FAs to Consider: DBs

[GrimCoconut]

I'd argue that Sherman and Chancellor would see a definite drop off if they were not in Seattle. I really believe Thomas is the only super star out there. Again, they have a very strong, creative scheme in the secondary that just rotates so many pieces and gives so many looks and on top of that, as you pointed out, they have a strong pass rush. I think Sherman is the most overrated DB in the league, but that's just me. Actually, toss up between him and Peterson.

Maxwell probably actually played better than Browner ever did in Seattle. I thought Maxwell was better than Browner when Browner was there, so I don't see why there would have been a drop off. I'd argue Browner is only solid. He's nothing special and he's certainly not in his Seattle form. I'd very much like to go after Maxwell, personally

I couldn't agree more. Earl Thomas is probably the next generation version of Ed Reed and he masks so many deficiencies. He's the real reason that defense is as good as it is. There's no question that they fall apart without Thomas.

[Dfence4champs2052]

I have a list of potential options at cornerback for this upcoming season. Which of these potential players would Best fit the Ravens Scheme.

 

 

Brandon Flowers

Darelle Revis

Antonio Cromartie

Mike Jenkins

Byron Maxwell

Tramon Williams

If we're talking reality, we won't get near Revis because of his contract history and demands. Maxwell seems to be the consensus around here. Flowers might be reasonable. Maybe Tramon who I think is fast!

[poedacrow]

Before we take any of these shiny new FAs out for a spin we'd best nail down some financing.

 

Have a gander at this;

 

http://russellstreetreport.com/2015/01/12/baltimore-ravens-salary-cap/ravens-cap-issues-set-busy-offseason/

[BmoreBird22]

I couldn't agree more. Earl Thomas is probably the next generation version of Ed Reed and he masks so many deficiencies. He's the real reason that defense is as good as it is. There's no question that they fall apart without Thomas.

Kam Chancellor is asked to be the enforcer in that secondary and not asked to play nearly as much of a coverage role (he's typically tasked with being a rover/robber) as he would in Baltimore because Thomas can quite easily play the single high. Sherman is tasked with playing a cover 3 deep zone primarily and teams won't test him deep because Earl Thomas is right there. I can't tell you how much I've seen good route runners or physical guys shake Sherman out of his shoes or just get right after him. I know people like to act like everyone that comes out of Seattle is some super star, but it's more like one super star and an amazing scheme masking lots of deficiencies.

[GrimCoconut]

Kam Chancellor is asked to be the enforcer in that secondary and not asked to play nearly as much of a coverage role (he's typically tasked with being a rover/robber) as he would in Baltimore because Thomas can quite easily play the single high. Sherman is tasked with playing a cover 3 deep zone primarily and teams won't test him deep because Earl Thomas is right there. I can't tell you how much I've seen good route runners or physical guys shake Sherman out of his shoes or just get right after him. I know people like to act like everyone that comes out of Seattle is some super star, but it's more like one super star and an amazing scheme masking lots of deficiencies.

Yeah, that's completely spot-on. Sherman isn't a bad CB, but Thomas' skill really benefits him in a lot of ways and masks a lot of his weaknesses. I don't think there's a coincidence that once the Seahawks got Thomas they started to really improve as a team. As Thomas slowly improved, so did the entire defense. I wish we had Thomas, but Seattle is way too smart for that. I'd definitely take Thomas over Sherman though, if I had a chance at both guys. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

I'd argue that Sherman and Chancellor would see a definite drop off if they were not in Seattle. I really believe Thomas is the only super star out there. Again, they have a very strong, creative scheme in the secondary that just rotates so many pieces and gives so many looks and on top of that, as you pointed out, they have a strong pass rush. I think Sherman is the most overrated DB in the league, but that's just me. Actually, toss up between him and Peterson.

Maxwell probably actually played better than Browner ever did in Seattle. I thought Maxwell was better than Browner when Browner was there, so I don't see why there would have been a drop off. I'd argue Browner is only solid. He's nothing special and he's certainly not in his Seattle form. I'd very much like to go after Maxwell, personally

Are we not seeing the same Kam Chancellor? Youre not totally wrong in that he has certain freedoms bc of Thomas but my gosh the guy is an absolute animal. He's got the size and tackling ability of a linebacker, amazing athleticism for that size, great instincts and ability to read the game and pretty good in coverage.

I think his ability to erase the middle intermediate to short and run games helps earl Thomas just as much as earl Thomas' sideline to sideline speed and ball hawking the deep center and sidelines helps Kam.

