Brady to Ravens: 'Study the rule book and figure it out'

[Bruce_Almty]

Yeah, you'll here conflicting scientific evidence on both sides. Its clearly easier to catch a softer ball in cold weather, though whether its easier to throw or not is a matter of perspective for the QB.

 

There is the notion that a softer ball will obviously have less velocity and inherently won't travel as far on an identical throw, but I'm sure QBs can negate that.

I get the 'easier to catch' but the whole discussion is about QB preference. No one cares about the pass catchers.

[callahan09]

I'm a bit perplexed though why anybody would suspect that Belichick or Brady was going to come out and say "yup, I did it". Not like the public is going to go light on them for saying that, nor does it really do them any good to do so.

I was going to say "Integrity"... but then I realized who we're talking about and why we're talking about them.  If they had integrity, they wouldn't have anything to come out and admit.  So thinking they would have some integrity and own up to this was probably pretty naive.

[stopyellingatthetv]

The only thing that I came away with from those press conferences was that they would have been better off staying quiet. Like Dan Graziano said, they had two perfect chances to clear the air and squash this and they decided to pass the buck back and forth to each other. I do tend to lean more towards Belicheat as being more truthful then Brady. You could just tell by facial expression and body language that he was super uncomfortable and definitely looked shady and shifty. 

[Static]

You know how I know he's guilty? He actually answered questions instead of being snarky and dismissing.

[gooftroop]

Right, but that's the out isn't it? Somebody on the staff knows, but Belichick and Brady don't know. Feasible, probably unlikely, but who really knows.

 

Can't you kind of see Belichick being the kind of guy who when somebody comes up to him and tells him that the balls have been inflated some, he kind of screams at the guy and tells him something like "why  do I care"?

 

I can definitely see that from him...

One thing I can't see is an equipment manager taking it upon himself to doctor the ball.

[stampedehero]

We will remember this topic if the Commisioner penalizes Brady  After all who knows about a ball condition better than the QB/and center.

[allblackraven]

What I want to know now is how will NFL respond, to what extent and when, considering the timing.

 

What happens if they remain quiet, NE somehow wins SB, then NFL suspends someone from NE for tampering with game balls in the previous game?

[Static]

What I want to know now is how will NFL respond, to what extent and when, considering the timing.

 

What happens if they remain quiet, NE somehow wins SB, then NFL suspends someone from NE for tampering with game balls in the previous game?

 

Probably lose 1st, 2nd round picks and slashing some cut because this is the 2nd time they've been CAUGHT breaking the rules.

 

 

Most likely they throw some local hire chump under the bus and feign ignorance.

[allblackraven]

Probably lose 1st, 2nd round picks and slashing some cut because this is the 2nd time they've been CAUGHT breaking the rules.

 

 

Most likely they throw some local hire chump under the bus and feign ignorance.

 

 I get that but this would confirm that they indeed had unfair advantage moving on to the SB and yet they had been allowed to compete and win that same SB.

[Static]

 I get that but this would confirm that they indeed had unfair advantage moving on to the SB and yet they had been allowed to compete and win that same SB.

 

Did they cheat? Yes. Are they where they are because of some bad balls? Nah. But the Patriots dynasty with always have an asterisks to me anyways.

[rmcjacket23]

 I get that but this would confirm that they indeed had unfair advantage moving on to the SB and yet they had been allowed to compete and win that same SB.

May be true, but I doubt anybody really thinks that a harsh punishment is coming before the SB.

 

Its not like they are going to make the Pats forfeit to the Colts or anything, because the crime doesn't nearly warrant that kind of punishment, so the Pats are going to play in that game regardless of what punishment comes down.

 

I think its unreasonable to expect the NFL to hand down a significant punishment before the SB. Frankly, it benefits nobody to that anyway.

[Ravens Rule123454321]

I believe that Tom Brady deliberately played the biggest role in that. For some reason I honestly don't think belicheck knew, however I believe Brady probably would have told the people who were going to touch the ball(the center, the receivers, the running backs). But it just makes me wonder if they had something up their sleeve when they played us in the divisional game. They blew out the colts the past few times they played before that game so I dont see why its something they would have come up with specifically for the colts and not have had something for the ravens when we have played them tight and won two of the past three games we played them in their stadium. 

