Michael Crabtree?

[rmcjacket23]

Expect an increase in the salary cap by at least 10-12 million

Yes, but it goes up by that amount for everybody, so the cost of FAs generally increases as well.

[Tru11]

The Mom Gene, on 27 Dec 2014 - 4:17 PM, said:The Mom Gene, on 27 Dec 2014 - 4:17 PM, said:

Yeah, but he was suspended for one, or part of one,  if I remember correctly???

 

no he set a record for longest hold out in 49ers history because he wanted more money then they where offering lol.

 

he could have been suspended for the 2012 NFC championship game and SB but charges where dropped and no suspension.

 

sounds like dream to have on our team right lol

 

link : http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/25/san-francisco-district-attorney-no-charges-for-michael-crabtree/

[Mt. Crushmore]

I'll pass on Crabtree.  A team is going to overpay him.  At best, he is a good #2 WR, not a #1.  In addition, there are major issues concerning effort.

[Ct..bleedpurple]

I think crabtree will be a upgrade over torrey it depends how much more money he wants

[Tenacious Faulker]

he has 1 1000 yard season in 6 years and boldin hasent been there for 2 and same goes for keapernick.

 

if he cant beat the #1 corner 1on1, what makes you think he will beat double teams?

 

Also he doesent get bombs alone..

Boldin is actually avg more yards per catch so that argument wont fly lol.

 

also neither marlon,kamar,camp and crabs are deep threats.

none of them can stretch a defense.

we will face the same problems we had with mason , boldin and housh only now we got worse RouteRunners lol.

 

Why would the ravens take the risk on a guy less productive then what they have now and who will cost more as well?

Not to mention seems to be injury prone as well and has the risk of being a locker room cancer?

 

At least Dez has been really productive and healthy lol.

I can see why people would take the risk on him.

 

Torrey Smith has out produced Crabtree so far and torrey brings a skill set way harder to find then that of crabtree.

Don;t forget the mess that the 49ers were when he got there.  Singletary/Alex Smith was a horrible combo.  Jim Harbaugh worked on the short game for Smith when he arrived.  Then they moved to Kaep who is largely known as inaccurate meaning he relied on Boldin in the slot for the high percentage throws more often. Fewer throws (and good throws) = fewer stats.  Crabs was injured for most of 2011 and 2013.  There have been legit reasons for his lower than expected productivity.

 

I still leave it in Ozzie's hands.  While he's had his troubles in drafting/cultivating receivers, he knows how to find decent season vets. 

[Dewy101]

Yes, but it goes up by that amount for everybody, so the cost of FAs generally increases as well.

It doesn't effect the salary of players already with contracts. So carrying Webb and Ngata won't be all that difficult. Although they do need a pay cut.

[Tenacious Faulker]

As is typical, price tag will probably be an issue.

 

Will arguably be one of the more sought out WRs on the market, and will probably not a have a problem getting pretty good money.

Its a certainty, but I'm advocating for Ozzie to be aggressive in getting that #1 playmaker. 

 

Joe's cap hit is a smidge less than this year's before ballooning to $28.5M in 2016.  He'll likely need to restructure that year anyway.

[D_UP]

IMO Crabtree isn't a number one. To me he is a glorified possession receiver.

[Inqui]

IMO Crabtree isn't a number one. To me he is a glorified possession receiver.

I wouldn't mind a glorified possession receiver. Keep the chains moving and let the fantasy nuts obsess over someone else.

[AsianRice]

Crabtree sucks; he was out-physical and beat by Jimmy who wasn't yet to form a probowl form or shut down corner during that time.....

 

If he is a classy and blue collar, I'll consider....but he is a total diva...

[Tru11]

Tenacious Faulker, on 27 Dec 2014 - 8:01 PM, said:

Don;t forget the mess that the 49ers were when he got there.  Singletary/Alex Smith was a horrible combo.  Jim Harbaugh worked on the short game for Smith when he arrived.  Then they moved to Kaep who is largely known as inaccurate meaning he relied on Boldin in the slot for the high percentage throws more often. Fewer throws (and good throws) = fewer stats.  Crabs was injured for most of 2011 and 2013.  There have been legit reasons for his lower than expected productivity.

