Cap 2015 - Reality vs. Fantasy

[rmw10]

Ugh .. a new thread titled "Demaryus Thomas" has cropped up. 

 

Please! 

 

It's only the beginning, too...

[Moderator 3]

Ugh .. a new thread titled "Demaryus Thomas" has cropped up. 

 

Please!

It's now merged into the Free Agency Targets thread. When things slow down a bit, we'll set up a FA thread for each major position. In the meanwhile, one thread will have to do.

[Fear_the_Raven]

Actually the rushing numbers were better with Jernigan vs the pass and run.  Ngata is gone and Mcphee will stay. Mcphee can play inside and ouside and Allows other lineman and OLBers to be more versatile and creates scheme flexibility.

I checked the numbers and you're right (well, technically the rushing stats were about the same without and without Ngata), but they nearly allowed a 100 yard rusher in back-to-back weeks, two of their worst games against the run all season.  Granted West and Foster both have a lot of talent, but it felt like more holes were opening up inside with Jernigan than Ngata, whereas containment on the outside was a problem at times this season, which is on the outside backers..  Jernigan does seem to get a better pass rush though.  

[Bruce_Almty]

I know if you cut Monroe I was talking about a trade. I think if anything we would maybe be on the hook for some bonus money at worst case if I am thinking right. Also Hurst could be on the bench with Yanda and Wagner as Tackles

 

I wouldn't touch the O-line except to add a tackle via the draft.

 

Jah Reid will be gone and though Hurst filled in admirably there is a reason he went undrafted. Admittedly, Monroe was not the dominate LT we hoped for; if he's injury free next season, perhaps he'll anchor the position better. In any event, getting rid of a starting left tackle is not warranted. imo

[rmcjacket23]

I wouldn't touch the O-line except to add a tackle via the draft.

 

Jah Reid will be gone and though Hurst filled in admirably there is a reason he went undrafted. Admittedly, Monroe was not the dominate LT we hoped for; if he's injury free next season, perhaps he'll anchor the position better. In any event, getting rid of a starting left tackle is not warranted. imo

I doubt O-line will be addressed other than adding maybe a late round pick or a very cheap veteran FA.

 

Hurst is the swing tackle, and he appears to be a pretty good one. While O-line injuries happen and frankly should be expected, losing both tackles for long periods of time is pretty rare. We also know that Yanda can play RT well enough to not destroy our offense, so there's that.

 

I suspect this draft will be about secondary, RB, pass catchers, and defensive line.

[757RavensFan]

How does Rice's contract affect the 2015 cap?

[Ravenseconbeast]

Like what someone has said, flacco needs to restructure. For ngata, its only if we can get a fair offer

[Ravenseconbeast]

Webb also needs to cut his salary. He isn't even a strong #2 anymore.

[Ravens1991]

Thanks! 

 

 

How would you grade our overall cap situation. With an A being good and F being really bad.

[redlobster]

How does Rice's contract affect the 2015 cap?

 

He counts $9.5 million in dead money against the cap

[redlobster]

Like what someone has said, flacco needs to restructure. For ngata, its only if we can get a fair offer

 

Flacco isn't doing anything this year, his contract might be revisited next year.

[B-more Ravor]

How would you grade our overall cap situation. With an A being good and F being really bad.

 

 

Hmm, probably a C to C-.  It's not like that can't make moves to get under the Cap, but from there - unless they make a lot of unexpected moves (like 2011 when they cut Mason, Heap, Gregg and McGahee) - there isn't likely to be a lot of Cap space to do a whole lot else.

 

They're going to get Cap space from Ngata, one way or another.  A lot IMO depends on getting extensions done with Yanda and Koch to lessen their numbers.  Obviously, if they can get Webb to take a paycut, that will ease things too.  A long term deal with Jimmy Smith will also ease things, but that's going to be a bit more difficult IMO.

