Cap 2015 - Reality vs. Fantasy

[ravensnick]

Looking at spotrac, if Webb only carries $2M in savings, I think he'll be here next year. Though 2016 may be the year he's gone. In 2015, Webb carries a $12M cap hit and $10M in dead money. In 2016, Webb again carries a $12M cap hit but only $4M in dead money meaning $8M in savings. Getting an extension done with Jimmy Smith would also be helpful considering he's on the option year which carries a $6M price tag.

 

Yanda's contract expires after 2016 and carries a $8M cap hit in 2016 so an extension with him would be good and keeps him a Raven for life. Ngata definitley needs an extension, $16M cap hit in 2015 and 2016, can't afford that. Especially with Flacco's cap hit going up to $28M in 2016. 

 

We'll have to do some trickery but I think overall it's not as bad as I thought it would be.

I agree, we likely cut Webb to pay for yanda and/or jimmy. ngata has to be restructure or cut, we can't live like that. Flacco's deal was really "three years and restructure", so don't worry about that. 

[rmw10]

No way is webb worth 12million next season !

 

The question isn't whether or not he's worth $12M.  It's the question of whether or not he's worth $2M.  He counts $10M regardless.

[Tiz]

No way is webb worth 12million next season

Cut list:

Jacoby

Canty

Koch

Restructure:

Ngata

Webb

Pitta

I know he's "just a punter" by why not restructure Koch? Why cut him?

Agree on jacoby and canty.

[rmw10]

I know he's "just a punter" by why not restructure Koch? Why cut him?

Agree on jacoby and canty.

 

I'm down for extending Koch.  He was one of the best punters in the league this year.

[H8R]

I know he's "just a punter" by why not restructure Koch? Why cut him?

Agree on jacoby and canty.

You said it... He's just a punter , and IMO... Not worth half of that figure.

[rmcjacket23]

No way is webb worth 12million next season

Cut list:

Jacoby

Canty

Koch

Restructure:

Ngata

Webb

Pitta

1. We are really talking about an extension for a guy like Ngata, not a restructure.

 

2. Guys like Webb and especially Pitta have absolutely no incentive to restructure anything. Webb is a slight possibility, because the Ravens could save $2M against the cap by cutting him, but he's easily worth $2M in additional cap space for mere depth alone, and he knows that. Generally, when you ask a player to take a paycut, there has to be a threat of release if he doesn't, which in this case is debatable.

 

3. Ravens basically can't touch Pitta's contract. He has zero incentive to restructure anything, because he just signed the deal. Cutting him isn't an option either, and he knows that.

[H8R]

1. We are really talking about an extension for a guy like Ngata, not a restructure.

2. Guys like Webb and especially Pitta have absolutely no incentive to restructure anything. Webb is a slight possibility, because the Ravens could save $2M against the cap by cutting him, but he's easily worth $2M in additional cap space for mere depth alone, and he knows that. Generally, when you ask a player to take a paycut, there has to be a threat of release if he doesn't, which in this case is debatable.

3. Ravens basically can't touch Pitta's contract. He has zero incentive to restructure anything, because he just signed the deal. Cutting him isn't an option either, and he knows that.

1. yes, Ngata is an extension of release

2/3. No incentive except him being a broken hip TE , and the team showed faith in him that he could stay healthy. Webb owes us money, IMO. Lol. Not that it works like that... I could see Webb hanging it up in 2-3years.

[rmcjacket23]

1. yes, Ngata is an extension of release

2/3. No incentive except him being a broken hip TE , and the team showed faith in him that he could stay healthy. Webb owes us money, IMO. Lol. Not that it works like that... I could see Webb hanging it up in 2-3years.

Right, but this is a business. Pretty rare you find guys just giving up money just to be nice. Most of the guys taking paycuts in this league are doing it because they know they'd have trouble finding that kind of money elsewhere.

 

The problem with some of the guys we'd like to take paycuts is that they have all the leverage against us.

