Bernard Pierce arrested and released

[Moderator 3]

You're correct. The way a company feels its reputation is affected by an employee (and their actions) has nothing to do with due process or the right to a trial or anything like that. Said company is allowed to wait on the results of any trial - and obviously a lot of them do - but there's no obligation at all.

 

Since a mod deleted my last part, I'll just say that it's why people have been cut and suspended for far less.

At least it wasn't me.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

Yes but I am absolutely convinced that the Ravens didn't cut Pierce on news report or someone's twitter post - they have enough relevant information to make a decision like this. It was a clear cut DUI and even Pierce is not denying it. Why waste any time? Outcome of the due legal proceedings would be 100% identical.

It just sets a dangerous precedent. Yes, he or any player could be found guilty after due process, but they could also be found innocent, as well. I didn't know that Pierce already declared that he was guilty. That's interesting. If he did that to allow the FO to make the necessary moves to go forward with it plans that would be honorable.

 

However, if he only admitted to the arrest and charges (imho) no actions should have been taken without due process. NFL teams playing judge and jury just sets a bad precedent.

 

Love my Ravens, but Ray Lewis and possibly many others wouldn't be HOFers with this kind of rush-to-judgment, reactionary thinking. Just saying.

[Inqui]

At least it wasn't me.

 

It was perhaps a bit abstract, so I can (albeit begrudgingly) see why it might have been done.

 

Point stands though, people have been suspended or cut for far smaller stuff than getting done for drink-driving, and in all kinds of sports from all around the world.

[Inqui]

It just sets a dangerous precedent. Yes, he or any player could be found guilty after due process, but they could also be found innocent, as well. I didn't know that Pierce already declared that he was guilty. That's interesting. If he did that to allow the FO to make the necessary moves to go forward with it plans that would be honorable.

 

However, if he only admitted to the arrest and charges (imho) no actions should have been taken without due process. NFL teams playing judge and jury just sets a bad precedent.

 

Love my Ravens, but Ray Lewis and possibly many others wouldn't be HOFers with this kind of rush-to-judgment, reactionary thinking. Just saying.

I can tie what you're saying to what ratedr said a few posts up the page - about how if it wasn't some struggling RB2 the treatment would have been a bit different. If it had been Joe in this situation we'd already have a(n insincere) statement from the FO about due process and giving him the help he needs and a second chance and blah blah.

 

It's why you tolerate antics from talented guys like Terrell Owens and not some camp body like Aaron Mellette. As some band whose name I've forgotten once said, "we can afford to wait for talented people [in the context of some guy who was always late to practice but was good enough to keep around despite that]". But because it's Pierce, he's done. And I think the FO has decided to be a little more decisive with these things after the past offseason. It's not fair, but such is life I guess.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

I can tie what you're saying to what ratedr said a few posts up the page - about how if it wasn't some struggling RB2 the treatment would have been a bit different. If it had been Joe in this situation we'd already have a(n insincere) statement from the FO about due process and giving him the help he needs and a second chance and blah blah.

 

It's why you tolerate antics from talented guys like Terrell Owens and not some camp body like Aaron Mellette. As some band whose name I've forgotten once said, "we can afford to wait for talented people [in the context of some guy who was always late to practice but was good enough to keep around despite that]". But because it's Pierce, he's done. And I think the FO has decided to be a little more decisive with these things after the past offseason. It's not fair, but such is life I guess.

That's not what I'm saying at all. Read it again. The statement "Love my Ravens, but Ray Lewis and possibly many others wouldn't be HOFers with this kind of rush-to-judgment, reactionary thinking." was only to point out that this 'new' reactionary policy which wasn't in place during their eras needs to be rethought. It's more about timing - not player performance.

 

Simply: I'm for due process for all players and teams not playing judge and jury (period). I somewhat disagree with you on the  "It's not fair, but such is life...". Life's fair. How some act within it sometimes creates unfair rushes to judgments and unjustifiable penalties that set questionable precedents for all.

 

Sorry for the misunderstanding. If you read my other post in this thread there may be more clarity there.

[DomMcRaven]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/18/ravens-cut-bernard-pierce-after-dui/

 

 

 

Lol, some of the comments are even bringing up Flacco: "If Flacco gets a DUI, let's see what happens then." Wow.

[ratedr]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/18/ravens-cut-bernard-pierce-after-dui/

Lol, some of the comments are even bringing up Flacco: "If Flacco gets a DUI, let's see what happens then." Wow.

If Flacco gets arrested, the world has bigger problems. Like the impending apocalypse.

[K-Dog]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/18/ravens-cut-bernard-pierce-after-dui/

Lol, some of the comments are even bringing up Flacco: "If Flacco gets a DUI, let's see what happens then." Wow.

Tough to argue.

[Tiz]

Does it bother anyone that players are getting fired from teams before convictions? In addition, add-in that other convicted players are still signing multi-million dollar contracts.

