My apologies Mr. Castillo.

[The Raven]

Detroit had a horrid run game since barry sanders retired.

between 2002 and 2014 they only had 1 season they finished top 20 in run offense which was last year when they where #17.

yeah they seemed to had issues with the run game way before Caldwell came around.

also Caldwell became the HC there and he has an OC and o-line coordinator + he isent the GM so i fail to see how you can blame him since he has been there for 1 season.

 

I don't even know how you can bring up the colts cause they had no run game since edgerrin james left in 2005.

what is interesting is that Caldwell was an HC assistant and QB coach from 2002 - 2008 and he became the HC from 2009-2011.

at no point was he an OC or o-line coach and before he became the HC and after he left the Colts had issues running the ball.

heck 3 years later they still struggle.

How you want to link that teams issues to him is beyond me.

 

Also im pretty sure many other QBs would find his terminology complex if he using the same he was used to using with peyton manning.

I still don't see how his terminology as a position coach would affect other positions.

 

his 1 season as on OC with the ravens he was using Cameron book since he doesent have an own play book but i doubt he could determine what terminology position coaches should use with their group lol.

especially when you consider we had moeller and Castillo for 1 group.....

 

its a myth that bad run games follow Caldwell since he has never been in charge of fixing them in the first place.

 

a QB coach doesent involve himself in the run game and a HC hires coordinators and position coaches to do it for him.

 

its like saying its harbough fault the WRs struggle or the safeties cant cover totally disregarding the  OC/DC and position coaches lmao

 

you are stretching things for Castillo sake.

 

just like you are suggesting Castillo is the reason we had a succesfull run game , disregarding the fact we brought in an OC who has been producing pro bowl rbs for over 20 years......

 

I'm not discounting Kubiak's contributions. I'm only discounting the idea that Kubiak led the offense to success in spite of Castillo, as you and others seem to imply.

[Tru11]

I'm not discounting Kubiak's contributions. I'm only discounting the idea that Kubiak led the offense to success in spite of Castillo, as you and others seem to imply.

 

kubiak has like 2 decades of leading an succesfull offense.

I doubt we would had less success if we kept moeller instead of Castillo.

moeller did quite a job with the browns o-line btw especially since they lost mack for the season.

 

also it seems more like you where pushing all the blame to Caldwell instead of Castillo.

 

I still want to know how a QB coach/assistent HC can be held responsible for the offense struggling to run the ball.

 Or how a 1st year HC is supposed to turn a team that has struggled to run the ball for over 12 seasons into a top running team neglecting the fact the he hires OC and position coaches to do it for him since he himself has 0 experience in doing it himself...

[The Raven]

kubiak has like 2 decades of leading an succesfull offense.

I doubt we would had less success if we kept moeller instead of Castillo.

moeller did quite a job with the browns o-line btw especially since they lost mack for the season.

 

also it seems more like you where pushing all the blame to Caldwell instead of Castillo.

 

I still want to know how a QB coach/assistent HC can be held responsible for the offense struggling to run the ball.

 Or how a 1st year HC is supposed to turn a team that has struggled to run the ball for over 12 seasons into a top running team neglecting the fact the he hires OC and position coaches to do it for him since he himself has 0 experience in doing it himself...

 

Castillo is extremely well respected in NFL circles and has a strong resume. But some people like you seem to think he's had nothing to do with our success.

 

So, what you're telling me is that it makes more sense to blame a bad season on a well-respected OL coach than an offensive coordinator who to this day has never coached a team, as a HC or OC, that has had a good running game. You're right. Castillo had nothing to do with our success, and he just rode on Kubiak's coat tails. Not like Castillo has a pretty impressive resume too. 

[GrimCoconut]

I still stand firm that it's hard to say who influenced a return of a dominant Ravens OL. We'll find out the answer possibly this year.

[The Raven]

I still stand firm that it's hard to say who influenced a return of a dominant Ravens OL. We'll find out the answer possibly this year.

 

I think it's equal parts Castillo and Kubiak. Kubiak's scheme was a better fit for the line than Caldwell's scheme, and the line's technique looked world's better this year than last year, and that's undoubtedly Castillo's influence. 

[Tru11]

Castillo is extremely well respected in NFL circles and has a strong resume. But some people like you seem to think he's had nothing to do with our success.

 

So, what you're telling me is that it makes more sense to blame a bad season on a well-respected OL coach than an offensive coordinator who to this day has never coached a team, as a HC or OC, that has had a good running game. You're right. Castillo had nothing to do with our success, and he just rode on Kubiak's coat tails. Not like Castillo has a pretty impressive resume too. 

