Turnaround Safety Play

[BMORE_96]

As the season has progressed, our safety play has gotten increasingly better. Going from Elam and Stewart to Miles,Hill,and Stewart I think has led to the resurgence of our defense. Elam and Stewart were so bad that we could not dominate earlier in the season mixed with the injuries at CB. With elam in the box and Hill playing the single high role, we were not getting abused with big plays in the WC game. you also have to credit Hill's presence with helping out Stewart.Miles has been a pleasant surprise as well.

 

All of a sudden, what seemed to be a position that looked pretty bare now has a lot of depth. I have to mention though with an improving(hopefully) elam and brooks in the wings for next season and hill as a surefire resign as an RFA, what do we do with Stewart/Miles?  I'd keep miles for ST play and hope elam or brooks(preferably elam) get a role as starter besides Hill next season. 

[pep_meister]

will hill i hope sticks around for a LONG time.... Jimmy and Hill bring ferociousness to the secondary. If you ask me hill is a top 5 safety easy and probably the number 1 hitter.

[Static]

Darien Stewart got way too much flack all season. He hits hard and he plays the run well. 

 

Also he's been better than Elam all season.

[52N19]

Hill adds to our next generation young defense with williams, mosley, jernigan, jimmy smith, the notre dame DE that went down in minicamp and the DE from Virginia that went down in training camp. if they can make something out of brooks, elam and brown then we are ready for another generation of great defense with very little interruption. 

[rmw10]

It's been so much better.  Will Hill has solidified one of the positions and the Stewart/Miles combo seems to be working pretty well next to Hill.  Stewart has really improved late in the season, while Miles is showing that he has some value other than ST as well.

[ravensnick]

Darien Stewart got way too much flack all season. He hits hard and he plays the run well. 

 

Also he's been better than Elam all season.

That's not traits you look in at FS. Where we had him at the beginning of the season. Life got much better once Hill came in and helped us fix that and we moved Stewart back to SS.

[Kinda_Dante]

Hill at free safety has been what really makes the difference here. If we can get any combination of our other safeties to work out next to him next season like they are doing now we should be fine. We always had a rotating door at strong safety when Reed was here. I'm not putting Will Hill at his level, but he is a very good safety for us.

[Sami84]

Will hill is awesome. If he had stayed out of trouble last year he would have been ranked the best fs in the league. He was ranked number 3. Hes the number 5 ranked fs right now and if he had played the full season could easily have been ranked number 1 or 2.

[Sami84]

Correction. He was the 2nd ranked fs last year. He is currently the 3rd ranked fs this year.

[Static]

That's not traits you look in at FS. Where we had him at the beginning of the season. Life got much better once Hill came in and helped us fix that and we moved Stewart back to SS.

 

Elam got the excuse about playing out of position why not Stewart?

[ravensnick]

Elam got the excuse about playing out of position why not Stewart?

Exactly. Like I said, his play got a ton better when he moved back to SS.

[blitzking33]

Will hill is awesome. If he had stayed out of trouble last year he would have been ranked the best fs in the league. He was ranked number 3. Hes the number 5 ranked fs right now and if he had played the full season could easily have been ranked number 1 or 2.

Aren't you glad he didn't stay out of trouble last year? I sure am.

[Guest]

all I know is that its not the train wreck back there many analysts and prognosticators believe it to be

 

this may surprise some folks

[hn68wb4]

I think a lot of the turnaround has to do with Melvin stabilizing the other CB position across from Webb (along with Webb's improving play), with the CBs stabilized the safeties were able to roam a bit and weren't consistently trying to make up for Franks and Chykie. To me Melvin probably saved our secondary, not from being a lock down corner or anything but being good enough to handle a WR on his own to allow the safeties to do their thing. That along with the addition of Will Hill locking down the FS position and finding the right combination of guys beside him is responsible for the turnaround 

[BmoreBird22]

Correction. He was the 2nd ranked fs last year. He is currently the 3rd ranked fs this year.

So, wait, you're telling me a guy who didn't even start until the second Pitt game is the third ranked FS in the league? I can't believe some people on here had no hopes for what he'd do for the team and even questioned if he'd start.

The scary thing is, I think he'd be better if he were in that SS/hybrid role. Hopefully Brooks can push him there next year

[beasy2487]

So, wait, you're telling me a guy who didn't even start until the second Pitt game is the third ranked FS in the league? I can't believe some people on here had no hopes for what he'd do for the team and even questioned if he'd start.

The scary thing is, I think he'd be better if he were in that SS/hybrid role. Hopefully Brooks can push him there next year

 

I think it's more likely that Elam grows into the SS role and Hill stays at FS. Brooks' best opportunity for PT in the Hill era is going to be in Nickel and Dime.

[BmoreBird22]

I think it's more likely that Elam grows into the SS role and Hill stays at FS. Brooks' best opportunity for PT in the Hill era is going to be in Nickel and Dime.