 

I still leave it in Ozzie's hands.  While he's had his troubles in drafting/cultivating receivers, he knows how to find decent season vets. 

 

he was part of the reason the 49ers where a mess.

heck before he was part of the team he was acting like a diva.

having the record for longest hold out in 49ers history isent exactly something to be proud off.

 

2011  he missed 1 game, i hardly qualify that as most of the season lol

 

also his targets are pretty much on par with his career AVG.

 

flacco career completion % is pretty much the same as Keapernick lol.

 

i doubt ozzie will touch a receiver with little production , diva behaviour, injury concers, looking for a big payday and questionable behaviour.

[reed20]

I'd take him for some depth, yes. We still need a true #1 though. Personally, I want a top tier receiver somehow.

[rmcjacket23]

It doesn't effect the salary of players already with contracts. So carrying Webb and Ngata won't be all that difficult. Although they do need a pay cut.

Correct. My point was that while the salary cap will increase, it will also increase for everybody. As the salary cap increases, the cost of re-signing players or adding FA players goes up as well.

[rmcjacket23]

Its a certainty, but I'm advocating for Ozzie to be aggressive in getting that #1 playmaker. 

 

Joe's cap hit is a smidge less than this year's before ballooning to $28.5M in 2016.  He'll likely need to restructure that year anyway.

Yeah, but I just don't see that playmaker coming from FA, and I'm not even convinced that this offseason will be the season the Ravens make that a priority, given that they haven't really prioritized it in several years AND the fact that we basically have a top ten offense without one.

 

2016 will be a very interesting year for the Ravens. I agree that in an ideal world Joe's contract would get extended in that season, and I think ultimately that's what will happen. But I've said all along that basically, in 2016, Joe has all the leverage in negotiations. There's really no possible way that Joe gets released, so he knows that he could basically turn down any extension that the Ravens would offer him and force them to play out his contract in 2016. He would make $18M that season alone, so if he really wanted to, he can just force the Ravens to keep him at the $28M cap number.

 

The Ravens really don't have any leverage in those negotiations until 2017, though I think obviously both sides would like to get an extension done in 2016.

[Tenacious Faulker]

he was part of the reason the 49ers where a mess.

heck before he was part of the team he was acting like a diva.

having the record for longest hold out in 49ers history isent exactly something to be proud off.

 

2011  he missed 1 game, i hardly qualify that as most of the season lol

 

also his targets are pretty much on par with his career AVG.

 

flacco career completion % is pretty much the same as Keapernick lol.

 

i doubt ozzie will touch a receiver with little production , diva behaviour, injury concers, looking for a big payday and questionable behaviour.

You might be right about Ozzie, but the coach TOTALLY affects the production of a player in how they're utilized.  Beyond that, the QB is a major factor as well.  

 

Case in point.  Torrey Smith.  He finally broke 1000 yards last year.  The Ravens sign Steve Smith and Kubiak inserts him into much of his playbook.  Now he's a red zone target and back to less than 800 yards a season.  He clearly hasn't been the beneficiary of the new offense.

[Tru11]

Tenacious Faulker, on 28 Dec 2014 - 06:05 AM, said:

You might be right about Ozzie, but the coach TOTALLY affects the production of a player in how they're utilized.  Beyond that, the QB is a major factor as well.  

 

Case in point.  Torrey Smith.  He finally broke 1000 yards last year.  The Ravens sign Steve Smith and Kubiak inserts him into much of his playbook.  Now he's a red zone target and back to less than 800 yards a season.  He clearly hasn't been the beneficiary of the new offense.

 

torrey had 1000 yards last season because he was the only healthy receiver the ravens had for most of the year.

 

that had little to do with scheme and coaching.

 

Also im wondering how crabs is supposed to replace torrey.

torrey role is to stretch defenses.

crabs is a possesion receiver who is pretty useless going deep.

 

our current scheme suits him less unless he is going to take over for steve smith.

even then he isent better then steve smith at all so we are basicially worse off and the doesent want slot receiver money.

 

For the record singletary was the HC so he had little influence on the offense side of the ball lol.

only time he got involved was to say got for 2 or go for it on 4th down.

to blame him for crab struggling is pretty far fetched.