 

so Caldwell and Kubiak aren't respected?

seems teams are offering them HC jobs so they must be doing something better lol.

 

also it makes sense to blame the o-line coach when the o-line isent producing.

it makes even more sense when the cause is that same o-line coach trying to implemend a new scheme.

 

it makes less sense to blame the OC who is using the previous OC scheme and has little knowledge on how to coach the o-line.

 

since are on the topic of making sense.

im still waiting on you to explain how blaiming the QB coach for a terrible running game makes any sense.

im have no idea how coaching a QB can influence the o-line run blocking but apparently you do since you blamed Caldwell for the colts troubles.

 

Im willing to bet if we put kubiak resume next to that of Castillo , kubiak will come on top.

his scheme is known to produce pro bowl RBs regardless of o-line coach.

 

 

I think it's equal parts Castillo and Kubiak. Kubiak's scheme was a better fit for the line than Caldwell's scheme, and the line's technique looked world's better this year than last year, and that's undoubtedly Castillo's influence. 

Caldwell did not have a scheme.

he used Cameron playbook.

 

the zone blocking scheme we used in 2013 was that of Castillo.

he was hired to install that scheme.

harbough said so and he was even promised it would have gotten better later in the season which it did not.

 

stop trying to blame Caldwell.

[beasy2487]

so Caldwell and Kubiak aren't respected?

seems teams are offering them HC jobs so they must be doing something better lol.

also it makes sense to blame the o-line coach when the o-line isent producing.

it makes even more sense when the cause is that same o-line coach trying to implemend a new scheme.

it makes less sense to blame the OC who is using the previous OC scheme and has little knowledge on how to coach the o-line.

since are on the topic of making sense.

im still waiting on you to explain how blaiming the QB coach for a terrible running game makes any sense.

im have no idea how coaching a QB can influence the o-line run blocking but apparently you do since you blamed Caldwell for the colts troubles.

Im willing to bet if we put kubiak resume next to that of Castillo , kubiak will come on top.

his scheme is known to produce pro bowl RBs regardless of o-line coach.

Caldwell did not have a scheme.

he used Cameron playbook.

the zone blocking scheme we used in 2013 was that of Castillo.

he was hired to install that scheme.

harbough said so and he was even promised it would have gotten better later in the season which it did not.

stop trying to blame Caldwell.

or, perhaps the coaches, players, and personnel all deserve some blame for the 2013 debacle and some credit for the 2014 turnaround?

no one on this forum knows the nuances of responsibilities on this team so why not just accept that 2013 was bad, 2014 was good, and Castillo had a role to play in all of it?

[Ravenslifer]

I think the issue between 2013 and 2014 was 2 fold: one, injuries and offseason departures left a lot of major o-line issues that were resolved in 2014.  And 2, Caldwell came from a traditional offensive system that employed a lot of no huddle but at it's core was still about basic blocking schemes, where as Castillo came from a WCO style that featured a lot of the ZBS, which is also what Kubiak was used to using.  I think it's simply a case of an o-line coach being more fit for the latter's style than the former.  The good news is I believe Trestman is not only a WCO guy but that he generally employed a zone-blocking scheme in Chicago - essentially I don't expect the basic concepts and goals of Trestman will differ all that much from Kubiak, meaning Trestman-Castillo will be a lot closer to Kubiak-Castillo than Caldwell-Castillo.

[Tru11]

or, perhaps the coaches, players, and personnel all deserve some blame for the 2013 debacle and some credit for the 2014 turnaround?

no one on this forum knows the nuances of responsibilities on this team so why not just accept that 2013 was bad, 2014 was good, and Castillo had a role to play in all of it?

 

or perhaps you should read the whole discussion before replying?

 

this started when 1 person blamed caldwell for the issues concerning the run game in 2013 and also being the reason the colts and lions run game are bad.

 

now im debating thats not right since we had a new hired run game coördinator to install the zone blocking scheme.

 

you dont really need any nuances of responsibility when you have a person with the job function ``run game coordinator`` , to decide who is responsible when the run game doesent work.

the job title is pretty much a give away lol.

 

also all you need is some common sense to figure out a QB coach doesent really have much to do with how the run game functions.

 

seriously the title QB coach kind of gives away what his job is supposed to be dont you think.

 

now ofcourse things arent this simple and numerous factors can cause something to not function properly but its safe to say that problems with the run game should fall on the run game coördinator first lol

 

also lets be real here.

kubiak and his scheme has been producing for over 2 decades now.

is it really that far fetched to credit him the most for turning things around?

[bMore Heathen]

I still stand firm that it's hard to say who influenced a return of a dominant Ravens OL. We'll find out the answer possibly this year.

