January Joe

[flynismo]

I feel like this could be the win that puts Flacco into a new category. The "Elite" thing will always be debated because he'll never put up those crazy numbers, but there's still a little bit of doubt as to whether or not he can replicate what he already did once during the Super Bowl run. "Clutch" is one thing, and I think we all know he's capable of making "the throw" if the team is in that position late. But, if we play another game like we just did in New England, I think he goes from a guy you can trust to make "the throw" to a guy you can trust to play "the game" when it counts.

An easier way to say it is that right now Flacco gets compared to other quarterbacks, but I think if he plays New England the way he did the last two times in the playoffs, he might have a little niche that changes those comparisons. It would be interesting to see the national perception of a guy who's expected to win, regardless of stats. Right now, I don't think there's really a guy like that in the league.

Very interesting thought!

And as a by product, you would think that being expected to win at all costs would cement his rep as "elite" (such a lame and meaningless term), since after all, you are not drafted to put up stats, you are drafted to help your team win games...but sadly, the bias against Flacco is too firmly rooted to ever change that perception on a national level.

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

The saga continues...

 

Any bets on what the next postseason record he ties or breaks will be?

 

He's also 12th on the all time playoff passer rating list with a career playoff passer rating of 88.2 and 15th on the all time playoff passing yards list with 2,981 yards.He's 396 yards away from passing Steve Young for the 14th spot.When you look at the guys in the top 10 on the all time playoff TDs and yards list every one of them are HOFers except Donovan McNabb who is tied with Brees ans Staubach at 9th on the TD list.These aren't just accomplishments people can wave off because of Ray Lewis and the defense.Making it to the top ten on those two list are a big freaking deal.The passer rating list has guys like Sanchez and Kapernick on it so I don't take that one as seriously.

[jdynamite]

I'm listening to Cowherd now. He's absolutely gushing over Flacco. He's one of the few sports personalities who picked the Ravens to win this weekend. However, Cowherd is giddy over Flacco right now on the radio.

Lol. I'm not sure what directv channel I went too accidentally. ( I was playing NBA 2K15, and I always put my surround sound on with either Mike & Mike or NFLN. ) But the dog accidentally stepped on the remote.

Cowherd said he'd take Flacco over Peyton manning the other guy said you can't be serious cowherd said c'mon manning can barely throw 45 yards, and you want him over Flacco are you crazy. Lol

[callahan09]

He's also 12th on the all time playoff passer rating list with a career playoff passer rating of 88.2 and 15th on the all time playoff passing yards list with 2,981 yards.He's 396 yards away from passing Steve Young for the 14th spot.When you look at the guys in the top 10 on the all time playoff TDs and yards list every one of them are HOFers except Donovan McNabb who is tied with Brees ans Staubach at 9th on the TD list.These aren't just accomplishments people can wave off because of Ray Lewis and the defense.Making it to the top ten on those two list are a big freaking deal.The passer rating list has guys like Sanchez and Kapernick on it so I don't take that one as seriously.

The thing that bothers me about the passer rating is that I can sometimes look at a stat line and know in my gut which one I'd rather have from my quarterback, but the other one has the higher score.  There are just some quirks to it.  In the comparison of Joe and Eli, it's completion percentage that's the culprit.  

 

Joe has a higher yards per attempt, higher touchdown percentage, and lower interception percentage than Eli in the post-season.  By a pretty good margin, too, in all 3 stats.  Those are 3 of the 4 stats that make up the passer rating statistic.  Eli has the higher completion percentage, and the higher passer rating.  Really?  I'd rather have more yards per attempt, more touchdowns, and fewer INTs than to have more completions that went for fewer yards, fewer touchdowns, and more interceptions.  

