New Deal for Ngata Coming?

[rmcjacket23]

Especially tough to find in the draft coming up. He's talented and has developed for 4 years in an excellent environment. We'd be getting a true FS entering the prime of his career who's already a seasoned vet. Thats the kind of guy Ozzie would invest in, and sacrifice the comp pick. 

And you'd be paying prime money for something the Patriots have already gained most of the benefit from, hence why we rarely see Ozzie pony up top dollar for UFAs that he didn't draft. Have you ever really seen Ozzie invest in this kind of guy?

 

Even with a Ngata release, I don't see this happening, and I don't think its a realistic consideration by the FO. I seriously doubt they are even remotely shopping at the top level of any position market right now, particularly DB.

[GrimCoconut]

And you'd be paying prime money for something the Patriots have already gained most of the benefit from, hence why we rarely see Ozzie pony up top dollar for UFAs that he didn't draft. Have you ever really seen Ozzie invest in this kind of guy?

Even with a Ngata release, I don't see this happening, and I don't think its a realistic consideration by the FO. I seriously doubt they are even remotely shopping at the top level of any position market right now, particularly DB.

I do recall Shannon Sharpe. You're right that he doesn't do it very often but he has signed for guys. I'm with you, though. It's nice to imagine but I doubt it happen. It does make sense because we are lacking at safety and the draft has been very weak at FS. It's also very challenging to get a FS as well. They are very uncommon, more than most positions. When you combine that with the problems we have at the position and the questions we have in a possible bust, a developing sophomore coming off an injury and a safety with character concerns it looks like a tantalizing option.

[rmcjacket23]

I do recall Shannon Sharpe. You're right that he doesn't do it very often but he has signed for guys. I'm with you, though. It's nice to imagine but I doubt it happen. It does make sense because we are lacking at safety and the draft has been very weak at FS. It's also very challenging to get a FS as well. They are very uncommon, more than most positions. When you combine that with the problems we have at the position and the questions we have in a possible bust, a developing sophomore coming off an injury and a safety with character concerns it looks like a tantalizing option.

He was in his lower 30's when he signed with the Ravens, and it wasn't for a gigantic sum. He certainly wasn't in his prime at that time.

 

He was essentially just like many other FA signings we make... veteran player on a reasonable deal who is probably closer to the back end of their career but still has value in the league.

[GrimCoconut]

He was in his lower 30's when he signed with the Ravens, and it wasn't for a gigantic sum. He certainly wasn't in his prime at that time.

He was essentially just like many other FA signings we make... veteran player on a reasonable deal who is probably closer to the back end of their career but still has value in the league.

I was very young then but I do recall him signing with us and he was a big name TE and we signed him for a good contract for the time. He certainly wasn't one of our typical signings.

[berad]

And you'd be paying prime money for something the Patriots have already gained most of the benefit from, hence why we rarely see Ozzie pony up top dollar for UFAs that he didn't draft. Have you ever really seen Ozzie invest in this kind of guy?

 

Even with a Ngata release, I don't see this happening, and I don't think its a realistic consideration by the FO. I seriously doubt they are even remotely shopping at the top level of any position market right now, particularly DB.

 

It is very rare but he did with guys like Vonta Leach, Anquan Boldin (trade), and Willis McGahee (trade). Don't know what you consider 'top dollar' but none of those guys were cheap and were still in the prime of their careers.

[TuckerTime9]

I'd like Ngata to retire as a Raven but it sure looks like he doesn't want to. Its time to move on Ravens Nation, its apparent that he also understands that this is a business and its all about the money, not loyalty. We have solid depth on the D-Line and getting back Torrey and some of our other FA's is much more important imo. 

[rmcjacket23]

It is very rare but he did with guys like Vonta Leach, Anquan Boldin (trade), and Willis McGahee (trade). Don't know what you consider 'top dollar' but none of those guys were cheap and were still in the prime of their careers.

1. Nobody realistically thinks Boldin or Leach were at the prime of their careers when they signed here, and as you acknowledged, they were done via trade. Boldin also wasn't even one of the top 30 highest paid WRs in the league at the time.

 

2. Leach may have been the highest paid FB in the league, but it was at a whopping $3-4M. Not exactly the high end money we are talking about here.