[ravensnick]

I keep seeing people saying Webb needs to restructure but we really have no course of action against him.  That $10M is stuck.  We can only alter that $2M base salary.  We'd only be able to save around $1-1.3M and that would be a straight pay cut.  A true restructure would save us probably $400K or so.

He's all but gone after 2015 with his cap rate and savings in 2016. restructure/pay cut in 2015, cut in 2016. 

[H8R]

Right, but this is a business. Pretty rare you find guys just giving up money just to be nice. Most of the guys taking paycuts in this league are doing it because they know they'd have trouble finding that kind of money elsewhere.

The problem with some of the guys we'd like to take paycuts is that they have all the leverage against us.

I agree. what are we taking into next season, a 5-6million of unused cap?

[rmcjacket23]

I keep seeing people saying Webb needs to restructure but we really have no course of action against him.  That $10M is stuck.  We can only alter that $2M base salary.  We'd only be able to save around $1-1.3M and that would be a straight pay cut.  A true restructure would save us probably $400K or so.

His base salary is $8M actually, which isn't guaranteed. He costs $10M against the cap regardless because we have $10M in pro-rated bonuses that we still haven't recognized.

 

I don't expect any restructuring/pay cut to occur. I expect him to get released or to play as is. I think you'd have a better shot at getting cap savings by either releasing/extending Ngata and/or extending Yanda.

[rmw10]

His base salary is $8M actually, which isn't guaranteed. He costs $10M against the cap regardless because we have $10M in pro-rated bonuses that we still haven't recognized.

 

I don't expect any restructuring/pay cut to occur. I expect him to get released or to play as is. I think you'd have a better shot at getting cap savings by either releasing/extending Ngata and/or extending Yanda.

 

Yeah you're right ignore all of that lol.  I'm trying to juggle so many things and I keep getting confused.

[rmcjacket23]

I agree. what are we taking into next season, a 5-6million of unused cap?

About $6M I believe. We have $136.7M in cap space currently allotted to 41 players, includes the dead money for Rice and others.

 

Knock off the $6M in cap space, and you're down in the 130 range.

 

Hard to gauge what the salary cap will be, but $140M is probably a decent estimate.

[52520Andrew]

I don't think we do much, Forsett, maybe Torrey or a mid teir WR, hopefully a mid tier CB, and that's about it besides rookies and tendering our RFA/ERFAs. McPhee is gone more likely than not

[rmw10]

I don't think we do much, Forsett, maybe Torrey or a mid teir WR, hopefully a mid tier CB, and that's about it besides rookies and tendering our RFA/ERFAs. McPhee is gone more likely than not

 

Looking at the UFAs only, I'd say there's a good chance that we'll bring back or make a strong effort to retain Morgan Cox, Owen Daniels, Justin Forsett, and Jeromy Miles.  I'm 50/50 on Torrey.  Darian Stewart, Danny Gorrer, and Antoine Cason are all probably wait and see types.  Other then that, I see everyone else walking.

 

For guys that aren't currently on the team, I could see us looking at a backup QB, a cheap RB (depending on Forsett), WR (depending on Torrey), TE (depending on Daniels), a cheap vet DL, and a mid tier CB.

[Sami84]

Please use overthecap.com , its a much better site than sportrac .

Ngata gone

Canty gone

Koch gone

Jacoby gone

Those 4 equal about $14.6 million in savings , which puts them at about $121 million. I'd also extend yanda to lower his cap number and make the ravens at about $118 after yanda extension.

So that would be about $22 million in cap space and then take about $6.5-7 million for the draft class, which leaves about $15 million left for tenders and free agents.

Seems pretty limiting..

[BMORE_96]

No, we don't. Ngata is a great player, still a great lineman. However, the Ravens have plenty of starters available for the d-line. It's one of the few places where the Ravens are actually stacked at. I wouldn't object to cutting or trading him for extra money. Same for Canty.

 

There is no telling with Ozzie. Countless times he has broken our hearts and let our heros go. There are very few I can honestly say are sure to stay.

