Updated: Who Should Be Our Next OC? It's Trestman

[ravensdfan]

Trestman has never lasted longer than three years at any NFL position. Not impressed. 

 

I guess you are allowed to be unimpressed but no one else is allowed that luxury then.

 

He doesn't run a vertical offense like Cam they're all quick short throws with screen passes. He ran the ball a lot with Forte. Forte caught the ball on check downs often too. People are just getting carried away. Remember he had the 2nd best scoring offense in 2013. Injuries to alshon, brandon Marshall and O line hurt them. Not to mention Culters dgaf attitude.

 

 

but you said exactly that.

"Now we just won't score at all"

If that's not what you mean, don't say it.

We normally agree on most things, but your backtracking here.

In the context, it is what I meant. If there is no vertical game, and we are inefficient with screens, not much scoring going on.

 

I think the point that you're missing that I think we're all assuming is that the original point indicated coaching being a factor in screen inefficiency, i.e. not emphasized by any of our previous coaches. If Trestman bases his offense on it, he'll emphasize it and correct it to be more efficient. He did this in Chicago, thus confidence he could do it here. And if he, with a screen heavy, lite on vertical passing based scheme could near lead the league in scoring 2 years ago with McCown, there is some indication that scoring wont be the issue here.

 

Does everything have to be spelled out?

 

And regardless of context "we wont score at all" is a pretty direct and clear statement. It stands alone and apart from the rest of your post.

The original post I responded to is in bold. No, nothing was said about coaching at all. So everyone "assumed" incorrectly.

 

And no, it doesn't stand alone. It was in the context of Trestman not playing a vertical game and us not being efficient at screens. That short game is not exactly one of our strengths.

Edited January 20, 2015 by ravensdfan

[RavensFanMania]

Shanahan gave Kubiak his job in Denver and they have Super Bowl rings together in the Elway era. They Kubiak hired Shanny's son, Kyle as is OC in Houston for 8 seasons. I think their all pretty well intertwined.

Thanks, I'm aware of the Mike Shanahan/Kubiak/kyle connection.

Also Mike Shanahan worked in San francisco under seifert as QB coach and OC. That's how he is connected to the wco

Edited January 20, 2015 by RavensFanMania

[Inqui]

http://blogs.thescore.com/nfl/2013/12/11/how-marc-trestman-went-from-quarterback-whisperer-to-offensive-innovator/

Good read, breaks down a few plays, one actually against us two years ago.

Thanks for the link, I found a few detailing his early days in the NFL and his time in the CFL.

 

I'm also trying to work out what went wrong in Chicago to see if there's anything we need to be sketchy of.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

I guess you are allowed to be unimpressed but no one else is allowed that luxury then.

 

 

 

In the context, it is what I meant. If there is no vertical game, and we are inefficient with screens, not much scoring going on.

 

The original post I responded to is in bold. No, nothing was said about coaching at all. So everyone "assumed" incorrectly.

 

Sorry it came somewhere as a response to your post then. Way to go and cherry pick posts.

[ravensdfan]

Thanks for the link, I found a few detailing his early days in the NFL and his time in the CFL.

 

I'm also trying to work out what went wrong in Chicago to see if there's anything we need to be sketchy of.

I don't follow the CFL. Is it comparable when trying to establish tendencies and success?

[ravensdfan]

Sorry it came somewhere as a response to your post then. Way to go and cherry pick posts.

No it wasn't a response to any of my posts but you can double check me on that.

 

edit: I stand corrected. Dewy had one sentence about screens being about timing and proper coaching. (so I then have to assume we've had crap coaches because we've never been too good at them). Missed his response.

Edited January 20, 2015 by ravensdfan

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

I like it. We could have a good offense again(we won't crash and burn).

Basically guarentees is going wr. Will get along with Flacco...

Good hire

[Hardbaugh]

I liked the idea of hiring Gase until they mentioned on Vinny and Rob today how Gase and Manning would get into shouting matches. Vinny mentioned because of Trestmans personality Flacco and his new coordinator should get along great.

