Brady to Ravens: 'Study the rule book and figure it out'

[Edgar]

Yeah I don't buy the "tarnished legacy" concept either. It might be tarnished of some sort in the eyes of SOME (clearly not all) fans, but how about the NFL itself?

 

Think the HOF cares one bit about this? Brady and Belichick are strolling into the HOF on the very first time they're eligible. That's the legacy.

 

At the end of their careers, they'll look at the records they set, the rings they won, and their induction into Canton. That's the legacy. I doubt they or anybody in the industry defines their legacy by what other teams fans think about them.

This assumes that ones legacy and reputation is constructed solely on the basis of whether a particular facet of their existence is documented in some enshrinement for all to see.

This assumption is a little too simple for me. I'll mention to you one reason and a few examples as to why.

If a visitor to the hall of fame knew nothing about o.j Simpson other than what he did as a player his legacy might very well be intact,

That is until he does a Google search and finds out there is more to the story.

As a Ravens fan I am compelled to admit that Ray Lewis' legacy als bears a blemish regardless of the fact that he too will someday be enshrined.

i might also mention that we are not simply comparing apples to apples as Ray is an indivual and the patriots are an organization that appears to (during the bellichek era) systematically and in a quite calculated and continuous manner, disregard rules of the game of football.

I could go on with more and more examples but I trust you get the point I am putting across without me belaboring it.

[rmcjacket23]

This assumes that ones legacy and reputation is constructed solely on the basis of whether a particular facet of their existence is documented in some enshrinement for all to see.

This assumption is a little too simple for me. I'll mention to you one reason and a few examples as to why.

If a visitor to the hall of fame knew nothing about o.j Simpson other than what he did as a player his legacy might very well be intact,

That is until he does a Google search and finds out there is more to the story.

As a Ravens fan I am compelled to admit that Ray Lewis' legacy als bears a blemish regardless of the fact that he too will someday be enshrined.

i might also mention that we are not simply comparing apples to apples as Ray is an indivual and the patriots are an organization that appears to (during the bellichek era) systematically and in a quite calculated and continuous manner, disregard rules of the game of football.

I could go on with more and more examples but I trust you get the point I am putting across without me belaboring it.

Right, but to counter-point that... think about the levels of examples that you have to provide to show how a legacy goes beyond something like HOF enshrinement. Both examples you provided are essentially murder trials... that's the level we are talking about with those examples.

 

Does anybody really think that the NFL HOF voting or even a reasonable human being, 5-10 years from, is going to really look down upon Tom Brady for deflating some footballs?

 

The way I look at it is... in the epitaph of his career, what sentence does "deflategate" belong in? I can't even see it making the first paragraph.

 

Or, speaking strictly from Brady's perspective... what do you think he cares about? In the end, a persons legacy is essentially whatever that person makes it out to be. In what way does some bloggers not liking what he has done impact his life or legacy in any way?

 

Do I agree that Ray Lewis' "legacy" is blemished by that case? Probably. But remember... its a blemish. A blemish, by definition, is something small or something flawed.

[The Mom Gene]

To be fair, I don't think anyone had ever heard about the tuck rule until it was used in the game against the Raiders. Seems more than a coincidence that it was pulled out then and basically handed the game to the pats allowing them to advance to the SB.   

Absolutely.....  Creating a rule and instituting it are actually two different things...  There are rules on the books that are virtually NEVER upheld...  This became that during that Championship game... 

[beasy2487]

I'm satisfied in knowing that this pretty much solidifies the cultural narrative of the BB/Brady era Patriots as an organization that is not to be admired for its accomplishments.

[RavensMillz]

So a gentleman just called into The Fan to report that Kamar Aiken is the guy whom originally alerted the Ravens about the Patriots using doctored/deflated balls. He said Kamar who was on the Patriots team 2012-2013 told the Ravens about Belicheck putting the balls in the freezer. I cannot recall if the guy elaborated on much else since I was listening at work. However, he did say that he cannot confirm how he received this information. 

[ravensdfan]

So a gentleman just called into The Fan to report that Kamar Aiken is the guy whom originally alerted the Ravens about the Patriots using doctored/deflated balls. He said Kamar who was on the Patriots team 2012-2013 told the Ravens about Belicheck putting the balls in the freezer. I cannot recall if the guy elaborated on much else since I was listening at work. However, he did say that he cannot confirm how he received this information. 

...and the plot thickens.....

