Can the Ravens Be 2015 Trend Setters?

[TonyTone1192]

Now its Nerdelman and Amendorka in the have no WR skills sets. Most of their catches are really long handoffs. Campanaro has more raw talent than either. Campanaro has more speed and athleticism to make those tough acrobatic catches Nerdelman can only dream of.

Long handoffs are effective in moving the chains especially when your run game is stagnant. I agree that I think camp is more talented than Edelman, but he's got to stay healthy to prove it

[Pirate88]

I know tony lol. I was referring more to how Nerdelman and Amendorka are limited to those long handoffs they call throws. Neither have the athleticism, body control and overall skills to make plays on errant throws or highpoint throws whereas Campanaro does have those skills

[TonyTone1192]

I know tony lol. I was referring more to how Nerdelman and Amendorka are limited to those long handoffs they call throws. Neither have the athleticism, body control and overall skills to make plays on errant throws or highpoint throws whereas Campanaro does have those skills

Oh.. Touché lol

[Pirate88]

I agree with you, it's a team game and one player doesn't win you a Super Bowl. That wasn't my argument.

What I was getting at is Joe is a DECENT QB, I mean how many records does he have to set before y'all realize that? He tied Montana for most TD's without an int in a post season for Christs' sake. Lol

Yes, I know we've never had top tier receiving threats but our best seasons (receiving options wise) were in '10-'12 when we had the aforementioned.

You know how hard it is to find a franchise QB? Look no further than teams in our division, Cle and Cin.

We have a WINNER in Joe, what more do you want?

Joe Cool 2.0 is more than decent. He is a top10 QB without question. He has taken a step up onto the stage with Matt Ryan and Tony Romo and others. He is more than just a game manager. He always had arm talent consisting a tight hard spiral with mostly great accuracy. He can now effectively scan the field and unload really fast and manipulate defenders and has the confidence to fit throws into tight windows consistently. His performance in foxboro shows that he is now a QB that makes his WRs better. He carved up the patsie high priced secondary with a 35 yr old 5'9 WR a one trick pony and young undrafted WRs. He can get better and hopefully will continue to work overtime like Brady does to get more comfortable with his WRs and click better in all situations like when he is under pressure trusting his WRs will know when to break off their route.

[TonyTone1192]

Joe Cool 2.0 is more than decent. He is a top10 QB without question. He has taken a step up onto the stage with Matt Ryan and Tony Romo and others. He is more than just a game manager. He always had arm talent consisting a tight hard spiral with mostly great accuracy. He can now effectively scan the field and unload really fast and manipulate defenders and has the confidence to fit throws into tight windows consistently. His performance in foxboro shows that he is now a QB that makes his WRs better. He carved up the patsie high priced secondary with a 35 yr old 5'9 WR a one trick pony and young undrafted WRs. He can get better and hopefully will continue to work overtime like Brady does to get more comfortable with his WRs and click better in all situations like when he is under pressure trusting his WRs will know when to break off their route.

Agreed. Just wanted to let Tru11 know he's gotta stop sleepin on Joe lol

[Tru11]

I agree with you, it's a team game and one player doesn't win you a Super Bowl. That wasn't my argument.

What I was getting at is Joe is a DECENT QB, I mean how many records does he have to set before y'all realize that? He tied Montana for most TD's without an int in a post season for Christs' sake. Lol

Yes, I know we've never had top tier receiving threats but our best seasons (receiving options wise) were in '10-'12 when we had the aforementioned.

You know how hard it is to find a franchise QB? Look no further than teams in our division, Cle and Cin.

We have a WINNER in Joe, what more do you want?

 

your argument is that the ravens never had top tier receiving threats

 

HOF Shannon sharpe will probably disagree.

Todd Heap will probably disagree as well because in his defense he got stuck with avg QBs through out his career here.

Derrick Mason will probably disagree as well since he was a top tier route runner in his time with the ravens and for a part also got stuck with avg QBs.

 

now before you go on a rant to mention flacco again , im going to point out once again that there indeed was a ravens team prior to 2008.

 

I will again point out that the ravens exist since 1996 and from 1996 to 2008 the ravens went through a lot of avg QBs and im pretty sure calling them avg is being generous.

 

Also then I will finally bring in to the conversation boldin and torrey smith who certainly are top tier talents as well.

especially boldin who was among the top WR in his ARZ days and he set some pretty interesting records as well.

 

torrey smith is the best WR the ravens drafted.

his specific skillset places him among the best to do what he can do.

call it a 1 trick pony or whatever , you simply can deny he is top tier in doing that 1 trick.

if he sticks around he will most likely end up the ravens all time leader.

