Brady to Ravens: 'Study the rule book and figure it out'

[rmcjacket23]

So there goes the rationalization that all QBs do it so it's OK.  He's summarily denying even knowing the balls were deflated.

What exactly does one thing have to do with the other?

 

Are you assuming that because all QBs do it all HCs know about it?

 

I don't think that anybody is assuming that all QBs do it or have done it... I think we are assuming that, like many rule violations, it happens far more frequently and is more accepted within the industry than fans recognize or want to give it credit for.

[allblackraven]

This t-shirt design is hilarious! 

 

Lmao

[Tank 92]

What exactly does one thing have to do with the other?

 

Are you assuming that because all QBs do it all HCs know about it?

 

I don't think that anybody is assuming that all QBs do it or have done it... I think we are assuming that, like many rule violations, it happens far more frequently and is more accepted within the industry than fans recognize or want to give it credit for.

 

 

Brady denies knowing. He even went as far to say he didn't notice the difference in the ball in the second half.

[TDubbs]

If Brady didn't notice the difference, what if they used deflated balls all season long?

[Tank 92]

I hope this presser lays to rest any question that brady is a pure scum bag.  smh

[TAPLOOK]

Brady did the presser and said he has know idea what happen with the balls. He said he just plays with whats out there and doesn't give it any thought. He also say the NFL has yet to contact him.

[ravensdfan]

Source?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/22/brady-pushed-for-rule-to-let-visiting-team-provide-own-footballs/

 

I mean, really, if you use google, first story to come up there.

 

Brady denies knowing. He even went as far to say he didn't notice the difference in the ball in the second half.

LOL

 

Brady did the presser and said he has know idea what happen with the balls. He said he just plays with whats out there and doesn't give it any thought. He also say the NFL has yet to contact him.

He doesn't give it any thought but...he was behind the rule change in 2006 and in 2011 said he likes the football underinflated. Riiiiggghhhttt.

[Tank 92]

 

 

He doesn't give it any thought but...he was behind the rule change in 2006 and in 2011 said he likes the football underinflated. Riiiiggghhhttt.

 

 

......and yet he didn't notice that the balls were under inflated by 2 psi in the first half, nor did he notice that they were different in the second half.

 

I'm completely floored that he came out and just lied.  I was expecting some wormy squirmy "sorry, it won't happen again". Looking at the big picture, it probably would have just faded away. But all brady has done is add fuel to the fire. 

[rmcjacket23]

......and yet he didn't notice that the balls were under inflated by 2 psi in the first half, nor did he notice that they were different in the second half.

 

I'm completely floored that he came out and just lied.  I was expecting some wormy squirmy "sorry, it won't happen again". Looking at the big picture, it probably would have just faded away. But all brady has done is add fuel to the fire. 

Its going to fade away one way or another, as everything else does.

 

The problem here is that without a confession of sorts, or without any hard evidence really leaking any person to anything, the NFL really doesn't have much. Sure, they can fine the team or take a draft pick away or whatever, but that doesn't really accomplish much.

 

Will be interesting to see when the NFL's investigation comes out what they find. They've got the "what" part down, which is deflated footballs. The "who" and "how" parts are what is difficult to prove, and we certainly know the NFL is unlikely to hand down anything remotely resembling a "harsh" punishment based on speculation of what might have happened and who might have known and who might have done what.

 

I'm a bit perplexed though why anybody would suspect that Belichick or Brady was going to come out and say "yup, I did it". Not like the public is going to go light on them for saying that, nor does it really do them any good to do so.

[rmcjacket23]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/22/brady-pushed-for-rule-to-let-visiting-team-provide-own-footballs/

 

I mean, really, if you use google, first story to come up there.

 

LOL

 

He doesn't give it any thought but...he was behind the rule change in 2006 and in 2011 said he likes the football underinflated. Riiiiggghhhttt.

There's another QBs name on that article lobbying for the rule change as well...

 

I'm going to go ahead and use that as circumstantial evidence to accuse Peyton Manning of cheating as well all these years...

[ravensdfan]

There's another QBs name on that article lobbying for the rule change as well...

