Perhaps the Harbaugh era needs to come to an end?

[rmcjacket23]

playmaking WRs in FA come at a much higher price than secondary players in FA. That is just fact.

You're right, they do. We aren't going to get a playmaking WR from FA, but that doesn't mean we can't get a contributing WR in FA.

 

Given our historical track record with receivers in the draft, and given that we won't be picking high enough to likely get a perceived "elite" one, I'm not convinced that using a high round draft pick on a WR is necessarily the solution to our problems either.

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't... but I'd trust our ability in the long run to find a quality secondary player than I would a quality receiver. And for me, the secondary is a far more pressing issue going into the offseason, and I think the FO will see it that way as well.

[ravensdfan]

You're right, they do. We aren't going to get a playmaking WR from FA, but that doesn't mean we can't get a contributing WR in FA.

 

Given our historical track record with receivers in the draft, and given that we won't be picking high enough to likely get a perceived "elite" one, I'm not convinced that using a high round draft pick on a WR is necessarily the solution to our problems either.

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't... but I'd trust our ability in the long run to find a quality secondary player than I would a quality receiver. And for me, the secondary is a far more pressing issue going into the offseason, and I think the FO will see it that way as well.

I don't know why everyone is stuck on this "elite" thing where WRs are concerned. We really don't need "elite". What we need is above #3/#4. Right now, we do not even have a solid, consistent #2.

[rmcjacket23]

I don't know why everyone is stuck on this "elite" thing where WRs are concerned. We really don't need "elite". What we need is above #3/#4. Right now, we do not even have a solid, consistent #2.

Correct, and the last time we tried to draft one, we ended up with Torrey Smith, who we now don't even view as that. And the track record before that is even worse, considering Torrey is almost inarguably the best receiver this franchise has ever drafted.

 

That's sort of my entire point.

[ravensdfan]

Correct, and the last time we tried to draft one, we ended up with Torrey Smith, who we now don't even view as that. And the track record before that is even worse, considering Torrey is almost inarguably the best receiver this franchise has ever drafted.

 

That's sort of my entire point.

The problem is that other teams actually draft WRs above round 6. More than one every 5 years or so. It's tough to hit on one when you don't actually try.

[rmcjacket23]

The problem is that other teams actually draft WRs above round 6. More than one every 5 years or so. It's tough to hit on one when you don't actually try.

Well, we have used 4 top 2 round picks on WRs in this franchise history, which is basically 18 years now. So, on average, once every 4-5 years, we use a top draft pick on a WR. You can add two more to that list if you expand to round 3.

 

There aren't too many franchises who are using top 1-2 round picks on WRs every 4-5 years. If they are, they're probably in big, big, big trouble.

 

I'd be more concerned about the franchises seemingly inability to develop WRs, regardless of what round they are taken in, than I am about the franchise ignoring WR early in drafts.

[gabefergy]

I wonder if having 18 players on IR has something to do with the team's "mediocre performance".

[Neal Could Block the SUN!!]

No sir, your understanding of numbers is flawed.   I answered your questions.  You ignored it and went to something else.   It's ok.

 

We're done with this conversation.   You have no understanding of what consistency is, or you want it to be something it's not.   I'm not going spend anymore time trying to get you to understand how numbers work.   We are done here.

Funny- that's two of us.  I wouldn't waste anymore time trying to explain anything to him.  He is a genius in his own mind and knows only his only logic as valid.  I also ended the conversation but got one more post in response.  Lawd knows, more posts on the internet obviously equal correct knowledge and wins the debate.  

 

Leave that mess alone and focus on open minded folks that can carry on a conversation.  

 

(ok- I'll go back to being wrong now!)

[StingerNLG]

Funny- that's two of us.  I wouldn't waste anymore time trying to explain anything to him.  He is a genius in his own mind and knows only his only logic as valid.  I also ended the conversation but got one more post in response.  Lawd knows, more posts on the internet obviously equal correct knowledge and wins the debate.  

 

Leave that mess alone and focus on open minded folks that can carry on a conversation.  

 

(ok- I'll go back to being wrong now!)

