard before the draft and we took him. I still like him best as a center. 

 

I'm personally ready to let KO go. Get a comp for him and keep the beast--Yanda. 

[The Raven]

It depends on whether they extend Yanda this year but I believe Osemele will turn into another comp pick. Two high priced guards??

 

I mean, the Patriots always paid their starters around 5-7 million each. They fielded $25+ million lines throughout most of the decade and it paid off. Like I said, this game is won in the trenches. I'd happily have two high priced guards if production matched the price.

[Tank 92]

I hope we keep the both of the two of em and continue to keep the core as strong as possible.

[Inqui]

Honestly, it would be this formula for me: 

 

Yanda > Osemele 

IF (OsemeleLeaves = TRUE)

THEN

LeftGuard = Jeremy Zuttah

Center = John Urschel

END IF

 

That's how I would do it. You would lose Osmele, but keep Yanda, slide Zuttah to LG, and move Urschel to a starting gig in the middle at center. Zuttah played LG before, and if we draft someone who can do better, then that probably means he sticks at center. I'd prefer to continue to keep Urschel as a center or a reserve OL for now. 

 

I'm reluctant to give money to KO because of the back. I really love him, and I want to keep him, but sometimes it doesn't happen and he would be my casualty if I had to choose. Ideally, I'd retain KO, Yanda, Jimmy and Tucker and let Will Hill and others go in FA. 

So I take it the programming is going well?

 

Otherwise I agree. Pay both if you can (and I absolutely agree with whoever said to screw the RBs: the running game is 80% line, 20% what the RB does with it), but if you're resigned to losing one then KO's back is a little iffy for a long-term contract compared to Yanda.

[Crabcakes&Football]

I doubt we pay big money to both guards. I'd love to keep both, but Urschel is a capable next man up. Yanda is 30 and I believe he can play at a high level for 4 more years. He's the leader of the line and the best player on it so we have to extend him. KO might become one of the highest paid guards in the league, so he'll probably be somewhere else.

[hn68wb4]

I'm shocked that my choice of Osemele is against the grain here. Obviously the answer to the poll is to try and re-sign both but next man up is what we do. If it comes down to one or the other then its Urschel's time to step up at RG, there's been no indication that Urschel was ever drafted to be a center so can we stop stating that as if there has been any indication. Thats pure speculation like saying Webb should be moved to FS.

Osemele is younger and we have no clear backup for LG, at the moment at least, Urschel on the other hand is a natural at RG as we saw. Zuttah is under contract until 2019 so what is the reasoning behind moving him out of center? he's above average at center so keep him there for the remainder of his contract, no need to move him anywhere. Urschel had his tryout during the playoffs at RG and played really well, why throw him in at center when he's never played there at all? Monroe, Osemele, Zuttah, Urschel, Wagner is a fantastic line across the board.

Next man up, if Yanda wants another big pay day at 31 then let him walk, keep the young talent and let the aging vet go, Yanda will be 31 come next off season and will only get worse from here, Osemele will be 26, he's got a ton of football left, much more than Yanda does. No one wants to see Yanda go but this is a business, and there comes a time when you have to let the vets go to keep the younger talent, you all should know that by now. Nothing good comes from letting your roster get too old. By all indications Yanda is a team player through and through so we should be able to afford both next offseason regardless since we will be free from all the dead cap we have at the moment.

Edited April 8, 2015 by hn68wb4

[Static]

I'm shocked that my choice of Osemele is against the grain here. Obviously the answer to the poll is to try and re-sign both but next man up is what we do. If it comes down to one or the other then its Urschel's time to step up at RG, there's been no indication that Urschel was ever drafted to be a center so can we stop stating that as if there has been any indication. Thats pure speculation like saying Webb should be moved to FS.

Osemele is younger and we have no clear backup for LG, at the moment at least, Urschel on the other hand is a natural at RG as we saw. Zuttah is under contract until 2019 so what is the reasoning behind moving him out of center? he's above average at center so keep him there for the remainder of his contract, no need to move him anywhere. Urschel had his tryout during the playoffs at RG and played really well, why throw him in at center when he's never played there at all? Monroe, Osemele, Zuttah, Urschel, Wagner is a fantastic line across the board.

Next man up, if Yanda wants another big pay day at 31 then let him walk, keep the young talent and let the aging vet go, Yanda will be 31 come next off season and will only get worse from here, Osemele will be 26, he's got a ton of football left, much more than Yanda does. No one wants to see Yanda go but this is a business, and there comes a time when you have to let the vets go to keep the younger talent, you all should know that by now. Nothing good comes from letting your roster get too old. By all indications Yanda is a team player through and through so we should be able to afford both next offseason regardless since we will be free from all the dead cap we have at the moment.