It's early yet but they may well be the best safety pairing ever.

And not to knock you personally bc I hear all the time about this Seattle scheme that helps so much.... Any time I've really taken the time to look close they play one of the most bland, vanilla coverage schemes I've seen. Just when you've got 2 guys at safety who can erase so much of the field by themselves it becomes pretty easy to slot in even average cbs and have them shut down the remaining small zones.

It's the personnel not the scheme. Sherman is very good. I don't think he's the best in the league but he's up there. He's a guy that either gets way overrated by those that like him or far under rated by those that don't.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Kam Chancellor is asked to be the enforcer in that secondary and not asked to play nearly as much of a coverage role (he's typically tasked with being a rover/robber) as he would in Baltimore because Thomas can quite easily play the single high. Sherman is tasked with playing a cover 3 deep zone primarily and teams won't test him deep because Earl Thomas is right there. I can't tell you how much I've seen good route runners or physical guys shake Sherman out of his shoes or just get right after him. I know people like to act like everyone that comes out of Seattle is some super star, but it's more like one super star and an amazing scheme masking lots of deficiencies.

Explain this amazing scheme please?? And if it's all just this amazing scheme there is such thing as game tape that all coaches have access to - why isn't everyone doing it?

And before you say because not everyone has earl Thomas, fine... But if it's THAT great and it's ALL scheme it would at least improve most if not all teams secondary's.

And why did Gus Bradley who coached this magic scheme all the sudden decide to abandon it when he got to jax?

Chancellor is asked to be a thumper bc he's amazing at that and erases TEs and blows up slot receivers. He's like putting 8 in the box and playing nickle at the same time.

Earl Thomas can sit back and just sweep the deep field bc he knows he doesn't need to step up in run support. He's allowed to sit back and play to his strengths bc the freedom chancellor provides him by doing his niche job so well

And that's what Seattle has going. They identified a scheme they wanted to play and then due to excellent scouting and drafting got the ideal players for each major role in the scheme. All 3 of those guys make each other look better, and all 3 would probably see some drop off playing elsewhere.

I'm not saying necessarily that Sherman and chancellor are the best at their positions, though I do think both are arguably top tier (5-6), but they have the perfect skill sets for the role they're asked to play withing the flexible vanilla scheme Seattle identified as wanting to play when Carroll got there.

Identifying the scheme and understanding the perfect players traits for each role in it was step 1 to their success, great scouting and drafting step 2, and player execution step 3.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

If we're talking reality, we won't get near Revis because of his contract history and demands. Maxwell seems to be the consensus around here. Flowers might be reasonable. Maybe Tramon who I think is fast!

If Cromartie comes reasonably priced id target him and draft a cb high. Fill the immediate need with a bargain FA and groom for the future.

That'd give you Jimmy and Cromartie outside with Webb in the slot. And then Melvin and Asa Jackson as primary backups. Pretty good to me.

[BmoreBird22]

Are we not seeing the same Kam Chancellor? Youre not totally wrong in that he has certain freedoms bc of Thomas but my gosh the guy is an absolute animal. He's got the size and tackling ability of a linebacker, amazing athleticism for that size, great instincts and ability to read the game and pretty good in coverage.

I think his ability to erase the middle intermediate to short and run games helps earl Thomas just as much as earl Thomas' sideline to sideline speed and ball hawking the deep center and sidelines helps Kam.

It's early yet but they may well be the best safety pairing ever.

And not to knock you personally bc I hear all the time about this Seattle scheme that helps so much.... Any time I've really taken the time to look close they play one of the most bland, vanilla coverage schemes I've seen. Just when you've got 2 guys at safety who can erase so much of the field by themselves it becomes pretty easy to slot in even average cbs and have them shut down the remaining small zones.

It's the personnel not the scheme. Sherman is very good. I don't think he's the best in the league but he's up there. He's a guy that either gets way overrated by those that like him or far under rated by those that don't.

Oh, I'd agree about Chancellor. He's quite the enforcer and will make you scared to come over the middle. I don't argue with that. However, I'd argue that he'd struggle in Baltimore. He's not asked to play as a deep coverage safety because of Earl Thomas having so much range (and Thomas is quite the hitter himself). In Baltimore, Chancellor would be asked to play the hybrid role and I truly believe it would expose his coverage skills. I think he found the right niche there in Seattle.