Its a white knuckle ride.

does not mean he was wrong to do so. after the 2011 purge, he got us to the afc championship and then a superbowl. 

 

after the 2013 purge(following a superbowl), we should've made the super bowl with our training camp roster and almost made the AFC championship with our injury-riddled roster. i trust his decision making. whether that means cutting ngata,koch,canty,

[balfan23]

Please use overthecap.com , its a much better site than sportrac .

Thanks - just checked out

 

http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/baltimore-ravens

 

and I agree, it is a better resource. 

[rmw10]

Thanks - just checked out

 

http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/baltimore-ravens

 

and I agree, it is a better resource. 

 

OTC is a much better resource.  They update pretty much immediately.  Spotrac finally updated Webb's restructure from before the season the other day.

[balfan23]

Ngata is the key, does his production trump the $8.5 mill we save by cutting him - thats the question

 

If it were me I'd be talking to him right now saying, "its up to you, restructure or get cut/traded," we all love the big man but alot can be done with that much savings. I trust Ozzies decision whatever it may be. It's undeniable that he'd be a big loss but Jernigan played really well in his spot when Ngata was out

I have to think that is going to be the approach. The question is going to be, can we align expectations between team and player/agent on what he's worth and for how long. It worked for Suggs, I hope it works for Ngata. 

[balfan23]

His (Webb's) base salary is $8M actually, which isn't guaranteed. He costs $10M against the cap regardless because we have $10M in pro-rated bonuses that we still haven't recognized.

 

I don't expect any restructuring/pay cut to occur. I expect him to get released or to play as is. I think you'd have a better shot at getting cap savings by either releasing/extending Ngata and/or extending Yanda.

While most don't think Webb is worth what he's getting, given his contract I think he's going to be next year's problem. I too don't think we'll cut him because 1) 2M isn't a big enough savings and 2) our current depth at his position is abysmal. 

 

I also agree that we'll not likely restructure his deal 1) because Ozzie says he doesn't generally restructure contracts and 2) I think they are going to want to wait and see how he plays next year and if he still shows the same signs of limitations as he did this year, they will not be interested in retaining him.

[GrimCoconut]

I find it interesting that Gino Gradkowski has earned extra money. He'll apparently cost in excess of 1M this year at an estimated 1.56M due to an escalator per Brian McFarland. 

http://russellstreetreport.com/2015/01/09/baltimore-ravens-salary-cap/gino-gradkowski-cashes/

 

Personally, if that's the case, I'd cut him next year without much hesitation. I see no reason to pay him that much money to be a back-up player. 

 

Also, I'm feeling more and more like the end of Ngata's tenure here in Baltimore looms ahead of us. I know he played well this year. I know he got busted for the PED. I also understand he offers a lot to the DL. It's just a hunch I have that he will be gone. 

[K-Dog]

does not mean he was wrong to do so. after the 2011 purge, he got us to the afc championship and then a superbowl. 

 

after the 2013 purge(following a superbowl), we should've made the super bowl with our training camp roster and almost made the AFC championship with our injury-riddled roster. i trust his decision making. whether that means cutting ngata,koch,canty,

Oh I agree completely.

Ozzie is WAY better at this than I am.   I remember loosing Heap, Masen and MeGehee my self and other fans were devastated.  But that is beside the point.  Ozzie waits for no one.

I learned a lot from that.   I dont want to see Webb, or Jacoby, or Koch or Ngata go but if they do.....*shrugs*  it is what it is.  Ozzie knows more than I do.

 

That said I am running thin on currently active player jerseys so I am hoping at least Webb, Suggs or Torrey stay.  If all three go I gotta go shopping

[rmw10]

I find it interesting that Gino Gradkowski has earned extra money. He'll apparently cost in excess of 1M this year at an estimated 1.56M due to an escalator per Brian McFarland. 

http://russellstreetreport.com/2015/01/09/baltimore-ravens-salary-cap/gino-gradkowski-cashes/

 

Personally, if that's the case, I'd cut him next year without much hesitation. I see no reason to pay him that much money to be a back-up player. 