[DMH_in_WA]

May be true, but I doubt anybody really thinks that a harsh punishment is coming before the SB.

 

Its not like they are going to make the Pats forfeit to the Colts or anything, because the crime doesn't nearly warrant that kind of punishment, so the Pats are going to play in that game regardless of what punishment comes down.

 

I think its unreasonable to expect the NFL to hand down a significant punishment before the SB. Frankly, it benefits nobody to that anyway.

Hey, look .. we finally agree on something. Unless there's video of Belichick and Brady handing some ball boy $5000 cash and audio of them saying, "Make sure you take 2PSI out of each." There is nothing that's going to happen to the Patriots that effects the SB. Especially since the Colts decided not to show up and play in the AFCCG.

It really would have been interesting though, especially in light of the Edelman TD pass, if this had come out after the Ravens game. This story might be even more out of control.

Will be interesting to see what the punishment will be, but the commissioner was pretty much given carte blanche to hand out any punishment after Spygate when the act threatens the integrity of the game. I know you can't slap them with the $25,000 min. fine though .. gonna have to be way more severe. Especially since you just fined Marshawn Lynch $20,000 today for making an obscene gesture Sunday.

[Ravens Rule123454321]

 I get that but this would confirm that they indeed had unfair advantage moving on to the SB and yet they had been allowed to compete and win that same SB.

I'm sure the deflated footballs gave them an advantage but the score was 45-7. I doubt that the footballs gave the pats a 38 point advantage. Makes me wonder what/if they had something up their sleeve for the ravens.

[allblackraven]

May be true, but I doubt anybody really thinks that a harsh punishment is coming before the SB.

 

Its not like they are going to make the Pats forfeit to the Colts or anything, because the crime doesn't nearly warrant that kind of punishment, so the Pats are going to play in that game regardless of what punishment comes down.

 

I think its unreasonable to expect the NFL to hand down a significant punishment before the SB. Frankly, it benefits nobody to that anyway.

 

I know, I know... definitely not expecting anything on that end. And they likely win AFC title game with correct balls but I have big issue with the fact that by breaking the rules you deprive the opposition of level playing field (who knows how many times have they done this previously) and the ONLY beneficiary is YOU. YOU simply do not deserve a chance to compete for SB.

[rmcjacket23]

Hey, look .. we finally agree on something. Unless there's video of Belichick and Brady handing some ball boy $5000 cash and audio of them saying, "Make sure you take 2PSI out of each." There is nothing that's going to happen to the Patriots that effects the SB. Especially since the Colts decided not to show up and play in the AFCCG.

It really would have been interesting though, especially in light of the Edelman TD pass, if this had come out after the Ravens game. This story might be even more out of control.

Will be interesting to see what the punishment will be, but the commissioner was pretty much given carte blanche to hand out any punishment after Spygate when the act threatens the integrity of the game. I know you can't slap them with the $25,000 min. fine though .. gonna have to be way more severe. Especially since you just fined Marshawn Lynch $20,000 today for making an obscene gesture Sunday.

Yeah I mean everybody understands the "integrity" issue, but I think people take it a bit far, particularly in this instance.

 

Anytime somebody is caught cheating, regardless of whether its by making an illegal hit on somebody like Suh, using PEDs, etc., it affects the integrity of the game in some way.

 

The key to the punishment is simply deciphering how much the integrity of the game is actually hurt by thus, and yes, take into consideration how prevalent stuff like this is. Nobody likes to discuss the elephant in the room of "well a lot of people do this", but I guarantee it plays a factor in his decision making. Its by no means the biggest factor, but its probably a sliver. I mean if he, for example, goes and asks like 25 different players what they think about this, and like 20 of them or more say they could care less, don't you think he would take that into consideration in his punishment?

 

Me personally, I don't see this having nearly the effect on the integrity of the game as some people do. Even though a lot of people in the media are complete morons, you can generally get a good sense of the severity of something based on their outrage around this incident.

