Cap Situation-Struggles and Updates

[rmcjacket23]

Big signing bonuses and backloaded contracts is what gives us heck. No way out. lol.

Big signing bonuses, yes. Backloaded contracts, no.

 

Backloaded contracts is sort of a myth, considering that most contract salaries in the back half of the deal aren't guaranteed anyway.

 

For example... most people think Joe Flacco's deal is a "backloaded contract". While it would appear that way, he literally has ZERO guaranteed money remaining on his deal.

 

Why it appears so backloaded is 1. large, NON-GUARANTEED salaries in the back half of the contract (which is irrelevant, because the Ravens don't have to pay it) and 2. large signing bonuses that are prorated over the life of the contract.

 

The reason teams like giving large signing bonuses is because you can spread the cap hit out evenly for those and because, if you are a team like the Ravens that has a lot of quality players on decent-sized deals, you can't afford to take a $15-20M cap hit in the first year you sign the deal.

 

There's a reason why there's typically a direct correlation between available cap space and on-field success.

[Ravenseconbeast]

Just imagine if we had player living up to their salary.  A lot of our star players aren't doing their due diligence(Ngata & Webb.)  

 

Pitta and Jimmy would've helped also.  This team would be holding a lombardi if we few players showed up on the field.  

[rmcjacket23]

Just imagine if we had player living up to their salary.  A lot of our star players aren't doing their due diligence(Ngata & Webb.)  

 

Pitta and Jimmy would've helped also.  This team would be holding a lombardi if we few players showed up on the field.  

That's true. We also have a large group of players playing well ABOVE their salaries too, so it tends to even itself out.

 

Heck, our QB has been playing well above his salary for basically six out of seven seasons so far...

[PurpleCity5]

In 2016, we have Jimmy Smith, Marshal Yanda and K.O as F.A's. IMO, I'd rather have us sign Yanda and K.O to extensions, we can't lose those guys. Then use the extra cap boost and keep Jimmy. I love Torrey but I'd cross my fingers on that one. 

 

Extend Yanda>See if K.O can stay healthy in 2015 than extend him in 2016>Extend Jimmy in 2016. 

 

Yanda is the best Olinemen and K.O is a boarder-line top 5 Guard. Jimmy is top 5 when healthy as well. Those are must keeps! 

[usmccharles]

My mind was just blown by all this cap talk. 

[rmcjacket23]

In 2016, we have Jimmy Smith, Marshal Yanda and K.O as F.A's. IMO, I'd rather have us sign Yanda and K.O to extensions, we can't lose those guys. Then use the extra cap boost and keep Jimmy. I love Torrey but I'd cross my fingers on that one. 

 

Extend Yanda>See if K.O can stay healthy in 2015 than extend him in 2016>Extend Jimmy in 2016. 

 

Yanda is the best Olinemen and K.O is a boarder-line top 5 Guard. Jimmy is top 5 when healthy as well. Those are must keeps! 

If Yanda gets an extension this offseason (which I think is likely), I think KO gets the Grubbs treatment and we get priced out for him next offseason.

 

If Yanda doesn't get an extension this offseason, then its possible we let Yanda walk in FA in 2016 and sign KO instead, though I consider this unlikely.

 

I think it will be very difficult to have basically top tier guard money being paid to two guards at once. I don't see it happening.

[PurpleCity5]

If Yanda gets an extension this offseason (which I think is likely), I think KO gets the Grubbs treatment and we get priced out for him next offseason.

 

If Yanda doesn't get an extension this offseason, then its possible we let Yanda walk in FA in 2016 and sign KO instead, though I consider this unlikely.

 

I think it will be very difficult to have basically top tier guard money being paid to two guards at once. I don't see it happening.

 It's still very possible we can keep K.O, Grubbs was a highly regarded F.A, he didn't have much durability problems minus 2011 and was the second best Guard in the league. I think we can keep Yanda and K.O, especially after we reconstruct Ngata and maybe let go of Canty. 

 

Nothing wrong with having two well paid Guards, especially with K.O being young and Yanda being the best at his job. 

[rmcjacket23]

 It's still very possible we can keep K.O, Grubbs was a highly regarded F.A, he didn't have much durability problems minus 2011 and was the second best Guard in the league. I think we can keep Yanda and K.O, especially after we reconstruct Ngata and maybe let go of Canty. 

 

Nothing wrong with having two well paid Guards, especially with K.O being young and Yanda being the best at his job. 

So, basically, if KO has a great 2015 (which would be good for us), he will be in the same spot Grubbs was in, and we will also have some other high value contracts to be handing out as well.

 

Our best chance of retaining KO, in my opinion, is if he either sucks next year or gets injured.