 

ow and for conversation sake:

flacco has had more talent to work with on offense then any other QB in ravens history so I have no idea why flacco fans think the FO aren't doing what they can to help him out.

 

personally I rather have a good overall team like ozzie has been building every season instead of a great offense only like all you receiver hungry fans want lol

[TonyTone1192]

your argument is that the ravens never had top tier receiving threats

HOF Shannon sharpe will probably disagree.

Todd Heap will probably disagree as well because in his defense he got stuck with avg QBs through out his career here.

Derrick Mason will probably disagree as well since he was a top tier route runner in his time with the ravens and for a part also got stuck with avg QBs.

now before you go on a rant to mention flacco again , im going to point out once again that there indeed was a ravens team prior to 2008.

I will again point out that the ravens exist since 1996 and from 1996 to 2008 the ravens went through a lot of avg QBs and im pretty sure calling them avg is being generous.

Also then I will finally bring in to the conversation boldin and torrey smith who certainly are top tier talents as well.

especially boldin who was among the top WR in his ARZ days and he set some pretty interesting records as well.

torrey smith is the best WR the ravens drafted.

his specific skillset places him among the best to do what he can do.

call it a 1 trick pony or whatever , you simply can deny he is top tier in doing that 1 trick.

if he sticks around he will most likely end up the ravens all time leader.

ow and for conversation sake:

flacco has had more talent to work with on offense then any other QB in ravens history so I have no idea why flacco fans think the FO aren't doing what they can to help him out.

personally I rather have a good overall team like ozzie has been building every season instead of a great offense only like all you receiver hungry fans want lol

Lol what I'm saying is that we've never had receiving weapons where the other team went into the game with a heavy mismatch, if any.

Shannon Sharpe didn't have his HOF years with us.

I know heeeeaaaaapppp and Mason were both studs, I'm not taking anything away from their individual talents. That was probably our second best group of receiving weapons.

And you can't call Torrey a top tier receiver, his route tree is very limited and he proved last year that he's not a number 1 option.

Yes I know about the years prior to '08. But the offense from '96-05 really was never really scary for opposing defenses.

[Tru11]

Lol what I'm saying is that we've never had receiving weapons where the other team went into the game with a heavy mismatch, if any.

Shannon Sharpe didn't have his HOF years with us.

I know heeeeaaaaapppp and Mason were both studs, I'm not taking anything away from their individual talents. That was probably our second best group of receiving weapons.

And you can't call Torrey a top tier receiver, his route tree is very limited and he proved last year that he's not a number 1 option.

Yes I know about the years prior to '08. But the offense from '96-05 really was never really scary for opposing defenses.

 

we did have those players.

 

we did not have the QB.

 

what part of this don't you understand?

 

stop disrespecting heap , sharpe and mason.

they where great players playing with bad QBs on a team that had a run first approach.

 

also torrey is top tier when it comes to taking the top of the defense.

he aint a top tier all round receiver but when it comes to taking the top of the defense  , he is among the best.

if defenses don't game plan for him he will burn them.

 

heck he burns joe haden on the regular when its 1 on 1 with no safety help.

and that right there is the key.

 

most fans are simply not willing to admit that someone like torrey smith does command double coverage most of the time.

 

when torrey is double covered its then when guys like daniels , steve smith , marlon brown , campanaro and aiken shine cause at least 1 of them will get 1 on 1 coverage and thus the better chance to get open.

 

seriously based on what do you think defenses only play 1 on 1 with out any help against our receiver core?

 

opponents do scheme when facing us lol.

its not like they go in the film room and say well these receivers are bad so everyone just play man to man and call it a day ..

[TonyTone1192]

we did have those players.

we did not have the QB.

what part of this don't you understand?

stop disrespecting heap , sharpe and mason.

they where great players playing with bad QBs on a team that had a run first approach.

also torrey is top tier when it comes to taking the top of the defense.

he aint a top tier all round receiver but when it comes to taking the top of the defense , he is among the best.

if defenses don't game plan for him he will burn them.

heck he burns joe haden on the regular when its 1 on 1 with no safety help.

and that right there is the key.

most fans are simply not willing to admit that someone like torrey smith does command double coverage most of the time.

when torrey is double covered its then when guys like daniels , steve smith , marlon brown , campanaro and aiken shine cause at least 1 of them will get 1 on 1 coverage and thus the better chance to get open.

seriously based on what do you think defenses only play 1 on 1 with out any help against our receiver core?

opponents do scheme when facing us lol.

its not like they go in the film room and say well these receivers are bad so everyone just play man to man and call it a day ..