 

also alex smith is captain checkdown who throws to whoever runs the short routes.

crap being the possesion receiver he should had feasted on that TBH.

 

same with keap he seems to throw to his 1st read all the time.

its sad when an old player like boldin comes in and makes you vanish lol.

 

Steve smith is just as good if not better then boldin so where does that leave crab?

[Tiz]

If the Ravens miss the playoffs for 2 consecutive seasons, Ozzie and Co. are gonna do everything possible to right the ship. They're going to try to improve immediately at WR and that would probably mean bringing in a proven vet, no time to "try" and develop a rookie at WR. I'm interested to see the fallout with the Bears. Wondering if Brandon Marshall or Alshon Jeffery decide to leave.

Missing the playoffs doesn't mean Ozzie will make dumb or costly personnel choices. Keep in mind if we win and San Diego wins we miss the playoffs despite winning 10 games. Not a real reason to panic and overpay for a wr especially coming of a year where joe has a career high in passing Tds and his yards per game at this point is at its highest (barely).

I am intrigued with the prospect of vernon Davis depending on price tho. I think baltimore finally found the balance that it covets and will look at youth at rb, te and even at lt before considering overpaying at wr

[Militant X 1]

There is an article on ProfootballTalk...  Regarding Torrey and the possibility or thought of not playing another game in Baltimore after Sunday.... I hate that news outlet, but it pops up on my FB ....  Reading some of the comments to that article???  WOW...  makes you kind of appreciate what we have..... 

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/12/26/torrey-smith-horrible-feeling-that-this-could-be-last-game-with-ravens/?utm_network=facebook&utm_post=3291263&utm_source=FB%20-%20SNF%20on%20NBC&utm_tags=

 

It will be interesting to see cause many cats in here keep talking about how Torrey isn't this or that and how he can't do this or that.  So, maybe he needs to be on another team to truly be successful in the league?

[Willbacker]

torrey had 1000 yards last season because he was the only healthy receiver the ravens had for most of the year.

 

that had little to do with scheme and coaching.

 

Also im wondering how crabs is supposed to replace torrey.

torrey role is to stretch defenses.

crabs is a possesion receiver who is pretty useless going deep.

 

our current scheme suits him less unless he is going to take over for steve smith.

even then he isent better then steve smith at all so we are basicially worse off and the doesent want slot receiver money.

 

For the record singletary was the HC so he had little influence on the offense side of the ball lol.

only time he got involved was to say got for 2 or go for it on 4th down.

to blame him for crab struggling is pretty far fetched.

 

also alex smith is captain checkdown who throws to whoever runs the short routes.

crap being the possesion receiver he should had feasted on that TBH.

 

same with keap he seems to throw to his 1st read all the time.

its sad when an old player like boldin comes in and makes you vanish lol.

 

Steve smith is just as good if not better then boldin so where does that leave crab?

This post tells it like it is. especially the vanish scenario.

 

Richard Sherman says he's a bum and I believe him.

[The Mom Gene]

It will be interesting to see cause many cats in here keep talking about how Torrey isn't this or that and how he can't do this or that.  So, maybe he needs to be on another team to truly be successful in the league?

Yup mili...  It's kinda sad....  Some folks actually don't value him and think he should be gone...  I ignore those guys... while other teams would LOVE to have him.

[Tenacious Faulker]

torrey had 1000 yards last season because he was the only healthy receiver the ravens had for most of the year.

 

that had little to do with scheme and coaching.

 

Also im wondering how crabs is supposed to replace torrey.

torrey role is to stretch defenses.

crabs is a possesion receiver who is pretty useless going deep.

 

our current scheme suits him less unless he is going to take over for steve smith.

even then he isent better then steve smith at all so we are basicially worse off and the doesent want slot receiver money.

 

For the record singletary was the HC so he had little influence on the offense side of the ball lol.

only time he got involved was to say got for 2 or go for it on 4th down.

to blame him for crab struggling is pretty far fetched.

 

also alex smith is captain checkdown who throws to whoever runs the short routes.

crap being the possesion receiver he should had feasted on that TBH.

 

same with keap he seems to throw to his 1st read all the time.

its sad when an old player like boldin comes in and makes you vanish lol.