 

They both swung me to a Trestman before he got hired. Trestman has done it over the long haul and isn't a one trick pony, see McDaniel.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Hardbaugh

[The Raven]

I just googled "Marc Trestman offensive scheme" to find out more about him, and I'm a lot happier with the hire. From what I read, he's flexible, creative, innovative, he coaches to his personnel, and he's an aggressive play caller. I don't watch enough Bears football to verify all that, but that's what I've read.

[hawkprey]

I'm pretty sure the Bears threw the ball so much because they were always behind. And Cutler always checks to a pass whenever possible.

[RavensFanMania]

At this point in time it's hard for someone not to be part of the Walsh coaching tree.

At this point in time it's hard for someone not to be part of the Walsh coaching tree.

That's correct, which is why I mentioned that Trestman is closer to the mike McCarthy version than the Kubiak/Shanahan version

[ravensdfan]

I liked the idea of hiring Gase until they mentioned on Vinny and Rob today how Gase and Manning would get into shouting matches. Vinny mentioned because of Trestmans personality Flacco and his new coordinator should get along great.

 

They both swung me to a Trestman before he got hired. Trestman has done it over the long haul and isn't a one trick pony, see McDaniel.

When the Jags also passed on Gase I figured there must be something there teams are not liking about him.

 

I like that Trestman was a QB and a QB coach. I'm nervous about how much he's moved around and even into the CFL for a chunk of time. Doesn't seem like anyone liked him enough to keep him around.

[jazz1988]

Well trestman is more bill Walsh and Mike shanny/kubiak is more don coryell

I Dont think trestman respects the run game as much as shanny's/Kubiak does seeing how Bears run game fared this year

 

 

Trestman and Mike/ Kubiak both run a west coast offense. Not all west coast offenses are the same and just about all have some form of air coryell in it.

Edited January 20, 2015 by jazz1988

[Inqui]

I don't follow the CFL. Is it comparable when trying to establish tendencies and success?

http://www.windycitygridiron.com/2013/1/16/3885086/bears-playbook-marc-trestmans-passing-west-coast-offense

 

There's an extra player and more room to work with, but there's no reason for the principles to not translate.

[The Raven]

Trestman and Mike/ Kubiak both run a west coast offense. Not all west coast offenses are the same and just about all have some form of air corydell in it.

 

Not quite... the West Coast was born from a tree of the Air Coryell, but in actuality, the offenses are quite different.

[allblackraven]

Thanks for the link, I found a few detailing his early days in the NFL and his time in the CFL.

 

I'm also trying to work out what went wrong in Chicago to see if there's anything we need to be sketchy of.

 

Judging Trestman as an OC on Chicago's last season is unfair. The entire team was abomination, seemed there wasn't lot of people in that locker room talking to each other. Then, there was Cutler, worse than previous year. This will be out of the picture in Baltimore, his responsibilities will be entirely different and his QB is the real deal.

 

There is a lot of talk of his unbalanced offense but the stats from 2013 don't agree:

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/chi/2013.htm

 

Obviously having receivers like Jeffrey and Marshall plays a part but they did run decent amount.

 

It's early to tell how will our O turn out but I definitely feel more comfortable with Trestman than Gase.

[Inqui]

 

Trestman and Mike/ Kubiak both run a west coast offense. Not all west coast offenses are the same and just about all have some form of air corydell in it.

 

Not quite... the West Coast was born from a tree of the Air Coryell, but in actuality, the offenses are quite different.

This - and it's the Coryell, as in Don Coryell, not the Corydell.

 

Sorry, that particular misspelling has just been bugging me since Cam left.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Inqui

[PolishRifle]

I like what he did with McCown, when Cutler was hurt. I believe he's a good hire.

[Bltravens]

http://www.windycitygridiron.com/2013/1/16/3885086/bears-playbook-marc-trestmans-passing-west-coast-offense

 

There's an extra player and more room to work with, but there's no reason for the principles to not translate.

The principles don't translate that well.  The WRs all get a running start except the wide out.  Most CFL teams don't run pure man coverages because you can't really with 4 WRs with a running head start at you.  The separation is ridiculous in the CFL. Sorry, but there's been 3 Canadians from this board already in this thread all state that Trestman's offense won't translate well to Baltimore.  Either Harbaugh will force Trestman to run the ball more than he's comfortable or Trestman's soft offense will follow him here.