 

Eh, it's all good.  If you read this forum, places like Russell Street Report with that whackjob Tony Lombardi, and listen to talk radio today, people are going crazy and saying some really weird things.   After a while you just can't reason with people anymore and you move on.

[rmcjacket23]

Funny- that's two of us.  I wouldn't waste anymore time trying to explain anything to him.  He is a genius in his own mind and knows only his only logic as valid.  I also ended the conversation but got one more post in response.  Lawd knows, more posts on the internet obviously equal correct knowledge and wins the debate.  

 

Leave that mess alone and focus on open minded folks that can carry on a conversation.  

 

(ok- I'll go back to being wrong now!)

Excellent contribution to the conversation as always. Keep up the good work.

[rmcjacket23]

Eh, it's all good.  If you read this forum, places like Russell Street Report with that whackjob Tony Lombardi, and listen to talk radio today, people are going crazy and saying some really weird things.   After a while you just can't reason with people anymore and you move on.

Single most ironic post I've seen on this board all day...

[cursona pirate]

19-0 or get out.

[TwinRivers]

Jim Palmer once said "The mark of an athlete's greatness is his ability to stay healthy." Harbs and Ozzie need to get rid of the guys that cannot stay healthy, Jah Ried, Bernard Pierce. Guys that don't contribute and if they do are soon injured.

 Injuries is what's keeping the Ravens down.

 Ten wins usually will get a team in the playoffs. PLAYOFFS?! AFC North is more competitive than it has ever been.

[Inqui]

Jim Palmer once said "The mark of an athlete's greatness is his ability to stay healthy." Harbs and Ozzie need to get rid of the guys that cannot stay healthy, Jah Ried, Bernard Pierce. Guys that don't contribute and if they do are soon injured.

Injuries is what's keeping the Ravens down.

Ten wins usually will get a team in the playoffs. PLAYOFFS?! AFC North is more competitive than it has ever been.

If we got rid of any player that couldn't seem to stay healthy, we'd have a pretty empty roster.

[TwinRivers]

If we got rid of any player that couldn't seem to stay healthy, we'd have a pretty empty roster.

I'm talking about those that seem to get hurt every time they are put into action. Now I understand your point. Every player in the NFL is subject to injury but some are never able to contribute because they are always hurt.

[Rinbee]

For real? Gotta be kidding me...being on the verge of a playoff run isn't enough..lol ok.

 

Don't know what you were reading into this.  Just a fact, jack.

[K-Dog]

It's not like we are the Patriots or Broncos either. 

My point exactly.

[EAP-2K10]

...this is a great thread...glad I started it...sorry some of you take offense to it...lot of great points...I do agree Harbs should be HC until such time he/Ravens is no longer worthy...however...my belief (and hope) is this team does much better...there is much room for improvement and perhaps the current Harbaugh era needs to end and the next Harbaugh era needs to begin....Go Ravens!!!

[BmoreBird22]

My view is that the Harbaugh is expected to coach the players he is given on the roster. Given the past two years have been a rebuilding effort, the talent hasn't exactly been what it was the past few years. There was a clear drop off after the Ravens gutted the roster.

This doesn't even mention having 18 players on IR, which is pretty absurd. Many of them were starters or key depth players. The Ravens just aren't fielding a very talented roster at the moment

[StingerNLG]

My view is that the Harbaugh is expected to coach the players he is given on the roster. Given the past two years have been a rebuilding effort, the talent hasn't exactly been what it was the past few years. There was a clear drop off after the Ravens gutted the roster.

This doesn't even mention having 18 players on IR, which is pretty absurd. Many of them were starters or key depth players. The Ravens just aren't fielding a very talented roster at the moment

 

Exactly.  And yet this team STILL hasn't had a losing record since Harbaugh came aboard.   And in a year when I think anyone reasonably would have not been surprised if the team folded or imploded and only won 5 games, we've won 9 and still could possibly get into the playoffs.   Like it or not John Harbaugh is holding this team together, and the players have said as much.   He may not be perfect on the sidelines, but he's kept that locker room in synch through the Ray Rice stuff, 18 players on IR, Haloti Ngata, and the adversity of all that.

