Defensive Backs' Coverage

[Corvus]

I haven't made a topic in ages here but I am compelled to do so now. Who else is sick and tired of seeing our corners and defensive backs play 10 yards off of every receiver?

 

I know the explanation is that "well they don't trust these guys to hold up in man coverage" but I don't think that is the point here. The point is, you need to adjust in game and while we are pretty decent in adjustments in many areas, this is not one of them. The pass rush simply wasn't getting there in the second half yesterday which further exposed our poor secondary but our guys continued to play 10 yards off the vast majority of the time, allowing Brady to dink and dunk all night. And when you consider that our guys were probably missing 1 out of every 3 tackles, those 7 yard passes can turn into the same huge gains and TDs you might be giving up in man coverage (see Amendola's first TD). When the pass rush is not doing its job, why not bring your DBs up to the LOS and get their hands on these receivers within the 5 yards to try and disrupt the timing of these short throws, because that is what they are precedented upon, timing. I would rather see us trying to jam opponent's receivers and possibly still give up a 20 yard pass than continue to see these good QBs given gift wrapped short throws every play which can still turn into big plays themselves with our shoddy tackling.

 

The sad thing about all of this is this is not a Dean Pees problem, he is simply continuing the trend. Pagano's defense did it,  Mattison's defense did it. I just don't get the benefit of always playing this way defensively when it continues to fail year in and year out, regardless of the personnel in the secondary...we have got to get some serious talent to go along with Jimmy and maybe that will convince these defensive staffs to play their guys in a different manner, otherwise it will be the same story again next year when our team is trying to make another run.

[stealerhater]

yes i agree 100% and i think the db coach needs to teach the corners that when the the receivers are in the end zone and the ball is snapped at the 30 yard line that you need to turn around and look for the ball really dumb its not like the receovers can go any fartherits simple after 3 seconds the ball is coming turn around and plat the ball.elementary.and to your point when you jam receivers at the line it give more time for the rush to get there.i also think that all ravens fans should be outraged at a porous defense that gave up 35 points and the coach never changed the schemealso all ravens fan should demand that the coach get some defense every ravens fan needs to demand this now keep blogging tweeting and emailing everyone to keep the pressure on until we get a defense like we had years ago and quit making excuses and praising a very bad defense.and also the coach should pull his players off the field until the refs fix the cheating and deception by other coache annd players plain and simple he should tell the head ref fix it or we forfeit and leave the field.watch how fast it gets fixed

[GrimCoconut]

The biggest problem on this team isn't the off coverage, man coverage, blown coverages, zone coverage. The biggest problem on this team is tackling. It's really bad and really needs to be improved. We need constant tackling drills.

[The Raven]

As Grim said, the main problem was tackling. Zone coverage is extremely effective, but only when players make tackles.

 

The other problem was the lack of press man. Melvin beasted in the last few games because he was allowed to play to his strength-- press man. Pees took that away from him last night.

[stealerhater]

fans should be outraged at the coach for not fixing it .up 14 points twice and still allowing them to passdemand a fix everyone

[stampedehero]

As Grim said, the main problem was tackling. Zone coverage is extremely effective, but only when players make tackles.

 

The other problem was the lack of press man. Melvin beasted in the last few games because he was allowed to play to his strength-- press man. Pees took that away from him last night.

That is an interesting viewpoint.  For our D to create turnovers we had to take risk instead of giving them opportunity.  Danny Amendola scored because of the secondary philosophy  

[stampedehero]

As Grim said, the main problem was tackling. Zone coverage is extremely effective, but only when players make tackles.

 

The other problem was the lack of press man. Melvin beasted in the last few games because he was allowed to play to his strength-- press man. Pees took that away from him last night.

 

 

 

I witnessed some really awlful technique . So much so I renewed my old habit of throwing anything near me into the floor. 

[stampedehero]

If Spagnuola gets an offer I hope he takes it.  We need a fresh DB coach.   IF Ed Reed did not do what he is employeed as now I (as MGMT) would seriously consider hiring him to teach basic techniques. ..........Even if it off season part time.        Perhaps MGMT ought to hire a football vet who actually grappled leags and applied pain. 

[Guest]

The biggest problem on this team isn't the off coverage, man coverage, blown coverages, zone coverage. The biggest problem on this team is tackling. It's really bad and really needs to be improved. We need constant tackling drills.

 

we didn't adequately respond to our inability to contain the pats dink and dunk passing game

 

we didn't have the personnel, but our coaching staff didn't have contingency plans either

 

its a shame because we had them...we certainly did

[ccflraven]

I'm in favor of it

[Corvus]

No doubt that tackling is as big of an issue, I alluded to the missed tackles initially. And as stampedehero said, a missed tackle resulted in Amendola's first TD. I just think mixing up the coverage to include some "bump and run" type coverage to disrupt some of the timing on these quick developing routes like we saw last night would help, regardless of how "good or bad" our DBs are at man coverage.

