Is Matt Elam a bust?

[Ravenseconbeast]

I've seen a number of reporters remark that Elam is playing better, is in good shape, and has confidence.

Of course, this is minicamp. The question of tackling lingers. With the number of 3+ safety sets we've run, the backups are important

 

Whether Elam wants to believe it or not, this will be his last year to come out of the season with a bang, or pack his bag back to his parents house.   Its over for him if he does not show up this year.   

My disappointment with him is almost as same as Mt.Cody.   Guy with a lengthy and legitimate college history but fails hard on doing the riggers of NFL work.    

[1/28/01]

Been a while for me. Yes.

[gabefergy]

I think we agree that he'll have a role, it's just a matter of how big. Personally I don't think the Ravens have given up on Elam nearly to the point the fans have and I personally think he'll show his true potential this year. I don't think the coaches see Hill and Lewis as the only starters at safety. I think they view it as they have 4 starting caliber Safeties with Lewis, Brooks, Hill and Elam. I think they all see significant time on defense this year unless they prove not worth with play. Of course Lewis and Hill will see more snaps.

Well they essentially benched him last year until he had to play because of injuries. Maybe he does improve, but I don't think they have a ton of confidence in Elam based on how they handled him last year and going out and signing a FA to start at safety.

[Ravensfan23]

Well they essentially benched him last year until he had to play because of injuries. Maybe he does improve, but I don't think they have a ton of confidence in Elam based on how they handled him last year and going out and signing a FA to start at safety.

 

Signing Lewis had more to do with Brooks not being ready and this secondary needing a true ball hawking FS imo. As far as Elam losing his job last season, yes that's true, but that doesn't have much to do with what will happen this year. As much as fans talk about coach speak, they are the ones who make the decision on who plays and they have been the ones praising Elam. Pees has said that Elam is having the best offseason of his career and even Harbs has mentioned how the guy has worked extremely hard thus far. Elam is taking first team reps, you don't give first team reps to a guy you've given up on. So if Elam continues to impress and plays well in preseason, Pees will find a significant role for him on defense. He won't just be some ST guy and see a hand full of defenses snaps. 

 

I've heard that Pees is using Elam around the LOS and blitzing a lot more. That's good for Elam imo. There is no doubt that the Ravens have been disappointed with Elam thus far, but I think they are a long ways from giving up on him.

[stampedehero]

With a veteran like Kendrick Lewis here, Elam  will not be vital as 014 season. I think the pressure is lessened with Lewis taking his starting spot.  He may flourish in special packages where solo  tackling is not the main ingredient for his role..

[gabefergy]

Signing Lewis had more to do with Brooks not being ready and this secondary needing a true ball hawking FS imo. As far as Elam losing his job last season, yes that's true, but that doesn't have much to do with what will happen this year. As much as fans talk about coach speak, they are the ones who make the decision on who plays and they have been the ones praising Elam. Pees has said that Elam is having the best offseason of his career and even Harbs has mentioned how the guy has worked extremely hard thus far. Elam is taking first team reps, you don't give first team reps to a guy you've given up on. So if Elam continues to impress and plays well in preseason, Pees will find a significant role for him on defense. He won't just be some ST guy and see a hand full of defenses snaps.

I've heard that Pees is using Elam around the LOS and blitzing a lot more. That's good for Elam imo. There is no doubt that the Ravens have been disappointed with Elam thus far, but I think they are a long ways from giving up on him.

If Elam was actually good last year do yiu think they go out and sign a FA safety to be a starter? I don't think so. They had to replace a starter and didn't trust Elam in that role.

I also don't care about coachspeak. It means absolutely nothing.

[The Mom Gene]

With a veteran like Kendrick Lewis here, Elam  will not be vital as 014 season. I think the pressure is lessened with Lewis taking his starting spot.  He may flourish in special packages where solo  tackling is not the main ingredient for his role..

I agree totally...