 

I LOVED Brian Billick as an X's and O's coach.  But remind me when was the last time he was able to do that when the world was falling apart around the team?  

[frozen joe flacco fan]

Exactly.  And yet this team STILL hasn't had a losing record since Harbaugh came aboard.   And in a year when I think anyone reasonably would have not been surprised if the team folded or imploded and only won 5 games, we've won 9 and still could possibly get into the playoffs.   Like it or not John Harbaugh is holding this team together, and the players have said as much.   He may not be perfect on the sidelines, but he's kept that locker room in synch through the Ray Rice stuff, 18 players on IR, Haloti Ngata, and the adversity of all that.

 

I LOVED Brian Billick as an X's and O's coach.  But remind me when was the last time he was able to do that when the world was falling apart around the team?

You have a short memory or amnesia. Brian "The Brain" Billick managed to win a Super Bowl with a team that failed to score an offensive TD in five straight games during the regular season. If that's not having the world falling apart, I don't know what is? The reason he lost his job was that he

disrespectfully addressed the owner as "Young man." Was that a valid reason to fire him Or was it a

decision made because of the owner' ego? IMHO, it was the latter. When it comes to decision-making,

an owner needs to leave his or her ego at the door. If your memory returns, you'll recall that

Brian's team scored the same number of points in the Super Bowl as did John Harbaugh's --- 34. The

2000 team also came within one tackle of pitching the first and only shutout in a SB.

John will be fortunate to retain his job this year, if he does. He has had to contend with a plague

of major injuries. However, other teams have injuries too. That's a valid part of the problem but its only part of the problem. The biggest part of the problem is coaching or a lack thereof. The essence of coaching is 4 things --- Teaching, Leading By Example, Motivation and Discipline. Grade our HC on those four key elements and reach your own conclusion. I've reached mine and he gets a below average report card in at least two of the above four categories. The Ray Rice and the Haloti Ngata stuff,

as you put it, speaks to a lack of discipline on the team (not to mention several other off-season

arrests of players). Motivation comes from within but the HC must provide an environment that is

conducive to motivation, that is, the team should not be run like a country club or a prison but it should be somewhere in the middle of the two. I think he does an excellent job of leading by example.

I'm not familiar with his teaching ability so I won't comment on it. Suffice it to say, he seems to

have recurring problems with poor clock management, challenges and knowing when to go for it or not. His logic for going for a two point conversion in the Houston game was hard to follow. When we missed the two-point conversion, it became a three score deficit, instead of a two score game. There have

been other coaches who have been fired with better records than 10-6 and we ain't there yet BTW.

I wonder if the OP even realized that his question was a pun. Yes, the Harbaugh "errors" better come to an end whether he stays or not. If not, I'm sure there will be a slot for him at Michigan.

[PurpleCityLights]

Exactly. And yet this team STILL hasn't had a losing record since Harbaugh came aboard. And in a year when I think anyone reasonably would have not been surprised if the team folded or imploded and only won 5 games, we've won 9 and still could possibly get into the playoffs. Like it or not John Harbaugh is holding this team together, and the players have said as much. He may not be perfect on the sidelines, but he's kept that locker room in synch through the Ray Rice stuff, 18 players on IR, Haloti Ngata, and the adversity of all that.

I LOVED Brian Billick as an X's and O's coach. But remind me when was the last time he was able to do that when the world was falling apart around the team?

not making the playoffs is a losing record & John gets paid what the HC in New England gets paid so i expect that.....period. we are 9-6 cause of the weak teams we played this year....period. Lets see what happens next year, go ahead & take a look at the teams we face in 2015 season.

[arnie_uk]

Year too early. If we don't make the playoffs for a third year in a row next year Steve will definitely consider it.

Whether he goes through with it or not is another question. The grass isn't always greener.

I'd be more inclined to push ozzie out the door first than the coach. He, afterall is responsible for the talent on the roster, and we've had a few shocking drafts the past 5 or so years, Imo.

