Oh no. Bill Vinovich is the main ref for Patriots game

[rmcjacket23]

So, you don't think the OPI call against Smith in the cinci game, right or wrong, changed the outcome?  

 

It usually doesn't happen that game changing calls occur late in the game in any sport.  Refs generally "swallow their whistles" allowing the teams to decide the outcome, kind of an unwritten rule. But there are exceptions.

No more so than any of the dozens of other plays that occurred throughout the game that had an effect on the outcome.

 

At some point, you've got to ask yourself how you end up in that position to begin with... needing essentially a hail mary completion to a WR who needs to push off to make the catch AND not have the refs call a penalty on him.

 

Kind of a direct indictment of what you were doing for the previous 58 minutes or so of the game...

[Tank 92]

No more so than any of the dozens of other plays that occurred throughout the game that had an effect on the outcome.

 

At some point, you've got to ask yourself how you end up in that position to begin with... needing essentially a hail mary completion to a WR who needs to push off to make the catch AND not have the refs call a penalty on him.

 

Kind of a direct indictment of what you were doing for the previous 58 minutes or so of the game...

 

 

You can't talk about what happened during a game in the same context as what occurs at the end.  If you change something during the course of the game(i.e. score more points) it can't be assumed that the remaining events would not change. If it happens at the end of a game it really doesn't matter what happened previously. For a W or a L what matters is the score when the clock is at 00:00. Right or wrong, that OPI call changed the outcome of the game.

 

But to the topic at hand, I don't see any issue with Vinovich being the ref of this game. What I hope is that whomever the zebras are, they are on top of THEIR game and call a as fair a game as possible. 

[rmcjacket23]

You can't talk about what happened during a game in the same context as what occurs at the end. If you change something during the course of the game(i.e. score more points) it can't be assumed that the remaining events would not change. If it happens at the end of a game it really doesn't matter what happened previously. For a W or a L what matters is the score when the clock is at 00:00.

But to the topic at hand, I don't see any issue with Vinovich being the ref of this game. What I hope is that whomever the zebras are, they are on top of THEIR game and call a as fair a game as possible.

The notion that "if it happens at the end of a game it really doesn't matter what happened previously" isn't even remotely accurate, because by definition, something that happens in the future or the present is 100% dictated by the events that took place before it.

Thus, what the team did or did not do previously in the game changes everything about what they do at the end of the game.

The very notion that nothing stays the same if one thing in a game happens differently is entirely my point, thus why it makes absolutely no sense to complain about bad penalities and rulings.

[Tank 92]

The notion that "if it happens at the end of a game it really doesn't matter what happened previously" isn't even remotely accurate, because by definition, something that happens in the future or the present is 100% dictated by the events that took place before it.

Thus, what the team did or did not do previously in the game changes everything about what they do at the end of the game.

The very notion that nothing stays the same if one thing in a game happens differently is entirely my point, thus why it makes absolutely no sense to complain about bad penalities and rulings.

 

 

Not sure why my other reply was deleted, but I'll try again.

 

The original point I made had nothing to do with complaining about bad rulings or penalties. Your talking about things I have no desire to consider or debate.  What I said was that a penalty called at the end of game can change the outcome of that game. Just a simple fact.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

Anybody on this blog site who doesn't realize that poor officiating can affect the outcome of a game is on a river in Egypt called DENIAL. Ask Brandon Pettigrew of the Detroit Lions. First, the officials

ignored a blatant defensive holding penalty and then on the same play they called pass interference

against the Cowboys but mysteriously picked up the flag. It was poor officiating at its best (no pun

intended). You who don't have to believe in conspiracies to see that the officiating in the NFL is

slightly less than good (to coin a phrase from Clark Gable) and that the NFL wants certain teams to

advance in the playoffs. QUESTION: Who pays off the officials? ANSWER: They are NFL employees so I

think they work for Roger Goodell, huh? YES, T-Sizzle is absolutely right! We must go to Foxboro to

defeat the Patsies AND the league officials who would like to see the Patsies and Peyton in the AFC

Championship game. That's the truth and if you don't think so, then "YOU CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!"

[Neal Could Block the SUN!!]

Good Points Frozen Joe

I don't recall seeing the fan voting ballot for referee performance. Odd that I get (sarcasm font needed)so much power to vote for the pro bowl but no say in the referee performance. Be interesting how the refs would be graded if the fans could weigh in on week to week performance.