 

I'm going to go ahead and use that as circumstantial evidence to accuse Peyton Manning of cheating as well all these years...

Dude, you entirely miss the point in your enthusiasm to defend the cheaters.

The man who campaigned to be able to bring his own footballs, tailored to his liking, to away games in 2006 and then in 2011 said he likes the ball deflated then just today in a closed door meeting told his teammates he likes the ball a certain way - just stood before the world trying to claim he "didn't notice anything" and "doesn't even give it a thought.". Clearly, that's a lie based on his earlier actions and comments.

Last I checked Peyton did NOT have 11 of 12 balls show up from a game under or over inflated did he? We've already determined that many QBs have a preference to which end of the specified spectrum the ball is inflated at - but none have had 99% of the balls from a game show up outside the rules have they?

[rmcjacket23]

Dude, you entirely miss the point in your enthusiasm to defend the cheaters.

The man who campaigned to be able to bring his own footballs, tailored to his liking, to away games in 2006 and then in 2011 said he likes the ball deflated then just today in a closed door meeting told his teammates he likes the ball a certain way - just stood before the world trying to claim he "didn't notice anything" and "doesn't even give it a thought.". Clearly, that's a lie based on his earlier actions and comments.

Last I checked Peyton did NOT have 11 of 12 balls show up from a game under or over inflated did he? We've already determined that many QBs have a preference to which end of the specified spectrum the ball is inflated at - but none have had 99% of the balls from a game show up outside the rules have they?

LOL, no, I fully understood your point.

 

I get it. You're attempting to do the NFL's investigation for them by pulling incredibly circumstantial evidence and attempting to equate it to prove that this was Brady's fault. I get it.

 

I'm just saying... don't expect the NFL to take that approach.

 

Seriously speaking... what precisely did you expect Brady to say out there today? Can anybody honestly say that they expected Brady to go out there and confess like he's on his death bed or something?

[Ravenseconbeast]

Sure beats the hell out of the alternative...

Pls join the cheatriots forum and leave...its been over 3days of Brady love fest defending him like his your own child. Its getting sickening tbh.

[rmcjacket23]

Pls join the cheatriots forum and leave...its been over 3days of Brady love fest defending him like his your own child. Its getting sickening tbh.

The irony is... I haven't once defended him. When the entire board spends their full day bashing them, anything that doesn't fall within the "bashing" theme appears to be defending him. That's when you know people have really gone over board with the bashing...

 

I'll stay here. Nobody is required to read my posts. Its a choice.

[hawkprey]

Come on, guys Brady said he didn't know. It's only like his 15th season as a quarterback. How would he know what the difference is?

[ravensdfan]

LOL, no, I fully understood your point.

 

I get it. You're attempting to do the NFL's investigation for them by pulling incredibly circumstantial evidence and attempting to equate it to prove that this was Brady's fault. I get it.

 

I'm just saying... don't expect the NFL to take that approach.

 

Seriously speaking... what precisely did you expect Brady to say out there today? Can anybody honestly say that they expected Brady to go out there and confess like he's on his death bed or something?

Clearly he lied today didn't he? Because if he campaigned to be able to bring his own footballs - then it matters right? He clearly CAN tell the difference right? So if you've nothing to hide, then don't stand up there and say "I couldn't tell the difference", clearly a lie.

If he has a preference and the balls are deflated, then he can clearly tell they are closer to his preference can he not?

Are you Giselle perhaps or something?

 

Two things are true:

1. 11 of 12 balls were deflated beyond the allowed spectrum.

2. That doesn't just happen, when the Colts footballs all fell within the allowed spectrum.

 

This only benefits Tom Brady and the receivers. And, btw, anyone who believes that they only did this for this one game is beyond naive.

[rmcjacket23]

Clearly he lied today didn't he? Because if he campaigned to be able to bring his own footballs - then it matters right? He clearly CAN tell the difference right? So if you've nothing to hide, then don't stand up there and say "I couldn't tell the difference", clearly a lie.

If he has a preference and the balls are deflated, then he can clearly tell they are closer to his preference can he not?