 

It's all bulk numbers divided to efficiency in the end.  The number of catches it took to get those yards and touchdowns doesn't matter to me, but if you're averaging more yards per play, more touchdowns, and not turning the ball over as much, that's just simply BETTER to me, but the completion percentage part of it penalizes people who take shots downfield and inflates people who dink and dunk, and I don't think that's fair, or at all representative of the kind of play that it actually takes to WIN GAMES.  If you can't take a shot downfield, you're much less likely to win games.  You can have a high rating as a result of completion percentage and even lack of INTs if you're taking no RISKS, but you're not necessarily doing what it takes to win games.  Look at Ryan Tannehill, he doesn't turn the ball over much and he has a very high completion percentage, so his passer rating looks pretty high, but the fact is, he doesn't take risks, and if he needs to move the ball, he isn't capable of doing it, and that's why he doesn't win enough games to ever make the playoffs.  Dinking and dunking is nice for inflating your efficiency, but if that's ALL you can do, you're not good enough.  Passer rating doesn't tell the whole story for that very reason.

[757RavensFan]

Lol. I'm not sure what directv channel I went too accidentally. ( I was playing NBA 2K15, and I always put my surround sound on with either Mike & Mike or NFLN. ) But the dog accidentally stepped on the remote.

Cowherd said he'd take Flacco over Peyton manning the other guy said you can't be serious cowherd said c'mon manning can barely throw 45 yards, and you want him over Flacco are you crazy. Lol

If you have Directv, you watched that on channel 209, ESPN2.

[3-4ravdef509]

The thing that bothers me about the passer rating is that I can sometimes look at a stat line and know in my gut which one I'd rather have from my quarterback, but the other one has the higher score.  There are just some quirks to it.  In the comparison of Joe and Eli, it's completion percentage that's the culprit.  

 

Joe has a higher yards per attempt, higher touchdown percentage, and lower interception percentage than Eli in the post-season.  By a pretty good margin, too, in all 3 stats.  Those are 3 of the 4 stats that make up the passer rating statistic.  Eli has the higher completion percentage, and the higher passer rating.  Really?  I'd rather have more yards per attempt, more touchdowns, and fewer INTs than to have more completions that went for fewer yards, fewer touchdowns, and more interceptions.  

 

It's all bulk numbers divided to efficiency in the end.  The number of catches it took to get those yards and touchdowns doesn't matter to me, but if you're averaging more yards per play, more touchdowns, and not turning the ball over as much, that's just simply BETTER to me, but the completion percentage part of it penalizes people who take shots downfield and inflates people who dink and dunk, and I don't think that's fair, or at all representative of the kind of play that it actually takes to WIN GAMES.  If you can't take a shot downfield, you're much less likely to win games.  You can have a high rating as a result of completion percentage and even lack of INTs if you're taking no RISKS, but you're not necessarily doing what it takes to win games.  Look at Ryan Tannehill, he doesn't turn the ball over much and he has a very high completion percentage, so his passer rating looks pretty high, but the fact is, he doesn't take risks, and if he needs to move the ball, he isn't capable of doing it, and that's why he doesn't win enough games to ever make the playoffs.  Dinking and dunking is nice for inflating your efficiency, but if that's ALL you can do, you're not good enough.  Passer rating doesn't tell the whole story for that very reason.

 

Can this post be enshrined in the HOF?

[StingerNLG]

WIN GAMES.

 

Not that your entire post wasn't awesome, but these are the two words that should matter here.  

[D-Rey]

I really like this article http://tikiandtierney.radio.cbssports.com/2015/01/05/rob-long-flacco-is-hall-of-fame-qb-in-postseason/. I have noticed Joe getting a bit more respect by the media. Though there still are a lot of haters that say his success is only because of defense, even this year. They'll only be able to use that for so long though.

[baltimorefan328]

The thing that bothers me about the passer rating is that I can sometimes look at a stat line and know in my gut which one I'd rather have from my quarterback, but the other one has the higher score.  There are just some quirks to it.  In the comparison of Joe and Eli, it's completion percentage that's the culprit.  

