Dick LeBeau

[ravensdfan]

He actually played a lot more off man and zone in the second half, a bad adjustment, but an adjustment nonetheless. Pees tried holding them to field goals. It doesn't matter what coverage you call, because the Patriots will score anyway. Your best bet is holding him to field goals, and that's why Pees called the defense that he did.

 

And sorry, criticizing Pees for rushing Suggs and Doom is the dumbest thing I've ever read, especially since you know damn well you'd be complaining if they weren't rushing. Hypocrite. You complain every game that he's too conservative and now you're suggesting that he should have stopped sending our top pass rushers so we could put them in coverage? That's flat out idiotic.

Oh c'mon. They abandoned the run in the first quarter. They were one dimensional. They went to dink & dunk. You've got to bring guys strong up the middle, not rush 4 sending two on the edges. More McPhee, more Jernnigan. No idea why he didn't try that at all. It would have made sense.

 

The coverages he called were bad decisions and everyone knows it. If he had then adjusted to that failure - then you can say it is personnel. But he doesn't adjust once something fails. He pulls his head into his shell and I guess just prays it will work at some point.

 

This isn't new. This is every single year we have the same issues at defense. Exactly the same issues.

[The Raven]

Oh c'mon. They abandoned the run in the first quarter. They were one dimensional. They went to dink & dunk. You've got to bring guys strong up the middle, not rush 4 sending two on the edges. More McPhee, more Jernnigan. No idea why he didn't try that at all. It would have made sense.

 

The coverages he called were bad decisions and everyone knows it. If he had then adjusted to that failure - then you can say it is personnel. But he doesn't adjust once something fails. He pulls his head into his shell and I guess just prays it will work at some point.

 

If you think sending four against the Patriots is a bad idea, then go ahead and think that. Nobody else in the world would say that.

 

Coverages weren't the best decisions, but I remember two missed tackles from Melvin and Elam that both happened on third down. If we make those tackles and hold them to a FG instead of a TD, we probably win. Think on that please before responding. How many times did we hold them to third down and then miss a tackle? That was the real killer.

 

This game is two things: Blocking and tackling. We didn't tackle well last night and that's why we lost.

[ravensdfan]

If you think sending four against the Patriots is a bad idea, then go ahead and think that. Nobody else in the world would say that.

 

Coverages weren't the best decisions, but I remember two missed tackles from Melvin and Elam that both happened on third down. If we make those tackles and hold them to a FG instead of a TD, we probably win. Think on that please before responding. How many times did we hold them to third down and then miss a tackle? That was the real killer.

 

This game is two things: Blocking and tackling. We didn't tackle well last night and that's why we lost.

Those 2 plays are not why we lost. Zone coverage is one thing - playing 15 yds off when they're obviously going short every play is another. Maybe he needs to get out of the booth and down on the field where he has some handle from the players what is going on.

 

edit: you know, the more I think about it, that is exactly what it is like. He seems to have no real grasp of what is happening down there on the field. Maybe a move back to the sidelines where guys like Suggs, Doom, Webb etc can enlighten him will help.

[The Raven]

Those 2 plays are not why we lost. Zone coverage is one thing - playing 15 yds off when they're obviously going short every play is another. Maybe he needs to get out of the booth and down on the field where he has some handle from the players what is going on.

 

I do hate that he's in the booth. He should be on the field.

 

But those two plays significantly contributed to our loss. TWICE we had a man wrapped up short of the marker on third down, and TWICE he got the first down, and TWICE they scored TDs instead of FGs. We were two third down stops away from winning 31-27. If you're too daft to see that we lost because of those missed tackles then I see no point in continuing this conversation.

[ravensdfan]

I do hate that he's in the booth. He should be on the field.

 

But those two plays significantly contributed to our loss. TWICE we had a man wrapped up short of the marker on third down, and TWICE he got the first down, and TWICE they scored TDs instead of FGs. We were two third down stops away from winning 31-27. If you're too daft to see that we lost because of those missed tackles then I see no point in continuing this conversation.