 

If Elam was actually good last year do yiu think they go out and sign a FA safety to be a starter? I don't think so. They had to replace a starter and didn't trust Elam in that role.

I also don't care about coachspeak. It means absolutely nothing.

I don't think that judging Elam's ability had much to do with them "reloading" the secondary.  Simply said, with the season we had last year, and the fact that we basically lost an attempt at another Super Bowl due to our lack of depth due to injuries....  They STACKED that secondary to find the best of the best available.

[BmoreBird22]

If Elam was actually good last year do yiu think they go out and sign a FA safety to be a starter? I don't think so. They had to replace a starter and didn't trust Elam in that role.

I also don't care about coachspeak. It means absolutely nothing.

I agree with Ravensfan23 in saying that I think that has to do more with Brooks and the need for a more reliable FS than it has to do with Elam. I mean, Hill can function in the FS role, but I personally just don't think that's the most ideal spot for him and you'd have to think the coaching staff agrees since they went out and got a guy who is pretty well considered to be a center fielder, not a strong safety. If they really were having issues with Elam, I think they'd have signed a SS and kept Hill at FS, but they did the opposite. 

Now, with Hill at SS, Elam isn't likely to see too much time, but I don't think the signing of Lewis was an indictment of Elam's future.

[Ravensfan23]

If Elam was actually good last year do yiu think they go out and sign a FA safety to be a starter? I don't think so. They had to replace a starter and didn't trust Elam in that role.

I also don't care about coachspeak. It means absolutely nothing.

Who said he was good last year? I think it's safe to say anytime a coach or GM says they're disappointed in you that u didn't play well. Even if Elam played well the Ravens would have still attacked the FS position because Elam is a SS and Hill is probably the best cover Safety on the team so FS would have been a need whether Elam played well or not,hence why a guy like Brooks was drafted in the first place.

I'm not telling you you're wrong because it's just an opinion. Again nobody really cares about coach speak but they are the ones who make the decisions. My view on it is that if the plan for Elam to be just a ST guy he wouldn't be getting 1st team reps, especially when both Lewis and Hill have been present the entire offseason. But we'll see

[Ravensfan23]

With a veteran like Kendrick Lewis here, Elam  will not be vital as 014 season. I think the pressure is lessened with Lewis taking his starting spot.  He may flourish in special packages where solo  tackling is not the main ingredient for his role..

I think that'll be the plan. Have Elam in a type of rover position that keeps him close to the LOS and allows him to blitz often. Most of his coverage would be in zone or covering backs or shallow crosses. This type role typically wouldn't see much time but with the amount of pass happy teams and if Elam performs well I could see Pees finding a way to get Elam on the field without taking Arrington off.

[gabefergy]

Who said he was good last year? I think it's safe to say anytime a coach or GM says they're disappointed in you that u didn't play well. Even if Elam played well the Ravens would have still attacked the FS position because Elam is a SS and Hill is probably the best cover Safety on the team so FS would have been a need whether Elam played well or not,hence why a guy like Brooks was drafted in the first place.

I'm not telling you you're wrong because it's just an opinion. Again nobody really cares about coach speak but they are the ones who make the decisions. My view on it is that if the plan for Elam to be just a ST guy he wouldn't be getting 1st team reps, especially when both Lewis and Hill have been present the entire offseason. But we'll se

I hope nobody said he was good last year, but you are inferring that the FO felt like Elam could be a starting safety which is a far cry from what his play indicated and what the team stated in the offseason. Hill is a perfectly capable FS. He played there the majority of the time for the NYG and and he played there for the Ravens last year.

 

I really doubt the Ravens would have "attacked" the safety position if they felt strongly about Elam. They could have re-signed someone like Jeromy Miles who was a solid back-up instead of going out and signing a FA from another team which Ozzie hates doing. 

