Joe Flacco to the HoF?

[beanfigger]

Well I know not all the QB's in the HOF have the stats but you also have to think about the era of football they played in now we have QB's that throw for 5,000 yards a season so most people want QB's to throw for 4,000 at least. Now I agree with you that wins and post season success should be enough but because of what people expect out of QB's now a days I don't know if it will be.

I knew someone would bring up era after my post, but QBs are in the Hall without even measuring up to their contemporaries. There is a bias towards players from teams that are considered the best of their era. That's why Griese made it after leading an undefeated Dolphins team even though he hardly ever threw the ball and his stats were much lower than even the best players during the 70s.

[beanfigger]

Which one's, specifically, don't have great stats?

And of those... which played in an era that is designed for huge stats?

You can talk about era all you want when comparing players all time to each other, but Namath, Griese, Bradshaw, etc. didn't even have stats that put them at or near the top of their comtemporaries. I don't expect them to measure up to Marino and Favre, but they didn't even measure up to Tarkenton, Unitas, Lamonica, and others who played when they played. What was the reason they got in? They are champions. One Superbowl isn't enough for Joe to make it with subpar stats, but I think two is. Three absolutely is enough.

[beanfigger]

I don't disagree. I think he should go, but I can see the other side of the argument claiming that winning three Super Bowls isn't impressive enough. There is debate that surrounds Eli and Ben whether they should be considered HoF candidates.

I just don't think it's guaranteed either way. I don't agree with it but Flacco gets very little recognition from people in the media already, so I'm not sure he will even with a few rings. It's also hard considering the time in which he's playing.

I doubt they'll be much debate about Ben when he's done. Eli is unique because he won twice but has ZERO playoff wins his entire career outside of those two seasons. He needs the stats more than Ben and Joe (as long as Joe gets another one or two).

Also, Ben is now getting the stats, so he may not even be in this discussion for long.

[Dfence4champs2052]

With time and consistently he'll be in there. Especially if he wins multiple SBs.

[Kinda_Dante]

Wasn't Namath the first QB to throw fro 4,000 yards? 

[beanfigger]

Wasn't Namath the first QB to throw fro 4,000 yards?

His career high season of 4007 yards (while in the AFL) is by far his career high. He also threw 28 picks that year, and throwing more picks than TDs happened almost every season of his career, and his career high for completion percentage is like 52% for a season.

[rmcjacket23]

You can talk about era all you want when comparing players all time to each other, but Namath, Griese, Bradshaw, etc. didn't even have stats that put them at or near the top of their comtemporaries. I don't expect them to measure up to Marino and Favre, but they didn't even measure up to Tarkenton, Unitas, Lamonica, and others who played when they played. What was the reason they got in? They are champions. One Superbowl isn't enough for Joe to make it with subpar stats, but I think two is. Three absolutely is enough.

And that's true.

 

The problem is... there's no guaranteeing that what is considered a HOF QB now is going to be compared to what was considered a HOF QB 30-40 years ago. Frankly, if you put Joe's stats up against even Unitas, Joe's likely to exceed anything Unitas ever did statistically, because his stats weren't that great to begin with.

 

But that's the problem... when its Joe's time to come up for voting, he's going to be in a group with some other players with pretty good stats and probably pretty good postseason resumes as well.

 

While I don't know exactly what HOF voters are looking at when they vote, I doubt they straight up compare 2014 players to 1974 players. If you did that, both at a statistical level and at a "winning" level, then you've probably got 8-10 guys playing in the league at this very moment that are HOF QBs.

[Kinda_Dante]

His career high season of 4007 yards (while in the AFL) is by far his career high. He also threw 28 picks that year, and throwing more picks than TDs happened almost every season of his career, and his career high for completion percentage is like 52% for a season.

Oh alright, well like I said wins are all that should matter but i believe it will take more than just that for Flacco to be a HOFer. If he does however win 3 Super Bowls I don't think much else will matter you pretty much have to put him in at that point, but besides that i still think he would need some more of those accolades to be able to get in. A lot of it has to do with us also being a small market team, for as much as we win we don't get nearly as much attention as other teams and i think that will hurt him. As unfair as that is I think that's just the way it works out, because we don't get attention neither does Flacco.