 

I agree with you from a FO stand point but there is something to do said for losing Leadership and Yanda was the best guard in football last year and will probably be a Probowler if not all-pro next year. Do NOT disrespect his game. Yanda has plenty left in the tank.

 

We gotta be loyal to our guys. Unless he wants an outrageous amount of money of course.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Static

[hn68wb4]

I agree with you from a FO stand point but there is something to do said for losing Leadership and Yanda was the best guard in football last year and will probably be a Probowler if not all-pro next year. Do NOT disrespect his game. Yanda has plenty left in the tank.

 

We gotta be loyal to our guys. Unless he wants an outrageous amount of money of course.

At what point did i ever disrespect Yanda's game? i said Osemele has more football left than him which is just a fact. As far as the business goes loyalty only gets you so far, as i said - we'd all love for him to stay but you have to think of the future and if the difference between their possible contracts is small then you have to go with the younger of the two. If Osemele is looking to become the highest paid guard in the league then obviously you have to go with Yanda.

[Gordo52]

I mean, the Patriots always paid their starters around 5-7 million each. They fielded $25+ million lines throughout most of the decade and it paid off. Like I said, this game is won in the trenches. I'd happily have two high priced guards if production matched the price.

Agreed entirely. Although we lucked out replacing a high calibre player in Grubbs, I really don't wanna lose K.O.

I plan on getting both of their jerseys if we lock em up. Both are key pieces to the core and having continuity would be great.

[Static]

At what point did i ever disrespect Yanda's game? i said Osemele has more football left than him which is just a fact. As far as the business goes loyalty only gets you so far, as i said - we'd all love for him to stay but you have to think of the future and if the difference between their possible contracts is small then you have to go with the younger of the two. If Osemele is looking to become the highest paid guard in the league then obviously you have to go with Yanda.

 

Yanda has been on the field more consistently and at a higher level. Yeah K.O has more years left but will any of those years be similar to the years Yanda has put up?  Not to forget KO has injury problems. 

[GrimCoconut]

there's been no indication that Urschel was ever drafted to be a center so can we stop stating that as if there has been any indication. Thats pure speculation like saying Webb should be moved to FS. Zuttah is under contract until 2019 so what is the reasoning behind moving him out of center? he's above average at center so keep him there for the remainder of his contract, no need to move him anywhere. Urschel had his tryout during the playoffs at RG and played really well, why throw him in at center when he's never played there at all?

I knew this was coming and I was ready for it. I'll just quote Eric DeCosta.

"We've got [multiple] guys who can snap," said DeCosta, referring to Urschel, trade acquisition Jeremy Zuttah, 2013 draftee Ryan Jensen, A.Q. Shipley and 2013 starter Gino Gradkowski

Source: http://www.pressboxonline.com/2014/05/21/ravens-eric-decosta-i-knew-this-would-be-a-tough-season

[hn68wb4]

Yanda has been on the field more consistently and at a higher level. Yeah K.O has more years left but will any of those years be similar to the years Yanda has put up?  Not to forget KO has injury problems. 

Yanda has had a fantastic career here in Baltimore but we are talking about the future, not the past. I don't know if Osemele will have a career on par with Yanda, not many have, is that reason to overlook his age? no. Osemele has emerged as one of the leagues best guards and he's young. Yanda is one of, if not the, best guards in football but he'll be 31 and will only get worse from here. Not to mention we don't have a clear cut replacement at LG like we do at RG, so this argument is not only "Yanda is old and Osemele is young" its about whats best for the line as a whole. Urschel is more than capable of taking over at RG, will he be as good as Yanda? probably not right away but he's shown to be more than capable of handling it. If we let Osemele walk, who will take over? move Zuttah from his natural position? plug in a rookie? the best solution is to go with the proven backup in Urschel

[hn68wb4]

I knew this was coming and I was ready for it. I'll just quote Eric DeCosta.

Source: http://www.pressboxonline.com/2014/05/21/ravens-eric-decosta-i-knew-this-would-be-a-tough-season

i can snap too, can i play center? not to mention that also listed Shipley and Gino, would you want them to play as well? Also Jenson who just spent a season hanging out on the practice squad

Edited April 9, 2015 by hn68wb4

[Static]

Yanda has had a fantastic career here in Baltimore but we are talking about the future, not the past. I don't know if Osemele will have a career on par with Yanda, not many have, is that reason to overlook his age? no. Osemele has emerged as one of the leagues best guards and he's young. Yanda is one of, if not the, best guards in football but he'll be 31 and will only get worse from here. Not to mention we don't have a clear cut replacement at LG like we do at RG, so this argument is not only "Yanda is old and Osemele is young" its about whats best for the line as a whole. Urschel is more than capable of taking over at RG, will he be as good as Yanda? probably not right away but he's shown to be more than capable of handling it. If we let Osemele walk, who will take over? move Zuttah from his natural position? plug in a rookie? the best solution is to go with the proven backup in Urschel

 

Yanda just came off his best year at 30, he wont be sharply declining anytime soon. I trust Yanda to give me two good years more than KO. 