 

Nothing the Ravens have done suggests they have much faith in him. They want him to improve obviously because at this point he is a very disappointing first round pick headed towards Bustsville. They will give him an opportunity to compete because that is how the Ravens do things, but he is going to have to earn it. 

 

Anything the coaches are saying about him now is frankly meaningless because his biggest deficiency was his awful tackling, something that can't be evaluated in non-contact OTAs. The minute he steps on the field in a meaningful game and misses another tackle he is in trouble.

[Ravensfan23]

I hope nobody said he was good last year, but you are inferring that the FO felt like Elam could be a starting safety which is a far cry from what his play indicated and what the team stated in the offseason. Hill is a perfectly capable FS. He played there the majority of the time for the NYG and and he played there for the Ravens last year.

 

I really doubt the Ravens would have "attacked" the safety position if they felt strongly about Elam. They could have re-signed someone like Jeromy Miles who was a solid back-up instead of going out and signing a FA from another team which Ozzie hates doing. 

 

Nothing the Ravens have done suggests they have much faith in him. They want him to improve obviously because at this point he is a very disappointing first round pick headed towards Bustsville. They will give him an opportunity to compete because that is how the Ravens do things, but he is going to have to earn it. 

 

Anything the coaches are saying about him now is frankly meaningless because his biggest deficiency was his awful tackling, something that can't be evaluated in non-contact OTAs. The minute he steps on the field in a meaningful game and misses another tackle he is in trouble.

Again that's just your opinion. Guys like Chikie Brown and Asa Jackson weren't splitting time with Jimmy Smith last year in practice even though we needed them to step up. So I personally think that Elam being allowed to share 1st team reps with Hill means the coaches while disappointed, haven't given up on him. That's all I'm saying.

You aren't saying anything different from what I have in terms of the coach speak thing. Of course Elam will need to show it during real football. If he doesn't then like you said he's in trouble. But if they are giving him a chance to compete then I have to think if he does what they ask of him, he won't just be a sub who gets a handful of snaps.

Coach speak might be meaningless right now, but if by chance what they are saying about him is legit, then why wouldn't they play him?

[gabefergy]

Again that's just your opinion. Guys like Chikie Brown and Asa Jackson weren't splitting time with Jimmy Smith last year in practice even though we needed them to step up. So I personally think that Elam being allowed to share 1st team reps with Hill means the coaches while disappointed, haven't given up on him. That's all I'm saying.

You aren't saying anything different from what I have in terms of the coach speak thing. Of course Elam will need to show it during real football. If he doesn't then like you said he's in trouble. But if they are giving him a chance to compete then I have to think if he does what they ask of him, he won't just be a sub who gets a handful of snaps.

Coach speak might be meaningless right now, but if by chance what they are saying about him is legit, then why wouldn't they play him?

Chykie Brown and Asa Jackson weren't first round picks.

If he is actually playing well, he should see the field. Maybe he will win a starting a job, or maybe he just sees time in certain packages, or maybe he just plays ST.

I don't have much faith in him because he hasn't earned it to this point. It's too early to form an opinion on whether he has actually improved so until I see it, I'm going to go with what I know from the last time he was on the field costing us a chance to go to the SB.

[stampedehero]

If Elam was actually good last year do yiu think they go out and sign a FA safety to be a starter? I don't think so. They had to replace a starter and didn't trust Elam in that role.

I also don't care about coachspeak. It means absolutely nothing.

I think the purpose of coach speak is intended to spoon feed the media. The media in turn conveys that to a player within their interview. 

[stampedehero]

Chykie Brown and Asa Jackson weren't first round picks.

If he is actually playing well, he should see the field. Maybe he will win a starting a job, or maybe he just sees time in certain packages, or maybe he just plays ST.

I don't have much faith in him because he hasn't earned it to this point. It's too early to form an opinion on whether he has actually improved so until I see it, I'm going to go with what I know from the last time he was on the field costing us a chance to go to the SB.