[omar586]

Ngata might not have that passion for the game anymore, he's just gonna take it easy and make money from other teams that will over pay.

[berad]

1. Nobody realistically thinks Boldin or Leach were at the prime of their careers when they signed here, and as you acknowledged, they were done via trade. Boldin also wasn't even one of the top 30 highest paid WRs in the league at the time.

 

2. Leach may have been the highest paid FB in the league, but it was at a whopping $3-4M. Not exactly the high end money we are talking about here.

 

For the purposes of this discussion, I don't see the difference in a trade versus an outright FA signing. In fact, it's more significant since we swapped draft picks AND signed them to new, lucrative deals.

 

Boldin may not have been physical prime, no, but he had good productive years, is still playing, and did not come cheap - 3 yr $25M extension on his original Cardinals deal. Not sure where you got the top 30 number. I checked on spotrac which, unfortunately, only goes back to 2011 and Boldin ranked 15th and 21st (tied) in 2011 and 2012, respectively, in terms of cash earnings ($6M each year). His cap hits were higher, he ranked 10th and 12th, respectively.

 

Leach WAS in his personal prime - not the conventional 26 yr old coming off his rookie deal - but that's what happens when you only start to stick on a team at 26-27, think James Harrison. He made First-team All-Pro his first two years here and dominated. Figured I would hear the "Fullbacks" don't make that much arguement which is true but Leach was the best FB in the league and we signed him at top dollar while letting LeRon McClain walk. It's relative, sure, but there seem to be a lot of qualifiers.

 

You didn't mention McGahee which I assume means you agree with me on him.

[rmcjacket23]

 

For the purposes of this discussion, I don't see the difference in a trade versus an outright FA signing. In fact, it's more significant since we swapped draft picks AND signed them to new, lucrative deals.

 

Boldin may not have been physical prime, no, but he had good productive years, is still playing, and did not come cheap - 3 yr $25M extension on his original Cardinals deal. Not sure where you got the top 30 number. I checked on spotrac which, unfortunately, only goes back to 2011 and Boldin ranked 15th and 21st (tied) in 2011 and 2012, respectively, in terms of cash earnings ($6M each year). His cap hits were higher, he ranked 10th and 12th, respectively.

 

Leach WAS in his personal prime - not the conventional 26 yr old coming off his rookie deal - but that's what happens when you only start to stick on a team at 26-27, think James Harrison. He made First-team All-Pro his first two years here and dominated. Figured I would hear the "Fullbacks" don't make that much arguement which is true but Leach was the best FB in the league and we signed him at top dollar while letting LeRon McClain walk. It's relative, sure, but there seem to be a lot of qualifiers.

 

You didn't mention McGahee which I assume means you agree with me on him.

The reason a trade is different is because it reduces the bidding competition from basically 32 teams down to zero, because we control the contract and we are the only one's who can negotiate with them at the time. You aren't really competing against the market in this case. We essentially paid draft pick compensation for the right to negotiate exclusively.

 

I didn't mention McGahee because he essentially falls under the exact same umbrella as Boldin.

 

And there certainly are a lot of qualifiers... because top dollar isn't top dollar. Its completely relative. Top dollar for a QB is vastly different than top dollar for a punter. So if we are going to claim that we pay top dollar to players at positions that have a built in lower-value worth on the market, then I suppose you could make that argument, except all that proves is what we've essentially already established... that the Ravens only sign "value" players as UFAs that aren't our own.

[January J]

Honestly I see is letting ngata walk. Don't get me wrong we will attempt to retain him, but if he doesn't except the first and only number Ozzie puts down , he won't even think twice to let him go. That will just help us that much more to get under the cap and have a little more breathing room to make a move or two. Esp. With jernigans showing last year- gives oz even more leverage. I wouldn't second guess letting him walk either- I'm confident that jernigans play was not just an abbiration and I'm confident he can fill that void

[berad]

The reason a trade is different is because it reduces the bidding competition from basically 32 teams down to zero, because we control the contract and we are the only one's who can negotiate with them at the time. You aren't really competing against the market in this case. We essentially paid draft pick compensation for the right to negotiate exclusively.

 

I didn't mention McGahee because he essentially falls under the exact same umbrella as Boldin.