[PurpleCity5]

So, basically, if KO has a great 2015 (which would be good for us), he will be in the same spot Grubbs was in, and we will also have some other high value contracts to be handing out as well.

 

Our best chance of retaining KO, in my opinion, is if he either sucks next year or gets injured.

I don't see anyone else besides Jimmy and Yanda who'll be in a higher priority than K.O. Maybe Will Hill, but we don't know if he could be that guy for us still. Again, Market wise, Grubbs had very high value, teams evaluated his performance with us and how much of a boost he was for our OL, clearly in 2011 we were much better with him at the time. I personally believe we can keep both Yanda and K.O if we play our cards right. 

[0_o]

There's certainly some valid points here, but I think you're making some pretty easy assumptions that I don't think hold true...

 

1. Remember, things like extensions/restructures are two-way streets. In the case of Ngata and Yanda, I agree that extensions make sense. The problem is getting two parties to agree on terms, which anybody should know is far more complicated than I think anybody understands. 

 

The Ravens hold the leverage against Haloti Ngata because we're the ones paying him. He stands to make the largest payday with us and we stand to recoup extra cap space while locking up one of our key cogs on defense. So, needless to say it's in both parties best interest to reach a long term deal. I know it's a two-way street but we're both driving in the same direction.

 

Haloti is due to make $8.5M for this upcoming year. He's not going to see that $$ on the market. By extending his contract he'll likely earn himself a $10-14 million bonus for signing a new extension with $14-$18 million in guarantees over the next two years. Which is plenty of incentive. Don't overlook the fact that lowering his salary cap number will commit the Ravens to him for the rest of his career. Which is valuable in it's own right because it strengthens the longevity of his job security. As opposed to receiving that kind of deal on the market (which he wont) and risk becoming a cap casualty early in his contract. After the next 2 seasons he'll be approaching 34. What team is going to honor the entirety of a massive contract to an aging 34 yr old DT? Not many. If he were to get released at that point in his career it would be the end of his big $$ paydays. So its easy to understand why it's so beneficial to workout a deal with the Ravens sooner rather than later (best odds at earning the back end of his contract) or he risks the chance of being traded to a team who's not interested in a long term deal, which will make him 32 years old and 1 more year removed from any chance of receiving a big contract. Too much risk on his part in not reaching a deal. Also keep in mind he'll be up against a saturated defensive line market with Ndamukong Suh, Nick Fairly, Greg Hardy, Ahtyba Rubin, Correy Redding, BJ Raji, Jason Peire-Paul, Kevin Williams, Pat Sims, Jared Odrick, ect, ect...scheduled to be free agents. This years market is stacked. Tougher to compete for that big $$.

 

Regardless, I'm confident a deal is going to get done soon. In fact, I'll go a step farther and predict a 4 yr deal worth $28.1M with a $10M signing bonus and $14.6M guaranteed or 5 yrs worth $32.6M w/$12.5 signing bonus and $18.3M guaranteed

 

 

Regarding Marshal Yanda, well he's simply the best Guard in the game, he's also the 9th oldest guard in the league. In my mind there's no doubt he's going to be a priority in our long term plans moving forward (as will Kelechi Osemele). So I could easily see us working out a deal with him in the 4-5 yr range for about $24-30M. We're not letting him leave anytime soon.

 

-As far as free agents go, EFRA's barely make a dent in the overall cap and the only RFA's of any serious priority are Justin Tucker and Will Hill. Of which, Tucker is an excellent candidate for a long term deal. Hill most likely receives the 2nd round tender at $2M but will probably count less than $1.4M on the 51 player cap once its adjusted.

 

We do have some UFA turnover but the only one's worth negotiating with are Justin Forsett and Torrey Smith. Everyone else was had for veteran minimum last year and get hit the streets without anyone blinking an eye. It would be nice to retain Owens but if he prices himself out of our plans it's not going to be too terribly difficult to move on from him either.

 

Basically our core roster is locked up. Our cap is workable. Our team is incredibly young and experienced. We're in a good position right now. The draft is right around the corner, which is going to be fun but the main themes to follow this off season should be extensions and playmakers. So dont stress over something as trivial as cap space. Even when our wrists are handcuffed Ozzie Houdini always knows how to escape in spectacular fashion ^_<.

[stampedehero]

We backload the contracts and some of our guys are getting old? 

 

The cap is about to go up anyway so we shouldn't be pressed against the cap right now actually. 

When is the cap increasing? 

[stampedehero]

The Ravens hold the leverage against Haloti Ngata because we're the ones paying him. He stands to make the largest payday with us and we stand to recoup extra cap space while locking up one of our key cogs on defense. So, needless to say it's in both parties best interest to reach a long term deal. I know it's a two-way street but we're both driving in the same direction.