Yeah   All with you   He, in particular was a cog in that loss.   In that game our secondary was owned.  Big P for Pathetic.  Noticed your 17K posts.  Man you've been around town .  

[gabefergy]

Yeah   All with you   He, in particular was a cog in that loss.   In that game our secondary was owned.  Big P for Pathetic.  Noticed your 17K posts.  Man you've been around town .  

I think I just have too much time on my hands, and I like to talk about the Ravens lol

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

I think Elam will finally be given a chance to do what he does best, but won't be able to unseat Hill.

Hill is just a better all around player with much higher upside. I see Elam being used in sub packages blitzing out of the slot and playing close to the line of scrimmage.

He could be a useful weapon if used properly, but I don't think he'll ever be the full time safety he was drafted to be. Lewis brings something no other safety on the team does currently, so he'll start and get most of the reps at FS. Hill is too good to take off the field often.

Bust is a relative term. Since I don't think he'll ever be the answer at SS then I'd say yes he's a bust. But that doesn't mean we can't make use of him in certain situations, where he can be an effective weapon by maximizing his niche skill set and limiting his deficiencies.

[Ravensfan23]

Chykie Brown and Asa Jackson weren't first round picks.

If he is actually playing well, he should see the field. Maybe he will win a starting a job, or maybe he just sees time in certain packages, or maybe he just plays ST.

I don't have much faith in him because he hasn't earned it to this point. It's too early to form an opinion on whether he has actually improved so until I see it, I'm going to go with what I know from the last time he was on the field costing us a chance to go to the SB.

 

This sums up my entire point. Most fans have all but wasted their hands with Elam and if it were up to the fans, Elam wouldn't see much time with the first team even in practice regardless if he's a first rounder or not. However I don't think the coaches have given up on Elam nearly to the tune of what some fans have. Are they disappointed in what he's shown thus far? Yes, but that doesn't mean he is no longer in the plans for helping this team win moving forward. 

 

It's too early for you or I to form an opinion but the reality is that coaches already have an idea of what they want to see from Elam and where they expect him to make an impact on this defense. Tackling isn't the only issue Elam had, that's just the area that showed itself the most to fans. However there are areas that Elam can improve upon that will show up in OTAs and mini camps, like being more decisive, having a better understanding of the defense, being able to recognize route concepts better and being a better student of the game among other things. So if Elam has shown improvement in these areas thus far this offseason and the coaches are happy with him, which you nor idea truly know if they are or it's just talk, then they'll give him the opportunity to get on the field. If for no other reason then the reason you gave for him giving him first team reps, he's a 1st round pick and they haven't given up on him being a major part of this defense yet. 

 

What does this all mean in terms of how many snaps Elam will see this season, that all boils down to how well he handles whatever role they place upon him, but if he does perform well in practice, preseason and early in the season, I can't see the coaches saying....oh he played so poorly last season, we are just gonna ignore how well he's currently doing and only play him on ST or give him 2-3 snaps per game because he proved from 2013-2014 not to be a really good player. 

[Ravensfan23]

I think Elam will finally be given a chance to do what he does best, but won't be able to unseat Hill.

Hill is just a better all around player with much higher upside. I see Elam being used in sub packages blitzing out of the slot and playing close to the line of scrimmage.

He could be a useful weapon if used properly, but I don't think he'll ever be the full time safety he was drafted to be. Lewis brings something no other safety on the team does currently, so he'll start and get most of the reps at FS. Hill is too good to take off the field often.

Bust is a relative term. Since I don't think he'll ever be the answer at SS then I'd say yes he's a bust. But that doesn't mean we can't make use of him in certain situations, where he can be an effective weapon by maximizing his niche skill set and limiting his deficiencies.

