Merged: Brandon Marshall reportedly being traded to the Jets

[The Raven]

I'll, once again, pass on Marshall. 

[RayRocks]

Under $8/mil per for a potential real #1 WR is probably worth it... The issue becomes, Torrey might be asking for close to the same amount of money.

 

We know what Torrey is, a good number 2, a deep threat that opens up the offense, and at the moment, our best RedZone target at 26 years old.

 

Brandon had a down year with injuries, and yet he still did better than Torrey in almost every category (except for TDs) with a worse QB situation.  Brandon also is going to be 31 in a few weeks, and we may only get 2 good years out of him.

 

I wonder if Chicago would really cut him or not, but I'd probably take Brandon on a 4 year $28 million dollar deal, as Torrey will probably receive about 5 years and $45 million.  Other than that, I don't think I'd offer more than a 4th for Brandon on his current deal.

[lgcs27288]

I hope they cut him. The more wr free agents on the market, the cheaper we can get Torrey.

[jazz1988]

Under $8/mil per for a potential real #1 WR is probably worth it... The issue becomes, Torrey might be asking for close to the same amount of money.

 

We know what Torrey is, a good number 2, a deep threat that opens up the offense, and at the moment, our best RedZone target at 26 years old.

 

Brandon had a down year with injuries, and yet he still did better than Torrey in almost every category (except for TDs) with a worse QB situation.  Brandon also is going to be 31 in a few weeks, and we may only get 2 good years out of him.

 

I wonder if Chicago would really cut him or not, but I'd probably take Brandon on a 4 year $28 million dollar deal, as Torrey will probably receive about 5 years and $45 million.  Other than that, I don't think I'd offer more than a 4th for Brandon on his current deal.

 

The more solid veteran receivers like  Johnson,Marshall, Bowe hit the free agent market then the more it drops Torrey Smith market value in my opinion.

[sflegend89]

On paper it may seem like a homerun but my gut it telling me it wouldn't materialize into a massive success the way a lot of fans seem to. I think Marshall can easily become a distraction and I do question his maturity/composure. The guy has a tendency to tone down his effort when he's not getting touches early in games. The good news is Trestman knows more than anyone what we would be getting and how he would fit with the Ravens and I'm sure he would make a strong push for Marshall if he thought it would be a homerun. I just don't see that happening because I don't think Trestman was thrilled with some of Marshall's antics while he was coaching him, too bad Alshon isn't available instead.

 

I think we look elsewhere for wr help

[sflegend89]

The more solid veteran receivers like  Johnson,Marshall, Bowe hit the free agent market then the more it drops Torrey Smith market value in my opinion.

 

Agreed. When a FA class is weak at a certain position you tend to see average players get huge contracts because the demand is high and the supply is low. The more quality wr's that hit the market the less teams are going to be willing to over pay torrey out of desperation.

[Kid87]

Wow so is Torrey Cheaper than BMarsh ???? I think  BMarsh is a better all around player

[redrum52]

Wow so is Torrey Cheaper than BMarsh ???? I think BMarsh is a better all around player

That's how it seems, but we don't know what the cap hits would've been for the Torrey deal.

[TuckerTime9]

What do you guys think of a trade like Haloti Ngata for Brandon Marshall?

[D-Rey]

What do you guys think of a trade like Haloti Ngata for Brandon Marshall?

A bears fan and I was discussing this. It makes sense. They need a NT for their new defense. It would allow us to afford him. Ngata for Marshall, get it done Ozzie!

[TuckerTime9]

A bears fan and I was discussing this. It makes sense. They need a NT for their new defense. It would allow us to afford him. Ngata for Marshall, get it done Ozzie!

It just seems to make a ton of sense to me, both sides aren't looking to keep either player around and have a need of the other. Please Ozzie! Work your magic!