 

So, there are a lot of moving parts that could provide them with anywhere from just some Cap relief, up to a lot of Cap relief.

 

As a baseline, I think they'll likely have enough Cap space to re-sign Forsett, re-sign Torrey (or another FA on that level) and then go bargain basement shopping.  From there, it depends on what else they decide to do - and how far they want to go - to create more Cap space to do other things.

[Ravens1991]

Thank you.


In general how much $ do you think McPhee will ask compared to what Torrey will ask for

[balfan23]

He counts $9.5 million in dead money against the cap

... and hopefully that is all he counts against our cap. He still has this grievance against us that is pending and it could do further damage. 

 

http://russellstreetreport.com/2015/01/14/baltimore-ravens-salary-cap/rice-grievance-may-hurt-ravens-2015/

 

If he wins, knock another 3.5M off our our cap ... if that happens, we can thank Ray for another Raven having to walk because we will now have 13M tied up into Rice's specter that continues to haunt the team. 

 

A decision may not be reached for weeks ... so we will have this looming over us for some time and could affect how we are able to do business. 

[redlobster]

... and hopefully that is all he counts against our cap. He still has this grievance against us that is pending and it could do further damage. 

 

http://russellstreetreport.com/2015/01/14/baltimore-ravens-salary-cap/rice-grievance-may-hurt-ravens-2015/

 

If he wins, knock another 3.5M off our our cap ... if that happens, we can thank Ray for another Raven having to walk because we will now have 13M tied up into Rice's specter that continues to haunt the team. 

 

A decision may not be reached for weeks ... so we will have this looming over us for some time and could affect how we are able to do business. 

 

Correct, I forgot to mention that. Although personally I think he loses the grievance against Baltimore, while he might have a good leg to stand on vs the NFL.

[GrimCoconut]

Hmm, probably a C to C-. It's not like that can't make moves to get under the Cap, but from there - unless they make a lot of unexpected moves (like 2011 when they cut Mason, Heap, Gregg and McGahee) - there isn't likely to be a lot of Cap space to do a whole lot else.

They're going to get Cap space from Ngata, one way or another. A lot IMO depends on getting extensions done with Yanda and Koch to lessen their numbers. Obviously, if they can get Webb to take a paycut, that will ease things too. A long term deal with Jimmy Smith will also ease things, but that's going to be a bit more difficult IMO.

So, there are a lot of moving parts that could provide them with anywhere from just some Cap relief, up to a lot of Cap relief.

As a baseline, I think they'll likely have enough Cap space to re-sign Forsett, re-sign Torrey (or another FA on that level) and then go bargain basement shopping. From there, it depends on what else they decide to do - and how far they want to go - to create more Cap space to do other things.

What do you think is the most likely course of action? I personally predict we'll extend Tucker over tendering him to reduce his overall cap space for this year. I also see us extending or moving Ngata (trade or cut) to save cap, with Albert McClellan and Canty cut or retired in Chris' case. I don't see us extending Jimmy unless we get a really really good deal, which I see as unlikely. I also don't think we'll extend Hill yet and let him play out a second round tender.

On the subject of Koch, I don't think we'll extend him and I doubt we'll cut him. I think he'll be in a Billy Cundiff situation where we'll bring someone to compete but not commit unless Koch just outright loses the job. On the subject of Jacoby Jones, I think he's gone in final cuts but I see him sticking around and eventually losing the job and roster spot.

I'm hoping we extend Yanda, but I'm concerned considering that we have KO coming due soon and may want to pay him. We also have Urschel, who has looked pretty good at RG. I'd prefer we extend Yanda, just mixed on it's likelihood.

[B-more Ravor]

What do you think is the most likely course of action? I personally predict we'll extend Tucker over tendering him to reduce his overall cap space for this year. I also see us extending or moving Ngata (trade or cut) to save cap, with Albert McClellan and Canty cut or retired in Chris' case. I don't see us extending Jimmy unless we get a really really good deal, which I see as unlikely. I also don't think we'll extend Hill yet and let him play out a second round tender.