 

Things like Bountygate and the Ray Rice scandal were almost unanimously viewed as major problems integrity-wise for the sport. I'm just not convinced this rises anywhere near that level, which is why I don't think the punishment will be nearly as severe.

 

I think legitimately the only thing stopping the NFL from just like fining the organization like $500K or something "big" but small in real terms is Spygate.

[DMH_in_WA]

Yeah I mean everybody understands the "integrity" issue, but I think people take it a bit far, particularly in this instance.

I think the component of being repeat offenders and the profile of the game adds a lot to this. If it's the Jags or the Titans week 15, it's a 2 or 3 day little story and we move on (unless they tried something after that made it drag on). How many people even remember the Chargers and their Sticky Towels?

For the Patriots, who have been caught red-handed once and who have been accused of dozens of things the last decade by numerous teams, to do this -again- and then to have the gall to do it in a high profile game that's only below the Superbowl in importance? I think they're going to pile on.

Lets face it, $500k to Kraft is like me taking $50 out of your wallet. They are going to want to do something that stops the Patriots from doing something like this again. Can you imagine if 3 years from now the Patriots are caught again in something like this after the NFL gives them a little slap on the wrist? Talk about media frenzy.

[rmcjacket23]

I think the component of being repeat offenders and the profile of the game adds a lot to this. If it's the Jags or the Titans week 15, it's a 2 or 3 day little story and we move on (unless they tried something after that made it drag on). How many people even remember the Chargers and their Sticky Towels?

For the Patriots, who have been caught red-handed once and who have been accused of dozens of things the last decade by numerous teams, to do this -again- and then to have the gall to do it in a high profile game that's only below the Superbowl in importance? I think they're going to pile on.

Lets face it, $500k to Kraft is like me taking $50 out of your wallet. They are going to want to do something that stops the Patriots from doing something like this again. Can you imagine if 3 years from now the Patriots are caught again in something like this after the NFL gives them a little slap on the wrist? Talk about media frenzy.

Right, but I think in certain aspects this has always been an individual blame.

 

I mean does anybody really blame anyone other than Belichick for Spygate? I certainly don't have any bad feelings towards Kraft or Brady because of Spygate... that's simply a Belichick thing.

 

In this case, perhaps naively so, I'm not sure what role Belichick has in any of this, outside possibly knowing about it and not doing anything about it (which in modern society is somehow as bad as doing the act yourself, which I never understood). For some reason, I just don't see Belichick being that guy that tells the ballboy to deflate the balls, or even telling somebody to tell somebody to do that.

 

So for me, its sort of a Belichick gets credit for Spygate and Brady gets credit for this, which is why I'm not sure the hammer gets dropped, and if it does, I think its on the organization as a whole, not at the individual person suspension level.

 

I mean lets face it... that's the only real punishment that means anything... suspending Bill or Tom. I'm sure they'd voluntarily give up a first round pick just to not lose either of them for even one game.

[PeRK82]

I believe that Tom Brady deliberately played the biggest role in that. For some reason I honestly don't think belicheck knew, however I believe Brady probably would have told the people who were going to touch the ball(the center, the receivers, the running backs). But it just makes me wonder if they had something up their sleeve when they played us in the divisional game. They blew out the colts the past few times they played before that game so I dont see why its something they would have come up with specifically for the colts and not have had something for the ravens when we have played them tight and won two of the past three games we played them in their stadium. 

 

If they deflated the 11 balls out of 12 in the COLTS game , then i guarantee you they had deflated balls playing us without question.  It was just as cold if not colder and it was supposed to rain also.  And they were more worried about playing us than they were playing the COLTS.

[drdoub]

Listen I don't think this is as big a deal as spygate. However It is cheating and they should be punished. I doubt we will ever understand the depth at which the patriots cheat/ bend the ruled to get an advantage. I say this because the nfl will always try to maintain the legacy of the patriots. They do not want a black eye on what some think are some of the best players/ coaches to play this game. The nfl does not want to end up like the MLB.

A patient of mine had an interesting idea which will never happen but which would result in some info/ facts about what happened/ the extent of their cheating. I found his punishment interesting:

He suggested that after the super bowl to suspend Belichick and Brady and take away first round draft picks indefinitely until the patriots come clean about the extent of their cheating. He thought this would force not only their best player, coach but also organization to tell the nfl something.