I imagine it is much easier to advocate the performance you want out of your refs by awarding them play off and SB selections based on in season votes from Goodells monkeys. I guess that the spider camera isn't the only rigging in the stadium on Sunday!

[rmcjacket23]

Good Points Frozen Joe

I don't recall seeing the fan voting ballot for referee performance. Odd that I get (sarcasm font needed)so much power to vote for the pro bowl but no say in the referee performance. Be interesting how the refs would be graded if the fans could weigh in on week to week performance.

I imagine it is much easier to advocate the performance you want out of your refs by awarding them play off and SB selections based on in season votes from Goodells monkeys. I guess that the spider camera isn't the only rigging in the stadium on Sunday!

That would be because fans aren't qualified to assess the capabilities of referees... they are fans. They don't have the resume or overall skill sets to be determining right or wrong calls, particularly in real time. Fans would probably treat official voting the same they do Pro Bowl voting... as a popularity contest, having very little if anything to do with actual on field production. In no way does it benefit the NFL, its teams, or its fans to allow fans to dictate who are and who aren't good officials, because for the most part, the fans themselves don't have a sufficient understanding of the rulebook to make that judgment.

 

The Pro Bowl allows fan voting because its a "fans" game... its designed 100% for the fans.

[Wildabeast88]

If we don't commit penalties it won't matter...

Seriously, concerns over the refs are overblown. Don't do stupid stuff and you won't get penalized.

Did you watch the Lions Cowboys game enough said. An obvious PI where the defender doesnt make a play on the ball then Dez comes onto the field yelling at the refs and they ignore it so they can make a difference

[Nightman]

It could be worse, we had those Linguine Football League rejects during the official's lockout,  Never heard the Ravens fans do the compost chant so many times.

[rmcjacket23]

Did you watch the Lions Cowboys game enough said. An obvious PI where the defender doesnt make a play on the ball then Dez comes onto the field yelling at the refs and they ignore it so they can make a difference

Yup, poor Lions. Only 8 minutes left and the lead. How could they ever come back and win from that terrible call?

 

Come on people...

[Inqui]

Did you watch the Lions Cowboys game enough said. An obvious PI where the defender doesnt make a play on the ball then Dez comes onto the field yelling at the refs and they ignore it so they can make a difference

Lions had plenty of other chances to win it. Bad calls happen, but bad teams (and sore loser fans) let them dictate the results.

[Inqui]

It could be worse, we had those Linguine Football League rejects during the official's lockout, Never heard the Ravens fans do the compost chant so many times.

What's the Linguine Football League? Some kind of cooking contest? If so, I agree those refs have no business in the NFL.

[Willbacker]

Anybody on this blog site who doesn't realize that poor officiating can affect the outcome of a game is on a river in Egypt called DENIAL. Ask Brandon Pettigrew of the Detroit Lions. First, the officials

ignored a blatant defensive holding penalty and then on the same play they called pass interference

against the Cowboys but mysteriously picked up the flag. It was poor officiating at its best (no pun

intended). You who don't have to believe in conspiracies to see that the officiating in the NFL is

slightly less than good (to coin a phrase from Clark Gable) and that the NFL wants certain teams to

advance in the playoffs. QUESTION: Who pays off the officials? ANSWER: They are NFL employees so I

think they work for Roger Goodell, huh? YES, T-Sizzle is absolutely right! We must go to Foxboro to

defeat the Patsies AND the league officials who would like to see the Patsies and Peyton in the AFC

Championship game. That's the truth and if you don't think so, then "YOU CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!"

I don't know about conspiracies but there's no doubt the NFL would like to see certain teams adavance. It would be a dark day tho if it was ever found that the refs were deciding games cuz the NFL wanted a certain outcome.

 

It could be worse, we had those Linguine Football League rejects during the official's lockout,  Never heard the Ravens fans do the compost chant so many times.

Lol. Yep and after the Sea/GB farce they all went to the Olive Garden for the all you can eat pasta and never came back.

 

Yup, poor Lions. Only 8 minutes left and the lead. How could they ever come back and win from that terrible call?

 

Come on people...

It wasn't just that play but Blandino also they missed a holding call that would have negated a 21 yd gain on 4th and 6 on the game winning drive. Should have been 4th and 16. A ref call can shift the momentum and outcome of a game. Yes the Lions had their chances especially after the Lions fumbled the ball and Dallas fumbled right back on the same play but.................should Detroit have been in that predictament. That bad call was major in the outcome of that game.

