Could Aiken and/or Brown fill in for Torrey?

[RavensFanMania]

lol no i meant defensive PI calls, dude is soft. steve smith is the one that draws offensive PI because hes aggressive, fights off the defender and attacks the ball. i'll take him, his receiving skills, and his offensive pi calls any day over soft torrey.

no problem, just making sure you covered it all.    BTW, it was his speed that was causing the defensive pass interference calls.  He'd have a jersey pulled or slow up and have the defender run into him.  That's not his fault at all. 

[FlackAttack]

no problem, just making sure you covered it all.    BTW, it was his speed that was causing the defensive pass interference calls.  He'd have a jersey pulled or slow up and have the defender run into him.  That's not his fault at all. 

well, i can see where you're coming from. but about 90% of the defensive PI calls he attracted, hes simply not fighting for the ball, and looking/ acting like he cant even get his hands up to at least attempt a catch or has completely lost the ball. usually when i see a defensive PI call on your AVERAGE nfl receiver, they are at least attempting to break free from the hold, whereas torry just looks like a dead fish. again, this is something ive been noticing pretty much ever since we drafted him until his release. not once have i ever thought that torrey has potential to be a number 1. hes got speed, but thats literally his only attribute. hes just too soft.

[omar586]

we just need a speedster WR, depth at TE, more CBs, 

[FlackAttack]

we just need a speedster WR, depth at TE, more CBs, 

"we just need a speedster wr"... crickets.

[Ravenseconbeast]

 

secondary woes is the key.   WR looks fine.  but of course BPA.

[FlackAttack]

of course we'll draft defense first. everyone already knows that.

[usmccharles]

I'll give you several - Jordy Nelson, Randall Cobb, Golden Tate, DeSean Jackson, Brandon LaFell. All guys who weren't drafted in the first round that went on to become very productive, dependable players with the right quarterback

Well. Nelson and Cobb came to mind, but honestly I think that's hindered in the fact of Rodgers. I support Joe to the end, but he's not Rodgers. Desean I could see. I disagree with tate and lafell.

[Ravenslifer]

Well. Nelson and Cobb came to mind, but honestly I think that's hindered in the fact of Rodgers. I support Joe to the end, but he's not Rodgers. Desean I could see. I disagree with tate and lafell.

 

I've run the numbers forwards and backwards - Rodgers might be the best to ever do it, but Jordy Nelson has proven to catch more passes at a higher rate over the course of his career than Torrey, and more importantly does much more after the catch than Torrey, even after I adjusted for the depth of the pass e.g. it's not like Nelson was getting a bunch of screen passes and basically acting like a RB, he consistently churned in about 5 yards extra for every pass he caught.  If Torrey was able to do what Nelson could do with the ball in his hands he would have had 1000 yards easily last year - Torrey managed less than 3 yards after each catch.  Again, Rodgers > Joe, but that doesn't take away from the fact that Jordy Nelson can just do more with the football in his hands than Torrey can.  And I don't think it has much to do with the QB anyway - take LaFell for example - last year he had 5.2 YAC with Tom Brady.  With Cameron Newton, who is good but certainly not Brady, he averaged 5.7 YAC in 2013, 7.3 in 2012, and 6.2 in 2011, despite it being Newton's first 3 years in the league.  He actually was better at it with Newton than with Brady, at least last year.

 

I'm simply saying there is a reason receivers are taken in the first and second round, and there's a notion out there that an elite QB can make any WR look like a pro bowler - I just don't believe that's true.  Rodgers would not make Mark Clayton look any better, I don't think he'd make Torrey look any better.  Ultimately the receiver has to catch the ball, secure it, and be able to do something with it.  Rodgers may be more consistently accurate than Joe, but he's not going to make Torrey suddenly go from a guy who catches about half the balls thrown to him, adjusting for distance, to a guy who catches 2/3 of them, and he's not going to change what Torrey is able to do with the ball once it's in hands - that's completely on the skillset of the receiver.

[cushrinada1986]

For Torrey, no. Add depth to the WR position, yes. We will still have to draft a speedy WR this year to get that speed back but Aiken and Brown could help add size mismatches. Dorsett/Lockett, Smith\Alford, having two new WRs that are good at making separation should elevate this teams ability in 2015.

[jazz1988]

every single game, literally every single game i watched when torrey smith was a receiver for the ravens, i saw AT LEAST 2 or 3 dropped passes.

 

I don't know what games you was watching but it's fact that last year was Torrey worst year in drop passes.  You can look it up if you want. Torrey has never came close to leading the league in drop passes until last year.

