Perhaps the Harbaugh era needs to come to an end?

[The Raven]

...lot of good responses from you all who are so happy with mediocre play and coaching...and yea...if that doesn't change, that PSL will be sold...yea I am a fan who expects more...actually I expect the best..."a fan problem"...you're kidding right?

 

We haven't had a losing season under Harbs' tenure and you're throwing around "mediocre?" You're absolutely ridiculous.

[Desert]

Harbaugh, overall, does a great job of managing the team.

Harbaugh, overall, does a poor job of managing the games.

During games, he has a tendency to be overly reactive, while not being sufficiently proactive.

Harbaugh can hold a team together to keep them from completely folding, which is why he has never had a losing season yet.

But he will cost your team several games with both his decisions and indecision.

People talk about Joe having a deer in the headlights look, but I see that more often from Harbaugh when he's on the sidelines staring with his mouth open in incredulity as to what's happening, unable or unwilling to intervene.

I agree with your assessment, buy the way its called "Mouth Breathing"...LOL

 

...oh and just so I am not misunderstood...I'm not expecting SB, playoffs or even wins...I just want to see good football from the Ravens...not just the 3 point wins...

Yes, I would like to see quality play also, even if we lose its OK. Just don't look like dog crap

 

EXACTLY!!!! Thats what people keep missing is that we come out and look like we ready to take on the world and then go up against the texans and look like we a college team thats not ready for the big leagues

I agree, but why is it coaching or lack of ability?

[HoldingCall]

If not for the near record amount of injuries would this thread even exist? I think not!

[rmcjacket23]

I'm still waiting for someone to answer me about our supposed lack of consistency,

I'm not actually arguing against it, although there's no question that the team and the offense can be inconsistent on a week to week basis.

 

But I would like to point out that consistency and points scored aren't the same thing, and not all conclusions can be drawn by just looking at the boxscore.

[The Raven]

I guess you didn't notice how that worked out for Miami.

 

Guess you didn't notice that was ten years ago and he had some crappy rosters. 

[HoldingCall]

Right, but they were fantastic for a four game stretch in the playoffs. There wasn't much special about Boldin or Torrey for the entire regular season, yet we still managed to win plenty of games.

 

There's no doubt that the franchise could use upgrades at the receiver position, but it wouldn't really classify as a necessity in my opinion. Its more of a luxury item.

 

Getting that elite #1 WR has been a dream of every Ravens fan for probably a decade now, and maybe one day it will come. But its unlikely to come via FA, because we are unlikely to have that sort of coin to throw around anytime soon. It will most likely have to come through the draft, which we are notoriously not great when it comes to talent evaluation and development.

 

Perhaps this franchise is destined to be one that takes a couple stabs at some young receivers in the draft, hopes to hit one, and fills the gaps with short-term veterans. We know that's a formula that can win, as long as other parts of the team are addressed as well.

 

Upgrading the receiver position is certainly the flavor of the week due to the most recent performance we saw, and we all know how much fans like to react almost exclusively to the last thing we saw (see the thread earlier this season about us being the best team in the entire league).

 

But the secondary is still the biggest short and long-term problem on this team in my eyes, and that's the NEED area for the offseason in my opinion.

True!

[Tru11]

 5 pages and no lock.

 

im impressed

[edthehead]

Why were the expectations high? Did you honestly believe this team was going to be a SB contender? What was the basis for that expectation?

 

In the preseason, my expectation was 10-11 wins, and a likely playoff berth. We might fall short of that, but certainly not short enough for me to want to burn the place down.

are you serious.last year after all the lost players,we played really good,and that was with a very bad team, go back and look at week 6,7,9 and 11 those was winnable games, Let me say this also ,my expectations was very low at the start of the season, but our play dictated a playoff run ,never said SB,playoffs YES.

[Tru11]

Right, but they were fantastic for a four game stretch in the playoffs. There wasn't much special about Boldin or Torrey for the entire regular season, yet we still managed to win plenty of games.