I also think it's the scheme, not the players. Maybe Seattle really is just good at drafting defensive backs, but how many other teams can literally just plug in all fourth, fifth, sixth round, and undrafted players and succeed like them? I find that really hard to believe. Seattle doesn't make up or invent crazy schemes, but they do make a lot of minor tweaks and give new wrinkles to basic coverage schemes that are just very brilliant and well executed

[757RavensFan]

Despite us taking advantage of him in 2012 Rahim Moore is a good FS that might not demand too much .Although he might not get along with Jacoby

 

Non issue.   Me thinks, Jacoby is cut.

[757RavensFan]

The system they have up there just makes DB's look far better than they are. I mean, you have to have some talent, but they're really just masking so many deficiencies. 

 

Again, that's not to say I don't think they could survive outside of Seattle, but let's not pretend it doesn't help quite a bit, either.

 

Can someone from the Ravens defensive coaching staff learn this "system" you speak of?  We have the "so many deficiencies" part locked down.

[BmoreBird22]

Can someone from the Ravens defensive coaching staff learn this "system" you speak of?  We have the "so many deficiencies" part locked down.

If Brooks, Mosley, and Arthur Brown develop the way the Ravens would like and the Ravens get another long corner, then sure

[GrimCoconut]

You need the personnel to run what Seattle does as effectively as they do. The fact that they're a 4-3 also helps, imo. They are, however, more susceptible to the run than we are from what I've seen as well.

[52520Andrew]

I won't go call us getting Maxwell a pipe dream but I do think he will be out of our price range. I do think there are some good guys out there who we can get for relatively cheap so hopefully the right sort of deal materializes.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

Well in that case, Taylor Mays seems to be available this offseason if you want a thumper lolz.

ok?

[ravensnick]

Is that a joke?

I don't agree with the original poster of that, but he has a point. Earl Thomas is far better than the rest of the player there. Sherman, Chancellor, and Maxwell are really good player's, but the reason the Hawks can run that scheme is all Thomas. he is by far the best safety in the NFL. He is currently on a HoF pace. I'd argue that Sherman, Chancellor, and Maxwell would all been fine player in another system without Thomas, but Thomas makes them all another level. 

[ravensnick]

Can someone from the Ravens defensive coaching staff learn this "system" you speak of?  We have the "so many deficiencies" part locked down.

Get a potential HoF level safety and run single high all day. get big (6'2" and taller) physical and athletic CBs to manhandle WRs in one on one press man coverage. Get a bulldozer of a SS to terrorize WRs coming over the middle and RBs everywhere. But all that is based on Thomas playing back and not letting anyone beat him down field, as well as playing a huge zone of coverage. It's very similar to what Ed did for us. 

[Tenacious Faulker]

Chancellor or Earl Thomas prototype. We need an enforcer in the middle.

Brynden Trawick is 6'2'/225#.  He's currently on roster until 2015.  It would be nice to get a Kam Chancellor (built more like a ILB) but little guys like Deone Bucannon and yrann Mathieu are fierce competitors.

 

Many of our safeties are still young and the position in the Ravens D is one the hardest in the sport to learn.  Let's see if Brooks can return healthly and how he does with an pre-season of film study.  I'm done with Elam.  His mistakes are just him being too lazy to do his job right. He can go bye-bye anytime imo.  

 

Trawick was always a project player and even though he put Jacoby out for 6 weeks last year I'm willing to see what his 3rd season looks like.  Hopefully he looks at Chncellor's highlites against Carolina and emmulates that.

 

Miles is almost as big.  He had more playing time this season and recorded an INT on Bortles as well.  Both he and Trawick are valuable S/T players.

 

Levine has that hybrid/tweener trait that make him a good nickel DB.  he also is valuable on S/T.

 

If they shop hard for a safety I'd like:

Devon Mcourty - McCourty had a stellar season for the Patriots, finishing with more interceptions (3) than touchdowns allowed (2). He is also a solid tackler, allowing only 81 yards after the catch all season.  

Tashaun Gipson - Gipson is only 24 years old and has led the AFC with 11 interceptions the past two seasons with only Sherman getting more in the league. Gipson would represent the playmaker thye've missed since a young Ed Reed.

Da'Norris Searcy - Searcy finished last season with three interceptions for the Bills and is one of the better run-stopping safeties in the NFL. Quarterbacks had a rating of only 21.5 throwing in his direction. 

[FlocksGottaFeed]

Brynden Trawick is 6'2'/225#.  He's currently on roster until 2015.  It would be nice to get a Kam Chancellor (built more like a ILB) but little guys like Deone Bucannon and yrann Mathieu are fierce competitors.

