Brady to Ravens: 'Study the rule book and figure it out'

[ravensdfan]

In 2011, Brady said he likes deflated footballs.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/brady-said-in-2011-he-likes-deflated-footballs/

[The Raven]

You can't tamper with balls. Just like baseball, there's standards for balls and bats. Pitchers can change shape or hardness of the ball or doctor it up for better grips just like batters have BT standards.

Tampering with the ball FOR A BETTER GRIP IS THE KEY WORD HERE!! When you deflate a ball it allows for a better grip for the qb and anybody handling it as well as better grips for pump fakes and even better velocity. When the ball is softer it is easier to grip and catch as well. A SOFTER FOOTBALL ALLOWS IT TO CONTORT AND SHAPE ITSELF AROUND THE THROWERS RECEIVERS OR CARRIERS HANDS AND FOREARMS AS WELL AS SQUEEZED HARDER MAKING IT TOUGHER TO CAUSE A FUMBLE. Remember the end of the ravens patriots game in foxborogh?? Of course we all do. Remember the fumble that was overturned?? Had it not been overturned the Ravens practically had the game won. A more pumped up harder football would have not have been gripped as tightly by the RB. Like I said the ball when softer contorts and the structure of the ball slightly fits itself around the grip of the ball carrier. A harder football in that cold would have popped out much easier and much sooner than it did. Very likely would likely have popped out sooner as in before the runner was down. The patriots once had fumbling issues and their starting RB benched. Then Blount had fumbling probs as well. Likely one reason to cause Belicheat to deflate the footballs. Their WRs aren't known for great hands. Even Edelman whom has small hands last year was among league leaders in drops.

 

I understand that the rule is the rule. I'm not an idiot. I'm just of the opinion that it's a stupid freaking rule. Why can't each QB inflate the ball as he pleases? I don't see why that's a problem. If everyone can inflate/deflate as desired, it's perfectly fair. It's all a team's preference. I'm not denying that it's a rule. I just think it's a very stupid rule.

[Crabcakes&Football]

Rules are rules and if this is true they broke them, and I'm tired of all the apologists making light of it with juvenile testicle jokes and trying to rationalize it with saying everyone does it. Really. Then why did the colts players find it worth bringing to the coaches attention? Why did the coaches bring it to the officials attention? If this all just commonplace stuff, as innocent as a pitcher scuffing a ball as i heard the jerks on 105.7 compare it to, then why is the league investigating it? They are cheap, sleazy cheaters the whole lot of them from Kraft to Belicheat to Brady. It makes me even more upset over the hybrid pass catching ineligible oline/receiver bs that they pulled. They will not only exploit any loophole they will flat out cheat if they are sure they'll get away with it. They have in the past and that is a fact.

The fair punishment would be a loss if a high draft pick, a multiple game suspension ffor belicheat and a hefty fine. Knowing the the league however, they'll probably explain it away as the weather changing the pressure or faulty equipment and let them off the hook. Or worse, make yet another rule change in favor of their favorite player and allow him to alter his ball to his pleasing, maybe add ergonomic hand grips to accomodate his SMALL hands and weak dainty grip.

[The Raven]

Rules are rules and if this is true they broke them, and I'm tired of all the apologists making light of it with juvenile testicle jokes and trying to rationalize it with saying everyone does it. Really. Then why did the colts players find it worth bringing to the coaches attention? Why did the coaches bring it to the officials attention? If this all just commonplace stuff, as innocent as a pitcher scuffing a ball as i heard the jerks on 105.7 compare it to, then why is the league investigating it? They are cheap, sleazy cheaters the whole lot of them from Kraft to Belicheat to Brady. It makes me even more upset over the hybrid pass catching ineligible oline/receiver bs that they pulled. They will not only exploit any loophole they will flat out cheat if they are sure they'll get away with it. They have in the past and that is a fact.

The fair punishment would be a loss if a high draft pick, a multiple game suspension ffor belicheat and a hefty fine. Knowing the the league however, they'll probably explain it away as the weather changing the pressure or faulty equipment and let them off the hook. Or worse, make yet another rule change in favor of their favorite player and allow him to alter his ball to his pleasing, maybe add ergonomic hand grips to accomodate his SMALL hands and weak dainty grip.

 

Oh, the horror. People are making light of a game by making ball jokes. What a disgrace... Football is serious. Serious time, all the time. No time for jokes, especially not crude ball jokes! You think this is a game?