 

There's no doubt that the franchise could use upgrades at the receiver position, but it wouldn't really classify as a necessity in my opinion. Its more of a luxury item.

 

Getting that elite #1 WR has been a dream of every Ravens fan for probably a decade now, and maybe one day it will come. But its unlikely to come via FA, because we are unlikely to have that sort of coin to throw around anytime soon. It will most likely have to come through the draft, which we are notoriously not great when it comes to talent evaluation and development.

 

Perhaps this franchise is destined to be one that takes a couple stabs at some young receivers in the draft, hopes to hit one, and fills the gaps with short-term veterans. We know that's a formula that can win, as long as other parts of the team are addressed as well.

 

Upgrading the receiver position is certainly the flavor of the week due to the most recent performance we saw, and we all know how much fans like to react almost exclusively to the last thing we saw (see the thread earlier this season about us being the best team in the entire league).

 

But the secondary is still the biggest short and long-term problem on this team in my eyes, and that's the NEED area for the offseason in my opinion.

 

This +1

[Drew P]

The Ravens are still living in 2002 with the way they build their teams. All thr emphasis on run defense, drafting a safety who can't cover in round 1, bargain basement talent at WR, etc etc.

 

I agree and the league has been passing them by and they really need to adapt. Im not a proponent of drafting WR's early but it must be considered since Torrey might be gone and ICE is a dinosaur. Hell they went all out drafting defense last year go with all offense this year.

[edthehead]

I'm still waiting for someone to answer me about our supposed lack of consistency,

our lack of consistency,to me is not with the points,but with the play,the performance,  

[rmcjacket23]

are you serious.last year after all the lost players,we played really good,and that was with a very bad team, go back and look at week 6,7,9 and 11 those was winnable games, Let me say this also ,my expectations was very low at the start of the season, but our play dictated a playoff run ,never said SB,playoffs YES.

And maybe it still will, time will tell. I tend to think of things in terms of wins as opposed to playoffs/non-playoffs, because as we see with the NFC South, below average football teams can make the playoffs and above average football teams don't.

 

My realistic goal for the season was 10-11 wins. Typically, that's enough to get you into the playoffs. This season, it may not be.

 

But I see a significantly better football team than I saw last year, and their record and overall production reflects that. I also see a team that may only be 3-5 players away from being really good, and luckily, a strong offseason can possibly take care of that. I don't expect us to plug every hole, but I expect us to plug some of them.

 

Another realistic goal would have been to show improvement in areas where we were weak last season... namely, the running game. Did the running game improve significantly from last season? That answer is an obvious yes. The O-line is better, and the entire running game is better. I also wanted to see an improved pass rush and a bit better performance on run defense... I got both.

[rmcjacket23]

I agree and the league has been passing them by and they really need to adapt. Im not a proponent of drafting WR's early but it must be considered since Torrey might be gone and ICE is a dinosaur. Hell they went all out drafting defense last year go with all offense this year.

Yup, that will surely solve our secondary problems...

[The Raven]

And maybe it still will, time will tell. I tend to think of things in terms of wins as opposed to playoffs/non-playoffs, because as we see with the NFC South, below average football teams can make the playoffs and above average football teams don't.

 

My realistic goal for the season was 10-11 wins. Typically, that's enough to get you into the playoffs. This season, it may not be.

 

But I see a significantly better football team than I saw last year, and their record and overall production reflects that. I also see a team that may only be 3-5 players away from being really good, and luckily, a strong offseason can possibly take care of that. I don't expect us to plug every hole, but I expect us to plug some of them.

 

Another realistic goal would have been to show improvement in areas where we were weak last season... namely, the running game. Did the running game improve significantly from last season? That answer is an obvious yes. The O-line is better, and the entire running game is better. I also wanted to see an improved pass rush and a bit better performance on run defense... I got both.

 

Bingo.

[The Mom Gene]

Guess you didn't notice that was ten years ago and he had some crappy rosters. 