[rmcjacket23]

His career high season of 4007 yards (while in the AFL) is by far his career high. He also threw 28 picks that year, and throwing more picks than TDs happened almost every season of his career, and his career high for completion percentage is like 52% for a season.

Right, and if you really go back into the 70s or even 80s, everyone is going to be highly unimpressed with what they saw statistically from QBs.

 

Johnny U, renowned as one of the greatest QBs of all time, would probably be benched for ineffectiveness in today's game given his previous stats.

 

He threw 20+ INTs (in 14 game seasons) 5 times in his career (including three straight seasons). He never once completed 60% of his passes in a season (basically the minimum percentage for acceptable QB play in the modern era), and the highest yards/game average he ever had was 258 (Joe averaged about 250 this season).

 

In fact, in 1967 he was named NFL MVP. In that season, he completed 58.5%, averaged 245 yards per game, with 20 TDs and 16 INTs. Flacco had better numbers across the board this very season, and he won't even get a single vote for MVP honors.

 

There was just a much different measurement and perception of QBs back then, and I don't think it has a lot of bearing on how QBs are perceived today when it comes to the HOF.

[beanfigger]

And that's true.

The problem is... there's no guaranteeing that what is considered a HOF QB now is going to be compared to what was considered a HOF QB 30-40 years ago. Frankly, if you put Joe's stats up against even Unitas, Joe's likely to exceed anything Unitas ever did statistically, because his stats weren't that great to begin with.

But that's the problem... when its Joe's time to come up for voting, he's going to be in a group with some other players with pretty good stats and probably pretty good postseason resumes as well.

While I don't know exactly what HOF voters are looking at when they vote, I doubt they straight up compare 2014 players to 1974 players. If you did that, both at a statistical level and at a "winning" level, then you've probably got 8-10 guys playing in the league at this very moment that are HOF QBs.

I'm not trying to compare stats between eras. My point is that the Hall weighs winning more than, say, pro bowl voters, who go with stats. I still think if Joe wins another ring, he'll be closer to the Hall than players with better stats who didn't win, like Bledsoe and McNabb. Three wins and it's a guarantee.

[beanfigger]

Oh alright, well like I said wins are all that should matter but i believe it will take more than just that for Flacco to be a HOFer. If he does however win 3 Super Bowls I don't think much else will matter you pretty much have to put him in at that point, but besides that i still think he would need some more of those accolades to be able to get in. A lot of it has to do with us also being a small market team, for as much as we win we don't get nearly as much attention as other teams and i think that will hurt him. As unfair as that is I think that's just the way it works out, because we don't get attention neither does Flacco.

I'm saying I think winning is factored more heavily for Hall of Fame voters. Two puts him very close to a lock, assuming he moves up the ranks of all time performers and winners in the playoffs like he seems primed to do. Three, like you said, makes it a guarantee.

[Alexir]

How bout he goes to the Pro Bowl before we Saw HoF...

[ellicottraven]

The media (voters) will make it awfully hard for Joe to get in no matter what he does. The bottom line is HOF is a popularity contest after everything is said and done. If it's a popular player, then the media will manufacture the stats to get that player in. If not, they will ignore the relevant stats that matter to make sure he doesn't. I believe unless Joe wins a couple more SBs and puts up monster stats in the playoffs, I can't see it happening... sadly.

[Guest I-70WestRaven]

Whoa, it's way to early to even be talking about the Hall for Joe. This should not even be discussed until after he retires .You  would have to take into account his entire body of work. To try to call it now is to try to predict the future and no one can honestly do that.

[berad]

All I know is that I don't want people like Mike Florio, Gregg Rosenthal, Dan Hanzus, Dave Dameshek, Adam Rank, Jeffri Chadiha, Ashley Fox, whatever clown is writing a column this week, etc having an HOF vote in any shape or form.