 

Haloti is due to make $8.5M for this upcoming year. He's not going to see that $$ on the market. By extending his contract he'll likely earn himself a $10-14 million bonus for signing a new extension with $14-$18 million in guarantees over the next two years. Which is plenty of incentive. Don't overlook the fact that lowering his salary cap number will commit the Ravens to him for the rest of his career. Which is valuable in it's own right because it strengthens the longevity of his job security. As opposed to receiving that kind of deal on the market (which he wont) and risk becoming a cap casualty early in his contract. After the next 2 seasons he'll be approaching 34. What team is going to honor the entirety of a massive contract to an aging 34 yr old DT? Not many. If he were to get released at that point in his career it would be the end of his big $$ paydays. So its easy to understand why it's so beneficial to workout a deal with the Ravens sooner rather than later (best odds at earning the back end of his contract) or he risks the chance of being traded to a team who's not interested in a long term deal, which will make him 32 years old and 1 more year removed from any chance of receiving a big contract. Too much risk on his part in not reaching a deal. Also keep in mind he'll be up against a saturated defensive line market with Ndamukong Suh, Nick Fairly, Greg Hardy, Ahtyba Rubin, Correy Redding, BJ Raji, Jason Peire-Paul, Kevin Williams, Pat Sims, Jared Odrick, ect, ect...scheduled to be free agents. This years market is stacked. Tougher to compete for that big $$.

 

Regardless, I'm confident a deal is going to get done soon. In fact, I'll go a step farther and predict a 4 yr deal worth $28.1M with a $10M signing bonus and $14.6M guaranteed or 5 yrs worth $32.6M w/$12.5 signing bonus and $18.3M guaranteed

 

 

Regarding Marshal Yanda, well he's simply the best Guard in the game, he's also the 9th oldest guard in the league. In my mind there's no doubt he's going to be a priority in our long term plans moving forward (as will Kelechi Osemele). So I could easily see us working out a deal with him in the 4-5 yr range for about $24-30M. We're not letting him leave anytime soon.

 

-As far as free agents go, EFRA's barely make a dent in the overall cap and the only RFA's of any serious priority are Justin Tucker and Will Hill. Of which, Tucker is an excellent candidate for a long term deal. Hill most likely receives the 2nd round tender at $2M but will probably count less than $1.4M on the 51 player cap once its adjusted.

 

We do have some UFA turnover but the only one's worth negotiating with are Justin Forsett and Torrey Smith. Everyone else was had for veteran minimum last year and get hit the streets without anyone blinking an eye. It would be nice to retain Owens but if he prices himself out of our plans it's not going to be too terribly difficult to move on from him either.

 

Basically our core roster is locked up. Our cap is workable. Our team is incredibly young and experienced. We're in a good position right now. The draft is right around the corner, which is going to be fun but the main themes to follow this off season should be extensions and playmakers. So dont stress over something as trivial as cap space. Even when our wrists are handcuffed Ozzie Houdini always knows how to escape in spectacular fashion ^_<.

Have to...  No.... Must Keep Tucker!

[dhstandard]

Well if that's the case I want us to trade Ngata then... Better to get something for him rather than lose him for nothing

 

Sounds like something the Pats would do....and did with Seymour.

[dhstandard]

Maybe I can shed some insight here. The Cap isn't as gloom as others have led you to believe. Don't trust the websites that strictly give a definitive number or claim the Ravens don't have enough room to maneuver with in Free Agency. 3 areas to watch in the upcoming months where the Ravens can manipulate big cap savings.

 

1.) Several key contracts that we're currently trying to extend and/or restructure (Yanda, Ngata, Webb) who collectively can save anywhere from $0 to $16Million+ in cap savings. Extending Yanda and Ngata make too much sense. Negotiating a reduced salary for Webb with performance and playing time escalators, also makes a lot of sense.

 

2.) Several veteran contracts whose cap numbers don't warrant a roster spot at their current salary (Canty, Jones, Koch). If all 3 were released, it would be a cap savings of $7.5M+

 

3.) Then there are the bubble players, for instance Gino Gradkowski and Albert McClellan; who may not even make the roster at all, especially given their roles and contracts. Releasing just those two players would create an additional $2M in salary cap space.

 

Also, consider the Ravens don't have to dip heavily into the FA market to add premier players. There's always the via trade route. Making a smart trade for a key player would allow us to upgrade our roster at a reduced price, by avoiding prorated cap space that was already committed. For example, Brandon Marshall (who has been rumored on this board quite a bit), recently received a 3yr/ $30M contract extension in 2014, which averages a salary cap number of about $10M per year. If the Ravens were to assume his contract rights via trade, the Bears in turn, would absorb the prorated signing bonus, leaving the Ravens to account for $23M in salary cap over the next 3 years. Or in other words, a contract that could easily be renegotiated longer which would result in a reduced 2015 cap figure in the $3-5M range and a 2016 cap # in the $5-7M range.