 

And there certainly are a lot of qualifiers... because top dollar isn't top dollar. Its completely relative. Top dollar for a QB is vastly different than top dollar for a punter. So if we are going to claim that we pay top dollar to players at positions that have a built in lower-value worth on the market, then I suppose you could make that argument, except all that proves is what we've essentially already established... that the Ravens only sign "value" players as UFAs that aren't our own.

 

What keeps the other 32 teams from offering trade bids? Instead of dealing with Boldin or his agent, they're dealing with team management. Sometimes, players even have input into these negotiations. Plus, after we traded picks, we signed them to deals potentially similar to what they might've gotten as FAs.

 

McGahee is not the same as Boldin, he was younger and definitely in his prime - turned 26 during 2007 - and signed for more money, relative to the position or not - $40M+ on a 7yr deal (last 2 year options), putting him in the top 5 of richest RB contracts at the time.

 

Point is: you said it was rare, I agreed and provided examples.

[52520Andrew]

If we let Ngata walk I think it will hurt but we should be okay. Brandon Williams has been great at NT so our big holes to fill would be at DE as we flexed Ngata out there. I am optimistic Jernigan can step up and we can re-sign Guy to compete with Tyson for the other spot. I think a good vet FA could be useful as our oldest guy would be Brandon Williams who is 26 but I think that should be a fairly easy hole to fill. An addition on the D-line would help quite a bit but as long as we added someone at DE then we could use the money leftover for other positions.

[omar586]

we're deep at DL position anyway. 

[Pirate88]

Ngata's commitment to the game isn't just questioned just so nobody misses him. He just had his best season since 2011 which happens to be a contract year for him. Look at pix of him in 2013 and 2014. He was no doubt less interested. I'm not saying this to be a homer and think his replacement is better for the team. He is going on 32 and even if he is as good and intense and interested in being the best next year, it will take a multi year deal with big $$ guaranteed to retain him. He will have a big cap hit through 2017 at least. Another vet with a big cap charge and cutting him wouldn't save much.

The ravens proposed several fair contracts. One had more guaranteed $$ but less $$ overall. The others had bigger $$ in the contract but it contained opportunity to cut him if he wasn't playing up to par. His agent told him both were lowballs that he didn't like. The ravens don't need $$ guaranteed to yet another vet on defense on the wrong side of 30!! Sign Docket to a lower priced or incentive heavy contract and let him bring his intense and outstanding work ethic example and training, conditioning, and nutrition knowledge and leadership to the ravens at a bargain compared to what they even offered N'gata much less what he wants and watch the intensity, conditioning, and overall play of each player step up several notches. Not to mention there is already Brandon Williams who is one of the elite and most powerful young nosetackles in the NFL and Jernigan, one of the elite young penetrators with nose tackle stoutness and toughness. Add in an intense and hard working bargain vet to set an example and intense tone on defense along with another penetrating DT like Grady Jarrett in Round3-4 or Michael Bennett in Round 1 or trade up into early Round2 and watch the DLine thrive!! Then sign a younger note explosive physical 3down ilb to play next to Mosley and watch the ravens defense destroy and intimidate offenses in the run game, short and intermediate throwing game. If Webb and Smith stay injury free and Hill returns the intermediate and deep throws will be taken care of and with the DLine and physical ilb's that run and cover like safetys and Webb Smith and Hill it allows the ravens to rush both rush olbs

The defense will be great.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

This Ngata thing is intense. Still no word? I thought Suggs and Ngata were soulmates. Suggs got his done by mid-February that year and we're still waiting on Ngata in March this year.

 

I wonder if this has more to do with the Suh situation and if the Colts land him and pass on Ngata. Would that crown Suh as the 'Premiere Player' at the position? Is this an ego thing? I didn't think Ngata was ego driven. So, why the hold-up? Guaranteed money beats anything when almost all other contracts come with no guarantees. I don't know.

 

Something not quite contract related seems to be driving this. I just hope we come to terms.

 

edit - typo

[JO_75]

Wonder how much of a pay cut we are asking him to take. I saw the Broncos got Peyton to accept a $4M pay cut but with incentives can earn the $4M back.

Wonder if we could do that and make him motivated to play and get us another Super Bowl. Then again if he wants to make money and be lazy, he can do it elsewhere.