So the other 27 pts they gave up have no bearing on anything? lol The plays that followed those 2 plays didn't contribute? lol

 

You got in before my edit but I said that it is exactly like he really is disconnected from what is happening on the field. A move to the sidelines where he can talk to some of the players might help.

[The Raven]

So the other 27 pts they gave up have no bearing on anything? lol The plays that followed those 2 plays didn't contribute? lol

 

You got in before my edit but I said that it is exactly like he really is disconnected from what is happening on the field. A move to the sidelines where he can talk to some of the players might help.

 

They do have a bearing on it, but it's the Patriots. They're going to get theirs. We twice had them stopped and let them off the hook. Thank Melvin and Elam for losing the game.

 

And yes, I do think he's disconnected from the players.

[BmoreBird22]

I just cannot believe some of the fans on here. You are asking him to rush more in the beginning of the season, but now you're saying he's dumb because all he knows is, "rush, rush, rush"? Uh, what...?

Oh and trust me, I saw plenty of Jernigan and McPhee up the middle. Pees knew damn well Jernigan, McPhee, Doom, and Suggs gave him the best chance at pressure and he certainly used it. Problem is, players just weren't executing sacks. How many times did the players get into the backfield, get a hand on Brady, but fail to bring him down? I don't know where Brady learned to be Big Ben, but he certainly did his best impression and that's what really killed the Ravens. They got good pressure and hit him, but didn't get sacks.

I also hate how people say he made no adjustments just because it didn't work. Believe it or not, not all adjustments will work. I saw a lot of varied looks with the safeties playing at corner and nickelback, but it's just hard when you have a former UDFA safety starting for the first time this year, a corner straight off another team's Ps who played for three teams this year, and Webb who is anything but solid or consistent. I give Pees a lot of props for the varied looks because he did mix in press man, off man, and zone, but when you're not tackling well, press can be shoddy, especially when they're running lots of slants. Slants are a press man beater, but still, with the way the secondary was tackling, if they played press, a five yard completion would likely go for 30.

Even press wasn't working. Melvin had by far his worst game and he played press more than off. That touchdown was in press.

I just really don't like the argument of Pees getting lots of draft picks and that should equate to success because his front seven has been tremendous, but consider he had one former draft pick of his playing in the secondary

[reed20]

I'd take him over Pees.

[Ravenatic20]

Why on God's green earth is this in "Ravens Talk?"

[arnie_uk]

That's fair. I can agree to the coverages called being bad, but the other criticisms are ridiculous.

what specifically did I say is ridiculous? Or did you mean other people's criticisms

[Gordo52]

Some of the posts regarding this reminds me of what was said about baltimore after the second Pitt game. It's as if people forget the teams play more than once.

Brady had 3tds and 0 ints the first match up with nyj this year. He has had some good games against Rex and nyj. But because brady had a good game against us most recently people will downplay Nyj's issues vs New England and accentuate ours.

Any given sunday. If players consistently miss tackles, it doesn't matter what defense you're running.

[ravensdfan]

Some fans may still think of the Ravens as a defensive team, but the reality is that the Ravens’ defense has been mediocre this season, while their offense and special teams have been playing well to get the team to 5-1. Pees says that if the Ravens want to beat the Texans on Sunday and leave Houston with the best record in the AFC, it’s on the defense to make changes.

 

Patriots fans long will remember how Pees’s defense failed in the red zone the last time he was in the Super Bowl.

Clinging to a 14-10 lead against the Giants in Super Bowl XLII with 39 seconds left, Pees called for an all-out blitz on first down from the 13-yard line that left 5-foot-9-inch cornerback Ellis Hobbs, who was playing with a groin injury, one-on-one against 6-5 Giants receiver Plaxico Burress. The result was an easy game-winning touchdown.

Pees said that was a game-planned call, and he has no regrets about it.

 

If you watched the pats games, you would know that they were a far cry under Pees from the agressive and physical Romeo Crennel led defense. The patriots were not ability to seal the deal against the Colts in 2006 because Pees' defense did not step up when needed the most. Plus of course the Eli Manning drive in the super bowl was again the failure of Pees to get any pressure on the Giants QB.