[Dfence4champs2052]

I agree with this thread and the OP completely. Why is it the Ravens seem to put their gameplans on both sides of the ball in CINDERBLOCK. The coaching staff rarely adjusts and when they do it's often too late. And on top of that, they seem to not be in touch with what's going on, on the field. Harbaugh showed more outrage and passion at the Pats' cheating tactics than his D-coordinator playing off 15 yards every play on short passes and zero effort to run the ball. Mind boggling for sure.

[BmoreBird22]

The coaches let capable players press. Jimmy played the majority of his snaps in press man, Cary played the majority of his in press man, Melvin played the majority of his in press man. It's a trust fact and with guys like Webb and Elam, you aren't going to ask them to press in all likelihood. I'd be far more concerned with this if the corners the Ravens had were like Jimmy, Revis, and Sherman and they aren't using press technique. 

 

Still, as others have pointed out, it's the tackling. I didn't feel like the off man coverage or zone were a problem. I noticed a lot of times where the zone would put a defender in position to make a tackle after a yard or two, but the initial tackle was missed. At least when the corners were playing off they made good open field tackles, just not the tackles at the LoS, where they should have.

[4everraven]

Watching all the press coverage in today's games just makes you wonder what could've been.

[Static]

fans should be outraged at the coach for not fixing it .up 14 points twice and still allowing them to passdemand a fix everyone

 

Dean Peas specifically 

[jdynamite]

I felt that at some point an adjustment should have been made with at least some press man coverages to throw off timing, perhaps give the d-line an extra second to get to Brady now that there aren't free releases all over the field.

Given our biggest weakness yesterday was Tackling. It made no sense to continue playing 10 yards off across The board. Even on 3rd and 2, Melvin was 8 yards off and back pedaled 4 yards before coming up and missing a tackle.

Felt like on some of the plays if we put hands on WRs at start of the play perhaps it forces Brady to go down his progression gives front 7 little more time for pressure. Rather than him walking up saying out route to eldeman, to Amendola, Vereen thanks I'll take that 6 yard pass ( missed tackle ) 15 yard gain thank you very much.

[JoeyFlex5]

The coaches let capable players press. Jimmy played the majority of his snaps in press man, Cary played the majority of his in press man, Melvin played the majority of his in press man. It's a trust fact and with guys like Webb and Elam, you aren't going to ask them to press in all likelihood. I'd be far more concerned with this if the corners the Ravens had were like Jimmy, Revis, and Sherman and they aren't using press technique. 

 

Still, as others have pointed out, it's the tackling. I didn't feel like the off man coverage or zone were a problem. I noticed a lot of times where the zone would put a defender in position to make a tackle after a yard or two, but the initial tackle was missed. At least when the corners were playing off they made good open field tackles, just not the tackles at the LoS, where they should have.

do you have any footage i can see of cary williams playing the majority of snaps in press? because i recall him giving up slants all day because he played 10 yards off.

[jdynamite]

I mean even Webb was playing off a high percentage of plays.

The only deep threat they've used all year was LaFell.

The one time Melvin plays up was when Lafell lined up in front of him but when the little guys lined up he was 10 yards off. And for whatever reason with Melvin playing press that one time with there deep threat in front of him Stewart the safety did not cover over the top.

I also felt like we didn't take advantage of them losing that interior linemen ( I think it was center Stork ) we didn't attack them there. Not many stunt blitzes to confuse the replacement.

[ravensnick]

The biggest problem on this team isn't the off coverage, man coverage, blown coverages, zone coverage. The biggest problem on this team is tackling. It's really bad and really needs to be improved. We need constant tackling drills.

Elam's in particular. he was letting first downs come left and right as well as that terrible Amendola TD.

[ravensnick]

Watching all the press coverage in today's games just makes you wonder what could've been.

We don't have the personal for press. Webb would get eaten alive and so would have Levine. Melvin may have been able to hold but who knows with him.

[ravensnick]

As Grim said, the main problem was tackling. Zone coverage is extremely effective, but only when players make tackles.

 

The other problem was the lack of press man. Melvin beasted in the last few games because he was allowed to play to his strength-- press man. Pees took that away from him last night.

Sure looked good in press man when Lafell ran right past him for that TD.

[The Raven]

Sure looked good in press man when Lafell ran right past him for that TD.

 

Was decent coverage, just didn't look for the ball. 

[ravensnick]

Was decent coverage, just didn't look for the ball. 

Was also a halfstep behind, allowing Lafell to wall him off a bit. I think he thought he was going to get better safety help. Still gave up over 220 yds and 2 TDs. He has talent and let's bring him back, but he needs a lot of work. 

[jdynamite]

The coaches let capable players press. Jimmy played the majority of his snaps in press man, Cary played the majority of his in press man, Melvin played the majority of his in press man. It's a trust fact and with guys like Webb and Elam, you aren't going to ask them to press in all likelihood. I'd be far more concerned with this if the corners the Ravens had were like Jimmy, Revis, and Sherman and they aren't using press technique.