 

And just to comment on the ref calling the game. Who cares. The NFL used to use allstar crews but now its allstar refs. The crews work all year together and yet they get split up during the playoffs. Thats beyond stupid and I didn't even know this until today. NFL needs to change that pronto.

[rmcjacket23]

I don't know about conspiracies but there's no doubt the NFL would like to see certain teams adavance. It would be a dark day tho if it was ever found that the refs were deciding games cuz the NFL wanted a certain outcome.

 

Lol. Yep and after the Sea/GB farce they all went to the Olive Garden for the all you can eat pasta and never came back.

 

It wasn't just that play but Blandino also they missed a holding call that would have negated a 21 yd gain on 4th and 6 on the game winning drive. Should have been 4th and 16. A ref call can shift the momentum and outcome of a game. Yes the Lions had their chances especially after the Lions fumbled the ball and Dallas fumbled right back on the same play but.................should Detroit have been in that predictament. That bad call was major in the outcome of that game.

 

And just to comment on the ref calling the game. Who cares. The NFL used to use allstar crews but now its allstar refs. The crews work all year together and yet they get split up during the playoffs. Thats beyond stupid and I didn't even know this until today. NFL needs to change that pronto.

Yes, but that holding call wasn't even remotely brought up or discussed by anybody until the league came out and said they missed it.

 

At the end of the day, poor officiating calls have been made in every single NFL game since existence. Good teams overcome it, bad teams use it as an excuse when they lose.

 

If we lose, I sure hope this fanbase doesn't choose the latter route. It makes the fanbase look a lot worse than it does the officials.

[K-Dog]

While you're at it ask them for a clear explanation how the penalty was flagged, announced, and then picked up with no explanation?

Agreed the 10 yard punt after the call and the failure to go for it on 4th and 1 impacted the game, but are you saying that taking away a clear first down penalty with the lead in the 4th qtr didn't impact the outcome of the game? You mean to say this was not a tide turner?

Oh I agree 100% that the call or lack there of did have an effect on the game. Simple math will tell you so. It was just one in over a million officiating mistakes that have taken place since the NFL took its first snap. Sadly bad calls are part of football. I have been told holding could be called on every snap. I dont doubt it. I would gladly give you fifty bucks if you can find me an officiating error free NFL game. You cant do it. Its part of the game. Teams need to play in a way not only minimize the occurrence, but the impact as well. Play should dictate the score, not officiating.

 

or are you just looking to make a smart comment and get a rise?

I will just assume since you have only four hundred some posts you dont know me real well, so I will skip this last question.

 

[Neal Could Block the SUN!!]

Oh I agree 100% that the call or lack there of did have an effect on the game. Simple math will tell you so. It was just one in over a million officiating mistakes that have taken place since the NFL took its first snap. Sadly bad calls are part of football. I have been told holding could be called on every snap. I dont doubt it. I would gladly give you fifty bucks if you can find me an officiating error free NFL game. You cant do it. Its part of the game. Teams need to play in a way not only minimize the occurrence, but the impact as well. Play should dictate the score, not officiating.

 

I will just assume since you have only four hundred some posts you dont know me real well, so I will skip this last question.

 

Seriously- post counts equaling merit is the most ridiculous notion ever.  Might want to check the joined date before making this assumption.  Some of just don't post every trivial thought that pops in our head.

[Inqui]

Seriously- post counts equaling merit is the most ridiculous notion ever.  Might want to check the joined date before making this assumption.  Some of just don't post every trivial thought that pops in our head.

His point is that you don't know anything about him, not that you don't know anything about the game.

[K-Dog]

Seriously- post counts equaling merit is the most ridiculous notion ever.  Might want to check the joined date before making this assumption.  Some of just don't post every trivial thought that pops in our head.

Join date is not immediately visible.  Post count is.  I was not equating post count to merit, but exposure.  My point simply was you asked if I was  " just looking to make a smart comment and get a rise?"   That is not me.  That is not my style.  People here who know me, know that.

But I am a card carrying member of the " we need a sarcasm font" club.  That is about as far as I go to get a rise.