Not saying that Pierce may have eventually been proven guilty, what happened to due process? These are some strange times.

Nope. Because they are already free to cut you regardless. You know how we have 90men go into camp and 53 make the team. It's because they're allowed to cut you because they want to.

If you recall jones was cut previously and it was simply because we wanted to. So where's the fuss in that?

[Purple_ICE 81]

I think it's funny that Terrance West was the one who picked him up from the police station.

Same here! Makes you question Wests off the field concerns too. When I heard West picked him up my guess was Pierce and West were probably partying together.

[Tiz]

Tough to argue.

Tough to argue because accelerated cap hit prevents such a move too

[Inqui]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/18/ravens-cut-bernard-pierce-after-dui/

 

 

 

Lol, some of the comments are even bringing up Flacco: "If Flacco gets a DUI, let's see what happens then." Wow.

They're not wrong there. What I do have a problem with, though, is people pretending that's just a Ravens thing or it's worse with the Ravens. Especially if said person is a Cowboys fan (Dez Bryant sends his regards).

[ludy51]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/18/ravens-cut-bernard-pierce-after-dui/

Lol, some of the comments are even bringing up Flacco: "If Flacco gets a DUI, let's see what happens then." Wow.

Seriously? If flacco gets arrested for ANYTHING then it's the end of the world. He's the last guy I'd expect to get in any sort of trouble.

[ravensdfan]

That's not what I'm saying at all. Read it again. The statement "Love my Ravens, but Ray Lewis and possibly many others wouldn't be HOFers with this kind of rush-to-judgment, reactionary thinking." was only to point out that this 'new' reactionary policy which wasn't in place during their eras needs to be rethought. It's more about timing - not player performance.

 

Simply: I'm for due process for all players and teams not playing judge and jury (period). I somewhat disagree with you on the  "It's not fair, but such is life...". Life's fair. How some act within it sometimes creates unfair rushes to judgments and unjustifiable penalties that set questionable precedents for all.

 

Sorry for the misunderstanding. If you read my other post in this thread there may be more clarity there.

DUI is not some defensible position. You are not arrested for DUI unless 2 things have happened: 1. you were driving and 2. you failed a sobriety test and a breathalyzer. You are not arrested for DUI otherwise. If you refuse the breathalyzer you are still not arrested but detained and taken for a blood test to determine blood alcohol content. No one has been found innocent after arrested for DUI>

You might get probation or PBJ if a first time offense, but that is not being found innocent.

[ratedr]

They're not wrong there. What I do have a problem with, though, is people pretending that's just a Ravens thing or it's worse with the Ravens. Especially if said person is a Cowboys fan (Dez Bryant sends his regards).

We have Ray Rice to thank for that. Every infraction is magnified. Though I never read PFT comments because they're full of Pats and Steelers trolls.

[Tiz]

They're not wrong there. What I do have a problem with, though, is people pretending that's just a Ravens thing or it's worse with the Ravens. Especially if said person is a Cowboys fan (Dez Bryant sends his regards).

Just think people need to look back at the Cowboys and how aikman said jimmy johnson gave a similar ultimatum about sleeping in meetings

[Inqui]

That's not what I'm saying at all. Read it again. The statement "Love my Ravens, but Ray Lewis and possibly many others wouldn't be HOFers with this kind of rush-to-judgment, reactionary thinking." was only to point out that this 'new' reactionary policy which wasn't in place during their eras needs to be rethought. It's more about timing - not player performance.

 

Simply: I'm for due process for all players and teams not playing judge and jury (period). I somewhat disagree with you on the  "It's not fair, but such is life...". Life's fair. How some act within it sometimes creates unfair rushes to judgments and unjustifiable penalties that set questionable precedents for all.

 

Sorry for the misunderstanding. If you read my other post in this thread there may be more clarity there.

I see what you're saying. I'm just saying the due process you're talking about really only applies to the players that are good enough to get away with it. And it's the same in other spheres of life. I disagree that guys like Ray wouldn't have been HoFers because I think they'd have been given the benefit of the doubt until something more conclusive came up. Simply because he was a good enough player to warrant the FO trying to keep him around and ride out any negative press.

[ratedr]

The Ray comparison is bad because Ray would've never been cut.

The problem with Pierce is that he's a bubble player. And when you're a bubble player, any trouble you bring is more trouble than you're worth. DUI is a no-no for a guy who was passed by Fitzgerald Toussaint on the depth chart.

[Inqui]

We have Ray Rice to thank for that. Every infraction is magnified. Though I never read PFT comments because they're full of Pats and Steelers trolls.

Agreed. I love Bill Simmons as a writer, but it still grates me that he makes us out to be some despotic organisation that shelters the worst of society.

 

You're not wrong about the PFT comments either. A certain Star Wars quote about scum and villainy springs to mind.

[Inqui]

The Ray comparison is bad because Ray would've never been cut.