[rmcjacket23]

not making the playoffs is a losing record & John gets paid what the HC in New England gets paid so i expect that.....period. we are 9-6 cause of the weak teams we played this year....period. Lets see what happens next year, go ahead & take a look at the teams we face in 2015 season.

On paper, those teams look strong.

 

But a lot of things change year over year. I'd expect some teams that look strong to ultimately be weak, and vice versa. Injuries happen, and personnel changes happen. Attempting to project the difficulty of a schedule a year in advance always ends up in failure.

[fistfullwales]

Sorry, John is 20th ALL-TIME in winning percentage. Nuff said.

 

4th for active coaches. OP and supporters are insane.

[rmcjacket23]

Sorry, John is 20th ALL-TIME in winning percentage. Nuff said.

 

4th for active coaches. OP and supporters are insane.

I mean lets face it... ultimately, he's likely to get fired. It won't be anytime soon, but years from now, he's likely to get fired. Almost every coach, regardless of how successful or unsuccessful they are, is going to get fired.

 

But yeah, its not happening anytime soon.

[The Mom Gene]

John Harbaugh...  7 years

Total Games Played...  111

Games Won...  70

Games Lost...   41

 

Playoff Wins...  9

Playoff Losses... 4

 

W/L Percentage...  .692

 

Bill Belichick...  20 years

Total Games Played...  319

Games Won....  211

Games Lost....   108

 

Playoff Wins...  19

Playoff Losses..  9............  Playoff appearances per year....  hmmmm  Less on average...

 

W/L Percentage...  .679

 

Nuff Said!

Just sayin'...  I'll take it...  Life in Baltimore with John Harbaugh is nothing to shake a stick at...

 

You can check the stats of anyone and their coaching career here:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/HarbJo0.htm

[StingerNLG]

You have a short memory or amnesia. Brian "The Brain" Billick managed to win a Super Bowl with a team that failed to score an offensive TD in five straight games during the regular season. If that's not having the world falling apart, I don't know what is? The reason he lost his job was that he

disrespectfully addressed the owner as "Young man." Was that a valid reason to fire him Or was it a

decision made because of the owner' ego? IMHO, it was the latter. When it comes to decision-making,

an owner needs to leave his or her ego at the door. If your memory returns, you'll recall that

Brian's team scored the same number of points in the Super Bowl as did John Harbaugh's --- 34. The

2000 team also came within one tackle of pitching the first and only shutout in a SB.

John will be fortunate to retain his job this year, if he does. He has had to contend with a plague

of major injuries. However, other teams have injuries too. That's a valid part of the problem but its only part of the problem. The biggest part of the problem is coaching or a lack thereof. The essence of coaching is 4 things --- Teaching, Leading By Example, Motivation and Discipline. Grade our HC on those four key elements and reach your own conclusion. I've reached mine and he gets a below average report card in at least two of the above four categories. The Ray Rice and the Haloti Ngata stuff,

as you put it, speaks to a lack of discipline on the team (not to mention several other off-season

arrests of players). Motivation comes from within but the HC must provide an environment that is

conducive to motivation, that is, the team should not be run like a country club or a prison but it should be somewhere in the middle of the two. I think he does an excellent job of leading by example.

I'm not familiar with his teaching ability so I won't comment on it. Suffice it to say, he seems to

have recurring problems with poor clock management, challenges and knowing when to go for it or not. His logic for going for a two point conversion in the Houston game was hard to follow. When we missed the two-point conversion, it became a three score deficit, instead of a two score game. There have

been other coaches who have been fired with better records than 10-6 and we ain't there yet BTW.

I wonder if the OP even realized that his question was a pun. Yes, the Harbaugh "errors" better come to an end whether he stays or not. If not, I'm sure there will be a slot for him at Michigan.

 

Good grief.  This is my last post in this thread and then I'm out because there is just too much of this head-smash-against-the-wall stuff I have to read.

 

First off, I have a short and long term memory.   So I know that the last time the Ravens won the Super Bowl with Brian Billick was 14 years ago, when I had no wife and no kids and hadn't even hit 30 yet with no grey hair.    