[ravensdfan]

Did they cheat? Yes. Are they where they are because of some bad balls? Nah. But the Patriots dynasty with always have an asterisks to me anyways.

I disagree. To believe that they did this for this ONE game is ridiculous. This is obviously something they could (and probably have been) doing for numerous games going back who knows how long. The Colts players have already said they felt the difference in the balls in their first match up as well.

[rmcjacket23]

I disagree. To believe that they did this for this ONE game is ridiculous. This is obviously something they could (and probably have been) doing for numerous games going back who knows how long. The Colts players have already said they felt the difference in the balls in their first match up as well.

Right, but its also getting difficult to ascertain what is speculation and what is real as well. After all, we were originally told that the Dqwell Jackson INT led to the Colts asking the officials to check the balls, and now Jackson himself said that's just completely false.

 

Plus, we can't go back and say "well because they did this once they must have been doing it forever", because that's pure speculation. I guarantee the NFL isn't dealing with hypotheticals like that when they hand out a punishment. They're in trouble for potentially doing it this game, because that's when they were actually caught doing it.

 

There's absolutely no point in playing the "well they must have been doing it forever" card.

[ravensdfan]

Right, but its also getting difficult to ascertain what is speculation and what is real as well. After all, we were originally told that the Dqwell Jackson INT led to the Colts asking the officials to check the balls, and now Jackson himself said that's just completely false.

 

Plus, we can't go back and say "well because they did this once they must have been doing it forever", because that's pure speculation. I guarantee the NFL isn't dealing with hypotheticals like that when they hand out a punishment. They're in trouble for potentially doing it this game, because that's when they were actually caught doing it.

 

There's absolutely no point in playing the "well they must have been doing it forever" card.

Yes we can because Brady has claimed way back to 2006 about how he liked the football. Anyone who thinks they only did it this one game is in serious denial.

 

BTW, no former players believe him either.

 

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=12213476&ex_cid=sportscenterFB

[jaege]

And they could potentially look at it that way... but doesn't mean they will.

 

If Suh repeatedly stomps on a player during a game, which he has done, do they fine/suspend the coach for that because he should be in control of his people?

 

The issue with Bountygate and why it was so harsh has a lot to do with timing and perception. Players and coaches paying each other to violently hurt other people has a far worse public perception than deflating some footballs.

 

Also keep in mind what is occurring during the Bountygate scandal... lawsuits against the NFL for concussions and for the NFL turning a blind eye to health concerns in their organization. Imagine the plaintiffs going to a court and a lawsuit and showing a judge how the NFL lightly punishes people who condone or allow paying to hurt other players... its the kind of thing that could potentially cost the NFL millions of dollars or more.

 

This also excludes the fact that, based on what we've seen now (subject to change pending the investigation of course), the NFL had a TON more evidence in the Bountygate case than they do for this. Right now, they've got deflated footballs. In the Bountygate case, they actually identified the "who" and the "how".

 

I agree that they don't have to prove Belichick has direct knowledge in order to punish him and punish him harshly... but I would think, logically, that they'd have to at least be able to blame somebody. There was a pretty clear paper trail and pretty identifiable parties in the Bountygate case. I haven't seen that yet with this, though it still is early.

 

 

I understand your points, and agree with them, but this would be the second time that they have "cheated". There is also the backlash from the Rice fiasco where the public felt that the fine was too soft. Goodel may have to be more stern than he wants to just to save face. Or it could be just a slap on the wrist, but that would be a bigger black eye for the league I think.

 

Obviously, it is too late to sweep it under the rug which I am sure they would like to do, just to spare their image.

[rmcjacket23]

Yes we can because Brady has claimed way back to 2006 about how he liked the football. Anyone who thinks they only did it this one game is in serious denial.

 

BTW, no former players believe him either.

 

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=12213476&ex_cid=sportscenterFB

So, just so I understand you correctly...