 

Joe has a higher yards per attempt, higher touchdown percentage, and lower interception percentage than Eli in the post-season.  By a pretty good margin, too, in all 3 stats.  Those are 3 of the 4 stats that make up the passer rating statistic.  Eli has the higher completion percentage, and the higher passer rating.  Really?  I'd rather have more yards per attempt, more touchdowns, and fewer INTs than to have more completions that went for fewer yards, fewer touchdowns, and more interceptions.  

 

It's all bulk numbers divided to efficiency in the end.  The number of catches it took to get those yards and touchdowns doesn't matter to me, but if you're averaging more yards per play, more touchdowns, and not turning the ball over as much, that's just simply BETTER to me, but the completion percentage part of it penalizes people who take shots downfield and inflates people who dink and dunk, and I don't think that's fair, or at all representative of the kind of play that it actually takes to WIN GAMES.  If you can't take a shot downfield, you're much less likely to win games.  You can have a high rating as a result of completion percentage and even lack of INTs if you're taking no RISKS, but you're not necessarily doing what it takes to win games.  Look at Ryan Tannehill, he doesn't turn the ball over much and he has a very high completion percentage, so his passer rating looks pretty high, but the fact is, he doesn't take risks, and if he needs to move the ball, he isn't capable of doing it, and that's why he doesn't win enough games to ever make the playoffs.  Dinking and dunking is nice for inflating your efficiency, but if that's ALL you can do, you're not good enough.  Passer rating doesn't tell the whole story for that very reason.

Great Post. I agree with basically 100% you said. I know it happens to every quarterback but it seems the Ravens are also always in the top 5 in drops as well which directly affects Flacco's completion percentage even more. The only thing I slightly disagree with is I think completion percentage is important in the first quarter. It's really important especially it seems for the Ravens to get into a rhythm. I'd love to see Kubiak draw up a couple easy completions for Flacco in the first quarter, something like him going 3-4 or 5-7 or something like that just to get him into a rhythm. After that I'm with you and couldn't care less. He was fearless against Pittsburgh with some of those throws and he's exactly right, "you must play to win, not play to not lose"

[flynismo]

I really like this article http://tikiandtierney.radio.cbssports.com/2015/01/05/rob-long-flacco-is-hall-of-fame-qb-in-postseason/. I have noticed Joe getting a bit more respect by the media. Though there still are a lot of haters that say his success is only because of defense, even this year. They'll only be able to use that for so long though.

If people still use the "amazing defenses" argument to this day, they are clearly clueless and that will never really go away among the common rabble. More enlightened fans however already know the deal

[D-Rey]

If people still use the "amazing defenses" argument to this day, they are clearly clueless and that will never really go away among the common rabble. More enlightened fans however already know the deal

Thats true, some just don't pay attention to how bad the Ravens defense has been this year.

[ravensdfan]

Why don't we see January Joe more often during the season? Personally, I think it is the difference in playcalling.

 

Flacco has more control and the offense is more aggressive than during the season. It's time to just let Joe play during the regular season as well. I think the results would be astounding.

[redrum52]

Why don't we see January Joe more often during the season? Personally, I think it is the difference in playcalling.

Flacco has more control and the offense is more aggressive than during the season. It's time to just let Joe play during the regular season as well. I think the results would be astounding.

I gotta agree with this. Maybe they're still trying out the full play ook during the season and by the playoffs, they know what has a higher success rate and they run with it. I also think he has more control over the offense as well. Its weird to see the flaws I knock him for vanish when playoffs come around. He no longer holds onto the ball, leads receivers and and is very decisive with where he's going. It seems we start opening up the quick passing game as well. Whatever it is, there is a noticeable difference in both his play and the playcalling.

[ravensnick]

Thats true, some just don't pay attention to how bad the Ravens defense has been this year.

To be fair, it still has been very good (11th in total yardage, 4th in run d, 26th in passd), but nothing like the defenses of the Reed/Lewis era.

[beanfigger]

Flacco's play does not diminish, and may in fact improve, in cold weather. Also, the fact that we are never the hot team with all eyes on us allows him to play with virtually nothing to lose. Those are two possible explanations for his postseason play being elevated. He plays better when regular season games are in crunch time, too, so it stands to reason he would play better in the playoffs when every second feels like crunch time.