[RavensFanMania]

well, i can see where you're coming from. but about 90% of the defensive PI calls he attracted, hes simply not fighting for the ball, and looking/ acting like he cant even get his hands up to at least attempt a catch or has completely lost the ball. usually when i see a defensive PI call on your AVERAGE nfl receiver, they are at least attempting to break free from the hold, whereas torry just looks like a dead fish. again, this is something ive been noticing pretty much ever since we drafted him until his release. not once have i ever thought that torrey has potential to be a number 1. hes got speed, but thats literally his only attribute. hes just too soft.

He was a number 2 receiver for us and imo was better than average. I agree with some of the things you are saying btw we didn't release Torrey, he was a free agent.

[Bruce_Almty]

Ravens need a 75 catch, 1300 yd WR. I don't care if he's on the roster now or next month, but we need one.

[TuckerTime9]

Ravens need a 75 catch, 1300 yd WR. I don't care if he's on the roster now or next month, but we need one.

Seahawks got to the Super Bowl without any dominant WRs

[gtalk12]

DEFENSE, DEFENSE, DEFENSE

[JetLife94]

I think for this need we have to go to the draft. Round 2 preferably wether it's fuchness or a WR. We could adressed it in FA. I saw Torrey walking a mile away.

[Bruce_Almty]

Seahawks got to the Super Bowl without any dominant WRs

75 receptions and 1300 yds are not really world class numbers. 1300 yds will get you in last year's top 10, but 75 catches is a mid-20s receiver. 75/1300 is someone slightly better than Torrey. Better to upgrade than downgrade.

[JetLife94]

I've run the numbers forwards and backwards - Rodgers might be the best to ever do it, but Jordy Nelson has proven to catch more passes at a higher rate over the course of his career than Torrey, and more importantly does much more after the catch than Torrey, even after I adjusted for the depth of the pass e.g. it's not like Nelson was getting a bunch of screen passes and basically acting like a RB, he consistently churned in about 5 yards extra for every pass he caught. If Torrey was able to do what Nelson could do with the ball in his hands he would have had 1000 yards easily last year - Torrey managed less than 3 yards after each catch. Again, Rodgers > Joe, but that doesn't take away from the fact that Jordy Nelson can just do more with the football in his hands than Torrey can. And I don't think it has much to do with the QB anyway - take LaFell for example - last year he had 5.2 YAC with Tom Brady. With Cameron Newton, who is good but certainly not Brady, he averaged 5.7 YAC in 2013, 7.3 in 2012, and 6.2 in 2011, despite it being Newton's first 3 years in the league. He actually was better at it with Newton than with Brady, at least last year.

I'm simply saying there is a reason receivers are taken in the first and second round, and there's a notion out there that an elite QB can make any WR look like a pro bowler - I just don't believe that's true. Rodgers would not make Mark Clayton look any better, I don't think he'd make Torrey look any better. Ultimately the receiver has to catch the ball, secure it, and be able to do something with it. Rodgers may be more consistently accurate than Joe, but he's not going to make Torrey suddenly go from a guy who catches about half the balls thrown to him, adjusting for distance, to a guy who catches 2/3 of them, and he's not going to change what Torrey is able to do with the ball once it's in hands - that's completely on the skillset of the receiver.

I've been saying this for years to anybody I talk football to and they look at me like I have 2 heads. They think the elite QB will make anybody look good. Ugh

[jimmypowder]

If you mean receivers he has thrown to that he helped reach to the Pro Bowl then that's zero but a receiver like Anquan Boldin was actually coming off a pro bowl season after being traded to The Ravens. I don't really think The Ravens need a stud receiver at all. It's been proven many times that it's not absolutely needed to reach the playoffs or super bowl. I know Flacco has never had that elite receiver but I wouldn't necessarily call Derrick Mason, Anquan Boldin, Torrey Smith, and Steve Smith scrub receivers.

No they are not scrubs but Boldin,Steve Smith and Mason had all lost a step or two when they came here.  Good solid receivers but not great though there were some flashes of greatness, like Boldin's Super Bowl run.

[ravensnick]

Seahawks got to the Super Bowl without any dominant WRs

And the Seahawks would be the SB champs the last two years and the next couple if their WRs weren't trash. They would blow everyone away.

[PerpetuallyBored74]

And the Seahawks would be the SB champs the last two years and the next couple if their WRs weren't trash. They would blow everyone away.

 

Over the last 5 seasons, how many times has the Ravens' season ended on a play not made by the WR?

2010 - Boldin & Houshmenzadeh drops against Steelers

2011 - Evans against Patriots

2014 - Torrey's controversial last play as a Raven

(come to think of it, they were also the last plays for Houshmenzadeh and Evans as Ravens)

 

3 out of 5 seasons, better play from WR sustains our playoff push to the Super Bowl.

And the year we did win it all was when both Joe AND the WRs played stellar football--even Ed Dickson didn't drop any passes.

[BmoreBird22]

75 receptions and 1300 yds are not really world class numbers. 1300 yds will get you in last year's top 10, but 75 catches is a mid-20s receiver. 75/1300 is someone slightly better than Torrey. Better to upgrade than downgrade.