Are you Giselle perhaps or something?

I don't know if he lied or not... nor does anybody. I THINK he did, but I expected him to begin with.

 

It doesn't matter to me one bit whether he campaigned almost a decade ago to use his own balls. That doesn't really change what he did or did not do... its almost like we're trying to prove a motive or something. We already knew what the motive potentially could be.

 

Would you have believed that it wasn't a lie even if he didn't lobby to use his own balls 10 years ago? I can confidently say, based on your previous posts, that it would have changed nothing about what you thought he did.

[ratedr]

Lots of quotes about balls in that presser. Yes, I'm immature lol.

[ravensdfan]

I don't know if he lied or not... nor does anybody. I THINK he did, but I expected him to begin with.

 

It doesn't matter to me one bit whether he campaigned almost a decade ago to use his own balls. That doesn't really change what he did or did not do... its almost like we're trying to prove a motive or something. We already knew what the motive potentially could be.

 

Would you have believed that it wasn't a lie even if he didn't lobby to use his own balls 10 years ago? I can confidently say, based on your previous posts, that it would have changed nothing about what you thought he did.

I would not be able to confidently call it a lie without the proof that he absolutely can tell the difference based on his own actions & comments in 2006 and 2011. Based on those comments however, it is clearly a lie. People only lie for one reason - to avoid getting caught at something.

To even suggest that the very fact the balls were deflated doesn't already prove tampering is ridiculous. It was 11 of 12 balls and all the Colts' balls were within the specified range. So there is no natural way for them to have gotten that way.

Absolutely no one is going to mess with those footballs without approval from the QB and/or the HC.

[rmcjacket23]

I would not be able to confidently call it a lie without the proof that he absolutely can tell the difference based on his own actions & comments in 2006 and 2011. Based on those comments however, it is clearly a lie. People only lie for one reason - to avoid getting caught at something.

To even suggest that the very fact the balls were deflated doesn't already prove tampering is ridiculous. It was 11 of 12 balls and all the Colts' balls were within the specified range. So there is no natural way for them to have gotten that way.

Absolutely no one is going to mess with those footballs without approval from the QB and/or the HC.

And I agree with that... there's practically no chance the balls get deflated without his knowledge or prior approval.

 

But again, looking forward, by denying, without much better evidence than what we've already seen, I can't see individual punishments above a fine being levied. Belichick looks fine in this to me quite frankly, and nobody really thinks the NFL would suspend Brady for a first-time offense of deflating footballs. Like I've addressed before... they issue one game suspensions for worse offenses on a repeat basis in this league routinely.

 

So, all you're really probably left with, assuming there's much of a punishment at all (which I thought initially it would be harsh but based on what I'm seeing now I think its hard to justify), is some sort of combination of large organizational fines and perhaps draft pick losses.

 

We could debate all day long what effect that would have on the Patriots. Given that a team that is perennial SB contention just recently spent a second round draft pick on a backup QB who very well may never play for them, I'm not sure taking away even a first round pick is going to hurt them that bad.

 

And from the NFL on a proactive standpoint... I'd expect to see some sort of rule change anyway. Either the balls will be 100% property of the NFL and the teams won't have access to them before games, or they'll just let each team do whatever they want to the balls to begin with. Either is fine by me.

[jaege]

And I agree with that... there's practically no chance the balls get deflated without his knowledge or prior approval.

 

But again, looking forward, by denying, without much better evidence than what we've already seen, I can't see individual punishments above a fine being levied. Belichick looks fine in this to me quite frankly, and nobody really thinks the NFL would suspend Brady for a first-time offense of deflating footballs. Like I've addressed before... they issue one game suspensions for worse offenses on a repeat basis in this league routinely.

 

So, all you're really probably left with, assuming there's much of a punishment at all (which I thought initially it would be harsh but based on what I'm seeing now I think its hard to justify), is some sort of combination of large organizational fines and perhaps draft pick losses.

 

We could debate all day long what effect that would have on the Patriots. Given that a team that is perennial SB contention just recently spent a second round draft pick on a backup QB who very well may never play for them, I'm not sure taking away even a first round pick is going to hurt them that bad.