Good NFL coaches...  take NFL players and make them better.  Good Coaches don't give up 1/2 way through one season.

[The Raven]

Good NFL coaches...  take NFL players and make them better.  Good Coaches don't give up 1/2 way through one season.

 

This is a myth. Even the best NFL coaches need something that resembles talent to do anything.

[ratedr]

20 points against JAX, but keep in mind 7 of those 20 were from a blocked punt. Only 13 points offensively, at home

[HoldingCall]

I agree and the league has been passing them by and they really need to adapt. Im not a proponent of drafting WR's early but it must be considered since Torrey might be gone and ICE is a dinosaur. Hell they went all out drafting defense last year go with all offense this year.

The injured CBs will return healthy but they still need at least one high quality addition. Also, quality back-ups at LT and RT along with an exceptional WR would be nice.

[edthehead]

And maybe it still will, time will tell. I tend to think of things in terms of wins as opposed to playoffs/non-playoffs, because as we see with the NFC South, below average football teams can make the playoffs and above average football teams don't.

 

My realistic goal for the season was 10-11 wins. Typically, that's enough to get you into the playoffs. This season, it may not be.

 

But I see a significantly better football team than I saw last year, and their record and overall production reflects that. I also see a team that may only be 3-5 players away from being really good, and luckily, a strong offseason can possibly take care of that. I don't expect us to plug every hole, but I expect us to plug some of them.

 

Another realistic goal would have been to show improvement in areas where we were weak last season... namely, the running game. Did the running game improve significantly from last season? That answer is an obvious yes. The O-line is better, and the entire running game is better. I also wanted to see an improved pass rush and a bit better performance on run defense... I got both.

2 points

1.schedule was allot harder last year,we had the angels put together our schedule this year,the cards fell our way from players being out in certain games.we did not capitalize on it .

2.the improvement also had allot to do with being in the same system another year,just like our offense it will be better next year also..

      we will always improve we have a GREAT,GREAT FO, we have a good team

[rmcjacket23]

2 points

1.schedule was allot harder last year,we had the angels put together our schedule this year,the cards fell our way from players being out in certain games.we did not capitalize on it .

2.the improvement also had allot to do with being in the same system another year,just like our offense it will be better next year also..

      we will always improve we have a GREAT,GREAT FO, we have a good team

No question the schedule helped us (which wasn't "given" to us by the way... its generated based on a rotation... just like we already know 14 of our 16 opponents next season and basically every single season after that). But the 2013 Ravens don't win 10 games this season, even with this schedule.

 

The overall point is... realistic and reasonable fans are short-sighting themselves if they judge growth and success based on playoffs vs non-playoffs. Its obviously a great goal to have, but in many cases, its not a realistic one. Imagine if every NFL franchise set a one-year, pass/fail goal as playoffs vs non-playoffs. We'd have a lot more job firings and a lot more personnel changes than we already do.

[StingerNLG]

I'm not actually arguing against it, although there's no question that the team and the offense can be inconsistent on a week to week basis.

 

But I would like to point out that consistency and points scored aren't the same thing, and not all conclusions can be drawn by just looking at the boxscore.

 

Why not?   Score is what the basis of winning and losing the game is, right?   And the first person that I was responding to specifically said he didn't want to see us score 30 points one week, then 7 the next.    That has simply not happened this year.  

[Alexir]

Ozzie is a great GM but he cannot draft offensive playmakers to save his life...That is where we need help. Even with the injuries to our defense, they are hanging pretty tough in the Redzone. Can you imagine how many more sacks Doom and Suggs would have if Jimmy were healthy?

[Bryden88]

I would gladly a decade's worth of 10-6, 11-5, 12-4, and one or two 9-7's where our losses are close and/or clunkers... than a generation of 0-16, 4-12, 8-8s.

 

I wouldn't care if Flacco threw 50 interceptions in a game as long as we had wins.

 

Wins are all that matters.

 

Harbaugh is a winning coach. I want him as the Ravens coach long term like Billicheck.