I never said they don't game plan. I gave props to heap and Mason. Shanon sharpe's best years were in Denver. You're arguing for the sake of arguing lol

You can't say Torrey is a top tier receiver just because he can take the top off of a defense. A top tier receiver has an all around game. He's def second tier.

Top tier receivers

-Dez

-Jordy

-Antonnio

-Megatron

-AJ

-Julio

-Demayrius

To name a few. I love Torrey but he's not in that category.

[Tru11]

I never said they don't game plan. I gave props to heap and Mason. Shanon sharpe's best years were in Denver. You're arguing for the sake of arguing lol

You can't say Torrey is a top tier receiver just because he can take the top off of a defense. A top tier receiver has an all around game. He's def second tier.

Top tier receivers

-Dez

-Jordy

-Antonnio

-Megatron

-AJ

-Julio

-Demayrius

To name a few. I love Torrey but he's not in that category.

 

do you even read?

 

where did I say torrey was in their category?

 

those guys are all round top tier players.

 

torrey is a top tier deep threat.

just like cobb and sanders are top tier slot receivers.

or like Edelman is a top tier slot receiver.

 

do you understand that positions can come with specific roles?

 

the only reason im still arguing is because you keep replying without reading properly.

it took you quite a few replies to even give mason and such props after you first felt they where nothing special with us.

you rant about flacco while I was talking clearly about every QB in ravens history and now again for some reason you think im saying torrey is in the same category as megatron and such.

 

seriously 5th paragraph clearly said torrey is top tier in taking the top off the defense but he aint a top tier allround receiver.

how you can take this  and argue I say torrey is in the same category as megatron is beyond me.....

[TonyTone1192]

do you even read?

where did I say torrey was in their category?

those guys are all round top tier players.

torrey is a top tier deep threat.

just like cobb and sanders are top tier slot receivers.

or like Edelman is a top tier slot receiver.

do you understand that positions can come with specific roles?

the only reason im still arguing is because you keep replying without reading properly.

it took you quite a few replies to even give mason and such props after you first felt they where nothing special with us.

you rant about flacco while I was talking clearly about every QB in ravens history and now again for some reason you think im saying torrey is in the same category as megatron and such.

seriously 5th paragraph clearly said torrey is top tier in taking the top off the defense but he aint a top tier allround receiver.

how you can take this and argue I say torrey is in the same category as megatron is beyond me.....

Nahh I don't know how to read.

[JoeyFlex5]

your argument is that the ravens never had top tier receiving threats

 

HOF Shannon sharpe will probably disagree.

Todd Heap will probably disagree as well because in his defense he got stuck with avg QBs through out his career here.

Derrick Mason will probably disagree as well since he was a top tier route runner in his time with the ravens and for a part also got stuck with avg QBs.

 

now before you go on a rant to mention flacco again , im going to point out once again that there indeed was a ravens team prior to 2008.

 

I will again point out that the ravens exist since 1996 and from 1996 to 2008 the ravens went through a lot of avg QBs and im pretty sure calling them avg is being generous.

 

Also then I will finally bring in to the conversation boldin and torrey smith who certainly are top tier talents as well.

especially boldin who was among the top WR in his ARZ days and he set some pretty interesting records as well.

 

torrey smith is the best WR the ravens drafted.

his specific skillset places him among the best to do what he can do.

call it a 1 trick pony or whatever , you simply can deny he is top tier in doing that 1 trick.

if he sticks around he will most likely end up the ravens all time leader.

 

ow and for conversation sake:

flacco has had more talent to work with on offense then any other QB in ravens history so I have no idea why flacco fans think the FO aren't doing what they can to help him out.

 

personally I rather have a good overall team like ozzie has been building every season instead of a great offense only like all you receiver hungry fans want lol

i mostly agree with your stance, but we really do need to give joe a wr, give him somebody that can make his life easier when he needs it the most, when boldin was on the field playing power forward and boxing fools out so joe could loft it up there and still complete the pass, we saw what happened. 