 

The frustrating part about these plays are that once the Baltimore defenders declare the blitz, and Dalton clearly makes a protection change, there is no counter move. The defenders come as advertised and are routinely picked up.

Dean Pees should have been paying attention to what Cincinnati DC Paul Guenther was doing on the other side, because their disguise was much better…

 

There is a pattern of complaint and failure here by Pees for every single season he has ever been DC in this league. Funny that they're all pretty much the same isn't it? But it isn't Pees.

[Inqui]

Just say no to LeBeau.

(Assuming that's what this thread is still about and hasn't devolved into the season's 10th DC thread)

[darklight1216]

There is a pattern of complaint and failure here by Pees for every single season he has ever been DC in this league. Funny that they're all pretty much the same isn't it? But it isn't Pees.

You make a pretty compelling argument. I'm still not convinced that he's the problem. No one was going to make those dbs succeed. However, it seems clear that he might never be the answer either. He's clearly good enough to win it all with though, so replacing him is almost certainly not a priority.

 

Why on God's green earth is this in "Ravens Talk?"

Because the first post suggests that Baltimore give Lebeau a call.

 

If the Steelers really did urge him to leave, as some have suggested, then that is really all the evidence one needs to demonstrate that he's not the guy for the Ravens either.

[cobrajet]

The guy resigned yesterday because he wants to spend time with his family. I was hoping he would stay because he runs a lot of prevent defense with fourth quarter leads and I think he has hurt the Steelers.

[Gordo52]

The guy resigned yesterday because he wants to spend time with his family. I was hoping he would stay because he runs a lot of prevent defense with fourth quarter leads and I think he has hurt the Steelers.

This should be enough to close thread

[arnie_uk]

This should be enough to close thread

hr actually made it point to say he isn't retiring

[Gordo52]

hr actually made it point to say he isn't retiring

Shhhhhh

[Tenacious Faulker]

LeBeau is done.  He can keep coaching if he wants but he's not longer relevant.  The game'spassed him by.  

 

Pees is far better.  He plays chess.  LeBeau is checkers.  Maybe he can go coach for Rex in Buffalo instead... 

[ravensdfan]

LeBeau is done.  He can keep coaching if he wants but he's not longer relevant.  The game'spassed him by.  

 

Pees is far better.  He plays chess.  LeBeau is checkers.  Maybe he can go coach for Rex in Buffalo instead... 

That fodder in NE was not chess by any means. Pees does not play chess.

 

But, no to LeBeau as well.

[Dfence4champs2052]

Wrong. Just plain wrong. Times Melvin would be off but Webb would be closer to the Los. Please stop exaggerating. Simply put all one has to do is shown ONE play to negate your post.

No, you're wrong. They played 15 yards nearly off the screen the entirety of the game. Try again.

[Tiz]

No, you're wrong. They played 15 yards nearly off the screen the entirety of the game. Try again.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015011000/2014/POST19/ravens@patriots#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap3000000456258&tab=recap

Let's see, first td Melvin was within 5 yards. Now before you dismiss that as being close to the goalline the first td pass Brady threw Melvin was playing bump in lavell and amendiola was in the slot so the db was off.

Feel free to educate yourself.

So again if you want to reclassify your post and say "it seemed like" or "in th second half they were almost always 10 yards back"

I will pretend you were right and your first post didnt exist. If you want to stick to the story you gave despite visible proof it was wrong then I'll continue to point out how wrong and Ignorant your stance has now become...

[FlackAttack]

The guy resigned yesterday because he wants to spend time with his family. I was hoping he would stay because he runs a lot of prevent defense with fourth quarter leads and I think he has hurt the Steelers.

^this. him resigning is actually a bad thing for the ravens. now the steelers will bring in some young stud that will give us problems for many years into the future.

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

This would be interesting.