[redrum52]

If people still use the "amazing defenses" argument to this day, they are clearly clueless and that will never really go away among the common rabble. More enlightened fans however already know the deal

Ray Rice?

[flynismo]

Ray Rice?

Agreed. Rice is clearly the reason Flacco is so talented

[K-Dog]

Agreed. Rice is clearly the reason Flacco is so talented

I blame Cam.

[StingerNLG]

Why don't we see January Joe more often during the season? Personally, I think it is the difference in playcalling.

 

Flacco has more control and the offense is more aggressive than during the season. It's time to just let Joe play during the regular season as well. I think the results would be astounding.

 

I still don't understand this, at least this year.   He's had career highs this year, and a number of zero interception/90+ QB rating games.   I still think we get fixated on the Texans game and forget he put the team in position to win both the Bengals and Chargers game only to be let down by the defense.   He's 2-1 against the Steelers this year, and did beat Miami which was a playoff-bound team at the time.  So I think you've seen playoff Joe a few times this year.

 

But there is something to the playcalling too.   Kubiak said it himself that against the Steelers game he wanted to let the offense loose and attack, attack, attack.   And it showed.   3rd and 1 and going for the endzone deep?   Torrey not dragging his foot is the only thing that stopped that from being a touchdown but it was a perfect playcall, and throw.  

 

Let's see what Kubiak dials up against the Patriots.   I bet you see a lot more underneath and quick throws to soften that defense up, then get Torrey downfield.  

[D-Rey]

To be fair, it still has been very good (11th in total yardage, 4th in run d, 26th in passd), but nothing like the defenses of the Reed/Lewis era.

It hasn't been horrible, just hasn't been up to past standards. At least not the pass defense. Run defense has been great.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

Ahh....

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Byrne-Identity-The-Bigger-The-Stage-The-Better-Flacco-Performs/c795bab1-314a-4d72-93f9-d445db94fbdc

 

Next week, he will set the record for the most career playoff starts (15) in a quarterback’s first seven seasons. He’ll also become the first quarterback in NFL history to start playoff games in six of his first seven seasons.

 

Not the most glamorous at first glance, til you really think about it

Just by way of clarification, you got one of your facts wrong. Joe had already became the 1st QB in

NFL history to start a playoff game in 6 of his 1st 7 seasons when he started against the Squeelers. So, your post was half right. No matter how you crack it, Cool Joe = Joe Cool = Cool Hand Joe =

January Joe = Joey Ice = Jersey Joe = WINNER! Eat some crow, Skip Bayless!

No Lewis, no Reed, no problem! Its nice to see so many people jumping on Joe's bandwagon. The Flacco factor is for real. Ravens 34 Patriots 24

[flynismo]

I still don't understand this, at least this year.   He's had career highs this year, and a number of zero interception/90+ QB rating games.   I still think we get fixated on the Texans game and forget he put the team in position to win both the Bengals and Chargers game only to be let down by the defense.   He's 2-1 against the Steelers this year, and did beat Miami which was a playoff-bound team at the time.  So I think you've seen playoff Joe a few times this year.

 

But there is something to the playcalling too.   Kubiak said it himself that against the Steelers game he wanted to let the offense loose and attack, attack, attack.   And it showed.   3rd and 1 and going for the endzone deep?   Torrey not dragging his foot is the only thing that stopped that from being a touchdown but it was a perfect playcall, and throw.  

 

Let's see what Kubiak dials up against the Patriots.   I bet you see a lot more underneath and quick throws to soften that defense up, then get Torrey downfield.  

Not only that, but his recievers didn't do him many favors either. Just imagine what his stats would have been with a lot of other teams' WR group

[beanfigger]

I still don't understand this, at least this year. He's had career highs this year, and a number of zero interception/90+ QB rating games. I still think we get fixated on the Texans game and forget he put the team in position to win both the Bengals and Chargers game only to be let down by the defense. He's 2-1 against the Steelers this year, and did beat Miami which was a playoff-bound team at the time. So I think you've seen playoff Joe a few times this year.