 

 

I get  what you are saying and agree with all points except for him ever being the answer at SS. Now I don't wanna make it seem like i'm hitching my wagon to Elam because he has so much to prove, but I do think there is time for him to be the long term answer at SS. I agree that Hill is the better overall player and if you listen to Will Hill speak he seems to love Baltimore. Even went as far to call Ozzie his best friend and say how this organization has basically made him a better man and father in his short time here. However if he has the type of season I expect him to have I think he may price himself out of Baltimore, especially if he gets a ring. So the Ravens will need Elam to step up and be that player they thought they were getting when they selected him, even if they are planning on re-signing Hill. 

 

Although the situations aren't identical they are similar enough to make note of. Jimmy Smith couldn't beat out Cary Williams for a couple years for whatever reasons and a ton of fans were ready to write Jimmy off. Now Jimmy is a top CB in the NFL and a key cog in our defense. So there is still hope for Elam. The talent is there, he just has to put it all together and to your point, I think Pees puts him in position to have great success this season.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

I get what you are saying and agree with all points except for him ever being the answer at SS. Now I don't wanna make it seem like i'm hitching my wagon to Elam because he has so much to prove, but I do think there is time for him to be the long term answer at SS. I agree that Hill is the better overall player and if you listen to Will Hill speak he seems to love Baltimore. Even went as far to call Ozzie his best friend and say how this organization has basically made him a better man and father in his short time here. However if he has the type of season I expect him to have I think he may price himself out of Baltimore, especially if he gets a ring. So the Ravens will need Elam to step up and be that player they thought they were getting when they selected him, even if they are planning on re-signing Hill.

Although the situations aren't identical they are similar enough to make note of. Jimmy Smith couldn't beat out Cary Williams for a couple years for whatever reasons and a ton of fans were ready to write Jimmy off. Now Jimmy is a top CB in the NFL and a key cog in our defense. So there is still hope for Elam. The talent is there, he just has to put it all together and to your point, I think Pees puts him in position to have great success this season.

Trust me, the Hill situation is in the back of my mind for next offseason as well. I fully expect him to be a top safety this coming year - and if so who knows if we'll mark him as a priority to retain.

Another situation closely tied to that is Flaccos contract extension. If they can lower his cap significantly with an extension there may be enough money to retain Hill, resign Yanda and maybe even KO though we may likely have to pick one or the other.

But simply because hill may leave and the SS position opens up does not mean Elam will become an NFL caliber starter.

I see Brooks more likely to take over and play alongside Lewis in 2016 should Hill leave. Drafting Brooks in the 2nd round just a year after Elam, to me, is a clear indication that the FO felt very strongly that they missed the mark on Elam because Brooks is a much better natural fit at SS than FS and Elam should never sniff the field as a FS.

He's a liability in coverage and hasn't shown me anything that he'll improve. His technique is awful, is routinely out of position, take poor angles when closing, misjudges the ball... I mean literally everything you could do wrong he does more frequently than not.

Mix that with the tackling issues, the lack of understanding of the defense... These just aren't things you can have on the back end of your defense. He's purely an in-the-box safety who can make splash plays. With the way we run our defense with more interchangeable safeties, I can't see Elam improving enough to be a viable starter - if he is it will be purely out of necessity like you mentioned - but that doesn't prove Elam's value.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

I get what you are saying and agree with all points except for him ever being the answer at SS. Now I don't wanna make it seem like i'm hitching my wagon to Elam because he has so much to prove, but I do think there is time for him to be the long term answer at SS. I agree that Hill is the better overall player and if you listen to Will Hill speak he seems to love Baltimore. Even went as far to call Ozzie his best friend and say how this organization has basically made him a better man and father in his short time here. However if he has the type of season I expect him to have I think he may price himself out of Baltimore, especially if he gets a ring. So the Ravens will need Elam to step up and be that player they thought they were getting when they selected him, even if they are planning on re-signing Hill.

Although the situations aren't identical they are similar enough to make note of. Jimmy Smith couldn't beat out Cary Williams for a couple years for whatever reasons and a ton of fans were ready to write Jimmy off. Now Jimmy is a top CB in the NFL and a key cog in our defense. So there is still hope for Elam. The talent is there, he just has to put it all together and to your point, I think Pees puts him in position to have great success this season.