[Fear_the_Raven]

I am curious about whether the Colts balls were properly inflated or not as the temperature and rain could have been a factor and if their balls were inflated properly, that arguement could be thrown out.

 

Supposedly all the Colts' balls passed inspection.

 

"SPN Sports Radio 810 in Kansas City reported that the Patriots' footballs were tested at the half, reinflated at that time when they were found to be low, then put back in play for the second half, and then tested again after the game. The report did not reveal the results of the test following the game. All of the balls the Colts used met standards, according to the report."

 

http://espn.go.com/boston/story/_/id/12202450/nfl-says-new-england-patriots-had-inflated-footballs-afc-championship-game?ex_cid=sportscenterFB

[DMH_in_WA]

Here's what annoys me with how people are saying this is no big deal, just look at how badly they beat the Colts. Reports are that the Colts complained about this back in November to the NFL after they intercepted two Brady passes and thought the balls were under-inflated. It's probably why they brought it to the leagues attention so fast in the AFCCG, they had experienced it before.

So then, they were using it back in November .. are we to think that they only did this when they had to play the Colts? And if not, then what if they used it against the Ravens in a game they won by the skin of their teeth? Does it make it a more serious matter if this comes out after the Ravens game instead of after the Colts game?

This idea that everybody does it so it makes it okay boggles my mind. Is this Kindergarten? Why is that always the mantra of the Patriots defenders? Why is it that if everybody does it, they're the ones who get caught bending and breaking the rules time and time again?

[DMH_in_WA]

Supposedly all the Colts' balls passed inspection.

Yea, from the report I saw on Fox Sports One, all of the Colts' balls were checked and were properly inflated as were the 12 alternate balls that the Patriots provided. They also reported that the officials checked and certified all the balls before the game as being within regulations which means those 11 balls were altered after the certification.

[Hardbaugh]

Glazer says his sources tell him Ravens tipped off  Colts and possibly the league.

 

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/deflategate-baltimore-ravens-indianapolis-colts-deflated-footballs-012115

 

 

"While the NFL is still investigating and figuring out what direction to go in terms of possible penalties for Bill Belichick and the Patriots in what is being dubbed "Deflategate," many NFL owners, general managers and coaches are tired of the Patriots and are wondering if the league will finally take a hard line."

 

 

 

........The irony is smug Brady told the Ravens to read the rule book....Apparently they did.

[rmcjacket23]

Here's what annoys me with how people are saying this is no big deal, just look at how badly they beat the Colts. Reports are that the Colts complained about this back in November to the NFL after they intercepted two Brady passes and thought the balls were under-inflated. It's probably why they brought it to the leagues attention so fast in the AFCCG, they had experienced it before.

So then, they were using it back in November .. are we to think that they only did this when they had to play the Colts? And if not, then what if they used it against the Ravens in a game they won by the skin of their teeth? Does it make it a more serious matter if this comes out after the Ravens game instead of after the Colts game?

This idea that everybody does it so it makes it okay boggles my mind. Is this Kindergarten? Why is that always the mantra of the Patriots defenders? Why is it that if everybody does it, they're the ones who get caught bending and breaking the rules time and time again?

Well, you are right about one thing...its definitely not kindergarten. In kindergarten, parents teach their kids that "cheating is cheating" and various other absolutes that don't hold up rationally or realistically in the adult world.

 

As a general rule of thumb... I sort of take my cues on how "big a deal" or "not big a deal" a situation is based on how people in that industry and in that line of business react to the situation. Thus far, the number of people who would know these kinds of situations who say this is "no big deal" and "commonplace" far outweighs the people who think its "outrageous" from what I've seen.

 

I get the feeling that people who are actually in the NFL or have been in the NFL sort of look at this like the guy who goes regularly drives 5-10mph over the speed limit in that unanimously recognized "gray area" of the law, and then he kind of eye rolls to himself when he gets pulled over doing 55 in a 50.

 

He knows he technically violated the rules, but he also knows that he and a lot of other people have been doing it since the beginning of time, and he was just the unfortunate one that got caught.

 

For the sake of people who want or expect a harsh punishment... if I were you, I'd hope Belichick was behind this and not Brady. By a lot of the accounts I've read, many former players and coaches don't know why Belichick would even be involved or care about this, and most of said that the QB is essentially 100% responsible for situations like these.

 

If that's the case, expecting Brady to get anything more than a hefty fine seems unreasonable to me. As for Belichick, if they can prove he's involved, he likely faces a stiff punishment, although likely not because of what he actually did. It would more likely be based on his perception of arrogance and always flirting within the "gray area" of the rules.