 

Point being, the salary cap is extremely easy to manipulate and there are a plethora of clever ways  to work around it in order to upgrade the roster. It's not as big of a deal as others have been stressing. When it's all said and done we'll have enough to add the players we need to take us over the hump. 

 

Restriced tenders, rookie contracts will take up near 10 million alone not to mention signing just some of our many free agents.

[dhstandard]

If you're using Overthecap or even Spotrac as a reference, as of now, they aren't up-to-date... they don't update fully guaranteed salaries until that year begins.

 

1. Sherman's deal is essentially a 3-4 year deal, just like Webb's was. He has $40M guaranteed, which includes a $10M signing bonus AND 3 years of base salaries AND $5M more in 2017. He's essentially not releaseable in his first three seasons, and there's virtually nothing gained in year 4 by doing so.

 

2. Peterson got $48M guaranteed, $15.3M in a signing bonus. He, like Sherman, has 3-4 years of guaranteed salaries, so he's locked in for 3-4 seasons as well.

 

3. I don't have Haden's contract details, but he got $45M guaranteed as well in 2014.

 

In summary, every single one of those guys is locked in for a minimum of 3 years, and most are realistically a minimum of 4.

 

If you'll notice, Webb just completed year 3 of his deal and is heading into year 4, which is precisely why the debate about whether to cut him or not is happening now. Those teams will be having those same debates with those players 3 years from now too as well...

 

And those corners had more than just one good season before getting those contracts...most people don't even know who Webb is.   Everybody knows those 3.

[Pirate88]

The Rice contract made no sense for a RB losing burst. And Pitta made even less fir an already injury prone TE. I didnt think much of Jones either I knew he just had a nice streak. He did nothing while having the luxury of playing with Andre Johnson.Age is on our side with many of these players except Osemele whom could have a monstrous 2015. His power and talent are through the roof!! If anybody rivals Hands as the best it will be Osemele. Renegotiating with Webb Yanda N'gata is in our favor. They all stand to make more $$ with us then on the market due to new contracts to reduce cap hits. N'gata is a big decision to bring back at at all cuz as he gets older his rush ability declines and he is more of a block occupier NT which we have one of the best young guys in Brandon Williams. Not to mention this upcoming draft doesn't have glamour but has several speed edge rushers and deepest draft in about a decade in DTs and RBs. No Super glamorous OTs or guards but again quite deep with quality starters with pro bowl caliber potential. Monroe could even be replaced in the draft and traded. Not saying we should but it is an option since he seriously underperformed. However I'm not sure if we save much trading him. Its far more beneficial if he just plays like he did in 2013.

My opinion we should cut Jones,pitta,Canty. Best case would be Pitta and Canty to retire and make a decision to cut or restructure N'gata. Jernigan and Williams are studs and maybe they will target Michael Bennett in Round 2, He is stout for a penetrating DT or 3-4 End and would make an awesome penetrating tandem with Jernigan. Just one of many routes they could go. With restructures cuts and cap increase The Ravens can have plenty of salary cap space to be active in FA. Everybody is aware I like the FA TEs like Gresham and Housler. Housler can shift into another gear and blow by corners so he would be quite aa mismatch for LBs in our offense. If Marshall is cut the ravens are logical for him cuz his ties to Trestman and wanting to win. With cuts and maneuvering and a great draft of course the ravens should challenge for a championship as and could even be favorites once the games begin.

[0_o]

Restriced tenders, rookie contracts will take up near 10 million alone not to mention signing just some of our many free age

 

Not how it works. Only the top 51 salaries are counted against the cap. Remember the Ravens can have up to 90 players on the roster leading into training camp. ERFA (exclusive rights free agents) have tender amounts that are around $400k-600k depending on how many accrued seasons they've earned. With that in mind, if the 51st highest salary on our roster is worth $600k..then for example, all of our exclusive rights free agents theoretically wouldn't be held against the salary cap. The Ravens ERFA's include: Brynden Trawick, Kevin McDermott, Rashaan Melvin, Kamar Aiken, Ryan Jensen, Steven Means, Philip Supernaw, Tramain Jacobs, Patrick Scales, Fitz Toussaint, Casey Walker...none of whom would apply to our cap in this scenario.

 

This also applies to future draft pick signings whose rookie salaries fall below that 51st benchmark. Let's do a bit of tricky math to understand how adding a higher salary than the top 51st player works.

 

So, lets say we have exactly 51 players under contract and the 51st highest salary is worth $700K. We then sign a 52nd player to our roster for a salary worth $900K. What happens is the $700K salary gets bumped off the total overall cap figure and is replaced by the $900K salary. Where people often become confused is they assume an additional $900k is being added to the total salary cap. When in actuality only an additional $200k is being added because the previous salary cap figure of $700k was already included.