Edited April 9, 2015 by Static

[Tank 92]

i can snap too, can i play center? not to mention that also listed Shipley and Gino, would you want them to play as well?

I think it is assumed that Urschel is marked as the next center.

I will say that I agree that KO may be as valuable as Yanda at this point in their careers. He's pure beast and as pointed out is much younger.

[Bltravens]

I mean, the Patriots always paid their starters around 5-7 million each. They fielded $25+ million lines throughout most of the decade and it paid off. Like I said, this game is won in the trenches. I'd happily have two high priced guards if production matched the price.

Plus that may as well be an extra player on the field with how much a legit line will help Flacco in both pass blocking and having a line that can run block.

The days of high paid HBs are over unless you're AP or Lynch. Late rounders that understand a blocking scheme and he'll rush for 1000 annually with a good line.

[hn68wb4]

Yanda just came off his best year at 30, he wont be sharply declining anytime soon. I trust Yanda to give me two good years more than KO. 

I disagree that this past year was his best of his entire career, come on lets be real, he had a fantastic season but the best of his 7 years is simply not true. Are you saying Yanda will be in the league two more years than Osemele or that the next two years will be better than Osemele? i cannot deny the latter and i havent tried to make a point saying otherwise, this is a question of longevity + quality. I believe its easily possible Yanda will turn in two better seasons than Osemele over the next two years but it won't be that wide of a margin. Osemele will turn in two very quality seasons plus multiple quality seasons after that while with Yanda we are talking only a few more seasons left total and theres no telling if he'll drop off after a year or two, some guys deal with age well, others don't, we simply don't know how he'll deal with it.

[GrimCoconut]

i can snap too, can i play center? not to mention that also listed Shipley and Gino, would you want them to play as well? Also Jenson who just spent a season hanging out on the practice squad

Just because you're being sarcastic doesn't make you right. Might want to temper your attitude. You're far too myopic. You nor I know the course of what'll happen with him, so to suggest that anyone's opinion that he could play center and say there are no indications of it is wrong and I proved you wrong. We did try Shipley at center and we obviously let Gino play there. We're all entitled to our opinions. I have no problem with that. But to outright discredit the idea isn't right. Just be open minded. No need to be so definitive.

[Static]

I disagree that this past year was his best of his entire career, come on lets be real, he had a fantastic season but the best of his 7 years is simply not true. Are you saying Yanda will be in the league two more years than Osemele or that the next two years will be better than Osemele? i cannot deny the latter and i havent tried to make a point saying otherwise, this is a question of longevity + quality. I believe its easily possible Yanda will turn in two better seasons than Osemele over the next two years but it won't be that wide of a margin. Osemele will turn in two very quality seasons plus multiple quality seasons after that while with Yanda we are talking only a few more seasons left total and theres no telling if he'll drop off after a year or two, some guys deal with age well, others don't, we simply don't know how he'll deal with it.

 

I disagree that this past year was his best of his entire career, come on lets be real, he had a fantastic season but the best of his 7 years is simply not true. Are you saying Yanda will be in the league two more years than Osemele or that the next two years will be better than Osemele? i cannot deny the latter and i havent tried to make a point saying otherwise, this is a question of longevity + quality. I believe its easily possible Yanda will turn in two better seasons than Osemele over the next two years but it won't be that wide of a margin. Osemele will turn in two very quality seasons plus multiple quality seasons after that while with Yanda we are talking only a few more seasons left total and theres no telling if he'll drop off after a year or two, some guys deal with age well, others don't, we simply don't know how he'll deal with it.

 

I was saying the next two seasons, Yanda will be better.

[hn68wb4]

I think it is assumed that Urschel is marked as the next center.

I will say that I agree that KO may be as valuable as Yanda at this point in their careers. He's pure beast and as pointed out is much younger.

not assumed by everyone, no reason to assume it. Saying he can snap isn't an argument, especially when the same cited article lists 3 others who we wouldn't want playing center in a million year (plus two of the guys are no longer with the team and the other spent all last season on the practice squad)