[rmw10]

Wonder how much of a pay cut we are asking him to take. I saw the Broncos got Peyton to accept a $4M pay cut but with incentives can earn the $4M back.

Wonder if we could do that and make him motivated to play and get us another Super Bowl. Then again if he wants to make money and be lazy, he can do it elsewhere.

 

We're offering an extension, not a pay cut.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

McCartney used this 'make them wait' strategy the last time Ngata's contract came-up 2011. I'm not too surprised they are pushing the time-line, but to what end? If I'm Ngata's agent I'm seriously considering the 'Redemption' aspect of my client's career. I'm also realizing that my client's past year performance may be in question because of the nature of the suspension.

 

I think both agent and client will come to terms (if they already haven't) that the organization that beleives in them more than any other is the Ravens. The last contract is proof enough.

 

That said, I think this will end with an extension that works-out for everyone.

[rmcjacket23]

This Ngata thing is intense. Still no word? I thought Suggs and Ngata were soulmates. Suggs got his done by mid-February that year and we're still waiting on Ngata in March this year.

 

I wonder if this has more to do with the Suh situation and if the Colts land him and pass on Ngata. Would that crown Suh as the 'Premiere Player' at the position? Is this an ego thing? I didn't think Ngata was ego driven. So, why the hold-up? Guaranteed money beats anything when almost all other contracts come with no guarantees. I don't know.

 

Something not quite contract related seems to be driving this. I just hope we come to terms.

 

edit - typo

I don't think Suh to Indy is realistic. Indy has bigger needs, and Suh isn't your typical 3-4 defensive end. He's much better suited as a DT in a 4-3.

 

Don't see that happening.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

I don't think Suh to Indy is realistic. Indy has bigger needs, and Suh isn't your typical 3-4 defensive end. He's much better suited as a DT in a 4-3.

 

Don't see that happening.

Agreed. I didn't see it happening either, but the Pagano thing and lack of defense is driving experts.

 

But back to Ngata - I'm starting to think that holding out to the last minute strategy will work on his behalf. What better way to proclaim to the football world, "That incident last year was a mistake that should have never happened and has nothing to do with who I am and have been as a player in this league..." - but to hold-out until the last minute. It saids that if the team and fans that are my family and home since the beginning still wants me...I am who I've always been.

 

Just a thought. 

[rmcjacket23]

Agreed. I didn't see it happening either, but the Pagano thing and lack of defense is driving experts.

 

But back to Ngata - I'm starting to think that holding out to the last minute strategy will work on his behalf. What better way to proclaim to the football world, "That incident last year was a mistake that should have never happened and has nothing to do with who I am and have been as a player in this league..." - but to hold-out until the last minute. It saids that if the team and fans that are my family and home since the beginning still wants me...I am who I've always been.

 

Just a thought. 

To me, it doesn't really matter. He could sign five days from now or he could have signed two months ago, and it doesn't matter to me.

 

FA essentially isn't even open yet, there's very few if any players signing with others teams right now, and there really isn't that many players we'd probably be interested in right now anyway.

 

The 10th is obviously the deadline. If he doesn't agree to terms by then, he gets released most likely. If he does, then nothing else really changed that much. Guys like Torrey and Forsett were always likely to make it to the open market anyway.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

To me, it doesn't really matter. He could sign five days from now or he could have signed two months ago, and it doesn't matter to me.

 

FA essentially isn't even open yet, there's very few if any players signing with others teams right now, and there really isn't that many players we'd probably be interested in right now anyway.

 

The 10th is obviously the deadline. If he doesn't agree to terms by then, he gets released most likely. If he does, then nothing else really changed that much. Guys like Torrey and Forsett were always likely to make it to the open market anyway.

If it doesn't matter why are you even commenting? We'll all have to wait, but it matters to me. The 'cause and affect' is what makes some of us 'mere mortal' fans keep checking back in. It makes it interesting when there's no game on Sunday.

[Militant X 1]

Agreed. I didn't see it happening either, but the Pagano thing and lack of defense is driving experts.

 

But back to Ngata - I'm starting to think that holding out to the last minute strategy will work on his behalf. What better way to proclaim to the football world, "That incident last year was a mistake that should have never happened and has nothing to do with who I am and have been as a player in this league..." - but to hold-out until the last minute. It saids that if the team and fans that are my family and home since the beginning still wants me...I am who I've always been.