But there is something to the playcalling too. Kubiak said it himself that against the Steelers game he wanted to let the offense loose and attack, attack, attack. And it showed. 3rd and 1 and going for the endzone deep? Torrey not dragging his foot is the only thing that stopped that from being a touchdown but it was a perfect playcall, and throw.

Let's see what Kubiak dials up against the Patriots. I bet you see a lot more underneath and quick throws to soften that defense up, then get Torrey downfield.

I see your point with this. It could certainly be argued that this weekend wasn't even Joe's best game this season (though I think it was the team's best game overall). I think it's just a percentage and averages thing with postseason games. He has great games in the regular season, of course. It's just that the percentage of those games is lower than in the postseason throughout his career. It's just a comfort level in the playoffs that isn't quite there in the regular season, where you never know when a bad game is coming. He's had bad playoff games, too, and he surely will again at some point. They are far more sporadic and less likely to occur in January, though. I think that's where the perception comes from.

[StingerNLG]

Not only that, but his recievers didn't do him many favors either. Just imagine what his stats would have been with a lot of other teams' WR group

 

Or Dennis Pitta.   We know he was 14 yards short of 4000 this year, and that could have been any one of the WR's dropped passes.  Some of those would also be touchdowns that were dropped in the endzone so we don't know if he would have passed 30 TD's

 

Keep in mind too if the defense makes two stops, the Ravens are also 12-4 instead of 10-6, both being AFC teams and putting them at least as the #3 seed, maybe more.

[beanfigger]

Not only that, but his recievers didn't do him many favors either. Just imagine what his stats would have been with a lot of other teams' WR group

With a good line up front, Joe will put us in position to win and advance every year. If you want pretty stats, then we need help from his targets. That's how I see it.

[StingerNLG]

I see your point with this. It could certainly be argued that this weekend wasn't even Joe's best game this season (though I think it was the team's best game overall). I think it's just a percentage and averages thing with postseason games. He has great games in the regular season, of course. It's just that the percentage of those games is lower than in the postseason throughout his career. It's just a comfort level in the playoffs that isn't quite there in the regular season, where you never know when a bad game is coming. He's had bad playoff games, too, and he surely will again at some point. They are far more sporadic and less likely to occur in January, though. I think that's where the perception comes from.

 

Well sure.  But that's just mathematics, there are less playoff games played than regular season games.   So there is more of a margin for bad games to lower that percentage.

 

I know Joe is going to have a bad game here and there.   But I also know ALL QB's do.   It's interesting how everyone is slobbering over Andrew Luck right now because of his game against the Bengals.    And he us regarded as a future superstar in the league.   But his QB Rating for the year is only 5 points higher than Flacco, and it's under 100.   And if you look at his individual games,  he had a 3 game stretch toward the end of the year with a 59.8, 76.5, and 41.7 rating.   Flacco has rarely had back to back bad games.   Now Luck has more yards and more TD's, but he's also thrown the ball 62 more times.   What's interesting is that Flacco's completion percentage is higher for the year as well.

 

And there is the fact that The Ravens beat Luck in 2012 on the way to the SB means Luck cannot take Joe's spot as the only QB to win a playoff game in his first 7 years.  

 

So all I'm saying is that some folks (not you specifically) tend to focus on one or two bad games Joe has among all his good ones, and they forget that statistically he isn't as far off his competition than people think.

[beanfigger]

Well sure. But that's just mathematics, there are less playoff games played than regular season games. So there is more of a margin for bad games to lower that percentage.