[PurpleCity5]

So a gentleman just called into The Fan to report that Kamar Aiken is the guy whom originally alerted the Ravens about the Patriots using doctored/deflated balls. He said Kamar who was on the Patriots team 2012-2013 told the Ravens about Belicheck putting the balls in the freezer. I cannot recall if the guy elaborated on much else since I was listening at work. However, he did say that he cannot confirm how he received this information. 

Where did you hear that from? 

[RavensMillz]

...and the plot thickens.....

 

Exactly. And it makes perfect sense that a former player would know about these practices. The Fan reported earlier that the Ravens team alerted the Colts about doctored balls prior to the AFC championship. The Colts then alerted the league. The league apparently planned to investigate the balls at half time, which is what ended up happening.

[RavensMillz]

Where did you hear that from? 

On 105.7 The Fan. The radio station.

[respecttheRaven]

 https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153157734490809

Parody of the Cialis commercials featuring the New England Patriots. You're headed to the Super Bowl, but your game still feels a little bit flat. Cialis Inflate-a-Ball helps the Patriots avoid hefty fines and loss of draft picks by giving their balls that extra pump for the big game.

[rmcjacket23]

So a gentleman just called into The Fan to report that Kamar Aiken is the guy whom originally alerted the Ravens about the Patriots using doctored/deflated balls. He said Kamar who was on the Patriots team 2012-2013 told the Ravens about Belicheck putting the balls in the freezer. I cannot recall if the guy elaborated on much else since I was listening at work. However, he did say that he cannot confirm how he received this information. 

Just generally speaking, on a scale of 1 to 10, where you would rank the credibility of a local talk show caller (particularly a talk show with a notorious track record of low-educational callers) who provides already-known information from an anonymous source?

 

The scale might not actually be low enough to answer this question...

[PurpleCity5]

On 105.7 The Fan. The radio station.

Wow! I tried looking it up but couldn't find anything. 

[RavensMillz]

Wow! I tried looking it up but couldn't find anything. 

I heard it during the Vinny and Rob broadcast. It was during the last 10 minutes of the show.

[RavensMillz]

Just generally speaking, on a scale of 1 to 10, where you would rank the credibility of a local talk show caller (particularly a talk show with a notorious track record of low-educational callers) who provides already-known information from an anonymous source?

 

The scale might not actually be low enough to answer this question...

 

I only reported what I heard in case someone else was listening and had any comments on it. I don't think ranking the credibility is needed. If I thought it was highly credible I could have created a separate topic for a new discussion.

[berad]

The freezer thing is interesting but they'd have to it after the ref approved them pre-game. Not sure how much it would affect the PSI as opposed to a ball boy letting some air out under direction.

 

Reportedly, the Colts noticed once Jackson intercepted the ball and thought it was flatter than usual.

 

I did notice a weird thing during the game, I think it was right after half-time, on the opening drive of the Patriots. The refs held the game up for a minute or two while they got a new ball. Was that because they, too, felt a noticeable deflation? I turned the game off shortly after that because the Colts couldn't stop anyone, even if they had played with a yoga ball; so I don't know if it happened again. The NFL reportedly did find that 11/12 of the Pats game balls were below the 12.5 - 13.5 PSI accepted level.

[Edgar]

Right, but to counter-point that... think about the levels of examples that you have to provide to show how a legacy goes beyond something like HOF enshrinement. Both examples you provided are essentially murder trials... that's the level we are talking about with those examples.

 

Does anybody really think that the NFL HOF voting or even a reasonable human being, 5-10 years from, is going to really look down upon Tom Brady for deflating some footballs?

 

The way I look at it is... in the epitaph of his career, what sentence does "deflategate" belong in? I can't even see it making the first paragraph.

 

Or, speaking strictly from Brady's perspective... what do you think he cares about? In the end, a persons legacy is essentially whatever that person makes it out to be. In what way does some bloggers not liking what he has done impact his life or legacy in any way?

 

Do I agree that Ray Lewis' "legacy" is blemished by that case? Probably. But remember... its a blemish. A blemish, by definition, is something small or something flawed.

I'm afraid I don't see how brady' perspective is at all pertinent to our conversation. We'd be just as well served discussing how best to poach an egg or whether or not "the grapes of wrath" is truly the great American novel. Actually we could have more of an educated opinion about the egg as Tom Brady's state of mind would most likely call for conjecture. In any case, the two are equally far flung from our conversation and it is best to stay on point.