Either way, I don't like this hire just based on the match.  Trestman is an outstanding offensive mind and great with QBs.  I just don't, and the other 2 Canadians who watched him in the CFL for half a decade agreed, see this offense translating well here in Baltimore.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Bltravens

[RavensFanMania]

Trestman and Mike/ Kubiak both run a west coast offense. Not all west coast offenses are the same and just about all have some form of air coryell in it.

They have vertical concepts, not Air Coryell in them. Air Coryelll is a full offensive system.

[RavensFanMania]

This - and it's the Coryell, as in Don Coryell, not the Corydell.

 

.

Correct

[The Raven]

Cautiously optimistic with this hire, after some thought. Has some pros, has some cons. Not as much of a guaranteed success as Kubiak was. But I like what he could do with Joe, and I'm eagerly awaiting how he'll run this offense with Harbaugh's and the other coaches' influence.

Edited January 20, 2015 by The Raven

[RavensFanMania]

Roots of the WCO go as far back as Sid Gillman, but it wasn't until Bill Walsh was an assisted in Cincinnati that the blue print started to take shape.

Edited January 20, 2015 by RavensFanMania

[ratedr]

Jim Harbaugh coached with Trestman in Oakland and Ozzie was coached by him in Cleveland. They know him. I think it's a good hire. He's had success with every QB he's worked with not named Cutler.

[bMore Heathen]

Does anybody actually know if Trestman was the play caller in Chi? Or was it his OC?

[TDubbs]

I'm actually pretty excited about this. Trestman was not HC material (could blame it on the cancer that is Jay Cutler), but now he gets to focus solely his offense. I think its a shot at having an innovative OC and a guy who may stick around for more than a season. 

Edited January 20, 2015 by TDubbs

[jimmypowder]

Trestman>Kubiak and the Donkeys

[ravensdfan]

I'm a bit confused as this does make it sound like the Ravens turned down Shanahan. Not sure if I like "pass happy playbook" description.

 

 

"Baltimore also considered Kyle Shanahan, who would have offered a seamless transition as a disciple of Kubiak. Trestman, though, has proven he can operate a vibrant, diverse passing attack that challenges defenses downfield.

His pass-happy playbook might narrow Baltimore's focus on the run, but we don't expect the Ravens to wander too far from their roots in the rough-and-tumble AFC North.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000461175/article/ravens-hire-marc-trestman-as-offensive-coordinator

Edited January 20, 2015 by ravensdfan

[ratedr]

I liked the idea of hiring Gase until they mentioned on Vinny and Rob today how Gase and Manning would get into shouting matches. Vinny mentioned because of Trestmans personality Flacco and his new coordinator should get along great.

They both swung me to a Trestman before he got hired. Trestman has done it over the long haul and isn't a one trick pony, see McDaniel.

Same here, Vinny had some great insight on Trestman.

Gase must have attitude issues because he's not getting hired anywhere.

[Sizzlebshu]

After thinking about this hire, here is where I'm at

 

Pros

Capable QB coach. Not Jim Harbaugh, but can definitely improve fundamentals in even the most mediocre of QBs

Uses a diverse route tree in play calls. 

Able to find mismatches 

 

Cons

Pass-happy 

Lack of Personnel? (there was a lot of offensive talent to work with in Chi that we don't have here)

Does not play to the Ravens's strengths (running the ball, ie tough grind it out football)

QB mobility not used often (one of the things I liked about Kubiak was allowing Joe to use his athleticism some)

 

 

Overall, this is a clear downgrade from Kubiak who honestly was a perfect fit for everything we wanted the Ravens to do and how we wanted to do it. While Kubiak had his flaws (see games against AFC South oppns for how to beat his system). the system was definitely tailor-fitted to the Ravens. This is more of a square-peg round hold deal. We may need a 2 or more seasons to get the personnel and break this system in before seeing the type of numbers we had under Kubiak. FWIW, i like the hire better than Gase. It speaks a great deal that no team has picked him up (likely a product of Manning) 

Edited January 20, 2015 by Sizzlebshu