 

As I said before... the investigation doesn't appear to be over. There's still plenty of scenarios I see where the NFL acknowledges that rules were violated, but can't figure out who did it, in which case you'd likely see some sort of "team" punishment that probably won't be sufficient for the general public anyway.

[K-Dog]

He's already part of the problem whether he knew about it or not...

 

I'm more or less perplexed as to what fans perceive Brady responsibility to be in all of this...

 

Hypothetically, lets say it was Belichick's call to deflate the balls (again, not a fact, just hypthetical). He doesn't tell Tom that he does it, but Tom clearly "knows" based on the feel of the ball.

 

What, as a fan, is your expectation of Brady in that instance? Tell them to inflate the balls? Say nothing?

 

I'm not looking for the optimal answer, because we already know that in a high character, high moral world, everybody plays by the rules all the time and nobody breaks them.

 

I'm asking what fans think a realistic response to that situation is by Brady...

 

You could play the flipside of this also... you've got ex-QBs who say that basically only the QB knows about how much or little the balls are deflated, and that most coaches could simply care less.

 

So then what is Belichick's responsibility in this case? What if he legitimately doesn't know, or even if he does? What is the fans perceived responsibility in this case? Not ideal, realistic.

 

 

By far the deflation of the balls benefits one person above and beyond all, significantly.  The quarterback.   This is Toms doing.  No question in my mind.

[rmcjacket23]

By far the deflation of the balls benefits one person above and beyond all, significantly.  The quarterback.   This is Toms doing.  No question in my mind.

And I generally would agree, and that seems to fall in line with what a lot of people in the industry seem to think.

 

In which case, it's hard for me to see a scenario where a team loses draft picks/cap space for the actions of essentially one individual, and similarly, I don't think it nearly raises to the level of suspension worthy, or at the very least, to suspension level of a SB game. We've seen repeat offenders of stomping and kicking people be suspended for a single game, and Tom wouldn't be considered a repeat offender of anything that I'm aware of.

 

Quite frankly, it may be in the teams best interest to simply throw Tom under the bus on this one (though they won't for obvious reasons).

 

Belichick takes a much bigger hit if he's involved than Brady ever would...

[allblackraven]

By far the deflation of the balls benefits one person above and beyond all, significantly.  The quarterback.   This is Toms doing.  No question in my mind.

 There are significant advantages for receivers and running backs, too.

 

But yes, QB is the only one handling the ball on every snap.

[ravensdfan]

And I generally would agree, and that seems to fall in line with what a lot of people in the industry seem to think.

 

In which case, it's hard for me to see a scenario where a team loses draft picks/cap space for the actions of essentially one individual, and similarly, I don't think it nearly raises to the level of suspension worthy, or at the very least, to suspension level of a SB game. We've seen repeat offenders of stomping and kicking people be suspended for a single game, and Tom wouldn't be considered a repeat offender of anything that I'm aware of.

 

Quite frankly, it may be in the teams best interest to simply throw Tom under the bus on this one (though they won't for obvious reasons).

 

Belichick takes a much bigger hit if he's involved than Brady ever would...

lol

 

The Ravens players noticed it. The Colts players complained about it in November as well. The conclusion is that the Patriots did this every single solitary home game from that information.

 

So, yeah, he IS a repeat offender.

 

Don't think for one second that Brady did something like this without the knowledge of Bellicheat either.

 

Yes, the organization is at fault.

[Tenacious Faulker]

So to throw it bak in Brady's face, I think HE should go back and read the rulebook now.

 

Serioously, what its it with that team and cheating?  Spy-gate?  Illegal formation?  Deflate-gate?  It makes you wonder what else they're doing.  You can tell they've been around together too long when their "greatness" is solved as nothing more than parlor tricks - and not as much "great play".  Ol' "Billy-fairplay" ought to retire before we learn more about his Sith-like manipulations.

[Edgar]

The great loss as I see it is to their reputation and their tarnished legacy. They better hope they manage to win the super bowl or it will truly be open season.

Imagine that most of the world will be now rooting for the Seahawks; How loathsome must the patriots be?

A public drubbing at the hands of the Seahawks might just.be the nail in the coffin for Tom.

[rmcjacket23]

lol

 

The Ravens players noticed it. The Colts players complained about it in November as well. The conclusion is that the Patriots did this every single solitary home game from that information.

 

So, yeah, he IS a repeat offender.

