The reason for the dearth of WRs during the Flacco era

[ravensdfan]

Clayton? He was supposed to be the next Derrick Mason. Travis Taylor had a lot of potential that was never tapped into as well, although I can't put all of it on the system and coaching. And what about the vets that we have brought in and their play / production took a nose dive once they got here, Boldin being the most notable example.

Boldin was a case of the Cam Cam blues. Everyone knew he wasn't be used properly here. I don't know about Clayton. It's difficult to tell if he would have thrived with the Rams since the bulk of his yards there came in one game and then he got hurt.

I mean I guess I was thinking of more tangible evidence that someone actually possessed the talent we thought they had when we drafted them but it was the system that failed. So many WR prospects just don't cut it at the NFL level. I thought maybe I'd missed someone we had here for a bit and then went elsewhere and had success. Which would kind of say it was a system or coaching issue.

It is entirely possible it is a position coach issue but don't think we've had the same guy there for all these years.

I seriously just think it is a matter of other teams hit with their receivers because they draft in more bulk given the fact that some just don't make it. Since we draft like, one at a time, every 5 years or so,  the odds are stacked against us actually hitting on one.

[flynismo]

Boldin was a case of the Cam Cam blues. Everyone knew he wasn't be used properly here. I don't know about Clayton. It's difficult to tell if he would have thrived with the Rams since the bulk of his yards there came in one game and then he got hurt.

I mean I guess I was thinking of more tangible evidence that someone actually possessed the talent we thought they had when we drafted them but it was the system that failed. So many WR prospects just don't cut it at the NFL level. I thought maybe I'd missed someone we had here for a bit and then went elsewhere and had success. Which would kind of say it was a system or coaching issue.

It is entirely possible it is a position coach issue but don't think we've had the same guy there for all these years.

I seriously just think it is a matter of other teams hit with their receivers because they draft in more bulk given the fact that some just don't make it. Since we draft like, one at a time, every 5 years or so, the odds are stacked against us actually hitting on one.

Well, I was speaking more from a talent perspective rather than production, because they are not necessarily the same thing....as far as Clayton, it was the reason he used to piss me off so much. He had plenty of raw tools to work with...good hands, nice quickness, could outrun the majority of DBs in the league, great work ethic, and very versatile. The holes in his game that held him back were correctable, or at the very least could have been masked in a different system (i.e., his propensity to get jammed at the line, his utter inability to get open...coaching could have helped the former, and anyone not named Cam Cameron could see that Clayton would excel if used as a faster Wes Welker type player).

Travis Taylor, like Clayton, was doomed the minute we drafted him. Taylor had all the physical tools you look for in a solid go to guy at WR...granted, his QBs did him no favors, but he was drafted so high for good reason. I am convinced that had he gone elsewhere, he would have had a pretty solid career. Maybe not one worthy of his draft status, but he would not have been an utter bust like he was here.

Basically, my argument is that we have brought in a ton of young guys that we never developed (too many to name) until Marlon Brown last year, and even then, a pessimistic person could argue that Marlons production was a product of ample opportunity, and that he did not play especially well.

On that note, a random thought...I am very wary of falling for Aiken, because so far, my eyeballs tell me that while he has made the most of his limited opportunities, his success has been primarily the result of the mad scientist at OC...

[RavensFanMania]

The skins may be looking to unload Pierre Garcon because of his high cap number.  He's a real baller and tough as nails.  Also a very important blocker in their run game.  He'd fit right in with the Raven-way.  He also knows the 'Mike Shanahan' zbs & west cost offense.  As you all know, Shanahan was Kubiak's mentor.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

[bMore Heathen]

Ernie Wheelwright!!! Lol, forgot about him.

The problem with us and WRs is (as OP said) we take a lot of late round projects and hope the can develop. The problem is we have had TERRIBLE WR coaches. Engram could change some of that, but these guys come in needing coaching, and they don't get it here with us... At least not in the past. When we have a guy like Hostler for 6 or 7 years, whatever it was, we couldn't develop anything at the position. Not a coincidence.

So our best chance at getting quality receivers is to get FAs that already know how to play the position.

[redrum52]

Clayton? He was supposed to be the next Derrick Mason. Travis Taylor had a lot of potential that was never tapped into as well, although I can't put all of it on the system and coaching. And what about the vets that we have brought in and their play / production took a nose dive once they got here, Boldin being the most notable example.

We're kind of becoming like the Bears prior, where "receivers went to die."

One of the greatest quotes I've ever seen b6 the way. Not knocking our guys, but we don't seem to good at developing offestive talent for whatever reason. Like I said before, it could be developing the talent, as well as the talent selected.

AND yes, you can develop talent. You find ways to reach your players, find what drives them and challenge them put then in spots to succeed. If you don't believe you can help coach up players, then you also can't believe there are good or bad teachers, and that they're all the same.