On the subject of Koch, I don't think we'll extend him and I doubt we'll cut him. I think he'll be in a Billy Cundiff situation where we'll bring someone to compete but not commit unless Koch just outright loses the job. On the subject of Jacoby Jones, I think he's gone in final cuts but I see him sticking around and eventually losing the job and roster spot.

I'm hoping we extend Yanda, but I'm concerned considering that we have KO coming due soon and may want to pay him. We also have Urschel, who has looked pretty good at RG. I'd prefer we extend Yanda, just mixed on it's likelihood.

 

My thinking is pretty much in line with that, although I do think they will extend Koch.  Punters can kick forever and he's more than solid.  Obviously, it all depends on finding an agreeable price.

 

I am though leaning more and more toward a forced paycut for Webb (who is has been one of my favorite Ravens over the years) and if he won't accept, then making him a post-June 1 release.  They can spend to the Cap until then, and then use that money for draft picks and to carry into the season.

[GrimCoconut]

My thinking is pretty much in line with that, although I do think they will extend Koch. Punters can kick forever and he's more than solid. Obviously, it all depends on finding an agreeable price.

I am though leaning more and more toward a forced paycut for Webb (who is has been one of my favorite Ravens over the years) and if he won't accept, then making him a post-June 1 release. They can spend to the Cap until then, and then use that money for draft picks and to carry into the season.

Nice and thanks for that perspective. I hadn't considered they would cut Webb for cap savings but if they spend to the cap until June 1st it makes sense. I can see that one.

[redlobster]

So whats the news on the Ray Rice Grievance? 

 

According to Profootball talk the hearing was supposed to be today, then they published a separate article stating :

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/15/ray-rice-grievance-settles/

 

On Thursday, a hearing was scheduled to commence between the Ravens and running back Ray Rice regarding whether the team owes him more than $3.5 million for cutting him hours after the notorious in-elevator video surfaced on September 8.

Per a league source with knowledge of the situation, Rice’s grievance against the Ravens has settled.  It happened, according to the source, several days ago.  Which renders entirely moot a lengthy article published last night by the Baltimore Sun regarding the looming grievance hearing.  (And which also renders moot the lengthy analysis of the grievance hearing posted here within the last hour based on the article in the Sun.)

The term “settled” implies money changed hands.  Chances are that the amount will not be disclosed publicly, which is common when money changes hands to put to rest a legal claim.

So that ends the relationship between Rice and the Ravens.  The real question is whether anyone else will give Rice a job.

 

It looks like money changed hands, hopefully nothing will be against the cap.

[B-more Ravor]

Rice's grievance already counted $1.411M against the Cap in 2014.  If the settlement is for more than that amount, the excess will count as a negative adjustment against the 2015 Cap (meaning less Cap space).  If the Settlement amount is less than the $1.411M, then the Ravens get a credit against the 2015 Cap (meaning more Cap space).

[billick]

The Ravens are in a huge bind with Webb. I would still cut him and Ngata.

 

Maybe they would re sign for less.

 

We don't need either one.

[billick]

So whats the news on the Ray Rice Grievance? 

 

The term “settled” implies money changed hands.  Chances are that the amount will not be disclosed publicly, which is common when money changes hands to put to rest a legal claim.

 

If it effects the cap, the amount will be disclosed.