Agreed. I think a big part of the problem was Moller and Castillo trying to coach together. They had 2 different styles and I think it was a case of too many cooks in the kitchen. Castillo is obviously a good coach, he has dominate lines in Philly before he came here. Once we got rid of Moller, Kubiak simplified things slightly and we were dominate. I don't think that's coincidence.

[Cillmatic]

Lol, nope. He was awful then and he's awful now.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Cillmatic

[BSHU_Miami]

I apologize for apologizing

[ratedr]

Yep, I'm not apologizing to him just yet.

Well well well...

[ratedr]

I wonder if there will be a thread like this on Dean Peas ?

I think we have the answer to that...

 

This is definitely one of the best bumps on this forum. Lol.

[redrum52]

I apologize for apologizing

Lmao

[ravensdfan]

Exactly my thought. When Kubiak came in many said it would help the O line because he had his own way of running the ZBS. Hopefully they just stick with it and we don't revert to Castillo's way.

Huh what do you know

[Dr. Kelley]

Ha this is a gem to dust off and read through again

[Tru11]

ow kubiak how quick you are forgotten and how fast they are willing to give others credit for your work lol

 

so we just forget its kubiak zone blocking scheme we where using not to mention first thing kubiak did was change the terminologie for the o-line making it easier.

 

 

Exactly my thought. When Kubiak came in many said it would help the O line because he had his own way of running the ZBS. Hopefully they just stick with it and we don't revert to Castillo's way.

 

we sure called it milady 

[SomeCreepinaVan]

Haha I remember almost apologizing, but then thought we'll truly see next season about him without Kubiak.

[GrimCoconut]

Come on, Juan. Get this group right.

[SomeCreepinaVan]

I wish this cancer would be exercised from us already. Last year our line use to move together to create holes and go after the d-line. Now they just stand there and look lathargic like in 2013. Look at how our O-line moved, nothing like this years. Ogden is right about what he said about Castillo not using Kubiak's ZBS scheme and going to man blocking. Forsett highlights

Ray Rice had a terrible year with Castillo.

Forsett leads the league with 5.4 yards per carry last year and now he's a scrub because of Castillo. Edited October 5, 2015 by SomeCreepinaVan

[H8ME]

Omg, this thread is hilarious. A classic!

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Don't mean to say I told ya so... but I did.

Actually. I'm with you here(even if this was months ago).. But you'll have to defend this.

The oline has improved play in recent weeks pass blocking wise. So yeah. I think we need a new center though. And Monroe to come back.

[JoeyFlex5]

Solid necro, I second this.

[Tru11]

Actually. I'm with you here(even if this was months ago).. But you'll have to defend this.

The oline has improved play in recent weeks pass blocking wise. So yeah. I think we need a new center though. And Monroe to come back.

 

run blocking looks just as terrible as it was in 2013 though and hurst seems to play much worse then last year.

same goes for  everyone bar yanda tbh.

[RaineV1]

I would say Castillo only works well with certain OC's, and Trestman isn't one of them.

[poescrows]

Wasn't a fan then, not one now. The best the O-line did while Juan's been here was when Kube took it over for a year. Pees is worthless too.

[The Raven]

Actually. I'm with you here(even if this was months ago).. But you'll have to defend this.

The oline has improved play in recent weeks pass blocking wise. So yeah. I think we need a new center though. And Monroe to come back.

 

It's difficult to play offensive line when you're playing from behind. When you can't establish the run game, when you can't convert on third down, you can't do it. Joe hasn't been sacked since week one. Oline is doing enough. But Trestman is not running the ball enough, and he's not calling enough short passes. 

 

When you're passing 45 times a game, running it less than 20, and playing from behind, the oline is set up to fail. It's a fact jack,

[SomeCreepinaVan]

I wish this cancer would be exercised from us already. Last year our line use to move together to create holes and go after the d-line. Now they just stand there and look lathargic like in 2013. Look at how our O-line moved, nothing like this years. Ogden is right about what he said about Castillo not using Kubiak's ZBS scheme and going to man blocking. Forsett highlights http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up83IHESwgo

Ray Rice had a terrible year with Castillo.

Forsett leads the league with 5.6 yards per carry last year and now he's a scrub because of Castillo.

It's clear we went back to ZBS against the Steelers and we looked great at it. Forsett made those 150 rush yards look easy.

[Ravenseconbeast]

....anddddd after one year we are back in the dumps in OL position.    So 3 terrible years and 1 decent one.   Nope.  No need to apologize.

 

I would say Kubiak's scheme helped our line more than castillo grooming the players.  but w/e.