 

Also, I'm feeling more and more like the end of Ngata's tenure here in Baltimore looms ahead of us. I know he played well this year. I know he got busted for the PED. I also understand he offers a lot to the DL. It's just a hunch I have that he will be gone. 

 

Yeah I'd probably just go ahead and cut him whenever that kicks in.  I'd much rather have Urschel and/or Jensen as the backup(s).

[balfan23]

I find it interesting that Gino Gradkowski has earned extra money. He'll apparently cost in excess of 1M this year at an estimated 1.56M due to an escalator per Brian McFarland. 

http://russellstreetreport.com/2015/01/09/baltimore-ravens-salary-cap/gino-gradkowski-cashes/

 

Personally, if that's the case, I'd cut him next year without much hesitation. I see no reason to pay him that much money to be a back-up player. 

 

Also, I'm feeling more and more like the end of Ngata's tenure here in Baltimore looms ahead of us. I know he played well this year. I know he got busted for the PED. I also understand he offers a lot to the DL. It's just a hunch I have that he will be gone. 

I basically believe that this escalator Brian describes is Gino's death knell. 

 

Just more unintended consequences of the elements of the CBA. 

[balfan23]

I'd expect one or two post-June 1 designations to be made, where the difference in gain will be of some significance. Of course, the benefit of this move is limited, because the savings don't kick in until quality FAs have already been signed. But getting a couple extra mil out of that move could be worth it, as that money can still be used to sign some rookies to contracts and pick up some cuts later in the FA period. 

 

The savings difference for Webb is huge (8M saved rather than 2M), but it is too big for us to leverage and, besides, while I know folks are wild about him now, he's still clearly a starter on this team given who else we have on the roster and I just don't think we can leave ourselves thin at that position another year. 

 

Where I think this could come into play is that Jacoby will be a difference of 2.5M vs. .75M. We may wait to let him go. Also, the same exact difference exists for D. Smith, however, Smith may be safe if we have no faith in A. Brown to fill that spot (which, given he was inactive the entire year doesn't give me a sense we think he's ready). 

[ccflraven]

wow are only options to free up money by cutting players are ngata, koch. canty and yanda and i don't see yanda getting cut nor do i want him to. 

[balfan23]

Next, the Ravens desperately need to do something with Lardarius Webb, if anything can be done. Is restructuring his contract even possible? Didn't Baltimore already restructure his contract, once, back in August? The Ravens would only save $2 million (with $8 million in dead money) if Webb is released; so, that's highly unlikely.

Yes, we did restructure his contract once, but it was a very minor tweak to free a little bit of money late in the season. The kind of restructure that would make a difference is something Ozzie has stated he doesn't like to do. Another issue is, I feel like when you restructure a guy's contract, it is someone that you feel certain you want to keep around, because you often will end up paying more in guaranteed money and will take a harsher cap hit later if you ultimately wish to release him. 

[Fear_the_Raven]

I think not bringing Ngata back would be a mistake. He's still a leader on the defense and we've been bitten by that before letting go of depth too early.

I also felt like, even though Jernigan played well in Ngata's absence, that the run defense took a pretty big hit without Ngata in there.

[redlobster]

Crap I accidently deleted my post, here it is again:

Please use overthecap.com , its a much better site than sportrac .

Ngata gone

Canty gone

Koch gone

Jacoby gone

Those 4 equal about $14.6 million in savings , which puts them at about $121 million. I'd also extend yanda to lower his cap number and make the ravens at about $118 after yanda extension.

So that would be about $22 million in cap space and then take about $6.5-7 million for the draft class, which leaves about $15 million left for tenders and free agents.

It actually looks like I missed some $$

With the cap expected to be $141 million which would leave Baltimore with about $23 million + $5.7 million being rolled over from 2014 to 2015. So about $29 million before the draft picks take $6.5-7 million and about $22 million for free agents and tenders.