Whether we use the word,"blemish" as in a blemished legacy as you have done or we refer to the legacy as tarnished we are essentially agreeing--not minding for a moment that introducing semantics into a conversation(as you did) is most often a rather base way of engaging in debate(even a silly one such as ours).

As for oj and Ray being extreme; this is valid on your part but my argument is made nonetheless. If you read the entire diatribe you might have seen that I mentioned it possible to list more examples of public figures with"blemished" legacy who happen to reside in some hallowed hall. I won't do that to this poor horse. You may either take my word for it or ask mr. Google if you find yourself bored.

On a side note: I realize we must call it something but,"---gate" anything is a little tired to my ears.

[berad]

All in all, I think the Patriots will be held accountable with a fine and a loss of draft pick would be palpable - given the Spygate scandal and their warnings for that.

 

Maybe also a fine for Belichick and/or Brady if they ever find out who directed that order.

[rmcjacket23]

To be fair, I don't think anyone had ever heard about the tuck rule until it was used in the game against the Raiders. Seems more than a coincidence that it was pulled out then and basically handed the game to the pats allowing them to advance to the SB.   

Kind of hard to argue its anything more than a coincidence when you consider the circumstances.

 

The rule was only like 3 years old, it had already been used previously that season an on unrelated game, and the Patriots were essentially just another team at the time. Certainly didn't have the national following or conspiracy theories to support anything more than just a coincidence.

 

Could have happened to any team quite frankly, and since then it has.

[Static]

lol @ Belicheck playing dumb. " I dont know about footballs hurr"

 

What a joke. 

[TAPLOOK]

Kind of hard to argue its anything more than a coincidence when you consider the circumstances.

 

The rule was only like 3 years old, it had already been used previously that season an on unrelated game, and the Patriots were essentially just another team at the time. Certainly didn't have the national following or conspiracy theories to support anything more than just a coincidence.

 

Could have happened to any team quite frankly, and since then it has.

 

 

You are correct the Tuck was actually called against the Patriots that very same season.

 

I really don't see much happening to the Patriots over the inflation matter. People are losing their minds over it but cooler heads will prevail at the NFL offices.

[rmcjacket23]

lol @ Belicheck playing dumb. " I dont know about footballs hurr"

 

What a joke. 

Surprisingly, I could see this being the case. Not sure I believe him, but I have no doubt that many, many coaches in this league have absolutely no idea or even care to have an idea of what happens to the footballs.

[rmcjacket23]

You are correct the Tuck was actually called against the Patriots that very same season.

 

I really don't see much happening to the Patriots over the inflation matter. People are losing their minds over it but cooler heads will prevail at the NFL offices.

Was it called against them? I read it was called against Testaverde for the Jets earlier that year, but didn't see anything for the Patriots until then.

 

I know Belichick (of course) said he knew about the rule when it happened.

[TAPLOOK]

lol @ Belicheck playing dumb. " I dont know about footballs hurr"

 

What a joke. 

 

 

I liked it when he said "We never use the condition of the football as an excuse for how we play".

[TAPLOOK]

Was it called against them? I read it was called against Testaverde for the Jets earlier that year, but didn't see anything for the Patriots until then.

 

I know Belichick (of course) said he knew about the rule when it happened.

I'll see if I can find it but I clearly remember it said numerous times after the Oakland game.

[ravensdfan]

And the "let's all get our stories straight " meetings begin...

 

http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2015/01/22/report-tom-brady-tells-teammates-behind-closed-doors-he-prefers-footballs-a-certain-way/

[Marion_Motley]

Yes, it was called against them. Testaverde appeared to have fumbled (the Pats strip-sacked him), but the refs overturned the call because of the Tuck Rule. So it was actually used against the Pats that very same season. A pretty strange coincidence.

 

Go Ravens!

[ravensdfan]

This really just gets better and better....

 

Brady was the driving force behind the rule change in 2006 that allowed visitor teams to provide their own footballs. Prior to that the Home team provided all the footballs.

[rmcjacket23]

This really just gets better and better....

 

Brady was the driving force behind the rule change in 2006 that allowed visitor teams to provide their own footballs. Prior to that the Home team provided all the footballs.

Source?

[Tank 92]

So there goes the rationalization that all QBs do it so it's OK.  He's summarily denying even knowing the balls were deflated.

[allblackraven]

We all know 11 balls have been deflated. Why does NFL Network have "Tom Brady addresses alleged underinflated footballs" in the footnote on Brady's press conference?