 

Steve smith is just as good if not better then boldin so where does that leave crab?

That factored in, but if you don;t think that the offensive game plan and Joe's reliance/relationship with him had nothing to do with it than you and I will have to agree to disagree.  Having played/coached football, I know how that works intimately.  Quote stats all you want; they don;t tell the entire picture.  

[BirdWatcher]

It will be interesting to see cause many cats in here keep talking about how Torrey isn't this or that and how he can't do this or that.  So, maybe he needs to be on another team to truly be successful in the league?

I think the "problem" is that most of us absolutely love Torrey and want him to succeed. Many of us really expected him to step up this year (in his contract year) but he didn't. The same old problems continued except the one game where he got ticked off. High expectations and adoration is pretty hard to live up to so it makes the criticism harsher.

[Tiz]

I think the "problem" is that most of us absolutely love Torrey and want him to succeed. Many of us really expected him to step up this year (in his contract year) but he didn't. The same old problems continued except the one game where he got ticked off. High expectations and adoration is pretty hard to live up to so it makes the criticism harsher.

I tend to go back to his rookie year when a lot of people hated him and wanted to declare him garbage during minicamp. A lot of those same people were very pro tandon doss and the Torrey showed big play ability during the rams game that year. Don't get me wrong I never viewed him as perfect however I do notice and applaud his steady improvement over the years.

[rmw10]

I tend to go back to his rookie year when a lot of people hated him and wanted to declare him garbage during minicamp. A lot of those same people were very pro tandon doss and the Torrey showed big play ability during the rams game that year. Don't get me wrong I never viewed him as perfect however I do notice and applaud his steady improvement over the years.

 

While Torrey has certainly improved since his rookie year, he hit a wall and even regressed in some areas this year, and that's what is frustrating.  Because he's such a good guy, you want him to do well, but if you put all of that fandom aside, you begin to realize that he pretty much is what he is at this point.  In Kubiak's offense, he's asked to do much more and it's been shown that he's not much more than a deep threat.  You want him to do well, but I'm just not sure it's going to happen at this point.

[rmcjacket23]

I think the "problem" is that most of us absolutely love Torrey and want him to succeed. Many of us really expected him to step up this year (in his contract year) but he didn't. The same old problems continued except the one game where he got ticked off. High expectations and adoration is pretty hard to live up to so it makes the criticism harsher.

The biggest problem is that his value in a Kubiak offense decreases. He's never been a great route runner, and probably never will be, and he hasn't progressed into running the full route tree.

 

He's essentially a deep threat in this offense. He has value as such, but the question becomes how much do you want to pay a WR who is a deep threat, probably won't catch a ton of balls or get a lot of yardage, and who draws a lot of PI penalties?

 

Ultimately, I would think it would come down to whatever Torrey perceives his market value to be. If he aims high, he's gone in my opinion.

[Tiz]

While Torrey has certainly improved since his rookie year, he hit a wall and even regressed in some areas this year, and that's what is frustrating.  Because he's such a good guy, you want him to do well, but if you put all of that fandom aside, you begin to realize that he pretty much is what he is at this point.  In Kubiak's offense, he's asked to do much more and it's been shown that he's not much more than a deep threat.  You want him to do well, but I'm just not sure it's going to happen at this point.

Disagree and one only needs to look at flaccos comments on Steve smith as to why.

The focus was repeatedly stated that they need to get steve going early. Often times they focused on that and Torrey was an after thought but once they got him going he was fiery too

[rmw10]

Disagree and one only needs to look at flaccos comments on Steve smith as to why.

The focus was repeatedly stated that they need to get steve going early. Often times they focused on that and Torrey was an after thought but once they got him going he was fiery too

 

Not sure how that matters at all...

 

I'm not looking at Torrey's stats and making this determination.  I'm looking at his overall play, and his skill set simply doesn't play into what Kubiak likes to do.  That's the question going forward.  If Kubiak leaves, do we want to continue this offense?  If so, you have to look at Torrey and see if we think he's a long term fit for an offense that doesn't cater to his skills.

[GrimCoconut]

I'd rather retain Torrey if it's possible. I don't see much of a difference between the two, and I'm not sure Crabtree ever recovered from his injury.