[StingerNLG]

our lack of consistency,to me is not with the points,but with the play,the performance,  

 

Fair enough.   I just tend to be an end-result guy, not a how-you-got-there guy.   Slow starts to me mean nothing if the Ravens win the game.   Fast starts and flashy stats mean nothing to me if the Ravens lose.

[balfan23]

I am a devote Ravens fan, but I am disgusted at the level of play...tired of status quo, tired of three point wins, tired of multi-score losses...tired of the endless excuses...tired of being told it is what it is and accept it...tired of spending thousands of dollars on this crap every year...sometimes change (albeit painful) is necessary in order to move forward...Let's face it...Harbs/Ravens are heading in the wrong direction...

Let's review the resume. Harbaugh arrives and takes a 5-11 team to the AFC Championship. In the 4 years that follow, he takes the team to the playoffs each year, including 2 more AFC Championships and a SB win. Did we have clear championship talent on that SB winning team? We were underdogs in 3 of the 4 games we played on that run, so I'm not so sure. 

 

After that SB win, the turnover on the club has been mind-blowing. Between players hitting the end of their careers and others pricing themselves off the team, we've had to do a complete overhaul. In that time what has transpired? Did we fall off a cliff? No. We've not had a losing season and have been in the mix to make it to the playoffs until the final week. 

 

Are we heading in the wrong direction? I think we still have some significant challenges personnel wise going forward with aging players who have big cap numbers. How those are managed will be key and are the responsibility of everyone in the organization - not only Harbaugh. 

 

As we continue to try and reinvent the team post SB victory, John will be evaluated on what he gets out of the group we have, but at this juncture ... no, I don't think it is time to end the Harbaugh era. 

[A Fish Called Yanda]

This is a really dumb thread.  Even seeing it on our forums annoys me.

 

What an utterly terrible idea.  Who are you going to replace John with?  He's the best HC we've ever had, and since we've had 2 not-so-good (but still winning) seasons all of a sudden your calling for his head?

 

Get a grip.

[rmcjacket23]

Why not?   Score is what the basis of winning and losing the game is, right?   And the first person that I was responding to specifically said he didn't want to see us score 30 points one week, then 7 the next.    That has simply not happened this year.  

Its the basis for winning or losing the game, but winning or losing the game isn't the basis for defining "consistent". If you were "consistent' in terms of winning or losing, then shouldn't you either win every game or lose every game? Any deviation from that would be considered "inconsistent".

 

Plus, as somebody else mentioned, you're pulling points scored. What makes you think those points scored have anything to do with our offense? You can score points without your offense even being on the field...

[rmcjacket23]

Fair enough.   I just tend to be an end-result guy, not a how-you-got-there guy.   Slow starts to me mean nothing if the Ravens win the game.   Fast starts and flashy stats mean nothing to me if the Ravens lose.

And that's probably the problem... NFL teams don't have the luxury of being "end results guys", because its incredibly short-sighted.

 

If everybody was that way, then by definition, every player and every coach on a team that doesn't win the SB should be fired.

[edthehead]

No question the schedule helped us (which wasn't "given" to us by the way... its generated based on a rotation... just like we already know 14 of our 16 opponents next season and basically every single season after that). But the 2013 Ravens don't win 10 games this season, even with this schedule.

 

The overall point is... realistic and reasonable fans are short-sighting themselves if they judge growth and success based on playoffs vs non-playoffs. Its obviously a great goal to have, but in many cases, its not a realistic one. Imagine if every NFL franchise set a one-year, pass/fail goal as playoffs vs non-playoffs. We'd have a lot more job firings and a lot more personnel changes than we already do.

I really understand your views and I know its no pass or  fail,my point all along is this,

Before HARB who was your choice as HC during the interview process 

[edthehead]

Fair enough.   I just tend to be an end-result guy, not a how-you-got-there guy.   Slow starts to me mean nothing if the Ravens win the game.   Fast starts and flashy stats mean nothing to me if the Ravens lose.

agree,,,