That would be the best season by a Raven. He'd be only the third Raven to be drafted to surpass 1000 yards and if he could do it more than once, he'd instantly be the best receiver the Ravens ever had

[Bruce_Almty]

That would be the best season by a Raven. He'd be only the third Raven to be drafted to surpass 1000 yards and if he could do it more than once, he'd instantly be the best receiver the Ravens ever had

Being the best receiver the Ravens ever had does not make the person a great receiver. I'm hoping for a top 15 kinda guy with the numbers I mentioned. Hope it's not too far fetched wishful thinking.

[BmoreBird22]

Being the best receiver the Ravens ever had does not make the person a great receiver. I'm hoping for a top 15 kinda guy with the numbers I mentioned. Hope it's not too far fetched wishful thinking.

I didn't say it takes much to be the best receiver the Ravens had, but it would make me happy to have a receiver get those numbers and get double digit touchdowns

[jimmypowder]

Over the last 5 seasons, how many times has the Ravens' season ended on a play not made by the WR?

2010 - Boldin & Houshmenzadeh drops against Steelers

2011 - Evans against Patriots

2014 - Torrey's controversial last play as a Raven

(come to think of it, they were also the last plays for Houshmenzadeh and Evans as Ravens)

3 out of 5 seasons, better play from WR sustains our playoff push to the Super Bowl.

And the year we did win it all was when both Joe AND the WRs played stellar football--even Ed Dickson didn't drop any passes.

So on the money .

[jazz1988]

And the Seahawks would be the SB champs the last two years and the next couple if their WRs weren't trash. They would blow everyone away.

 

They would have been SB champs if they just gave the ball to Lynch at the goal line instead of passing the ball. I'm not saying if they didn't have better receivers it would have helped but it's not like The Seahawks receivers weren't making plays when needed  in The Super bowl. I think  the Seahawks receivers are quite underrated honestly. Doug Baldwin a pretty solid receiver whom may have better production in more of a  passing offense like Golden Tate. Jermaine Kearse is pretty talented  and that Chris Matthew guy was making some serious plays in the super bowl .

[ravensnick]

They would have been SB champs if they just gave the ball to Lynch at the goal line instead of passing the ball. I'm not saying if they didn't have better receivers it would have helped but it's not like The Seahawks receivers weren't making plays when needed  in The Super bowl. I think  the Seahawks receivers are quite underrated honestly. Doug Baldwin a pretty solid receiver whom may have better production in more of a  passing offense like Golden Tate. Jermaine Kearse is pretty talented  and that Chris Matthew guy was making some serious plays in the super bowl .

Baldwin is a lower tier #2 WR. Graham sure helps now, but besides those two, you have a bunch of guys that won;t get near the field on most teams. You aren't underrated if you aren't good. I praise Wilson for being able to get what he does because those WR are seriously awful. Kearse made a couple good catches but he is overall pretty bad. 

[Purple_City39]

Over the last 5 seasons, how many times has the Ravens' season ended on a play not made by the WR?

2010 - Boldin & Houshmenzadeh drops against Steelers

2011 - Evans against Patriots

2014 - Torrey's controversial last play as a Raven

(come to think of it, they were also the last plays for Houshmenzadeh and Evans as Ravens)

 

3 out of 5 seasons, better play from WR sustains our playoff push to the Super Bowl.

And the year we did win it all was when both Joe AND the WRs played stellar football--even Ed Dickson didn't drop any passes.

They were the last plays for Housh, Evans, AND Torrey as Ravens.  It's a shame so many promising seasons were ended by a WR not catching a pass or not even putting in enough effort to catch a pass.

 

Just think, all three of those years were potentially superbowl seasons.  2010 we'd have played the Mark Sanchez led Jets in the championship game in Baltimore.  2011 would have sent us straight to the superbowl.  And with how the Colts couldn't do anything on defense, especially stop the run, we'd have likely beat them also last season.

[JO_75]

From LFW, a quote from Aiken on Flacco:

 

"As the season went on, we got more comfortable with each other and what he expects from me as far as how to run certain routes. We got more in sync with each other."

 

You really can't take much from things you hear in April/May, but it's good to hear Joe and Aiken are getting on the same page. As PB74 said, receivers dropping the ball or making no effort has cost us a chance at multiple Super Bowls. 2012, Joe was on fire with his receivers. Hopefully Kamar and Joe can keep clicking until the clock reaches 0:00 in Super Bowl 50. Let's hope whomever we draft can also click with Joe quickly as well. 

[Guest I-70WestRaven]

To address the original topic, yes! Maybe not in speed but moves, hands, go to, etc... yes! Ozzie will fill in the blanks. You can out run the wind but when the ball gets there? Been there done that, several times, Patrick Johnson, huh?