 

Just a thought. 

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3599/haloti-ngata

[Grapple Raven]

Interesting article!  http://www.pressboxonline.com/2015/03/03/former-raven-chris-cantys-advice-to-haloti-ngata-its-all-about-the-business?utm_campaign=snsdemo&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=snsanalytics

[ravensdfan]

A deal like they gave Suggs would be more than fair and if Ngata feels it isn't right for him, not much the Ravens can do about it.

 

Ngata has to look out for him and the Ravens have to look out for the team.

 

It is what it is.

[Militant X 1]

Interesting article!  http://www.pressboxonline.com/2015/03/03/former-raven-chris-cantys-advice-to-haloti-ngata-its-all-about-the-business?utm_campaign=snsdemo&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=snsanalytics

 

Canty and Ngata were teammates on the Ravens the last two seasons, and Canty's advice to Ngata was clear.

 

"You only have a certain amount of time to make a certain amount of money, and so you've got to maximize that opportunity," Canty said. "For me, it's all about the business. You've got to take care of that part of it. As much as you'd love to stay with one organization, as much as you'd love to finish your career where it started, that's not the reality of the salary cap era in the National Football League today. So, you've got to make as much money as you can while you can still play." 

 

^ I'm all for any player trying to get the most buck for their bang so to speak.  At the end of the day, as much as I love the sport of football, the NFL is and can be a very ruthless and cutthroat business that will gobble you up and spit you out when it is done using you up at any given moment or time.  As a player, you have to be concerned about getting your money when you can get it.  Right now, when a player is "marketable" that is the time to cash in cause at some point in their careers they won't be as marketable.  I'd love to see Ngata stay but if he bolts for more cash...cool and good for him!

[balfan23]

Interesting article!  http://www.pressboxonline.com/2015/03/03/former-raven-chris-cantys-advice-to-haloti-ngata-its-all-about-the-business?utm_campaign=snsdemo&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=snsanalytics

Yeah - I saw that as well. The basic message seems to be - money is more important than happiness. You need to make hay while the sun shines ... yeah, I get it ...  if Canty is talking to Justin Forsett. They guy has made nothing more than a living up until now. He needs to cash in NOW - where ever that may be. This is his one and only chance to make life changing money. He's got to take it. 

 

However, when you're Ngata and you've already pulled in life changing money 5 times over ... do you really need to stack a couple extra million on top of the stacks of millions you've already been paid at the expense of what you may really want to do with your life? 

 

Who knows ... maybe he wants to be somewhere else. Maybe he is tired of being here and wants a new environment. Can't blame him if that's what he really wants to do. It is either that, or he's walking for a little extra money on top of a mountain of money. Either way, it is not going to endear him with the Ravens fan base. His status of icon will be damaged. 

[lgcs27288]

Yeah - I saw that as well. The basic message seems to be - money is more important than happiness. You need to make hay while the sun shines ... yeah, I get it ...  if Canty is talking to Justin Forsett. They guy has made nothing more than a living up until now. He needs to cash in NOW - where ever that may be. This is his one and only chance to make life changing money. He's got to take it. 

 

However, when you're Ngata and you've already pulled in life changing money 5 times over ... do you really need to stack a couple extra million on top of the stacks of millions you've already been paid at the expense of what you may really want to do with your life? 

 

Who knows ... maybe he wants to be somewhere else. Maybe he is tired of being here and wants a new environment. Can't blame him if that's what he really wants to do. It is either that, or he's walking for a little extra money on top of a mountain of money. Either way, it is not going to endear him with the Ravens fan base. His status of icon will be flushed. 

 

Correct me if I am missing something. But was Ed's status flushed? Was Stover's?

 

I dont think his "icon" status is quite up there with those guys but I dont think people will disregard his status with us because of leaving.

 

It certainly won't help, but it wont damage it.

 

And I finally made Pro Bowl status!

[AsianRice]

I won't blame him leaving for the money.....We have ppl to replace him...

 

After all, it is football business.....

 

 

PS: If he is ever leaving for the bigger contract, he is always welcome to come back to retire as a Ravens.....just like Mason, Stover, JJ, and many more....