[Sizzlebshu]

^this. him resigning is actually a bad thing for the ravens. now the steelers will bring in some young stud that will give us problems for many years into the future.

stop the only reason Dick's defenses haven't been better is due to not having a shred of talent under the age of 30 on the roster besides timmons in the last few years. Even still he was able to make them competent and used superior playcalling at the right time to have the defense hold when needed. Seriously the Steelers had no corners this year, 2 decent linebackers (one of them being ancient in harrison, but still good), and a below average d line. Other than Timmons, there were no superior talents on that D (polamalu was injury prone this year and has dropped off, harrison missed about half the year etc...) and it still was average. Talent wise, his D is infinitely worse than the level of play they provided. 

[Tiz]

They moved 15 yards back by the time the ball was snapped. Clearly playing off. Keep trying.

And there's edit #4 to your original post.

Look I'm more than willing to go back and forth with you in discussing plays and players but before we do. Pick a story and stick with it. If you're going to change your story every time you're shown to be wrong it just makes you look foolish.

.so if you want to discuss the numerous ranges the DBs used feel free to. If you're just going to argue against the video shown to you then you're on your own.

[Tiz]

stop the only reason Dick's defenses haven't been better is due to not having a shred of talent under the age of 30 on the roster besides timmons in the last few years. Even still he was able to make them competent and used superior playcalling at the right time to have the defense hold when needed. Seriously the Steelers had no corners this year, 2 decent linebackers (one of them being ancient in harrison, but still good), and a below average d line. Other than Timmons, there were no superior talents on that D (polamalu was injury prone this year and has dropped off, harrison missed about half the year etc...) and it still was average. Talent wise, his D is infinitely worse than the level of play they provided.

This, isn't the steelers cap issues dreadful? Whether its Troy p, Ben roethlisberger or anyone else on that tema longer than 5 years don't they have a habit of just pushing back the dead money and treating it with an "ill just deal with it later" attitude...

[Sizzlebshu]

This, isn't the steelers cap issues dreadful? Whether its Troy p, Ben roethlisberger or anyone else on that tema longer than 5 years don't they have a habit of just pushing back the dead money and treating it with an "ill just deal with it later" attitude...

Tbh, it isn't a bad strategy. It is a matter of simple finance. Even if they keep restructuring to the future, the cap is only going to increase as CBA's go by meaning that these restructures (while looking awful in the immediate) will not have the anticipated effect (see Flacco's contract. As the cap goes up as the years go by that 30 million dollar hit is less of a blow and restructuring some of that to the future is less of a blow.)  

 

That being said, on a year to year basis, it does hurt the team and is probably what is keeping them from having a team that is on par talent wise with the Bengals and the Ravens (the team could be much better if they didn't overpay guys like Cortez Allen and the owner wasn't so sentimental towards his aging stars.) 

[Tiz]

Tbh, it isn't a bad strategy. It is a matter of simple finance. Even if they keep restructuring to the future, the cap is only going to increase as CBA's go by meaning that these restructures (while looking awful in the immediate) will not have the anticipated effect. 

 

That being said, on a year to year basis, it does hurt the team and is probably what is keeping them from having a team that is on par talent wise with the Bengals and the Ravens (the team could be much better if they didn't overpay guys like Cortez Allen and the owner wasn't so sentimental towards his aging stars.)

I agree its not bad for the most part, just not ideal which is why Pitt hasn't had as much success the last few seasons as they expect over there.

I think the rookie cap frees up space for a lot of teams and it does out more emphasis on scouting and drafting well. I also think Ozzie does a great job of knowing what players to let walk and when where as you pointed out Pitt gets too sentimental on that for its own good, lol that said, Pitt please don't ever change....

[Sizzlebshu]

I agree its not bad for the most part, just not ideal which is why Pitt hasn't had as much success the last few seasons as they expect over there.

I think the rookie cap frees up space for a lot of teams and it does out more emphasis on scouting and drafting well. I also think Ozzie does a great job of knowing what players to let walk and when where as you pointed out Pitt gets too sentimental on that for its own good, lol that said, Pitt please don't ever change....

To be fair, I respect Pitt as a franchise for being willing to put its players first and make sure that they retire with the team and have a satisfying end to their careers. It almost never happens anymore.