 

Many of our safeties are still young and the position in the Ravens D is one the hardest in the sport to learn.  Let's see if Brooks can return healthly and how he does with an pre-season of film study.  I'm done with Elam.  His mistakes are just him being too lazy to do his job right. He can go bye-bye anytime imo.  

 

Trawick was always a project player and even though he put Jacoby out for 6 weeks last year I'm willing to see what his 3rd season looks like.  Hopefully he looks at Chncellor's highlites against Carolina and emmulates that.

 

Miles is almost as big.  He had more playing time this season and recorded an INT on Bortles as well.  Both he and Trawick are valuable S/T players.

 

Levine has that hybrid/tweener trait that make him a good nickel DB.  he also is valuable on S/T.

 

If they shop hard for a safety I'd like:

Devon Mcourty - McCourty had a stellar season for the Patriots, finishing with more interceptions (3) than touchdowns allowed (2). He is also a solid tackler, allowing only 81 yards after the catch all season.  

Tashaun Gipson - Gipson is only 24 years old and has led the AFC with 11 interceptions the past two seasons with only Sherman getting more in the league. Gipson would represent the playmaker thye've missed since a young Ed Reed.

Da'Norris Searcy - Searcy finished last season with three interceptions for the Bills and is one of the better run-stopping safeties in the NFL. Quarterbacks had a rating of only 21.5 throwing in his direction. 

 

Brynden Trawick is 6'2'/225#.  He's currently on roster until 2015.  It would be nice to get a Kam Chancellor (built more like a ILB) but little guys like Deone Bucannon and yrann Mathieu are fierce competitors.

 

Many of our safeties are still young and the position in the Ravens D is one the hardest in the sport to learn.  Let's see if Brooks can return healthly and how he does with an pre-season of film study.  I'm done with Elam.  His mistakes are just him being too lazy to do his job right. He can go bye-bye anytime imo.  

 

Trawick was always a project player and even though he put Jacoby out for 6 weeks last year I'm willing to see what his 3rd season looks like.  Hopefully he looks at Chncellor's highlites against Carolina and emmulates that.

 

Miles is almost as big.  He had more playing time this season and recorded an INT on Bortles as well.  Both he and Trawick are valuable S/T players.

 

Levine has that hybrid/tweener trait that make him a good nickel DB.  he also is valuable on S/T.

 

If they shop hard for a safety I'd like:

Devon Mcourty - McCourty had a stellar season for the Patriots, finishing with more interceptions (3) than touchdowns allowed (2). He is also a solid tackler, allowing only 81 yards after the catch all season.  

Tashaun Gipson - Gipson is only 24 years old and has led the AFC with 11 interceptions the past two seasons with only Sherman getting more in the league. Gipson would represent the playmaker thye've missed since a young Ed Reed.

Da'Norris Searcy - Searcy finished last season with three interceptions for the Bills and is one of the better run-stopping safeties in the NFL. Quarterbacks had a rating of only 21.5 throwing in his direction. 

Outstanding Tenaciuos! That's what I'm talking. I can see these guys in purple and black. Thanks for posting.

[Tenacious Faulker]

Our cornerbacks are starting to gain some swagger. Like safety I don;t think we need to blow up the unit and start from new.

 

Graham and Webb will make up the backbone.  Jackson and Melvin are more than serviceable back-ups.  Gorrer can be a noce nickel for us.  

 

If we get a playmaker on the free market I'd like:

Byron Maxwell - Maxwell allowed only one touchdown last season for the Seahawks in the 71 times he was targeted.  He has good size at 6'1"/207#

 

Chris Culliver - he finished last season with four interceptions for 49ers, and allowed only 50.7% of passes thrown his way to be caught, a very impressive number for a cornerback. Stands 6-foot-0 and weighs 199 pounds. 

 

Kareem Jackson - He'snot bg (5'10"/190#), but he allowed only 488 yards receiving last season for the Texans.  He's a former top 20 draft pick. 

[Tenacious Faulker]

Outstanding Tenaciuos! That's what I'm talking. I can see these guys in purple and black. Thanks for posting.

You're welcome.

[GrimCoconut]

I hate to rain on the parade, but Gipson is a RFA and I doubt the Browns simply let him walk. I find it highly unlikely the Patriots let McCourty go in free agency either. Our best bet is Rahim Moore if you want some guy to come here, as I don't think he'll be pricey and we did like him coming out of college.

[Tenacious Faulker]

You need the personnel to run what Seattle does as effectively as they do. The fact that they're a 4-3 also helps, imo. They are, however, more susceptible to the run than we are from what I've seen as well.