The problem with Pierce is that he's a bubble player. And when you're a bubble player, any trouble you bring is more trouble than you're worth. DUI is a no-no for a guy who was passed by Fitzgerald Toussaint on the depth chart.

Exactly what I've been saying as well. Not just a Ravens thing and not just a sports thing.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

DUI is not some defensible position. You are not arrested for DUI unless 2 things have happened: 1. you were driving and 2. you failed a sobriety test and a breathalyzer. You are not arrested for DUI otherwise. If you refuse the breathalyzer you are still not arrested but detained and taken for a blood test to determine blood alcohol content. No one has been found innocent after arrested for DUI>

You might get probation or PBJ if a first time offense, but that is not being found innocent.

DUI's regard due process like any other charge. Tests are evidence towards charges only. The stop itself can sometimes be judged illegal or/and un-constitutional. There have been several cases where people were found completely innocent after due process.

 

http://www.hg.org/article.asp?id=32515

 

Sorry. I'm a little tired of arguing this point. The only question here for me is: "Do you support this Zero-Tolerance policy before due process and convictions or not. No matter what you support - it's your right. I just side on the right of due process before actions. That's my right. Are we cool?

[allblackraven]

DUI is not some defensible position. You are not arrested for DUI unless 2 things have happened: 1. you were driving and 2. you failed a sobriety test and a breathalyzer. You are not arrested for DUI otherwise. If you refuse the breathalyzer you are still not arrested but detained and taken for a blood test to determine blood alcohol content. No one has been found innocent after arrested for DUI>

You might get probation or PBJ if a first time offense, but that is not being found innocent.

 

You, my girl, talk like you have a great knowledge of this

[ravensdfan]

DUI's regard due process like any other charge. Tests are evidence towards charges only. The stop itself can sometimes be judged illegal or/and un-constitutional. There have been several cases where people were found completely innocent after due process.

 

http://www.hg.org/article.asp?id=32515

 

Sorry. I'm a little tired of arguing this point. The only question here for me is: "Do you support this Zero-Tolerance policy before due process and convictions or not. No matter what you support - it's your right. I just side on the right of due process before actions. That's my right. Are we cool?

Here's my thing: even if the stop is illegal, guess what? He was still driving under the influence. Still guilty as charged even if the court says the evidence can't be used so I don't think he's being unfairly treated being released.

 

I absolutely get where you're coming from in regards to things like assault robbery etc. These are things someone can just have a grudge against you and make claims without evidence.

 

We're cool either way. Just that I support your position on most charges, just not in the case of DUI because the evidence is there prior to arrest.

[ravensdfan]

You, my girl, talk like you have a great knowledge of this

LOL

 

Well I have 2 kids who have decided to push the limits on everything before they reach 25. Life is never boring!

[FlocksGottaFeed]

Here's my thing: even if the stop is illegal, guess what? He was still driving under the influence. Still guilty as charged even if the court says the evidence can't be used so I don't think he's being unfairly treated being released.

 

I absolutely get where you're coming from in regards to things like assault robbery etc. These are things someone can just have a grudge against you and make claims without evidence.

 

We're cool either way. Just that I support your position on most charges, just not in the case of DUI because the evidence is there prior to arrest.

We're cool.

Just don't forget to read the disqualification aspects of DUI Tests, as well. It's not just the unlawful stop that matters. The testing itself could be found in error for many reasons. Just in case you or someone you know end-up in the same situation. Don't know what happened with Pierce, but we'll never know to a judge makes his/her ruling.

[ravensnick]

Too be blatantly honest, I think Pierce was gone no matter what. Getting passed over by Fitz Toussiant should have been the writing on the wall for him. We usually keep 4 rbs max and it looks to be: 1. Forsett 2. Lorenzo Taliaferro 3. Toussaint 4. Draft Pick. 

 

That being said, it's a shame, really. Pierce had some much promise from his rookie year and now I really doubt he gets looked at by too many teams. 

[K-Dog]

Seriously? If flacco gets arrested for ANYTHING then it's the end of the world. He's the last guy I'd expect to get in any sort of trouble.

I said that about RR too....

[1/28/01]

Hopefully he learns and can rebound as a player and as a human being. Been there and it can scare you straight!

[GrimCoconut]

Too be blatantly honest, I think Pierce was gone no matter what. Getting passed over by Fitz Toussiant should have been the writing on the wall for him. We usually keep 4 rbs max and it looks to be: 1. Forsett 2. Lorenzo Taliaferro 3. Toussaint 4. Draft Pick. 

 

That being said, it's a shame, really. Pierce had some much promise from his rookie year and now I really doubt he gets looked at by too many teams. 

I agree as well. I think it was a matter of time before he was gone. I thought, like Jacoby, he would be competition into training camp and lose his job (like Jacoby) due to a rookie (WR or RB, in either case). 

[Yatagarasu]

Zero tolerance...

 

We know we ain't touching Dorial Green-Beckham.