Still, as others have pointed out, it's the tackling. I didn't feel like the off man coverage or zone were a problem. I noticed a lot of times where the zone would put a defender in position to make a tackle after a yard or two, but the initial tackle was missed. At least when the corners were playing off they made good open field tackles, just not the tackles at the LoS, where they should have.

Cary played off a majority of time with us, not sure what he's doing in Philly. But with us Cary stayed lined up 7+ yards off at least 75% of the time. There was that one Sunday Night Football game vs The Patriots where Brady target Cary Williams ( play after play after play ) similar to how Flacco did Corey Webster later that season. Cary Williams never came up. ( he at least tackled better than these guys I'll say that. )

Before the injuries Webb was much more physical at the line, but his coverage was tight and he showed good recoverability and recognition. Injuries took a big toll on how he played this year, just never moved as fluidly.

It took Jimmy a long time before he finally started getting in WRs faces it used to drive me crazy, because he was playing off and falling for double moves thinking too much, once he started getting in their face he started reacting more naturally.

Seattle plays a cover 3 defense most of the time, so Sherman rarely plays man, a lot times Sherman lines up in front of the WR, shows press then at the snap of the ball he bails out, or he gives a single punch then goes into his zone. ( but even that gives the offense something to think about. )

[BmoreBird22]

do you have any footage i can see of cary williams playing the majority of snaps in press? because i recall him giving up slants all day because he played 10 yards off.

Yeah, now that you're saying this, I'm rethinking that because I always did hate his large cushions... maybe I'm remembering how he should have been a press corner...

[BmoreBird22]

Cary played off a majority of time with us, not sure what he's doing in Philly. But with us Cary stayed lined up 7+ yards off at least 75% of the time. There was that one Sunday Night Football game vs The Patriots where Brady target Cary Williams ( play after play after play ) similar to how Flacco did Corey Webster later that season. Cary Williams never came up. ( he at least tackled better than these guys I'll say that. )

Before the injuries Webb was much more physical at the line, but his coverage was tight and he showed good recoverability and recognition. Injuries took a big toll on how he played this year, just never moved as fluidly.

It took Jimmy a long time before he finally started getting in WRs faces it used to drive me crazy, because he was playing off and falling for double moves thinking too much, once he started getting in their face he started reacting more naturally.

Seattle plays a cover 3 defense most of the time, so Sherman rarely plays man, a lot times Sherman lines up in front of the WR, shows press then at the snap of the ball he bails out, or he gives a single punch then goes into his zone. ( but even that gives the offense something to think about. )

I just told Joey that once he mentioned that, all those memories of cushions came back. I think I'm remembering how he should have been a press man corner.

Once we saw Jimmy get conformable with defending double moves and fakes, he got to be a press man corner. I think those two things coincided.

Webb was definitely physical, but I think what defined him was how quick he was in his breaks on the ball. He could just change direction so seamlessly and make it so effortless

I know they play a base cover 3, but Sherman still presses quite a bit, often pressing and bailing

[K-Dog]

Off season is the big reset button.

 

Webb has six months to rest and heal.  Maybe get some of his speed and edge back.  Maybe work on some technique.  Jimmy will be back with hopefully no lingering effects.  But there are no guarantees in either of them and that is troubling.   We know the both of them have the potential to play pro bowl level.  Or they could just be average or even below.
Its a heck of a gamble.

 

I am glad I am not Ozzie.

[52520Andrew]

We don't have the guys to do anything else honestly. We need to get some guys and then we can have this discussion. I don't like playing off either but if we play press against NE yesterday with our current crop, we get burned deep. I mean Edelman threw a long bomb on our guys. People love to think we have the 06 secondary back there for whatever reason but we don't and it is kinda insulting to those guys when people say bringing in a guy like Rex or playing a similar scheme magically cures everything. Lets get healthy and get some talent back there and then we can do more press or whatever we decide to do.

[Tank 92]

Off season is the big reset button.

 

Webb has six months to rest and heal.  Maybe get some of his speed and edge back.  Maybe work on some technique.  Jimmy will be back with hopefully no lingering effects.  But there are no guarantees in either of them and that is troubling.   We know the both of them have the potential to play pro bowl level.  Or they could just be average or even below.

Its a heck of a gamble.

 

I am glad I am not Ozzie.

 

 

At this point I have more hope for Melvin than Webb.

[sharkh20]

We don't have the personal for press. Webb would get eaten alive and so would have Levine. Melvin may have been able to hold but who knows with him.

I am so tired of this excuse. You might as well not suit up if you are going to give up 7 yards every single play playing off coverage on a team that isn't running the ball ever. Really, there is no logic whatsoever in what you are saying. It's either try it and maybe make a stop. Or don't try it and don't ever make a stop. You would for whatever reason choose the later option which is just asinine.

 

Sure looked good in press man when Lafell ran right past him for that TD.

He had really good coverage on him, it was a perfect throw and a good catch. And you act like somehow playing off would have helped. Every time someone has gone deep on us this year when we are playing off coverage, they are wide open by like 10 yards.