[52liveforever]

webb isn't going to restructure. it isn't in his best interest to do so. after this year he's going to have a hard time getting another big pay day b.c with his injury past his career isn't going to be the longest. cant be mad at him b.c as soon as the ravens can they will cut him to save money saying "its a business" so he should certainly have the same mindset

[B-more Ravor]

webb isn't going to restructure. it isn't in his best interest to do so. after this year he's going to have a hard time getting another big pay day b.c with his injury past his career isn't going to be the longest. cant be mad at him b.c as soon as the ravens can they will cut him to save money saying "its a business" so he should certainly have the same mindset

 

Well, I certainly agree that he may not be willing to accept a paycut, but as you said he's going to have a hard time getting another big pay day, so a paycut (with incentives to allow him to recoup some/all of that money) may still be in his best interests.  He may still make more here than if he's got to find a job elsewhere.  It also gives him another year to hopefully prove he can stay healthy to either earn another year here or prove to other teams that he deserves a decent new deal.

[B-more Ravor]

If it effects the cap, the amount will be disclosed.

 

Yes and no.  It will be known to teams since they can get that info, but publicly, it's just going to be lumped into a column of "adjustments", some of which will be known (Dumvervil's, Steve Smith's and Daryl Smith's incentives), but many of which are never disclosed or explained.  So, there's a number in the adjustments column, but just how much of that is for Rice may be hard to ascertain.

[Larryterri]

So tired of this year after year. How refreshing would it be to see this team stay intact for a 2 year run. Year after year, the NFL cannibalizes our coaching staff, and we can never afford to keep anybody, let alone acquire top talent.

[rmcjacket23]

So tired of this year after year. How refreshing would it be to see this team stay intact for a 2 year run. Year after year, the NFL cannibalizes our coaching staff, and we can never afford to keep anybody, let alone acquire top talent.

Basically, the single best problem to have in the NFL today...

[PurpleCity5]

IMO, we can't lose both Ngata and McPhee, if we lose Ngata, then I'd say we should extend McPhee. 

[balfan23]

webb isn't going to restructure. it isn't in his best interest to do so. after this year he's going to have a hard time getting another big pay day b.c with his injury past his career isn't going to be the longest. cant be mad at him b.c as soon as the ravens can they will cut him to save money saying "its a business" so he should certainly have the same mindset

I agree - much like Ngata had no incentive last year, Webb has no incentive this year. The only leverage a team has is when they are in a position where out-right cutting a guy will save them significant $. The player then knows that they can either restructure or get dumped. As long as the restructure is in line with what they think they could get on the open market after being dumped, they'll be compelled to take it. 

 

Webb isn't there now ... but unless his performance this year is up to the top tier CB level of play we paid for, he'll either be restructured or gone. 

[PurpleCity5]

What do you think is the most likely course of action? I personally predict we'll extend Tucker over tendering him to reduce his overall cap space for this year. I also see us extending or moving Ngata (trade or cut) to save cap, with Albert McClellan and Canty cut or retired in Chris' case. I don't see us extending Jimmy unless we get a really really good deal, which I see as unlikely. I also don't think we'll extend Hill yet and let him play out a second round tender.

On the subject of Koch, I don't think we'll extend him and I doubt we'll cut him. I think he'll be in a Billy Cundiff situation where we'll bring someone to compete but not commit unless Koch just outright loses the job. On the subject of Jacoby Jones, I think he's gone in final cuts but I see him sticking around and eventually losing the job and roster spot.

I'm hoping we extend Yanda, but I'm concerned considering that we have KO coming due soon and may want to pay him. We also have Urschel, who has looked pretty good at RG. I'd prefer we extend Yanda, just mixed on it's likelihood.

I think they'd prefer to extend K.O. He's young and Urschel looks really good at guard. Unless Urschel wins the starting center job, which is very possible, (I'm a huge fan of his now, especially after the New England game), Zuttah kind struggled towards the end of the season and Urschel has just looked awesome. I think we can extend K.O now and Yanda on a friendly deal on a team friendly deal, but honestly, I'm concerned about K.O's durability. Urschel has caught the eye of the staff and he will get his chance no doubt. I feel that if he does makes strides at Center and if Eugene can bounce back, our O-Line could be as good as Dallas. 

 

IMO, Extend Ngata>Extend Torrey>Extend K.O