 

Because Brady once said he likes his footballs a certain way back in 2006, and since he has now ONCE been potentially caught deflating footballs, you believe that's sufficient evidence to indicate he has done this in every game from 2006 to 2015?

 

All I can say is... I'm glad nobody there is no judicial system on this planet that thinks that way, including the NFL.

 

And nobody said anything questioning whether his lying this time. What I'm questioning is how any rational human being thinks they even have 1% of the required evidence to say that they've been doing this repeatedly over a long period of time.

 

Again, this is all moot, because I guarantee the NFL isn't dealing in such hypotheticals.

[rmcjacket23]

I understand your points, and agree with them, but this would be the second time that they have "cheated". There is also the backlash from the Rice fiasco where the public felt that the fine was too soft. Goodel may have to be more stern than he wants to just to save face. Or it could be just a slap on the wrist, but that would be a bigger black eye for the league I think.

 

Obviously, it is too late to sweep it under the rug which I am sure they would like to do, just to spare their image.

The Rice case is so vastly different in my opinion that I don't even think its a consideration. That's a national outrage story that had the potential for the NFL to lose massive female fanbases and face excessive backlash from politicians and even TV networks.

 

I can't even fathom this being even in the same stratosphere in impact as that case was. There's no public interest groups calling for a boycott of the NFL because of this. I don't see more than maybe 20 people on the planet no longer watching football because Brady deflated some footballs.

 

In fact, if you ask some people, this is a great ratings play for the NFL, although they'd almost certainly want to smother it by Monday when the officially kick off SB week.

 

If they did do a "slap on the wrist", I seriously doubt they'll face any public outcry (outside of the standard overreaction from sports networks) from anybody, because nobody really cares that much. Sports networks aren't what drove the backlash against the NFL for the Ray Rice incident... it went way beyond that.

[ravensdfan]

So, just so I understand you correctly...

 

Because Brady once said he likes his footballs a certain way back in 2006, and since he has now ONCE been potentially caught deflating footballs, you believe that's sufficient evidence to indicate he has done this in every game from 2006 to 2015?

 

All I can say is... I'm glad nobody there is no judicial system on this planet that thinks that way, including the NFL.

 

And nobody said anything questioning whether his lying this time. What I'm questioning is how any rational human being thinks they even have 1% of the required evidence to say that they've been doing this repeatedly over a long period of time.

 

Again, this is all moot, because I guarantee the NFL isn't dealing in such hypotheticals.

To think they did this in the AFCCG without any confidence of having done it before and gotten away with it is naive.

[ratedr]

I just don't know how the NFL can punish them. There's really no way to prove intent here.

 

Some Patriots fans think the Ravens caused this investigation and that it's a big conspiracy by the league to take down the Pats. Because that would make sense. Lol.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

I just don't know how the NFL can punish them. There's really no way to prove intent here.

 

Some Patriots fans think the Ravens caused this investigation and that it's a big conspiracy by the league to take down the Pats. Because that would make sense. Lol.

 

I just don't know how the NFL can punish them. There's really no way to prove intent here.

 

Some Patriots fans think the Ravens caused this investigation and that it's a big conspiracy by the league to take down the Pats. Because that would make sense. Lol.

The question is not punishment. The NFL has all but committed to that. The question is simply what the punishment will be. Intent does not come into play here. Just the rule violations themselves.

[DMH_in_WA]

I just don't know how the NFL can punish them. There's really no way to prove intent here.

 

Some Patriots fans think the Ravens caused this investigation and that it's a big conspiracy by the league to take down the Pats. Because that would make sense. Lol.

When I started reading their "conspiracy setup" theory on Pats forums, I thought it was a joke at first. Some levity at a dark time. Then I read more and realized they are serious. They're not sure if it's the Ravens because we lost (I'm not sure how we set this all up) or if it was Irsay. As far as they are concerned, the balls were perfect PSI during the 1st half and that's why Brady didn't notice anything. Then they were altered at halftime (apparently very fast) and the setup was on.

As for the punishment part, after Spygate the commissioner was basically given the power to dole out any punishment he saw fit if it was an issue of game integrity. At this point I think, like jkm5bmore says, the punishment is coming .. they're just trying to figure out what it will be.