 

And from the NFL on a proactive standpoint... I'd expect to see some sort of rule change anyway. Either the balls will be 100% property of the NFL and the teams won't have access to them before games, or they'll just let each team do whatever they want to the balls to begin with. Either is fine by me.

 

 

A precedent has been set, that ignorance is no excuse. The HC should have control of his people and the buck stops on his desk. It was never proven that Sean Peyton knew anything about bounties but he was suspended for a year. If this is proven then the precedent is that old Belicheat should be suspended and fined. Then considering it is his 2nd offense the penalty should be large.

[A Fish Called Yanda]

The way Tom Brady and Bill Belichick denied any knowledge of the situation during their press conferences today made me not believe them even more.

 

Here Brady talks about the process through which he picks which footballs he wants to play with, saying that after he picks those balls the following:

 

"I don’t want anyone touching the balls after that, I don’t want anyone rubbing them, putting any air in, taking any air out, to me those balls are perfect and that’s what I expect when I’m on the field.”

 

If the report that says the referees performed all of the test on the footballs prior to the game correctly is true, then those balls that Brady chose to be used in the game must have been at at least 12.5 psi prior to the game.  When the referees tested the pressure during halftime, 11 out of 12 were somewhere around 11 psi.  How on earth would Brady have no knowledge of any change in the balls when it is clear that he is so particular about which balls he wants to use?  It seems completely impossible to me that he wouldn't immediately feel the difference in pressure between the ball he approved for the game and the ball that reached his hands after the first snap.

 

As for Belichick, he states the following:

 

“When I came in Monday morning I was shocked to learn of the news reports about the footballs,” Belichick said. “I had no knowledge whatsoever of this situation until Monday morning.”

 

You're trying to tell me that the referees went and measured the pressure of all twelve New England footballs at halftime (I imagine this is very rarely done), determined that 92% of your balls were illegally under inflated, those balls were replaced by the alternate balls, and the head coach of the team wasn't notified during halftime, during the second half, OR AFTER THE GAME?!?!?

 

Hahahahahaha.  You seriously want me to believe that?  I can't even...

[rmcjacket23]

A precedent has been set, that ignorance is no excuse. The HC should have control of his people and the buck stops on his desk. It was never proven that Sean Peyton knew anything about bounties but he was suspended for a year. If this is proven then the precedent is that old Belicheat should be suspended and fined. Then considering it is his 2nd offense the penalty should be large.

And they could potentially look at it that way... but doesn't mean they will.

 

If Suh repeatedly stomps on a player during a game, which he has done, do they fine/suspend the coach for that because he should be in control of his people?

 

The issue with Bountygate and why it was so harsh has a lot to do with timing and perception. Players and coaches paying each other to violently hurt other people has a far worse public perception than deflating some footballs.

 

Also keep in mind what is occurring during the Bountygate scandal... lawsuits against the NFL for concussions and for the NFL turning a blind eye to health concerns in their organization. Imagine the plaintiffs going to a court and a lawsuit and showing a judge how the NFL lightly punishes people who condone or allow paying to hurt other players... its the kind of thing that could potentially cost the NFL millions of dollars or more.

 

This also excludes the fact that, based on what we've seen now (subject to change pending the investigation of course), the NFL had a TON more evidence in the Bountygate case than they do for this. Right now, they've got deflated footballs. In the Bountygate case, they actually identified the "who" and the "how".

 

I agree that they don't have to prove Belichick has direct knowledge in order to punish him and punish him harshly... but I would think, logically, that they'd have to at least be able to blame somebody. There was a pretty clear paper trail and pretty identifiable parties in the Bountygate case. I haven't seen that yet with this, though it still is early.

[Tank 92]

Lots of quotes about balls in that presser. Yes, I'm immature lol.

 

 

lol   Belicheat started to say yesterday "Tom does what he wants with his bal..(pause)footballs"

[Bruce_Almty]

I would like someone, if they can, to explain the competitive advantage of deflating the ball. Also, ICYMI ... John Brenkus explains

 

http://espn.go.com/espn/sportscience/

[rmcjacket23]

The way Tom Brady and Bill Belichick denied any knowledge of the situation during their press conferences today made me not believe them even more.

