Joe Flacco to the HoF?

[BmoreBird22]

So, my brother brought this up the other day when I saw him. He's a big Falcons fan, so you know the whole Ryan and Flacco debate, but he just goes, "Did you watch the Ravens-Steelers game? Yeah, Harbaugh and Flacco are going to the HoF for sure."

At first I kinda just smiled, but then I saw this and it's adding a little bit of discussion, for me, to see two separate people say it. Here's an article from RSR (one of the only good writers):

People really like to say Flacco's Super Bowl run was a fluke, but since 2010, he's been downright dominant in the playoffs. He's just great in the playoffs. I think yes 7-2 since 2010, which I don't think this article mentions.

I think if he wins it again, you have to add him to that discussion

[BmoreBird22]

http://russellstreetreport.com/2015/01/07/filmstudy/flacco-knocking-door-hof/

[arnie_uk]

Farrrrr to early

[rmcjacket23]

Obviously far too early for this discussion.

 

Generally speaking, probably going to need to pad his stats significantly to get in. Unlike fans, HOF voters don't just focus on wins and SB victories.

 

Eli is likely to retire first, and so if he doesn't get in, Flacco probably won't.

[GrimCoconut]

I'm not sure he will even if he wins three. We all know first hand that Flacco gets little respect nationwide. I think he'll need to win an MVP or few, go to quite a few Pro Bowls, get an OPOY award.

[darklight1216]

I remember when everyone swore Flacco was and never would be anything other than average. I'm not sure if he'll make it oe not, but I love that's even being discussed.

[rmcjacket23]

I remember when everyone swore Flacco was and never would be anything other than average. I'm not sure if he'll make it oe not, but I love that's even being discussed.

The funniest thing is that less than two months ago there were fans talking about ways to get rid of him so we can find a "real" QB.

[The Mom Gene]

---^  THAT

[berad]

Very early, only his 7th year in the league and he hasn't distinguished himself as that top tier where anyone would be comfortable saying 'heck yeah, he's in' like Ray or Ed.

[rmcjacket23]

Generally speaking, if you have to debate whether a player in any sport should be in the HOF or not, the answer is usually no.

 

You don't see any threads asking if Ray or Ed are going to the HOF, because everybody already knows the answer.

[PurpleCity5]

Football history has to be written with you. I think Joe can get there but he'll need some accolades. I think in the future he will get them, few Pro Bowls/All-Pro awards and at least another SB and he'll get there.

 

Remember people, they're calling Eli Manning a Hall Of Famer.

[Tank 92]

I remember when everyone swore Flacco was and never would be anything other than average. I'm not sure if he'll make it oe not, but I love that's even being discussed.

 

 

well, not everyone.

 

It's obviously way to early to discuss the possibility, but you would have to say that he is racking up the records and laying a foundation.

[Mt. Crushmore]

Too early

[Kinda_Dante]

I can see Harbaugh getting in if he can keep going at the rate he's going. He's never had a losing record and is in a very small group of coaches who can say that. Now, with Flacco he doesn't get enough respect as a top tier QB so it is way too early to start this conversation. All people seem to care about though is stats and not just wins he needs a couple of 30+ TD, 4,000 yard seasons as well as some pro bowl appearances or a league MVP or things like that to be able to get in. He does hold all kinds of playoff records but if that doesn't get him respect now it won't help much to get him into the HOF either. I love Flacco and i hope in 5 years we're talking about how he is a lock to get in.

[beanfigger]

I'm not sure he will even if he wins three. We all know first hand that Flacco gets little respect nationwide. I think he'll need to win an MVP or few, go to quite a few Pro Bowls, get an OPOY award.

If he wins three, he will get in, especially if he is MVP in them. I think he gets in with two and continued playoff success, in general, regardless of stats. When their are dynasties or "teams of the decade", a bunch of borderline players from those squads make it over some others that might look more deserving on paper. If we win three, we'll likely be labeled "team of the decade" and you'll see players like Ngata and others suddenly get more buzz for the hall, especially Joe.

I think winning rungs is the easiest route, but if he keeps on this pace of playoff appearances and victories, he'll likely retire in the top three or so in all the career postseason stats (yards, TDs, of course wins). How could they keep him out then, even with middle-of-the road regular season stats?

(Side note: If he does get another ring or two, I'd bet he even makes a Pro Bowl due to name value at some point with a regular season like this one, but even if not, postseason success will be enough, in my opinion.)

[beanfigger]

If you tell me that only QBs with the best stats get into the Hall of Fame, then you haven't looked at all the QBs in the Hall of Fame.

However, it appears to me that Flacco is going to be our starting QB for as long as he wants. If he stays healthy, the career stats will be there by the end, with or without huge single seasons.