[nyc9192]

Thank you ... not drafting WRs might be a real reason for having a dearth of WRs! 

 

Not only have we not drafted many, we have not drafted ANY in round 1 and only 1 in round 2 (Torrey). While we brought in some vets to give us a boost (Q, Mason, Smith Sr.) we've not seen anyone brought in who really had the potential to be that top 10 difference making WR. 

 

What we don't need to do is draft more marginal WRs whose ceiling is being a #3 WR. We have plenty of those ... Brown, Aiken, Jones, Camp ... We need to seek a difference maker .. someone who has a real shot at becoming a true #1 receiver. 

THIS!!

[Tenacious Faulker]

The bulk of the FA pick ups were done before they came here and it was obvious. We constantly treat the offense like a patchwork quilt and then expect it to perform like some fine linen. It's ridiculous.

This. We draft that one 7th rounder and expect him to become "that" guy. As already pointed out, the odds of WR talent becoming a solid starter are not great to begin with so when you draft one low and only draft one, the odds become a zillion to one.

Ozzie needs to stop ignoring the offense in the draft though. By the time he gets around to drafting a decent receiver, Flacco will be drawing retirement checks.

Mason wasn't "past his prime" or "done", as you say, and had several 1000 yard season here.  Anquan wasn't either - he topped 1000 yards and will do it again next week (19yds left).  Smith isn't done - but he's been inconsistent.  My opinion:  Fora all his talk he's not used to AFC North football coming from a "finesse" (his word) AFC South.  

 

I agree that Joe may never have a true #1 here to rely on drafting WRs the way they do.  They may have to give up some picks to land a proven talent IN HIS PRIME rather than try to develop one through the draft.  Ozzie my gind gold in later rounds in defense and Ol, but he's been really bad at receivers.

[RavensFanMania]

To me past his prime means the the players past his best seasons as a pro. Mason may have had a 1000 yard seasons as a Raven but it wasn't his best years. Same with Boldin. Agree that the players were not done though.

I don't see Steve Smith as a Raven next yr though. Hoping they can grab a receiver in the draft and possibly a number 2 in FA.

As I mentioned before Garcon would be a very good wr for this offense. He's tough, a good blocker and has played in this offense under shanahan.

[jimjim5]

The skins may be looking to unload Pierre Garcon because of his high cap number.  He's a real baller and tough as nails.  Also a very important blocker in their run game.  He'd fit right in with the Raven-way.  He also knows the 'Mike Shanahan' zbs & west cost offense.  As you all know, Shanahan was Kubiak's mentor.

 

Thoughts?

 

Pierre Garcon? ...he's a nobody IMO. 

[redrum52]

Pierre Garcon? ...he's a nobody IMO.

A number 1 nobody or a 2? If he has #1 nobody talent I'll take him...

[Alaska Alaska!]

Pierre Garcon? ...he's a nobody IMO. 

This season...yes.. Last couple of season... no

[Alaska Alaska!]

To me past his prime means the the players past his best seasons as a pro. Mason may have had a 1000 yard seasons as a Raven but it wasn't his best years. Same with Boldin. Agree that the players were not done though.

I don't see Steve Smith as a Raven next yr though. Hoping they can grab a receiver in the draft and possibly a number 2 in FA.

As I mentioned before Garcon would be a very good wr for this offense. He's tough, a good blocker and has played in this offense under shanahan.

Why not?  We already have him in a 2-year contract.  Secondly, Ozzie signed a 37 yr old Brandon Stokley.  He's not afraid to keep older talent

[PurpleCity5]

To me past his prime means the the players past his best seasons as a pro. Mason may have had a 1000 yard seasons as a Raven but it wasn't his best years. Same with Boldin. Agree that the players were not done though.

I don't see Steve Smith as a Raven next yr though. Hoping they can grab a receiver in the draft and possibly a number 2 in FA.

As I mentioned before Garcon would be a very good wr for this offense. He's tough, a good blocker and has played in this offense under shanahan.

What? I def. see Steve Smith Sr. here next year. 1000YRDS at age 35 still means he has plenty to give next season as well. It's Steve's fire, he has a lot of it and age won't slow him down. 

[RaineV1]

The skins may be looking to unload Pierre Garcon because of his high cap number.  He's a real baller and tough as nails.  Also a very important blocker in their run game.  He'd fit right in with the Raven-way.  He also knows the 'Mike Shanahan' zbs & west cost offense.  As you all know, Shanahan was Kubiak's mentor.

 

Thoughts?

Garcon and a rookie as the outside receivers with SSS and Camp sharing the slot could be a good combination and help remake the Ravens receiving core. If he's available for a reasonable number, I'd take him. He's definitely more reliable than Torrey has been.