 

RFA (Restricted Free Agents) have a much higher tender amount (assuming the team offers the player a tender). Often what we do is sign our RFAs to veteran minimum contracts and only reserve the 1st, 2nd or original round tender amount to players we believe other teams would sign from us. Of our RFA's the only ones worth offering high round tender amounts for are Justin Tucker and Will Hill.

 

Assuming we offer Will Hill a 2nd round tender (about $2M) then his additional $2M cap figure would replace the 51st highest salary at the time. Lets say that amount is $500K. $2M - $500K = $1.5M. Will Hill's $2M tender would only count $1.5M against the adjusted 51 player cap. 

 

Keep in mind this also works when offering veteran free agents minimum contracts. When we offered Owen Daniels a $1M contract last year he really only counted about $580K or so against the salary cap. If you take a hard look at our UFAs (unrestricted Free Agents) you'll notice a lot of them were on our roster last year for the veteran minimum. When we added Justin Forsett in the middle of free agency for example, he only counted $150K against the cap...even though his salary was vet minimum at $570K. Meaning it's not going to take a whole lot to retain most of these players....if we still want them back.

 

Don't let the "Total Available Salary Cap Amount" scare you. A lot of these websites aren't accurate and it really doesn't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of what we're trying to accomplish this season. Our core guys are already locked up. We're not in a position where we need dozens of millions of dollars in cap space to make additional moves to our roster. We're pretty loaded as is. We do need help in key areas though and bringing in those playmakers to sure up some of our weak spots will require some maneuvering in cap space. That's why extending guys like Haloti has become such a major priority for our organization this year. On the flipside, we did have nearly 20 players on IR last year. Most of those players are still under contract. That's a lot of talent that we're expecting to get back. So there might not be as big of a need to find that help outside of the organization as many have been quick to assume.

[HoldingCall]

Interesting views! But I can just imagine the conversations if the team hadn't given Webb a good deal and he got away and didn't get injured. How about, had Ngata gotten away? Many thought JJ should have been Super Bowl MVP, he was the team's biggest playmaker the season before he re-signed.  Then there is Pitta, who so many seem to overlook in this,  what if he had gone because the team wouldn't pay him enough money?

 

However, last year (2013) was a big problem caused by the panic signings after sending Q to the 49ers and Pitta went down in his first injury. The FO was already financially tight then spent money for a lot of poor performers. That stuff adds up.

 

Included in this is the fact that the team no longer needed to pay, Lewis, Reid, Ellerbe, Q, or Carey Williams, but did need to pay their QB, Joe. If we think funds are tight now, wait another two years.

[HoldingCall]

Not how it works. Only the top 51 salaries are counted against the cap. Remember the Ravens can have up to 90 players on the roster leading into training camp. ERFA (exclusive rights free agents) have tender amounts that are around $400k-600k depending on how many accrued seasons they've earned. With that in mind, if the 51st highest salary on our roster is worth $600k..then for example, all of our exclusive rights free agents theoretically wouldn't be held against the salary cap. The Ravens ERFA's include: Brynden Trawick, Kevin McDermott, Rashaan Melvin, Kamar Aiken, Ryan Jensen, Steven Means, Philip Supernaw, Tramain Jacobs, Patrick Scales, Fitz Toussaint, Casey Walker...none of whom would apply to our cap in this scenario.

 

This also applies to future draft pick signings whose rookie salaries fall below that 51st benchmark. Let's do a bit of tricky math to understand how adding a higher salary than the top 51st player works.

 

So, lets say we have exactly 51 players under contract and the 51st highest salary is worth $700K. We then sign a 52nd player to our roster for a salary worth $900K. What happens is the $700K salary gets bumped off the total overall cap figure and is replaced by the $900K salary. Where people often become confused is they assume an additional $900k is being added to the total salary cap. When in actuality only an additional $200k is being added because the previous salary cap figure of $700k was already included.

 

RFA (Restricted Free Agents) have a much higher tender amount (assuming the team offers the player a tender). Often what we do is sign our RFAs to veteran minimum contracts and only reserve the 1st, 2nd or original round tender amount to players we believe other teams would sign from us. Of our RFA's the only ones worth offering high round tender amounts for are Justin Tucker and Will Hill.

 

Assuming we offer Will Hill a 2nd round tender (about $2M) then his additional $2M cap figure would replace the 51st highest salary at the time. Lets say that amount is $500K. $2M - $500K = $1.5M. Will Hill's $2M tender would only count $1.5M against the adjusted 51 player cap. 