I know Joe is going to have a bad game here and there. But I also know ALL QB's do. It's interesting how everyone is slobbering over Andrew Luck right now because of his game against the Bengals. And he us regarded as a future superstar in the league. But his QB Rating for the year is only 5 points higher than Flacco, and it's under 100. And if you look at his individual games, he had a 3 game stretch toward the end of the year with a 59.8, 76.5, and 41.7 rating. Flacco has rarely had back to back bad games. Now Luck has more yards and more TD's, but he's also thrown the ball 62 more times. What's interesting is that Flacco's completion percentage is higher for the year as well.

And there is the fact that The Ravens beat Luck in 2012 on the way to the SB means Luck cannot take Joe's spot as the only QB to win a playoff game in his first 7 years.

So all I'm saying is that some folks (not you specifically) tend to focus on one or two bad games Joe has among all his good ones, and they forget that statistically he isn't as far off his competition than people think.

I don't disagree with you. I'm just explaining others' reasoning. He has been over 95 rating in like 8 of 9 playoff games, and over 100 with multiple TDs and 0 interceptions in five straight. He has had good regular season games with more regularity this season, but it's still not anywhere close to that kind of run. He's not as bad in regular seasons as some believe, but he is better in terms of consistency in the playoffs.

[StingerNLG]

I don't disagree with you. I'm just explaining others' reasoning. He has been over 95 rating in like 8 of 9 playoff games, and over 100 with multiple TDs and 0 interceptions in five straight. He has had good regular season games with more regularity this season, but it's still not anywhere close to that kind of run. He's not as bad in regular seasons as some believe, but he is better in terms of consistency in the playoffs.

 

Well..............actually............ 

 

This year Joe has had 8 games this year with ZERO interceptions.   And, he's had a 3 game stretch of that.   That's pretty close.

 

He also has had a three game stretch of posting 100+ QB Rating games (which just happen to be 2 of those 3 0 INT games and then the Miami game), and 7 games overall of 100+.   Three of those were over 120, and one of them was the Tampa Bay game where it was a near perfect 149.7.

 

He also had 3 more games over 90.

 

And take his games since the bye:

 

120.7

104.9

106.8

99.4

41.7 (We know which game that is)

107.6

 

I get what you're saying about his playoff stats, and they are the best in the league (and some of the best in NFL history) hands down.   I just look at the stats and see that he has had a great year and while QB Rating wise it's his second best year (2010 he was 93.6, this year 91.0), you can see his numbers are on par with a lot of the playoff field for the regular season.   That's all.  He's more consistent than people think, we just tend to remember the bad games more than we remember the stretches of good ones.

 

To be perfectly honest, looking at everyone's stats including the bad games Manning, Luck, and Brady had, there is no reason Flacco shouldn't have been in the pro-bowl conversation this year.   BUT, it's a popularity contest, and Flacco won't have his turn until Manning and Brady retire.

[redrum52]

I see your point with this. It could certainly be argued that this weekend wasn't even Joe's best game this season (though I think it was the team's best game overall). I think it's just a percentage and averages thing with postseason games. He has great games in the regular season, of course. It's just that the percentage of those games is lower than in the postseason throughout his career. It's just a comfort level in the playoffs that isn't quite there in the regular season, where you never know when a bad game is coming. He's had bad playoff games, too, and he surely will again at some point. They are far more sporadic and less likely to occur in January, though. I think that's where the perception comes from.

I'd say this is a top 2 or 3 game this season. Stats don't mean everything. This is game where if you watch, you can tell how much better his play was. He was sharp, passes crisp and besides the trying to make a play when he fumbled, his decision make was top notch to me. He recognized the formaformations and knew what to do quickly.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

I'd say this is a top 2 or 3 game this season. Stats don't mean everything. This is game where if you watch, you can tell how much better his play was. He was sharp, passes crisp and besides the trying to make a play when he fumbled, his decision make was top notch to me. He recognized the formaformations and knew what to do quickly.

 

Some of the throws he made last Saturday were simply superb. The touch, the placement, the pocket presence, getting the ball out quickly. As others have touched on, had T. Smith had the sense to drag his left toe, that was another touch down pass, too. 

 

He will need to be on point again this week, but there's great confidence in him to play well - and with good reason!