Trust me, the Hill situation is in the back of my mind for next offseason as well. I fully expect him to be a top safety this coming year - and if so who knows if we'll mark him as a priority to retain.

Another situation closely tied to that is Flaccos contract extension. If they can lower his cap significantly with an extension there may be enough money to retain Hill, resign Yanda and maybe even KO though we may likely have to pick one or the other.

But simply because hill may leave and the SS position opens up does not mean Elam will become an NFL caliber starter.

I see Brooks more likely to take over and play alongside Lewis in 2016 should Hill leave. Drafting Brooks in the 2nd round just a year after Elam, to me, is a clear indication that the FO felt very strongly that they missed the mark on Elam because Brooks is a much better natural fit at SS than FS and Elam should never sniff the field as a FS.

He's a liability in coverage and hasn't shown me anything that he'll improve. His technique is awful, is routinely out of position, take poor angles when closing, misjudges the ball... I mean literally everything you could do wrong he does more frequently than not.

Mix that with the tackling issues, the lack of understanding of the defense... These just aren't things you can have on the back end of your defense. He's purely an in-the-box safety who can make splash plays. With the way we run our defense with more interchangeable safeties, I can't see Elam improving enough to be a viable starter - if he is it will be purely out of necessity like you mentioned - but that doesn't prove Elam's value.

And of course anything can happen, players improve, there are late bloomers, etc... But I can only go by what I've actually seen in real, meaningful football games - not summer OTAs with starters missing, playing in shorts, against an offense not yet on the same page with it's coordinator.

And if your eyes are open, there's nothing yet to indicate Elam will ever improve enough to be a reliable starter in this defense. If he had an Earl Thomas?? Maybe. But Ed Reeds aren't coming out anymore.

[Ravensfan23]

Trust me, the Hill situation is in the back of my mind for next offseason as well. I fully expect him to be a top safety this coming year - and if so who knows if we'll mark him as a priority to retain.

 

 

Oh I'm not saying that if Hill walks that Elam would automatically step in. Again he'll have to prove he's capable of being the player the Ravens envisioned. I'm just saying if he does improve it'll make the blow of Hill walking a little lighter. 

 

As for Brooks, he was drafted in the 3rd round and imo he was drafted because the Ravens needed young talent at the Safety position. From what I know about Ozzie, he wouldn't attack a position in the draft to cover up a mistake from another draft. He'd just attack that position with a low risk high value veteran much like he did by signing Hill. Also Brooks is an interchangable safety much like Will Hill is. He's more then capable of playing FS and I strongly believe that's why he was drafted. Even reports of him taking 1st team reps in practice thus far have come at FS, not SS. Is is capable of playing SS, yes much like Hill can play both. 

 

In terms of saying what Elam will or won't be, I leave that to guys like yourself. I see every bit of the talent the Ravens drafted Elam for, but I see a guy who didn't really know how to be a NFL safety his first 2 years. Does that mean he'll never learn? who knows. From what I see in Elam, one of his biggest issues is the fact that he plays out of control and the Pro game just moves too fast for him. In college he could get away with throwing his shoulder into a guy to make a tackle or just make plays off his reputation. In the NFL he going against guys bigger, stronger and faster. Imho Matt Elam was still playing College Football his first 2 years with the Ravens. Guys would catch passes in front of him and he wouldn't even touch them down as if the play was already dead. Webb spoke highly of the fact that Elam is carrying himself more like a pro right now, so we'll see how things go. But make no mistake, I'm fully aware that Elam has more to prove then what a few practices in shorts will determine. I just wouldn't classify him as a bust right now. 

[Edgar]

Just watched the week three Browns match up. Elam was dreadful. The team performed poorly overall but Elam.....unwatchable.