 

even the best qb's need a player to bail him out on occasion, brady won super bowl mvp, and he got to the super bowl because edelman caught his long handoffs and carved up the defenses as soon as the ball touched his hands, joe on the other hand is carrying the team on his back, and has to throw the ball to covered receivers with questionable hands, and he still produces results(wins), and when we dont get the win, its very likely you can go to the film room and point out the wr's more than anyone but the secondary. you can only expect so much from 1 player, and thats all joe flacco is ultimately, he is our qb, not our whole offense, and he needs a supporting cast, the front office has done a great job at going against the grain and giving him a good run game instead of a plethora of big name wide receivers, but at some point, strong running and play action can only take you so far, and when those receivers are blanketed or dropping balls in dire moments, youll be wishing you made a move for a wide receiver in the offseason.

[Cillmatic]

No

[Tru11]

Nahh I don't know how to read.

 

yeah it showed but at least you admit it .

 

i mostly agree with your stance, but we really do need to give joe a wr, give him somebody that can make his life easier when he needs it the most, when boldin was on the field playing power forward and boxing fools out so joe could loft it up there and still complete the pass, we saw what happened. 

 

even the best qb's need a player to bail him out on occasion, brady won super bowl mvp, and he got to the super bowl because edelman caught his long handoffs and carved up the defenses as soon as the ball touched his hands, joe on the other hand is carrying the team on his back, and has to throw the ball to covered receivers with questionable hands, and he still produces results(wins), and when we dont get the win, its very likely you can go to the film room and point out the wr's more than anyone but the secondary. you can only expect so much from 1 player, and thats all joe flacco is ultimately, he is our qb, not our whole offense, and he needs a supporting cast, the front office has done a great job at going against the grain and giving him a good run game instead of a plethora of big name wide receivers, but at some point, strong running and play action can only take you so far, and when those receivers are blanketed or dropping balls in dire moments, youll be wishing you made a move for a wide receiver in the offseason.

 

well this argument was more about his claim that the ravens never had such players  and thus totally disrespecting guys like mason heap and sharpe.

 

im not really interested in a joe discussion TBH.

most fans wont ever admit he isn't  perfect and thus makes mistakes just like any other player so I rather not get into a pointless argument lol

 

Would I like him to get better weapons? sure who would not like it.

Would I like the FO to go against their principles to do so? no not in a million years.

 

if they can get an FA at the right price im all in.

if BPA is a receiver then go right ahead.

 

if they have to overpay in FA I say no cause it will hurt the team in the long run.

if they have to reach in the draft I say no again cause that's how you increase the odd you end up with a bust.

[Tenacious Faulker]

I read through 3 pages of this thread.  What trend are talking about them setting exactly?

[balfan23]

I read through 3 pages of this thread.  What trend are talking about them setting exactly?

The question is, could we be trend setters by doing something no one else is doing and that is running with 2 slot receivers - combining Camp with rookie Tyler Lockett. 

[Tenacious Faulker]

The question is, could we be trend setters by doing something no one else is doing and that is running with 2 slot receivers - combining Camp with rookie Tyler Lockett. 

We ran with 3 possession receivers back in 2010 - Boldin, Mason and Housh.  It didn't work out so well.  The thought of two speedsters who are also good inside route runners is intriguing, but how do you use them?  Without the TEs and/or FB who'll block for them on the inside?  So how do they make that work?  Either one or both of those receivers would have to be built like Anquan Boldin with the speed of Torrey Smith. They'd have to be a bit taller to catch passes in traffic over linebackers,  So now you have to find the "special" players - usually the ones that everyone covets. That's why the athletic pass catching tight ends worked so well. 

 

By some accounts there the "deep slot receiver" has been the newest craze.  Antonio Brown and Jeremy Maclin are the latest prime example.  They line up anywhere but has the deep speed and runs excellent routes to turn swing passes, screens, and short/medium slants into big gains.  

 

Since the Ravens have been usiing a spread formation they'll need to incorporate the I-formation more to attacking the line of scrimmage with lead runs before chucking the ball vertically to receivers on the outside or up the seam.  If they're setting a trend it will likely be a unique situation based on exceptionally rare talented individuals with special plays designed for them.  It will interesting to see if it is something they can imprint.

[Tru11]

The question is, could we be trend setters by doing something no one else is doing and that is running with 2 slot receivers - combining Camp with rookie Tyler Lockett. 

 

pats ran with Edelman and amendola though.

 

both are basicially slot receivers.

 

pats actually ran plays with lafell , gronk /vereen on the outside with the former 2 on the inside.

 

its really nothing new.

 

broncos did same when both welker and sanders where in the line up togheter.

they then had a rb and DT on the outside on those empty sets.

 

2 slot wrs is nothing new cause when saints still had bush and sproles they ran similar formations as well.

 

forgot to mention cowboys did do something similar with witten and dez on the outside and Beasley and Williams in the slot as well.