As good as Hill is, deep coverage isn't hiss strong suit and Brooks extremely good range. I think Elam is finding a niche as a nickel corner and it likely could be his role for the rest of his tenure in Baltimore

[beasy2487]

As good as Hill is, deep coverage isn't hiss strong suit and Brooks extremely good range. I think Elam is finding a niche as a nickel corner and it likely could be his role for the rest of his tenure in Baltimore

If Elam doesn't develop, sure. But Elam's ceiling as an SS (in my opinion) is at least as high as Brooks' as a FS. Given that Hill has been a FS his entire career (dating back to college), I just don't see Brooks pushing him off that spot unless Elam doesn't develop into the SS he can be. If he doesn't, I'm all for going with the two best guys--assuming in this case that they are Hill and Brooks--but if he(Elam) does...I think Brooks ends up kinda waiting in the wings and focusing on coverage.

[RaineV1]

I think it's more likely that Elam grows into the SS role and Hill stays at FS. Brooks' best opportunity for PT in the Hill era is going to be in Nickel and Dime.

I have to disagree. Hill is a much better SS than FS. He doesn't have the range you normally want in a FS. Elam on the other hand seems to be better a nickle than true SS, where he can blitz and help against quick passes more. So, Brooks at FS, Hill at SS, and Elam at nickle seems like the best combination going forward.

[beasy2487]

I have to disagree. Hill is a much better SS than FS. He doesn't have the range you normally want in a FS. Elam on the other hand seems to be better a nickle than true SS, where he can blitz and help against quick passes more. So, Brooks at FS, Hill at SS, and Elam at nickle seems like the best combination going forward.

 

My only question is, what empirical wisdom are you basing your judgments on? Do you mean to say "in my opinion" he does not have ideal range and is much better at Strong than Free? Both you and BmoreBird have stated that as though it is a fact. Are you watching practice? Are you watching drills? I'm confused. The only evidence I have regarding the position he plays is the position he's always played. He's always been a Free Safety. Why hasn't he been converted by the people that watch him play every day? It would be one thing if he was a natural Strong Safety that was filling in at Free for us because of a lack of depth...but he's always played free, where ever he's been--Florida (where he was an All-SEC selection at the position in '08, for the Giants where he was playing at a top 5 level, and now for us). If he is much better at Strong, as you say, and he was playing at a top 5 level at Free...are we sitting on the JJ Watt of Strong Safeties...blissfully unaware???

 

So again I ask, where are you getting this irrefutable factual evidence...or is it just, as my view is, an opinion?

[The Raven]

My only question is, what empirical wisdom are you basing your judgments on? Do you mean to say "in my opinion" he does not have ideal range and is much better at Strong than Free? Both you and BmoreBird have stated that as though it is a fact. Are you watching practice? Are you watching drills? I'm confused. The only evidence I have regarding the position he plays is the position he's always played. He's always been a Free Safety. Why hasn't he been converted by the people that watch him play every day? It would be one thing if he was a natural Strong Safety that was filling in at Free for us because of a lack of depth...but he's always played free, where ever he's been--Florida (where he was an All-SEC selection at the position in '08, for the Giants where he was playing at a top 5 level, and now for us). If he is much better at Strong, as you say, and he was playing at a top 5 level at Free...are we sitting on the JJ Watt of Strong Safeties...blissfully unaware???

 

So again I ask, where are you getting this irrefutable factual evidence...or is it just, as my view is, an opinion?

 

I agree with them. Hill doesn't have the best range. But, his range is "good enough" for FS. Brooks has even better range, and I think that's the point the're making.

[rmw10]

While Hill has the SS body type and skill set, I think he has more than impressive range at FS considering his size.  However, as some have already stated, if you can find a true FS with incredible range, I think you'd be getting the best out of Hill.  If that doesn't happen though, I'm more than happy to roll with Hill back at FS next year and for the foreseeable future.  I like the idea of moving him to SS because it gives us a versatile safety that can be the missile around the LOS or he can drop back and play single high as well.  Hill has tremendous value in that he can play either role and play it well.  As long as he's done with being a knucklehead, we got a steal.

[Kinda_Dante]

From what I've seen Brooks is faster but Hill knows how to play the ball better, so in my opinion i think that makes Hill the better FS because on top of playing the position his entire career like beasy said he actually knows how to make plays on the ball. I would love to see Hill playing alongside an Elam that actually starts to reach the potential for his talent, with Elam maybe dropping into nickel and Hill and Brooks being the two high safeties on obvious passing downs.

[BmoreBird22]

If Elam doesn't develop, sure. But Elam's ceiling as an SS (in my opinion) is at least as high as Brooks' as a FS. Given that Hill has been a FS his entire career (dating back to college), I just don't see Brooks pushing him off that spot unless Elam doesn't develop into the SS he can be. If he doesn't, I'm all for going with the two best guys--assuming in this case that they are Hill and Brooks--but if he(Elam) does...I think Brooks ends up kinda waiting in the wings and focusing on coverage.