 

Here Brady talks about the process through which he picks which footballs he wants to play with, saying that after he picks those balls the following:

 

 

If the report that says the referees performed all of the test on the footballs prior to the game correctly is true, then those balls that Brady chose to be used in the game must have been at at least 12.5 psi prior to the game.  When the referees tested the pressure during halftime, 11 out of 12 were somewhere around 11 psi.  How on earth would Brady have no knowledge of any change in the balls when it is clear that he is so particular about which balls he wants to use?  It seems completely impossible to me that he wouldn't immediately feel the difference in pressure between the ball he approved for the game and the ball that reached his hands after the first snap.

 

As for Belichick, he states the following:

 

 

You're trying to tell me that the referees went and measured the pressure of all twelve New England footballs at halftime (I imagine this is very rarely done), determined that 92% of your balls were illegally under inflated, those balls were replaced by the alternate balls, and the head coach of the team wasn't notified during halftime, during the second half, OR AFTER THE GAME?!?!?

 

Hahahahahaha.  You seriously want me to believe that?  I can't even...

I would generally agree to this, although you'd have to wonder if the officials did or are even required to inform the coaches that they've re-inflated some footballs.

 

In theory, this should be easy to prove if you're the NFL. If Belichick says he didn't know, and the NFL acknowledges that one of their guys told him, then you've got your contradiction.

 

Not sure the NFL would acknowledge this publicly, but they almost certainly would in their investigation.

[rmcjacket23]

I would like someone, if they can, to explain the competitive advantage of deflating the ball. Also, ICYMI ... John Brenkus explains

 

http://espn.go.com/espn/sportscience/

Yeah, you'll here conflicting scientific evidence on both sides. Its clearly easier to catch a softer ball in cold weather, though whether its easier to throw or not is a matter of perspective for the QB.

 

There is the notion that a softer ball will obviously have less velocity and inherently won't travel as far on an identical throw, but I'm sure QBs can negate that.

[A Fish Called Yanda]

I would generally agree to this, although you'd have to wonder if the officials did or are even required to inform the coaches that they've re-inflated some footballs.

 

In theory, this should be easy to prove if you're the NFL. If Belichick says he didn't know, and the NFL acknowledges that one of their guys told him, then you've got your contradiction.

 

Not sure the NFL would acknowledge this publicly, but they almost certainly would in their investigation.

 

I don't know if they are required, or did inform anyone - but you have to imagine that someone on the Patriots staff had to know about it.  I can't believe that its easy for the referees to test 12 balls, then replace them with the 12 alternates, without someone seeing or hearing about it.

 

I also cannot believe that Brady wouldn't have known the difference between the first half balls and the second half balls and didn't mention it to someone.

[rmcjacket23]

What I can't understand, as others have brought up, is what the point of the rule is. It seems logical to either have the NFL be the caretaker of all the footballs and set them at whatever spec they create, or just allow QBs to alter the weight of the ball as they fit. There is no competitive advantage in either scenario that I see.

 

I also find it odd that a 2 PSI variance in the football is considered a gigantic and absurd amount of change to some people, yet based NFL regulations, it allowed to have a 1 PSI variance anyway.

 

So 2 PSI is an outrage but 1 PSI is completely acceptable and legal?

[rmcjacket23]

I don't know if they are required, or did inform anyone - but you have to imagine that someone on the Patriots staff had to know about it.  I can't believe that its easy for the referees to test 12 balls, then replace them with the 12 alternates, without someone seeing or hearing about it.

 

I also cannot believe that Brady wouldn't have known the difference between the first half balls and the second half balls and didn't mention it to someone.

Right, but that's the out isn't it? Somebody on the staff knows, but Belichick and Brady don't know. Feasible, probably unlikely, but who really knows.

 

Can't you kind of see Belichick being the kind of guy who when somebody comes up to him and tells him that the balls have been inflated some, he kind of screams at the guy and tells him something like "why do I care"?

 

I can definitely see that from him...