[January J]

I'm sure oz has thought out every possible avenue thoroughly, if there's a scenario where that could happen he's already thought about it, including what would come from it years from now. We all just need to relax and leave it in the hands of the master. If there's a viable deal on the table oz will not hesitate to pull the trigger. Not like most of you don't already know this.

[D-Rey]

I'm sure oz has thought out every possible avenue thoroughly, if there's a scenario where that could happen he's already thought about it, including what would come from it years from now. We all just need to relax and leave it in the hands of the master. If there's a viable deal on the table oz will not hesitate to pull the trigger. Not like most of you don't already know this.

True but it's fun to discuss and speculate, that's what these forums are for lol.

[arnie_uk]

Even if we done that trade I'd still want Marshall's deal re done

[D-Rey]

Even if we done that trade I'd still want Marshall's deal re done

I would to, but at least it would give us an opportunity to do that.

[GrimCoconut]

I don't know how I feel about trading Ngata for Marshall.

[ravensnick]

I don't know how I feel about trading Ngata for Marshall.

It depends really. We need a WR more than a DT and Marshall's hit would be less than Ngata's. Marshall would also be familiar with trestman's offense. That being said, Ngata is a guy I want to see retire a Raven and Marshall is considered to be a bit of a locker room cancer. I could make a case for either side, but I want to keep Ngata. 

[Pirate88]

Marshall will be more salary cap friendly signed to a new deal after the bears release him. Ravens style WR, he is a game changer but not quite enough reputation to cost $16mil/yr

[PurpleCity5]

Here's my thing. 

 

It would be a mistake to rely on the draft to fix our problems at WR. Whether you like Torrey or not, him leaving would be a significant downgrade to our receiving corps. We've been relying on the next man up mentality too much and seen it fail too many times to rely on that idea, though I'm a fan of Camp and Aiken, I don't know if they can carry the load yet. Even if Torrey leaves, Marshall would be a significant upgrade regardless of his age. 

 

Relying on the Draft is a bad idea because quiet honestly, we don't know what will happen, it's pretty unpredictable and too risky. 

 

I'm sold on the idea of getting Marshall, It would allow us to go into the draft with less holes which is what Oz really likes. I don't know if we have to trade Ngata, though we don't have the cap for Brandon as of now. If we do cut Ngata, I wouldn't mind going with Marshall, especially if we extend Yanda. 

[rmcjacket23]

Here's my thing. 

 

It would be a mistake to rely on the draft to fix our problems at WR. Whether you like Torrey or not, him leaving would be a significant downgrade to our receiving corps. We've been relying on the next man up mentality too much and seen it fail too many times to rely on that idea, though I'm a fan of Camp and Aiken, I don't know if they can carry the load yet. Even if Torrey leaves, Marshall would be a significant upgrade regardless of his age. 

 

Relying on the Draft is a bad idea because quiet honestly, we don't know what will happen, it's pretty unpredictable and too risky. 

 

I'm sold on the idea of getting Marshall, It would allow us to go into the draft with less holes which is what Oz really likes. I don't know if we have to trade Ngata, though we don't have the cap for Brandon as of now. If we do cut Ngata, I wouldn't mind going with Marshall, especially if we extend Yanda. 

But again, that's IF the Bears decide to cut Marshall.

 

I think far too many fans are talking about him as if he's a FA we can bid on. He's not.

[Alaska Alaska!]

Here's my thing. 

 

It would be a mistake to rely on the draft to fix our problems at WR. Whether you like Torrey or not, him leaving would be a significant downgrade to our receiving corps. We've been relying on the next man up mentality too much and seen it fail too many times to rely on that idea, though I'm a fan of Camp and Aiken, I don't know if they can carry the load yet. Even if Torrey leaves, Marshall would be a significant upgrade regardless of his age. 

 

Relying on the Draft is a bad idea because quiet honestly, we don't know what will happen, it's pretty unpredictable and too risky. 