If you watch games, you can see his range isn't always there, or his instincts with where to flow, or the angles he takes in regard to covering deep. It's just not ideal. Honestly, a label means very little. We could say Terrell Suggs is a DT, but that doesn't mean a thing. If you want a more reasonable example, Brooks was classified as having played more games at SS in his senior season than FS, but his responsibility was in deep coverage where he could use his range and athleticism to get to the deep ball.

If you watched the way the Giants used Hill, it was as a hybrid. He played some deep, like how he does for the Ravens, but he played a lot up closer where he could blow up runs, screens, and intermediate passes.

[beasy2487]

If you watch games, you can see his range isn't always there, or his instincts with where to flow, or the angles he takes in regard to covering deep. It's just not ideal. Honestly, a label means very little. We could say Terrell Suggs is a DT, but that doesn't mean a thing. If you want a more reasonable example, Brooks was classified as having played more games at SS in his senior season than FS, but his responsibility was in deep coverage where he could use his range and athleticism to get to the deep ball.

If you watched the way the Giants used Hill, it was as a hybrid. He played some deep, like how he does for the Ravens, but he played a lot up closer where he could blow up runs, screens, and intermediate passes.

 

We could not say Suggs is a DT. We could say he is an OLB/DE hybrid, which he is. A better example would be McPhee, but even still. The question is not, "Is Brooks a better pure FS than Hill?" Rather it's, "Is Brooks a better player than Elam?" As it stands now, neither of them has proven (from a fan perspective) to be better. At least not to my satisfaction.

 

My argument is that if Elam is better, Hill stays at FS and Elam takes SS. If Brooks is better, Hill slides to SS and Brooks becomes the FS. It's a great position to be in, but unless you're breaking down the All-22 and watching practice film, I really can't see how a fan has enough evidence to conclusively make any judgements about Brooks' ability with respect to Hill's. Hill has played FS at high level in this league, you can say the title is a technicality but the fact remains the same. Brooks has not.

[Alexir]

The guys who deserve to play are being played. Will Hill has been a force. Stewart was great last week.

[BmoreBird22]

We could not say Suggs is a DT. We could say he is an OLB/DE hybrid, which he is. A better example would be McPhee, but even still. The question is not, "Is Brooks a better pure FS than Hill?" Rather it's, "Is Brooks a better player than Elam?" As it stands now, neither of them has proven (from a fan perspective) to be better. At least not to my satisfaction.

 

My argument is that if Elam is better, Hill stays at FS and Elam takes SS. If Brooks is better, Hill slides to SS and Brooks becomes the FS. It's a great position to be in, but unless you're breaking down the All-22 and watching practice film, I really can't see how a fan has enough evidence to conclusively make any judgements about Brooks' ability with respect to Hill's. Hill has played FS at high level in this league, you can say the title is a technicality but the fact remains the same. Brooks has not.

I'm not saying Brooks is ready to take over FS, yet. I think he's a good player with a lot of promise, but he's got a lot of nuances to learn. I'm saying best case scenario is we put Hill at SS and Brooks at FS because Hill could be the best SS in the league and easily the best coverage SS

[beasy2487]

I'm not saying Brooks is ready to take over FS, yet. I think he's a good player with a lot of promise, but he's got a lot of nuances to learn. I'm saying best case scenario is we put Hill at SS and Brooks at FS because Hill could be the best SS in the league and easily the best coverage SS

 

That's fair and I agree that the best scenario for our team would be for Brooks to be good enough at FS that we can put Hill at SS and use Elam in Nickel and Dime or trade him and keep Miles/Levine for those roles. I'm just not sure that Brooks' best at FS will be better than Elam's best at SS and I want to see the best two back there. Time will tell.

[Bruce_Almty]

Kudos go to Dean Pees this season; he's had to mix and match players to situations, scheme, think outside the box. He has not pigeon-holed players as FS or SS by some old-school defination but, thru trial and error, practice & game situations, has found player-combos that work to thwart offenses. Many of his players have sufficient versatility to allow him to move them where they are needed. So kudos to Dean for cobbling together our backend.

 

PS and props to Spags for his DB coaching.

[aquelenelson]

I think that Brooks hasn't showed enough to be a starter next season, he needs a lot of development.

I hope we keep Hill at FS and Elam improves enough to be the starter SS.

 

I just don't like Stewart, really. He played [profanity deleted] coverage all season, missed lots of tackles. I can't remember how many times I shouted at him during this season. Yeah, he played well against the Steelers, gives a lot of hard hits, ok, but that doesn't erase all the mistakes he has made during the season.

 

In my humble opinion, we keep Hill, Elam, Brooks and Miles. Stewart must go.