[1/28/01]

All I know is that I don't want people like Mike Florio, Gregg Rosenthal, Dan Hanzus, Dave Dameshek, Adam Rank, Jeffri Chadiha, Ashley Fox, whatever clown is writing a column this week, etc having an HOF vote in any shape or form.

Nor would I want them, or anyone else for that matter, reading this thread

[rmcjacket23]

All I know is that I don't want people like Mike Florio, Gregg Rosenthal, Dan Hanzus, Dave Dameshek, Adam Rank, Jeffri Chadiha, Ashley Fox, whatever clown is writing a column this week, etc having an HOF vote in any shape or form.

List of voters can be found here...

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/selectionprocess.aspx

 

Basically, every team has a "local beatwriter" who's on the committee, and then there's a bunch of "at large" voters, mostly national writers and analysts.

 

Scott Garceau is the resident Baltimore committee member, and some of the other national writers on the committee include John Clayton, Sal Paolantonio and Peter King, amongst others.

[callahan09]

Whoa, it's way to early to even be talking about the Hall for Joe. This should not even be discussed until after he retires .You  would have to take into account his entire body of work. To try to call it now is to try to predict the future and no one can honestly do that.

Absolutely, you can't say he's a hall of famer now.  The story is still being written, and if it ended today, obviously it's not enough to be a HOF career right now.  I think it's just fun for people to talk about from a hypothetical point of view, no harm in it.  I think the key is, if Flacco repeated these 7 years for 7 more years, identical in every way, that's got to be considered a hall of famer, right?  20+ post-season wins, 160+ total wins, multiple Super Bowls, 200+ consecutive game streak, 50,000+ passing yards, etc.  You're talking about rarefied company there, but of course, this is all meaningless unless you puts up, and frankly, that's probably not likely, because the kind of stuff we've seen over the last 7 years, a lot of it is stuff that's either never happened or almost never happens in NFL history, so to expect a repetition of it, that's probably not something we should count on as fans.

[ellicottraven]

All I know is that I don't want people like Mike Florio, Gregg Rosenthal, Dan Hanzus, Dave Dameshek, Adam Rank, Jeffri Chadiha, Ashley Fox, whatever clown is writing a column this week, etc having an HOF vote in any shape or form.

Chadiha has no credibility and Rosenhal looks like a kid who just got off his braces. As for Dameshek, even the mirror tells him every morning he is an idiot. As much as I dislike Fox, I think she has a good shot at having a vote alongwith Florio ( who is influential I understand)

[Guest I-70WestRaven]

Absolutely, you can't say he's a hall of famer now.  The story is still being written, and if it ended today, obviously it's not enough to be a HOF career right now.  I think it's just fun for people to talk about from a hypothetical point of view, no harm in it.  I think the key is, if Flacco repeated these 7 years for 7 more years, identical in every way, that's got to be considered a hall of famer, right?  20+ post-season wins, 160+ total wins, multiple Super Bowls, 200+ consecutive game streak, 50,000+ passing yards, etc.  You're talking about rarefied company there, but of course, this is all meaningless unless you puts up, and frankly, that's probably not likely, because the kind of stuff we've seen over the last 7 years, a lot of it is stuff that's either never happened or almost never happens in NFL history, so to expect a repetition of it, that's probably not something we should count on as fans.

Exactly,well put my friend!

[The Raven]

Let me preface this by saying it's too early to have this discussion.

 

Now, here's what I think. If he keeps up this level of performance and gets at least one more ring over the next seven years, I think he's a second ballot guy. He's just entering his prime. While most positions hit their prime at 27, recent history shows that quarterbacks tend to hit their prime around 30. Joe Flacco turns 30 this month. I think he can do it.

 

Also, Flacco's status as a HOFer depends heavily on what other quarterbacks retire in the same year he does. Ultimately, if we assume Flacco's performance improves next season and then remains constant, the only thing keeping him out, in my opinion, would be other quarterbacks.

[beanfigger]

As with everything, the haters are the loudest, but I'm starting to feel as though the general consensus is not hate against Joe, even though we all like to think that way.