 

I'm sold on the idea of getting Marshall, It would allow us to go into the draft with less holes which is what Oz really likes. I don't know if we have to trade Ngata, though we don't have the cap for Brandon as of now. If we do cut Ngata, I wouldn't mind going with Marshall, especially if we extend Yanda. 

My thoughts exactly!  I hate how people believe that the Draft is this "Holy Grail" that has such great talent that we can start considering our proven vets as dispensable.  We have a good thing with Torrey.  We really do.  Fans are just ungrateful because he can't do everything that they want him to do. 

[allblackraven]

I don't know how I feel about trading Ngata for Marshall.

 

Player for player kind of makes sense for both teams. What doesn't make sense is that the whole issue for both are huge cap hits. We'll just be exchanging expensive guys to try to negotiate extensions.

[PurpleCity5]

But again, that's IF the Bears decide to cut Marshall.

 

I think far too many fans are talking about him as if he's a FA we can bid on. He's not.

I think the Bears are entering the phase of no return. I think Fox is trying to clean up the locker room and install a different mentality. That Bears team had a lot of drama and Fox wants to rid of all of it. I don't think Fox dislikes Marshall, I actually think this is something from the Bears players. 

 

I agree, we shouldn't get carried away but from where things are going, I think he'll be headed to Free Agency. 

[rmcjacket23]

My thoughts exactly!  I hate how people believe that the Draft is this "Holy Grail" that has such great talent that we can start considering our proven vets as dispensable.  We have a good thing with Torrey.  We really do.  Fans are just ungrateful because he can't do everything that they want him to do. 

Yes, but I think you're missing the point.

 

In an era where you basically have to pay good QBs a ton of money, you don't have the luxury of paying for expensive FAs at every position. We have a corner taking up significant cap space, we have pass rushers taking up significant cap space, and we have a defensive lineman taking up significant cap space. We also obviously have a QB taking up significant cap space.

 

The most beneficial aspect of drafting players is that for a minimum of 4 seasons, you get a highly productive player at a discounted cap figure.

 

The ROI on a guy like AJ Green or Julio Jones right now is astronomical, because they produce like elite players on non-elite contracts. The ROI on a Calvin Johnson right now isn't nearly as good, because while he produces like an elite player, he's also paid like an elite player.

 

WR, in particular, is generally a higher-paid position, which is all the more reason to get maximum value out of those players when their price is low. If all you do is pay market value for these players, you simply find that you end up letting other players that may be more valuable or harder to replace go.

 

For me, a poor track record of drafting and developing WRs isn't justification for giving up on it. I'm all for re-signing Torrey as well, but I'm not just matching all offers for him. Like basically every player in this league who isn't a QB, there is a price that I'd be willing to pay for every player, and it isn't whatever they want or whatever somebody else is willing to give them.

[rmcjacket23]

I think the Bears are entering the phase of no return. I think Fox is trying to clean up the locker room and install a different mentality. That Bears team had a lot of drama and Fox wants to rid of all of it. I don't think Fox dislikes Marshall, I actually think this is something from the Bears players. 

 

I agree, we shouldn't get carried away but from where things are going, I think he'll be headed to Free Agency. 

I don't, because I think he's tied to Cutler. I think they both have one season in Chicago to show their value, and if it doesn't go well, both will be gone this time next season.

 

Unless Fox has already determined he doesn't want Cutler, and is "setting him up to fail", it doesn't really do the Bears any good to move Marshall right now unless its by trade in my opinion. Its not like they are a player or two away from being a great team, and his cap savings isn't significant enough.

[Alaska Alaska!]

Yes, but I think you're missing the point.

 

In an era where you basically have to pay good QBs a ton of money, you don't have the luxury of paying for expensive FAs at every position. We have a corner taking up significant cap space, we have pass rushers taking up significant cap space, and we have a defensive lineman taking up significant cap space. We also obviously have a QB taking up significant cap space.

 

The most beneficial aspect of drafting players is that for a minimum of 4 seasons, you get a highly productive player at a discounted cap figure.