 

I also remember that unlike John Harbaugh's tenure with the Ravens, Billick had 7-9. 6-10, and 5-11 seasons.  I also know, like most people in Baltimore knew, that Billick wasn't fired because he called Steve Bisciotti a young man.   He was fired because the inmates ran the asylum, the team had no discipline, and his last year was the 5-11 season. 

 

So there's that.   Now, this whole "John will be fortunate to retain his job this year, if he does." is such BS.  There is no way Harbaugh is in any danger of losing his job this year.   Because Bischotti is also a reasonable human being and understands that the team has been through utter hell this year and yet they still have a winning record and a shot at the playoffs.  

 

I love this line:  "However, other teams have injuries too.".   I've asked several times for someone to name me a team in the NFL that has been through what the Ravens have this year and is sitting at 9 wins.   It's because we all know the answer:  NONE.  And who's held that team together?  John Harbaugh.   And the players have said as much.

 

So please just stop.

 

Ugh.

[StingerNLG]

not making the playoffs is a losing record & John gets paid what the HC in New England gets paid so i expect that.....period. we are 9-6 cause of the weak teams we played this year....period. Lets see what happens next year, go ahead & take a look at the teams we face in 2015 season.

 

Yeah no.  That's not even close to the definition of a losing record. 

 

I just can't take some of this anymore. 

[fistfullwales]

I mean lets face it... ultimately, he's likely to get fired. It won't be anytime soon, but years from now, he's likely to get fired. Almost every coach, regardless of how successful or unsuccessful they are, is going to get fired.

 

But yeah, its not happening anytime soon.

Profound.

 

I wasn't able to find how many NFL coaches have never been fired in their career, but I'd imagine I can count them on one hand. Of course every coach is fired at some point...

[frozen joe flacco fan]

Good grief.  This is my last post in this thread and then I'm out because there is just too much of this head-smash-against-the-wall stuff I have to read.

 

First off, I have a short and long term memory.   So I know that the last time the Ravens won the Super Bowl with Brian Billick was 14 years ago, when I had no wife and no kids and hadn't even hit 30 yet with no grey hair.    

 

I also remember that unlike John Harbaugh's tenure with the Ravens, Billick had 7-9. 6-10, and 5-11 seasons.  I also know, like most people in Baltimore knew, that Billick wasn't fired because he called Steve Bisciotti a young man.   He was fired because the inmates ran the asylum, the team had no discipline, and his last year was the 5-11 season. 

 

So there's that.   Now, this whole "John will be fortunate to retain his job this year, if he does." is such BS.  There is no way Harbaugh is in any danger of losing his job this year.   Because Bischotti is also a reasonable human being and understands that the team has been through utter hell this year and yet they still have a winning record and a shot at the playoffs.  

 

I love this line:  "However, other teams have injuries too.".   I've asked several times for someone to name me a team in the NFL that has been through what the Ravens have this year and is sitting at 9 wins.   It's because we all know the answer:  NONE.  And who's held that team together?  John Harbaugh.   And the players have said as much.

 

So please just stop.

 

Ugh.

Ooooh, that hurts, Stinger! R U a pseudonym for Coach Harbaugh, blogging under an assumed name? Go

ahead and regurgitate the company line, Homer! As Purple Lights noted, one of the main reasons we

have 9 wins is a soft schedule. In addition to the woeful NFC South, we beat Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay,

Miami, Cleveland & Tennessee. Big deal!! You're right about one thing though. The other reason we

have 9 wins has everything to do with a pretty good coach, that is, Coach Kubiak.

For the record, 6'4" Rolando McClain will be playing in the playoffs this year for Dallas, not

Baltimore. Since you're such a fountain of knowledge, what happened in that fiasco? So, he couldn't

pass a physical for the Ravens but he passed one for Dallas?

You're in denial, bud! Its not just a river in Egypt. That being said, I still hope Santa will give

the Ravens two gifts for Christmas - a Ravens victory and a KC victory on Sunday.

BTW, Just for Men works wonders for grey hair. Have a very Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year!!! Ho, Ho, Ho!!!