[Nightman]

Problem with spell check it was the Lingerie Football League where the Baltimore Charm played at the Baltimore Arena, their TV deal was on MTV2.  High school officials would have done a better job.  Before they found out the Arena is terrible.  Someone better start funding and building a replacement preferably rebuilding part of the Convention Center with an 18,000 seat facet, so we can get Minor League Hockey, along with moving the Blast there and perhaps get some NCAA First round games and the Big 10 basketball tournament, even the Arena League in the spring.  I suggest raising money with scratch off lottery games, it worked for Oriole Park and M&T Bank Stadium.

[The Raven]

Did you watch the Lions Cowboys game enough said. An obvious PI where the defender doesnt make a play on the ball then Dez comes onto the field yelling at the refs and they ignore it so they can make a difference

 

The Lions had a 14 point lead and lost. They deserved to lose.

[Petteri Moilanen]

if bad calls can't alter the outcomes of games the nfl sure is wasting everyone's time with this silly coaches challenge and instant replay review nonsense.

 

they are even discussing adding penalty challenges into the mix with the same number of overall challenges.

 

obviously bad calls and bad penalties can and do alter outcomes, lets just hope this game is called cleanly enough to allow us to prevail.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2320064-nfl-head-of-officiating-speaks-on-controversial-play-in-lions-vs-cowboys

I think it would be a good thing if coaches could challenge penalties too. Maybe someday in the future...

[rmcjacket23]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2320064-nfl-head-of-officiating-speaks-on-controversial-play-in-lions-vs-cowboys

I think it would be a good thing if coaches could challenge penalties too. Maybe someday in the future...

Bad for the time and speed of the game. Trying to instant replay something that is inherently subjective is a recipe to destroy a sport.

 

Plus, with a maximum of three challenges a game, it really doesn't solve any problems. Don't you think that there's more than three penalties or officiating decisions made per game that coaches disagree with?

[frozen joe flacco fan]

The Lions had a 14 point lead and lost. They deserved to lose.

You might want to apply for a job as an NFL official. Nobody deserves to lose when they have a 14

point lead. Officials can and do affect the outcome of games. I'll agree that a team should avoid

putting itself in a position so as to ensure that the refs do not affect the game's outcome but it is very difficult to do when the NFL wants certain teams to advance. That's the reality! Whether it is

conspired or not, it does speak to the integrity of the game which is under attack IMO. The NFL

should be held to a higher standard than WWF "Professional" Wrestling. Notwithstanding the above, the

Ravens did a good job against the Squeelers in Pittsburgh by avoiding stupid penalties and by

maintaining their composure. However, calls like the one that were made against Dallas' Hitchens and then picked up are hard to avoid. If you don't understand how that could affect the outcome of the

game, you simply don't understand the game, 14 point lead or not.

[rmcjacket23]

You might want to apply for a job as an NFL official. Nobody deserves to lose when they have a 14

point lead. Officials can and do affect the outcome of games. I'll agree that a team should avoid

putting itself in a position so as to ensure that the refs do not affect the game's outcome but it is very difficult to do when the NFL wants certain teams to advance. That's the reality! Whether it is

conspired or not, it does speak to the integrity of the game which is under attack IMO. The NFL

should be held to a higher standard than WWF "Professional" Wrestling. Notwithstanding the above, the

Ravens did a good job against the Squeelers in Pittsburgh by avoiding stupid penalties and by

maintaining their composure. However, calls like the one that were made against Dallas' Hitchens and then picked up are hard to avoid. If you don't understand how that could affect the outcome of the

game, you simply don't understand the game, 14 point lead or not.

The point isn't whether it affected the game... the point is whether it affected the game more than any of the other dozens of plays in a game that affect the game.

 

And the answer is no, it didn't. The opportunities to win the game presented themselves in a major way, with our without that call.

 

As for the integrity of the game being questioned, its not being questioned by barely anyone when it comes to officiating. It might be in question for other things (such as the hypocrisy of safety rules vs playing frequency), but besides a few fanboard bashers here and there, nobody is seriously questioning the integrity of the game when it comes to officiating.

[The Raven]

You might want to apply for a job as an NFL official. Nobody deserves to lose when they have a 14

point lead. Officials can and do affect the outcome of games. I'll agree that a team should avoid

putting itself in a position so as to ensure that the refs do not affect the game's outcome but it is very difficult to do when the NFL wants certain teams to advance. That's the reality! Whether it is

conspired or not, it does speak to the integrity of the game which is under attack IMO. The NFL

should be held to a higher standard than WWF "Professional" Wrestling. Notwithstanding the above, the

Ravens did a good job against the Squeelers in Pittsburgh by avoiding stupid penalties and by

maintaining their composure. However, calls like the one that were made against Dallas' Hitchens and then picked up are hard to avoid. If you don't understand how that could affect the outcome of the

game, you simply don't understand the game, 14 point lead or not.