 

The ROI on a guy like AJ Green or Julio Jones right now is astronomical, because they produce like elite players on non-elite contracts. The ROI on a Calvin Johnson right now isn't nearly as good, because while he produces like an elite player, he's also paid like an elite player.

 

WR, in particular, is generally a higher-paid position, which is all the more reason to get maximum value out of those players when their price is low. If all you do is pay market value for these players, you simply find that you end up letting other players that may be more valuable or harder to replace go.

 

For me, a poor track record of drafting and developing WRs isn't justification for giving up on it. I'm all for re-signing Torrey as well, but I'm not just matching all offers for him. Like basically every player in this league who isn't a QB, there is a price that I'd be willing to pay for every player, and it isn't whatever they want or whatever somebody else is willing to give them.

I'm far from being on that train of thought.  If Torrey is asking for too much, then I'm all in for letting him hit free agency; however, my issue is HOW much our fans are downplaying Torrey's value to the team.  

 

"We can find another Torrey, he's just a one -trick pony"

 

"Any first round talent can replace Torrey".  

 

Torrey is a proven pro that helped us score 11 times this season.  Is he replaceable? Yes.  Is it almost sure-fired that we can replace his talent with a rookie? No.  Fans should appreciate a player like Torrey. 

[rmw10]

I don't, because I think he's tied to Cutler. I think they both have one season in Chicago to show their value, and if it doesn't go well, both will be gone this time next season.

 

Unless Fox has already determined he doesn't want Cutler, and is "setting him up to fail", it doesn't really do the Bears any good to move Marshall right now unless its by trade in my opinion. Its not like they are a player or two away from being a great team, and his cap savings isn't significant enough.

 

Sometimes it's not all about the money.  If they think Marshall is one that won't mesh well going forward, they'll move on from him.  Assuming the stories were true, we did the same exact thing with Pollard.

[rmcjacket23]

I'm far from being on that train of thought.  If Torrey is asking for too much, then I'm all in for letting him hit free agency; however, my issue is HOW much our fans are downplaying Torrey's value to the team.  

 

"We can find another Torrey, he's just a one -trick pony"

 

"Any first round talent can replace Torrey".  

 

Torrey is a proven pro that helped us score 11 times this season.  Is he replaceable? Yes.  Is it almost sure-fired that we can replace his talent with a rookie? No.  Fans should appreciate a player like Torrey. 

 

I actually am not concerned so much about replacing Torrey's 2014 production, because I literally do think you can get a FA veteran for cheaper or even a top 2-3 round draft pick who can produce those numbers.

 

Keep in mind that Torrey was a second round pick who was considered pretty raw when he was drafted, and he basically put up very similar numbers in 2014 as he did his rookie season. Yes, he scored 11 TDs, but TDs aren't really something you can consistently bank on with WRs, and they can easily be spread around to other potential red zone weapons that we have. Realistically, Torrey has always been more of a 6-8 TD per season guy anyway.

 

Sure, he adds some value for drawing penalties and that stuff, but lets face it... if that's one of the major "pros" of his skill sets, you are kind of already indicating that his pure receiving skills aren't as great as they should be. There aren't too many top-end receivers in this league that I say "yeah, and they draw a lot of penalties too".

 

From a pure statistical production standpoint, I don't think replacing Torrey is as difficult as some make it out to be, based on what we've seen from him over four years. What we probably won't be able to replace is his speed and deep threat ability that makes defenses take notice.

[rmcjacket23]

Sometimes it's not all about the money.  If they think Marshall is one that won't mesh well going forward, they'll move on from him.  Assuming the stories were true, we did the same exact thing with Pollard.

Very true. But I don't know that Fox can make that assessment without at least coaching him for one year in Chicago.

[rmw10]

Very true. But I don't know that Fox can make that assessment without at least coaching him for one year in Chicago.

 

It could be management making the decision as well.