 

Keep in mind this also works when offering veteran free agents minimum contracts. When we offered Owen Daniels a $1M contract last year he really only counted about $580K or so against the salary cap. If you take a hard look at our UFAs (unrestricted Free Agents) you'll notice a lot of them were on our roster last year for the veteran minimum. When we added Justin Forsett in the middle of free agency for example, he only counted $150K against the cap...even though his salary was vet minimum at $570K. Meaning it's not going to take a whole lot to retain most of these players....if we still want them back.

 

Don't let the "Total Available Salary Cap Amount" scare you. A lot of these websites aren't accurate and it really doesn't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of what we're trying to accomplish this season. Our core guys are already locked up. We're not in a position where we need dozens of millions of dollars in cap space to make additional moves to our roster. We're pretty loaded as is. We do need help in key areas though and bringing in those playmakers to sure up some of our weak spots will require some maneuvering in cap space. That's why extending guys like Haloti has become such a major priority for our organization this year. On the flipside, we did have nearly 20 players on IR last year. Most of those players are still under contract. That's a lot of talent that we're expecting to get back. So there might not be as big of a need to find that help outside of the organization as many have been quick to assume.

 

I hope you are correct. I want to thank you for this, if it is.

[rmcjacket23]

I don't see anyone else besides Jimmy and Yanda who'll be in a higher priority than K.O. Maybe Will Hill, but we don't know if he could be that guy for us still. Again, Market wise, Grubbs had very high value, teams evaluated his performance with us and how much of a boost he was for our OL, clearly in 2011 we were much better with him at the time. I personally believe we can keep both Yanda and K.O if we play our cards right. 

Well, think of it this way... who is third on our priority list this offseason to get resigned? Probably somebody like McPhee or Forsett, and we can obviously see plenty of scenarios where one or both of them aren't back.

 

Then you gotta look at the year after that you'll have Wagner (who looks like a stud right now) up for contract... so that would be three pretty decent payouts to three offensive linemans in three straight seasons, amongst other people.

 

There's too many moving parts to look 3 years down the road obviously, but I'm saying I see very little difference between Grubbs and KO status in the league right now. Given that we also appear to like Urschel quite a bit (though some people think he would take over at center in a year or two), he would certainly be an adequate replacement at a significantly lower price for at least a year or two.

[rmcjacket23]

The Ravens hold the leverage against Haloti Ngata because we're the ones paying him. He stands to make the largest payday with us and we stand to recoup extra cap space while locking up one of our key cogs on defense. So, needless to say it's in both parties best interest to reach a long term deal. I know it's a two-way street but we're both driving in the same direction.

 

Haloti is due to make $8.5M for this upcoming year. He's not going to see that $$ on the market. By extending his contract he'll likely earn himself a $10-14 million bonus for signing a new extension with $14-$18 million in guarantees over the next two years. Which is plenty of incentive. Don't overlook the fact that lowering his salary cap number will commit the Ravens to him for the rest of his career. Which is valuable in it's own right because it strengthens the longevity of his job security. As opposed to receiving that kind of deal on the market (which he wont) and risk becoming a cap casualty early in his contract. After the next 2 seasons he'll be approaching 34. What team is going to honor the entirety of a massive contract to an aging 34 yr old DT? Not many. If he were to get released at that point in his career it would be the end of his big $$ paydays. So its easy to understand why it's so beneficial to workout a deal with the Ravens sooner rather than later (best odds at earning the back end of his contract) or he risks the chance of being traded to a team who's not interested in a long term deal, which will make him 32 years old and 1 more year removed from any chance of receiving a big contract. Too much risk on his part in not reaching a deal. Also keep in mind he'll be up against a saturated defensive line market with Ndamukong Suh, Nick Fairly, Greg Hardy, Ahtyba Rubin, Correy Redding, BJ Raji, Jason Peire-Paul, Kevin Williams, Pat Sims, Jared Odrick, ect, ect...scheduled to be free agents. This years market is stacked. Tougher to compete for that big $$.

 

I'm not questioning who has the leverage... clearly in regards to Ngata, the Ravens do.

 

My point is that just because the Ravens have leverage doesn't mean Ngata is just going to take whatever deal we offer. He probably could do better here, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't at least attempt to see if he could do better on the open market.

[rmcjacket23]

The Rice contract made no sense for a RB losing burst. And Pitta made even less fir an already injury prone TE. I didnt think much of Jones either I knew he just had a nice streak. He did nothing while having the luxury of playing with Andre Johnson.Age is on our side with many of these players except Osemele whom could have a monstrous 2015. His power and talent are through the roof!! If anybody rivals Hands as the best it will be Osemele. Renegotiating with Webb Yanda N'gata is in our favor. They all stand to make more $$ with us then on the market due to new contracts to reduce cap hits. N'gata is a big decision to bring back at at all cuz as he gets older his rush ability declines and he is more of a block occupier NT which we have one of the best young guys in Brandon Williams. Not to mention this upcoming draft doesn't have glamour but has several speed edge rushers and deepest draft in about a decade in DTs and RBs. No Super glamorous OTs or guards but again quite deep with quality starters with pro bowl caliber potential. Monroe could even be replaced in the draft and traded. Not saying we should but it is an option since he seriously underperformed. However I'm not sure if we save much trading him. Its far more beneficial if he just plays like he did in 2013.