Good post.  Very true.  The Ravens do employ a hybrid 3-4/4-3 but they can;t come close to what they're doing in Seattle right now.

[PurpleCity5]

I hate to rain on the parade, but Gipson is a RFA and I doubt the Browns simply let him walk. I find it highly unlikely the Patriots let McCourty go in free agency either. Our best bet is Rahim Moore if you want some guy to come here, as I don't think he'll be pricey and we did like him coming out of college.

I would like Moore as well, now that I think about it, Will Hill is better as a SS. I don't know if F.O will pursue Moore, that's something that seems difficult to see.  

[BmoreBird22]

I don't agree with the original poster of that, but he has a point. Earl Thomas is far better than the rest of the player there. Sherman, Chancellor, and Maxwell are really good player's, but the reason the Hawks can run that scheme is all Thomas. he is by far the best safety in the NFL. He is currently on a HoF pace. I'd argue that Sherman, Chancellor, and Maxwell would all been fine player in another system without Thomas, but Thomas makes them all another level. 

This is pretty much what I'm saying. I think that Sherman, Maxwell, and Chancellor could survive outside of Seattle, but the way people talk about them is as if they are the best at their positions. I think that if you took them out of Seattle and placed them on another team, even if they all stayed together, they'd be just "good". The niches they have carved out in Seattle, and how much Thomas helps with that, is just bringing them into the discussion of best in the league whereas without Seattle and Thomas, we'd talk about them the same way we do about, say, Daryl Smith. A good player, but not someone you'd go crazy for.

[GrimCoconut]

I would like Moore as well, now that I think about it, Will Hill is better as a SS. I don't know if F.O will pursue Moore, that's something that seems difficult to see.

I really like Moore. He gets a bad rep for what happened in the playoffs against us but he's a quality safety. I'd be really happy with him. I'd prefer drafting a guy like Drummond if I had to choose, but I wouldn't mind using that second round pick elsewhere either. Then again, I'm a very big fan of Drummond so yeah.

[PurpleCity5]

I really like Moore. He gets a bad rep for what happened in the playoffs against us but he's a quality safety. I'd be really happy with him. I'd prefer drafting a guy like Drummond if I had to choose, but I wouldn't mind using that second round pick elsewhere either. Then again, I'm a very big fan of Drummond so yeah.

I am a fan of Drummond as well, I like him a lot more than Holliman. But Moore is a quality safety and has a knack for INT's, yeah what he did against us is still not forgotten, just saw an article on it a couple days ago actually, but Moore wouldn't be a bad option. 

[757RavensFan]

Get a potential HoF level safety and run single high all day. get big (6'2" and taller) physical and athletic CBs to manhandle WRs in one on one press man coverage. Get a bulldozer of a SS to terrorize WRs coming over the middle and RBs everywhere. But all that is based on Thomas playing back and not letting anyone beat him down field, as well as playing a huge zone of coverage. It's very similar to what Ed did for us. 

 

If it were only that easy to get all those pieces you mentioned.  Plus you know the Ravens like to get it done w/ misfits and castoffs. 

[Tenacious Faulker]

I hate to rain on the parade, but Gipson is a RFA and I doubt the Browns simply let him walk. I find it highly unlikely the Patriots let McCourty go in free agency either. Our best bet is Rahim Moore if you want some guy to come here, as I don't think he'll be pricey and we did like him coming out of college.

i'm not sure who else asked for Gipson and McCourty, but as for myself, I feel the same way.  I just caveated those by saying "If they shop hard for a safety".  Knowing what I know about Ozzie, Harbs and Pees' M.O. and what they've said recently I don't really see it happening.  Just a 'wishlist". 

 

Besides, you never know, right?  Stranger things have happened...like Dumervil getting away from Denver.  Maybe lightning could strike twice?

[BrianRandolph011]

I have a list of potential options at cornerback for this upcoming season. Which of these potential players would Best fit the Ravens Scheme.

 

 

Brandon Flowers

Darelle Revis

Antonio Cromartie

Mike Jenkins

Byron Maxwell

Tramon Williams

Maybe on madden on my PS4 I can land Revis on the Ravens but in real life.. Not gonna happen.. Besides we have the harbor.. Dont need no island ruining it.. :Lol

 

On another note I like Flowers, Maxwell and Cromartie on that list.. I feel they all are #2 CB material.. with Jimmy Smith at #1 and then you find a way to restructure Webb's deal and move him into the slot corner role..