[Kinda_Dante]

Well I know not all the QB's in the HOF have the stats but you also have to think about the era of football they played in now we have QB's that throw for 5,000 yards a season so most people want QB's to throw for 4,000 at least. Now I agree with you that wins and post season success should be enough but because of what people expect out of QB's now a days I don't know if it will be. 

[Tru11]

he will have to put up more stats in the regular season to get in.

 

passing in this age is the easiest as it ever been and if you don't rank among the best , chances are you wont get in.

 

unless they stop looking at the full body of work its not going to happen.

 

he has still 7- 8 years orso though so plenty time to work on it.

[GrimCoconut]

If you tell me that only QBs with the best stats get into the Hall of Fame, then you haven't looked at all the QBs in the Hall of Fame.

However, it appears to me that Flacco is going to be our starting QB for as long as he wants. If he stays healthy, the career stats will be there by the end, with or without huge single seasons.

I didn't quote your other post because it was longer but I think Flacco has a shot. I just don't think he does at the moment. I think if he continues to to the postseason every year and wins games in the playoffs, yes, he'll go. I doubt it'll be a first ballot, but I think he'll go.

The things Flacco has going for him are durability, playoff appearances, postseason success. He'll need to continue those and get some accolades from the AP.

[callahan09]

I'm not sure he will even if he wins three. We all know first hand that Flacco gets little respect nationwide. I think he'll need to win an MVP or few, go to quite a few Pro Bowls, get an OPOY award.

He wins three, I don't see why he's not in.  I have a hard time believing that anybody who wins three wouldn't get in, more or less regardless of the rest of their pedigree, but frankly, Flacco, if he wins 3, will have plenty of other pedigree besides just winning 3 rings.  He'll probably be a 100-game winner, for one thing... no other 100-game winner isn't a HOFer.  Personally, I think that's why Eli and Ben absolutely WILL be HOFers... they're both going to retire as multi-SB winners and 100-game winners.  That's always been a first ballot HOFer in the past, and I don't see why it shouldn't be in 10 years or whenever they'll be eligible.  But again, I think if a player did nothing but join the league, win 3 straight SBs, and then have a career ending injury or something, even if they only had game-manager like numbers, they're perhaps a HOFer.  Three-time SB winners are rare enough that I think the voters put them in, and nobody has ever won 3 straight before.  I think Tom Brady could've been a HOFer if he had a career-ending injury after 2004.

[rmcjacket23]

If you tell me that only QBs with the best stats get into the Hall of Fame, then you haven't looked at all the QBs in the Hall of Fame.

However, it appears to me that Flacco is going to be our starting QB for as long as he wants. If he stays healthy, the career stats will be there by the end, with or without huge single seasons.

Which one's, specifically, don't have great stats?

 

And of those... which played in an era that is designed for huge stats?

[GrimCoconut]

He wins three, I don't see why he's not in. I have a hard time believing that anybody who wins three wouldn't get in, more or less regardless of the rest of their pedigree, but frankly, Flacco, if he wins 3, will have plenty of other pedigree besides just winning 3 rings. He'll probably be a 100-game winner, for one thing... no other 100-game winner isn't a HOFer. Personally, I think that's why Eli and Ben absolutely WILL be HOFers... they're both going to retire as multi-SB winners and 100-game winners. That's always been a first ballot HOFer in the past, and I don't see why it shouldn't be in 10 years or whenever they'll be eligible. But again, I think if a player did nothing but join the league, win 3 straight SBs, and then have a career ending injury or something, even if they only had game-manager like numbers, they're perhaps a HOFer. Three-time SB winners are rare enough that I think the voters put them in, and nobody has ever won 3 straight before. I think Tom Brady could've been a HOFer if he had a career-ending injury after 2004.

I don't disagree. I think he should go, but I can see the other side of the argument claiming that winning three Super Bowls isn't impressive enough. There is debate that surrounds Eli and Ben whether they should be considered HoF candidates.

I just don't think it's guaranteed either way. I don't agree with it but Flacco gets very little recognition from people in the media already, so I'm not sure he will even with a few rings. It's also hard considering the time in which he's playing.

[1/28/01]

Oh wow...

[Kinda_Dante]

I just don't think it's guaranteed either way. I don't agree with it but Flacco gets very little recognition from people in the media already, so I'm not sure he will even with a few rings. It's also hard considering the time in which he's playing.

That's what I've been saying you have to consider the era of football we are in now, whether we agree or not he's going to have to put up more stats.

[JacktheRaven]

If his next 7 years are like his last 7, yes he will be in the HOF. So, as of now, it's too early

[callahan09]

I don't disagree. I think he should go, but I can see the other side of the argument claiming that winning three Super Bowls isn't impressive enough. There is debate that surrounds Eli and Ben whether they should be considered HoF candidates.

I just don't think it's guaranteed either way. I don't agree with it but Flacco gets very little recognition from people in the media already, so I'm not sure he will even with a few rings. It's also hard considering the time in which he's playing.