[cushrinada1986]

He has been in the playoffs 6 of the 7 seasons he has been in the league.

 

He has more road wins and more overall Playoff wins then Brady, Manning, and Bress, all future HOF's.

 

He the same amount of rings as Peyton.

 

Outside of Probowls and MVP's, if either Luck or Ryan had these types of numbers coming out of college, they would already be calling them to canton. I think if anything, Flacco in the next 5 season will prove that not only does he belong in the hall but he could end up know as one of the most clutch QB's of all time.

[allblackraven]

All I know is that I don't want people like Mike Florio, Gregg Rosenthal, Dan Hanzus, Dave Dameshek, Adam Rank, Jeffri Chadiha, Ashley Fox, whatever clown is writing a column this week, etc having an HOF vote in any shape or form.

Lol, that's quite a list you put together. HoF almost.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

I think Flacco should be in the Hall of Fame regardless of how the rest of his career goes. 

 

He's broken so many records already that his legacy should be remembered. Even if hes not remembered among the greatest qbs of all time, he should be remembered as probably the best, most clutch, winningest QB of all time in his first 7 years which is even more amazing considering the quality of QB's he's had to beat in the postseason during this early stretch of his career.

 

To me the HoF should be for remembering great feats and accomplishments, not simply the greatest players. 

 

I mean if you're writing the story of the NFL, the Ravens are one of the most interesting chapters and Joe's a huge part of it.

 

--

 

Like if Billy Cundiff randomly kicked a 70 yd FG, he should get in for that.

[redrum52]

Whoa...

[PeRK82]

So, my brother brought this up the other day when I saw him. He's a big Falcons fan, so you know the whole Ryan and Flacco debate, but he just goes, "Did you watch the Ravens-Steelers game? Yeah, Harbaugh and Flacco are going to the HoF for sure."

At first I kinda just smiled, but then I saw this and it's adding a little bit of discussion, for me, to see two separate people say it. Here's an article from RSR (one of the only good writers):

People really like to say Flacco's Super Bowl run was a fluke, but since 2010, he's been downright dominant in the playoffs. He's just great in the playoffs. I think yes 7-2 since 2010, which I don't think this article mentions.

I think if he wins it again, you have to add him to that discussion

 If he has the same exact run, then prob. a good discussion. But if say he were to win 3 SB with that kind of run. Then HOF definitely without the need for a discussion.  The person that would disagree would actually look like the idiot honestly.  

What bothers me more than anything is im always hearing the A.Luck card, crowning as a HOF and there is, honestly, NO legitimate argument to why people think he should. IMO he hasnt done Anything at all to make people think that. I will admit that he is a above average qb but that is it. Anything else is pushing it. Ive seen plenty of games to not make me think other wise. Ive actually seen him play more bad games than good.  So sick of hearing the NO RUSHING game card also, thats their own dam fault honestly.

[PeRK82]

He has been in the playoffs 6 of the 7 seasons he has been in the league.

 

He has more road wins and more overall Playoff wins then Brady, Manning, and Bress, all future HOF's.

 

He the same amount of rings as Peyton.

 

Outside of Probowls and MVP's, if either Luck or Ryan had these types of numbers coming out of college, they would already be calling them to canton. I think if anything, Flacco in the next 5 season will prove that not only does he belong in the hall but he could end up know as one of the most clutch QB's of all time.

lol they already are. LOL Disgusting isnt it.

[berad]

List of voters can be found here...

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/selectionprocess.aspx

 

Basically, every team has a "local beatwriter" who's on the committee, and then there's a bunch of "at large" voters, mostly national writers and analysts.

 

Scott Garceau is the resident Baltimore committee member, and some of the other national writers on the committee include John Clayton, Sal Paolantonio and Peter King, amongst others.

 

Darin Gantt has a vote - save us all! I know, generally, only veteran 'respected' media members get the honor of voting but who is the next generation of them? We need more Aaron Wilsons and less Gregg Rosenthals.

[berad]

Lol, that's quite a list you put together. HoF almost.

 

HOF of stank!