 

Don't think for one second that Brady did something like this without the knowledge of Bellicheat either.

 

Yes, the organization is at fault.

From a fans perspective, sure.

 

Not so sure the NFL is going to treat somebody as a repeat offender without having actual knowledge and proof of them doing it (and no, another team "tipping somebody off" probably doesn't qualify either). Clearly the Ravens weren't that concerned about it at the time, or they would have done something about it during the actual game.

 

Given that I've already seen other QBs in the past say that they did things like this without the knowledge of practically anybody (including the coaches), I don't think its out of the realm of possibility. Doesn't mean it happened that way, but I'm certainly not of the mindset that this is some sort of top-secret, high level conspiracy that the entire Patriots organization was hush, hush about.

[rmcjacket23]

The great loss as I see it is to their reputation and their tarnished legacy. They better hope they manage to win the super bowl or it will truly be open season.

Imagine that most of the world will be now rooting for the Seahawks; How loathsome must the patriots be?

A public drubbing at the hands of the Seahawks might just.be the nail in the coffin for Tom.

Yeah I don't buy the "tarnished legacy" concept either. It might be tarnished of some sort in the eyes of SOME (clearly not all) fans, but how about the NFL itself?

 

Think the HOF cares one bit about this? Brady and Belichick are strolling into the HOF on the very first time they're eligible. That's the legacy.

 

At the end of their careers, they'll look at the records they set, the rings they won, and their induction into Canton. That's the legacy. I doubt they or anybody in the industry defines their legacy by what other teams fans think about them.

[Edgar]

what is particularly damning in my mind is the fact that the balls were tested and found to be acceptable and upon subsequent testing a few hours later were found to be wanting.

It shows a certain cunning premeditation and practiced methodology. It certainly shows that two hours before the game they were quite aware of league regulation and that they were also aware of how to circumvent said regulation between that time and the start of the game.

[sflegend89]

Right back at ya Tom

[FlocksGottaFeed]

DeflateGate. No worries. Goodell is on the case. Article #17 in the rules book.

[gooftroop]

He's already part of the problem whether he knew about it or not...

 

I'm more or less perplexed as to what fans perceive Brady responsibility to be in all of this...

 

Hypothetically, lets say it was Belichick's call to deflate the balls (again, not a fact, just hypthetical). He doesn't tell Tom that he does it, but Tom clearly "knows" based on the feel of the ball.

 

What, as a fan, is your expectation of Brady in that instance? Tell them to inflate the balls? Say nothing?

 

I'm not looking for the optimal answer, because we already know that in a high character, high moral world, everybody plays by the rules all the time and nobody breaks them.

 

I'm asking what fans think a realistic response to that situation is by Brady...

 

You could play the flipside of this also... you've got ex-QBs who say that basically only the QB knows about how much or little the balls are deflated, and that most coaches could simply care less.

 

So then what is Belichick's responsibility in this case? What if he legitimately doesn't know, or even if he does? What is the fans perceived responsibility in this case? Not ideal, realistic.

Do you think some assistant equipment manager is going to screw around with the Pat's footballs on his own?

[allblackraven]

Do you think some assistant equipment manager is going to screw around with the Pat's footballs on his own?

 

Definitely not but will be fired like Kiffin's was.

[1/28/01]

Yeah I don't buy the "tarnished legacy" concept either. It might be tarnished of some sort in the eyes of SOME (clearly not all) fans, but how about the NFL itself?

Think the HOF cares one bit about this? Brady and Belichick are strolling into the HOF on the very first time they're eligible. That's the legacy.

At the end of their careers, they'll look at the records they set, the rings they won, and their induction into Canton. That's the legacy. I doubt they or anybody in the industry defines their legacy by what other teams fans think about them.

I'm sure plenty of fans, players and staff around the league are sick of their crap and what they're constantly trying to pull. How can they not be?

Whether you like to admit, their (Brady, BB and Pats in general) legacy has certainly been altered by the 3 or 4 strikes against them.

[Hardbaugh]

^{Watched a video on ESPN which shows what an advantage the Patriots had.}

 

^{The final score is irrelevant no one knows what the outcome would be without the Patriots cheating.}

 

 

^{Impact Of Underinflated Footballs}

[Chros13]

I was actually discussing this with my dad last night. We are both under the agreement that NFL needs to make an example of the Patriots. Since they concluded that 11 out of the 12 balls were underinflated, then they should be fined and be suspended from post season football next year. Even if they go 16-0, they're suspended and have no chance.