The perception about him in the media is already beginning to show a narrative that he's a big game QB who is lights out with ice in his veins in the play-offs.  That he gives you among the best chances in the post-season.  That kind of reputation can trump a LOT of regular season perception about him.  If he can have another 7 years similar to these first 7 years, the media perception of him will be VERY STRONG in regards to his clutchness and post-season ability.  Frankly, he'll have attained legendary status by then, winning 20 post-season games?  Multiple SBs?  Even if he is 10-6 every season with a few clunkers thrown in, if his post-season pedigree continues at the pace he's already been on, it's unprecedented, and the media has already begun to take notice, the onus is now on Joe to keep it up, and if he does, he's in the HOF, seriously.  Obviously, though, Joe has 0% chance of being a HOFer unless he essentially does just that... if he goes on to have a 14+ year career that averages to the same wins + post-season success as he's had in his first 7 years, that's a HOFer, but if he trails off from here, he's definitely not a HOFer.

[cobrajet]

I think he can get in without the great regular season stats if:

1. He keeps winning to get us to the playoffs

2. He keeps playing amazing in the playoffs and keeps that mystique going (not going one and done and throwing way more TDs than INTS)

3. He keeps doing #1 and #2 for many years

[Gordo52]

Sadly, the most casual nfl fan probably wouldn't even put him in the "Hall of very good."

If he has another 7 years like his first, I think he'll get in. Thats an unbelievable pace though and obviously extremely difficult.... Would have 20+ playoff wins in 14 years with 2 Super Bowls. I think that would be good enough.

Jumping the gun though.

[Ravenslifer]

Too early in his career.  If this year is the start of what he's going to look like in the regular season, that plus his postseason success should give him a solid shot if he plays another 7-8 years.

[callahan09]

Also, I just went ahead and found this old post of mine from 2013, explaining how Flacco not having any Pro Bowls to his name is kind of misleading and an insult to our intelligence:

 

http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/topic/55144-joe-flacco-is-the-man/?p=1645255

 

 

 

2008, they select Kerry Collins, despite a rookie Joe Flacco being the first rookie in NFL history to start every game and bring his team to the playoffs, AND Flacco had the higher QB rating, more yards, and more touchdowns.

 

2009, they select Vince Young, who had a lower QB rating than Flacco, about half as many yards and half as many touchdowns, and fewer wins, as well as David Garrard who had a lower QB rating, fewer yards, and fewer touchdowns (and didn't even have a winning record).

 

2010, they select Matt Cassel over Flacco, despite Joe once again having a higher QB rating than the guy who got selected (as well as more wins and more yards, higher completion percentage and yards per attempt)

 

2011, they select rookie Andy Dalton (like they should have selected Flacco in his rookie year), only Dalton had, one again now, a lower QB rating than Flacco, fewer yards, more interceptions with the same number of touchdowns, and fewer wins (in addition to losing head to head to Flacco and getting swept by Flacco's team).

 

2012, they select rookie Andrew Luck (like they should have selected Flacco in his rookie year, again I say), only Luck had a much lower QB rating and was worse in each of the efficiency stats that goes into the QB rating (yards per attempt, completion percentage, touchdown percentage, and interception percentage), and his team won approximately the same number of games (both at 10 wins at Week 16 of the season, only Flacco didn't play most of the season finale, and Flacco had a 1st place schedule, Luck had a last place schedule).

 

I could make a case, as I just did, that Flacco should have been a Pro Bowler in all 5 of his seasons so far, and that each of those five seasons someone was picked over him that didn't deserve it more than him.

 

My point is, these people never gave Flacco any respect that he rightfully really did deserve in his first 5 seasons.  Each of his first 5 years, I could make a pretty compelling argument for why he should have been a Pro Bowler instead of somebody else.  But there had up to that point always been a negative narrative associated with Flacco, and nobody outside of some Ravens fans was giving him any credit for his accomplishments.  I just wonder if those same people that vote for the Pro Bowl, who are all also Hall of Fame voters, will be able to look back at that period of his career and see what he was really doing in comparison to the other QBs who got ranked ahead of him in those days without necessarily even deserving it.  

 

Flacco has never been the "popular" choice, therefore he has never been selected for a Pro Bowl, but that doesn't mean he's never been a Pro Bowl CALIBER of player, and if the Hall of Fame voters can look at things in context and the whole body of work, they'd see that just because they got it wrong in each individual year by ignoring his pedigree, doesn't mean that he can't be recognized NOW.  This is, again, assuming he goes another 7 years exactly as he's gone these first 7 years.  That includes no pro bowls, no all-pros, no MVPs... But he won't need those if the voters can be objective about what he's done and put it all in context, and see that just because they didn't vote for him to make the Pro Bowl all those years doesn't mean he wasn't playing well enough for that consideration if they had just looked at him differently at that specific time.