 

So, that specific play was their only chance to win the game? Is that what you're telling me?

 

My high school coach always said that if we let refs decide the game, then we didn't do our job and we deserved to lose. I'd bet that's the mentality most NFL coaches share too.

[Ravenseconbeast]

Bit disappointed folks aren't really debating about the OT on hand.

But looking further into Bill Vinovich, he did have farely significant game he did 'well' @ravens playoff game in past history.

For one, the broncos game @2012 playoffs. I know a lot of the calls were against us that coukdve costed us dearly. The fumble by Peyton(which were reviewed) and several long throws decision were correctly analyzed and for most part consistent.

He also had few patriots game(especially dolphins vs pats) that I feel he did a great job on.

The steelers game thoigh really troubles me. The fact that there were so many absent calls on blatant missed calls on us and acting on deaf ears on critical plays @week8.

Maybe vinovich feels like he had to get tough on ravens. Its just very important that he gets the call right on this game bc i feel like this game can get away from us if ref do not pay attn early. Jmo

[Neal Could Block the SUN!!]

Anyone catch Inside the NFL last night? Had a section of Harbs Mic'd up, showed me everything I needed about how ref's and blown or missed calls can change a game.

Harbs sees Stealers cheating and moving a downed ball forward. He then voices his concern to the side judge. Next he notes that the line marker has been moved forward to match the illegitimate ball location. Harbs gets into with the fella holding the line marker. Actually gets called a cry baby by some scrub side line employee. The back and forth was humorous if not for the fact that Harbs caught them in the act of cheating.

How much did the ball move? According to Harbs one full length. Ask yourself, how many games, downs, and TD's would a ball advanced by one full length completely change?

Sure, sure, go on believing that the Ref's and a bad call or two can't change a game.

Care to look at a bridge I got for sale while we're talking??

[rmcjacket23]

Anyone catch Inside the NFL last night? Had a section of Harbs Mic'd up, showed me everything I needed about how ref's and blown or missed calls can change a game.

Harbs sees Stealers cheating and moving a downed ball forward. He then voices his concern to the side judge. Next he notes that the line marker has been moved forward to match the illegitimate ball location. Harbs gets into with the fella holding the line marker. Actually gets called a cry baby by some scrub side line employee. The back and forth was humorous if not for the fact that Harbs caught them in the act of cheating.

How much did the ball move? According to Harbs one full length. Ask yourself, how many games, downs, and TD's would a ball advanced by one full length completely change?

Sure, sure, go on believing that the Ref's and a bad call or two can't change a game.

Care to look at a bridge I got for sale while we're talking??

OK, then use it as an excuse when we lose.

 

Me personally, I'm more into football execution as being the driving factor in actual football games.

[Moderator 3]

Anyone catch Inside the NFL last night? Had a section of Harbs Mic'd up, showed me everything I needed about how ref's and blown or missed calls can change a game.Harbs sees Stealers cheating and moving a downed ball forward. He then voices his concern to the side judge. Next he notes that the line marker has been moved forward to match the illegitimate ball location. Harbs gets into with the fella holding the line marker. Actually gets called a cry baby by some scrub side line employee. The back and forth was humorous if not for the fact that Harbs caught them in the act of cheating.How much did the ball move? According to Harbs one full length. Ask yourself, how many games, downs, and TD's would a ball advanced by one full length completely change?Sure, sure, go on believing that the Ref's and a bad call or two can't change a game.Care to look at a bridge I got for sale while we're talking??

If anyone can find a link to that video, I would like to watch it.

[Petteri Moilanen]

Bad for the time and speed of the game. Trying to instant replay something that is inherently subjective is a recipe to destroy a sport.

 

Plus, with a maximum of three challenges a game, it really doesn't solve any problems. Don't you think that there's more than three penalties or officiating decisions made per game that coaches disagree with?

Well if you have only three challenges you should use them wisely. So I don't think it would change the game too much with the time and speed. It would give something more to grasp on when you think some situations are going totally wrong against your team because of the reffs. So I don't see any problems with this. There will be always something that the reffs miss and they will always make bad calls but now you could do something else than just to yell at the reffs and hope they would change their mind.