My opinion we should cut Jones,pitta,Canty. Best case would be Pitta and Canty to retire and make a decision to cut or restructure N'gata. Jernigan and Williams are studs and maybe they will target Michael Bennett in Round 2, He is stout for a penetrating DT or 3-4 End and would make an awesome penetrating tandem with Jernigan. Just one of many routes they could go. With restructures cuts and cap increase The Ravens can have plenty of salary cap space to be active in FA. Everybody is aware I like the FA TEs like Gresham and Housler. Housler can shift into another gear and blow by corners so he would be quite aa mismatch for LBs in our offense. If Marshall is cut the ravens are logical for him cuz his ties to Trestman and wanting to win. With cuts and maneuvering and a great draft of course the ravens should challenge for a championship as and could even be favorites once the games begin.

I'd say there's about a zero percent chance PItta is outright cut... it's a devastating blow to the salary cap to do that. The ONLY way that happens is if Pitta retires.

 

The more likely scenario if he doesn't play is that he's stashed on IR for the season. If the Ravens did what you said, and cut Pitta, Ngata, Canty and Jacoby, the Ravens would save about $5.3M in cap space total amongst the four, which is enough to get maybe one quality player in FA, though that money would likely be spent on our own FAs first.

[Purple_City39]

How come it seems that year after year we are always right up against the cap limit while teams with equal or better talent manage to have so much room?

 

If someone wants to break down our deals that would be nice.  It sucks watching great players that Ozzie drafts in later rounds to be signed away after finally bursting out of their shell and reaching their prime.  

 

We lose guys like Ellerbe, Jones, Graham and probably McPhee in free agency every year and still struggle to be under cap.  I'm not fond of watching our talent being swept out from under us leaving our team with undrafted free agents and rookies still learning before getting picked off once they reach their potential.

As some said, it's because of back loaded contracts. Mainly.  The Ravens reward their draft picks when the time comes, especially on defense but offense started getting that deal too. 

 

Suggs - One of the highest paid LBs when he got his

Ngata - One of the highest paid D-lineman

Webb - One of the highest paid CBs

Flacco - Highest paid QB when he got his contract

Rice - High contract that we are no suffering for since he was cut

Pitta - Not an unreasonably high contract but a lot for a guy who was injured last year and barely played this year

Monroe - I think an 8M average for the worst starting lineman this year (injured, I know).

 

The cap hit for these 7 players is $72,150,000 which is more than half of our current cap number.  Add in Yanda's number and it's $80,600,000 of a cap hit, as of now, for 8 of 53 players.  

 

Now I'm not complaining about Ozzie rewarding good play because they deserve it.  Each player earned the contract, some just don't deserve it now (Rice, Pitta, Monroe, Webb) but that's a serious hindsight game.

[PurpleCity5]

Well, think of it this way... who is third on our priority list this offseason to get resigned? Probably somebody like McPhee or Forsett, and we can obviously see plenty of scenarios where one or both of them aren't back.

 

Then you gotta look at the year after that you'll have Wagner (who looks like a stud right now) up for contract... so that would be three pretty decent payouts to three offensive linemans in three straight seasons, amongst other people.

 

There's too many moving parts to look 3 years down the road obviously, but I'm saying I see very little difference between Grubbs and KO status in the league right now. Given that we also appear to like Urschel quite a bit (though some people think he would take over at center in a year or two), he would certainly be an adequate replacement at a significantly lower price for at least a year or two.

I'm not saying you're wrong BTW, what you're saying is completely possible, I just believe that we can keep them, it isn't off the charts, also, in Wagners case, we're going to have to see how he performs after that injury, it's pretty serious and he can play the same and continue to be an amazing RT, then I'd def. put him over K.O. 

[rmcjacket23]

As some said, it's because of back loaded contracts. Mainly.  The Ravens reward their draft picks when the time comes, especially on defense but offense started getting that deal too. 

 

Suggs - One of the highest paid LBs when he got his

Ngata - One of the highest paid D-lineman

Webb - One of the highest paid CBs

Flacco - Highest paid QB when he got his contract

Rice - High contract that we are no suffering for since he was cut

Pitta - Not an unreasonably high contract but a lot for a guy who was injured last year and barely played this year

Monroe - I think an 8M average for the worst starting lineman this year (injured, I know).