 

NFL needs to make an example or other wise we are going to continue to hear about the Cheatriots.

 

Thoughts?

[rmcjacket23]

I'm sure plenty of fans, players and staff around the league are sick of their crap and what they're constantly trying to pull. How can they not be?

Whether you like to admit, their (Brady, BB and Pats in general) legacy has certainly been altered by the 3 or 4 strikes against them.

Maybe. I'm sure Spygate made a lot of people upset, but its hard to see at this point whether or not anybody internally is truly outraged by this incident.

 

I see basically two strikes, and it has more to do with Belichick than anything else, which is fine, because he's the kind of guy that is difficult to like, and people like to look for reasons to hate people they didn't like to begin with.

 

All of the other stuff like running different formations and all of that other nonesense is mostly just fan stuff.

[MTRavensFan]

He's already part of the problem whether he knew about it or not...

 

I'm more or less perplexed as to what fans perceive Brady responsibility to be in all of this...

 

.

I'm not in the least perplexed.

According to John Madden, the ONLY person who could have been responsible for this is Brady. While it may only be speculation, I have to believe the old guy knows what he's talking about.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/21/john-madden-blame-tom-brady-for-deflated-footballs/

[rmcjacket23]

I was actually discussing this with my dad last night. We are both under the agreement that NFL needs to make an example of the Patriots. Since they concluded that 11 out of the 12 balls were underinflated, then they should be fined and be suspended from post season football next year. Even if they go 16-0, they're suspended and have no chance.

 

NFL needs to make an example or other wise we are going to continue to hear about the Cheatriots.

 

Thoughts?

I don't see it happening. I don't think this nearly rises to the "make an example out of them" level, because nobody can even agree on what impact this incident actually has on anything. I think most people that want to drop the hammer on them are doing so because 1. they're still upset about Spygate and 2. because they speculate that the Patriots have been doing this forever, and therefore want to punish them forever. I have a feeling the NFL doesn't even consider the second concept, because its hard for a business to make punishment judgments based purely on hypotheticals.

 

In actuality, if I'm the league, I'm spending most of my time trying to actually solve the problem (if they actually view this as a problem worth solving) as opposed to attempting to punish (though punishment will obviously happen). Raven actually had a legit argument for me... why not just allow QBs to put as much air in the ball as they want? There can't be a perceived competitive advantage, because the opportunity is there for everyone, and every QB gets to throw whatever ball they want.

 

Or, as common sense would say, the NFL just supplies the balls and everybody plays with the same ball.

[rmcjacket23]

I'm not in the least perplexed.

According to John Madden, the ONLY person who could have been responsible for this is Brady. While it may only be speculation, I have to believe the old guy knows what he's talking about.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/21/john-madden-blame-tom-brady-for-deflated-footballs/

And I agree. The problem is... if you're one of the fans that's in the "harsh punishment" camp, you better hope that the buck goes beyond Brady.

 

Because Brady is as squeaky clean from the leagues standpoint as anybody, and I highly doubt they are going to come down hard on him personally for deflating some footballs. They suspend players 1 game (and then overturn it) for repeatedly stomping on other players, so I don't think this is even going to come close to rising to that level.

[The Mom Gene]

And I agree. The problem is... if you're one of the fans that's in the "harsh punishment" camp, you better hope that the buck goes beyond Brady.

 

Because Brady is as squeaky clean from the leagues standpoint as anybody, and I highly doubt they are going to come down hard on him personally for deflating some footballs. They suspend players 1 game (and then overturn it) for repeatedly stomping on other players, so I don't think this is even going to come close to rising to that level.

I'm one who really doesn't care who did it....  According to the league the team is responsible for the actions of it's players.  Look at last year's mess and the adversity they bestowed on the Ravens...  and now if RR isn't signed the CAP Space hit we'll take.  That being said...  You can IN flate the ball to a max...  which Aaron Rodgers does....  but you CANNOT DE flate it below the minimum, PERIOD... and if you are doing it, then you have an advantage of "better grip"...  As a girl, I can grip an underinflated ball better than a full one.

 

Bellichick should not be allowed to coach the Super Bowl.... and they lose a #1 draft pick... 

 

I'm tired of the Patriot Bovine crap...  Tuck Rule, Brady Rule, Goal Post Rule, Spygate, Funky Formations/Speed Play so as not to allow defenses to compensate...  and now Deflate-Gate???  Come on...  When does it all Stop?