 

The cap hit for these 7 players is $72,150,000 which is more than half of our current cap number.  Add in Yanda's number and it's $80,600,000 of a cap hit, as of now, for 8 of 53 players.  

 

Now I'm not complaining about Ozzie rewarding good play because they deserve it.  Each player earned the contract, some just don't deserve it now (Rice, Pitta, Monroe, Webb) but that's a serious hindsight game.

I think people are misunderstanding what a "backloaded contract" really is. None of these deals are really "backloaded", because while they may have larger salaries in the back half of the deal, those salaries almost all of the time aren't guaranteed.

 

What almost all of those deals have in common is that after the third year of the deal (I believe all of them were at least 5 year contracts), there is no more guaranteed money owed to the player.

 

The REAL reason why a contract is perceived as backloaded, and why the cap numbers seem to continue to increase, is because of the signing bonuses these guys get, which gets prorated over the life of the contract.

 

Ngata: $35M of the $61M was bonuses (57%)

Webb: $14M of the $52.7M was bonuses (26%)

Flacco: $51M of the $120.6M was bonuses (42%)

Pitta: $11M of the $32.5M was bonuses (39%)

Rice: $22M of the $35M was bonuses (63%)

 

I will say, however, that in more recent years, we seem to do a little better in this regard. Suggs new deal has 41% of it in bonuses, but his cap numbers basically flat... 6.2, 6.7, 6.2, 6.2 for the next four seasons, and last years was the highest at 7.8, though that was because of prior cap amounts as well.

 

Monroe's deal is about 29% bonuses, and his cap hits are also relatively flat for the next four seasons... 7.7, 8.7, 8.95, 8.95

 

I know people like to look at the Dalton/Kaepnerick deals and wonder why don't our guys sign those deals, and mostly, its because those guys aren't nearly as accomplished and therefore command far less guaranteed money. Generally speaking, a lot of the guaranteed money in contracts comes in the form of bonuses, because teams don't want to have to shell out $15-20M cap numbers right off the bat.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Agreed. Not sure how we agreed to give Pitta so much money after his injury either. Just stupid.

Bc he returned from the injury and immediately continued producing like a top 5-6 TE. If we didn't someone else would have.

If he could come back and play at the level the same season he was injured you can't assume that with an entire offseason to continue to heal he's going to re-injure it.

[rmcjacket23]

Bc he returned from the injury and immediately continued producing like a top 5-6 TE. If we didn't someone else would have.

If he could come back and play at the level the same season he was injured you can't assume that with an entire offseason to continue to heal he's going to re-injure it.

I think there was sort of an emotional overreaction to Pitta to be honest. The timing of his signing worked out perfectly for him... we cut Boldin the prior season, Joe had nobody to throw to all year when Pitta was hurt, and everybody on the planet knew we needed to find a possession receiver somewhere. He was the most logical choice.

 

Hindsight is a great thing. Everybody thinks now that was inevitable he would dislocate his hip again, but nobody thought that when the deal was signed.

 

As I've reference numerous times... a lot of the bad contracts that people are complaining about now were universally praised by most when they were handed out. Ironically, its deals like Flacco's deal, who people have been bashing for years now, actually seem quite reasonable and accurate given the current NFL landscape now.

[0_o]

I think people are misunderstanding 

 

Another thing people probably aren't too familiar with is the Veteran Minimum Cap benefit. Basically when a player has 4 or more year experience they can receive a veteran minimum salary but have a cap charge that only reflects 2 year experience. 

 

VETERAN MINIMUM SALARIES:

 

 

 

There are limitations that apply such as how much bonus money the player can receive. Also, the player can only be signed to a 1 year contract. So for example, if the Ravens signed Free Agent Fred, who has 10 years experience, to a one year deal for veteran minimum ($970K), and no signing bonus, his 2015 salary cap charge would only be $585K (2 year experience).

 

When you factor that figure into the adjusted 51 player salary cap (top 51 salaries) Free Agent Fred would only impact the salary cap by maybe 100k.

 

Just another tidbit to chew on.

[arnie_uk]

Don't understand why people still debate the cap and how it works, how much money we have etc.

Just read Brian Mcfarland

http://russellstreetreport.com/2015/02/06/baltimore-ravens-salary-cap/complete-ravens-salary-cap-update/

[Tru11]

Don't understand why people still debate the cap and how it works, how much money we have etc.

Just read Brian Mcfarland

http://russellstreetreport.com/2015/02/06/baltimore-ravens-salary-cap/complete-ravens-salary-cap-update/

 

if you post that in the Brandon marshall or FA targets thread you gonna crush a lot of dreams lmao.

 

a lot of people should read this and especially the part of the post june 1 cut designation.