[RavensFanMania]

What? I def. see Steve Smith Sr. here next year. 1000YRDS at age 35 still means he has plenty to give next season as well. It's Steve's fire, he has a lot of it and age won't slow him down.

I hope your right, but he has been pretty on again off again this season, disapearing for all or parts of games. He's definitely still a good receiver.

[Militant X 1]

Why not?  We already have him in a 2-year contract.  Secondly, Ozzie signed a 37 yr old Brandon Stokley.  He's not afraid to keep older talent

 

And sometimes, based upon the position played and what is required of the player, this is what keeps the offense stagnant.  No progressive players.

[Alaska Alaska!]

And sometimes, based upon the position played and what is required of the player, this is what keeps the offense stagnant.  No progressive players.

That's true, but as long as we don't  have these guy's as our crutch (which we honestly did with SSS and OD), then these guys can continue to play there roles and make an impact.  SSS would be a great #3.  Now we just need a #1, or we need a Marshawn Lynch RB

[JetLife94]

You guys this years offense is just stepping stones. Kubiak dosent have TE's as of now this offenses bread and butter is run game and tight ends not revievers. I mean Andre Johnson is a go getter. We don't have one of them on offense. Marlon brown mabye. But we need TE's healthy pitta and a good compliment would be nice.

[Willbacker]

The reason why there's dearth(funny word) is becuz we don't draft nobody and groom them. Torrey has been our only high draft pick(2nd rd) during the Flacco era. I would like to see more of Marlon Brown but what do I know. All I know is I don't see him dropping balls on gameday.

[Alaska Alaska!]

You guys this years offense is just stepping stones. Kubiak dosent have TE's as of now this offenses bread and butter is run game and tight ends not revievers. I mean Andre Johnson is a go getter. We don't have one of them on offense. Marlon brown mabye. But we need TE's healthy pitta and a good compliment would be nice.

You make a good point.  Seattle proves that you don't need an awesome WR corps to win games.  I'd be more than happy if Ozzie acquired playmaking RBs and playmaking TEs.  Besides, Ozzie is WAAAY better at drafting those two positions over WR.

[JetLife94]

You make a good point. Seattle proves that you don't need an awesome WR corps to win games. I'd be more than happy if Ozzie acquired playmaking RBs and playmaking TEs. Besides, Ozzie is WAAAY better at drafting those two positions over WR.

An good at drafting defense also. I just wann see my teams secondary play well. And if pitta was healthy my comment wouldn be up and we probaly woulda won some of those games. Im not an expert and I'm also new to the forums. I do a lot of reading but when I comment it's usually about something worth talkin about.

[redlobster]

The frustrating thing is watching division mates develop wide receivers from later round picks

Bengals:

Mohammed Sanu - 3rd round pick

Marvin Jones - 5th round pick

Steelers:

Antonio brown - 6th round pick!

Emmanuel sanders - 3rd round pick

[Militant X 1]

I like what one of the members of the draft staff for the Giants said on that show last night...."Finding Giants".  He said that, "We have to draft "starters" right away to play in this league.  We don't have time to develop them!"  They were watching Beckham, Jr.  Lol!

[Ravenslifer]

The skins may be looking to unload Pierre Garcon because of his high cap number.  He's a real baller and tough as nails.  Also a very important blocker in their run game.  He'd fit right in with the Raven-way.  He also knows the 'Mike Shanahan' zbs & west cost offense.  As you all know, Shanahan was Kubiak's mentor.

 

Thoughts?

 

Depending on the price I'd consider bringing him in.  He was WAY overpaid by the Skins (his 2013 was identical to Torrey's, he was literally the only guy they have so was getting the bulk of the targets and now with DeSean Jackson there you can see the type of player he'd be for most teams), but for a reasonable deal he'd be a good player to have.

[RavensFanMania]

Depending on the price I'd consider bringing him in.  He was WAY overpaid by the Skins (his 2013 was identical to Torrey's, he was literally the only guy they have so was getting the bulk of the targets and now with DeSean Jackson there you can see the type of player he'd be for most teams), but for a reasonable deal he'd be a good player to have.

To his defense he has had no consistency with qbs

[reed20]

 

Solid NFL receivers.

Solid NFL receivers.

It says, if you'd go back and read, "solid NFL receivers"

 

But in actuality, when you look at their numbers, they're both right in line with what you typically see from #2 receivers, which are starters. And they were considered starters wherever they played.

They were never solid in my book.

 

Lee Evans (Bills) was solid.

Brandon Lafell is solid.

Malcolm Floyd is solid.

Keenan Allen is solid.

 

Clayton and Taylor were simply all we had for the most part. I'm still not going to forget that drop Clayton had against the Patriots.

[ravensnick]

We've really only drafted 3 WRs in the top 2 rounds in nearly 20 years? Wow..

That's the real problem. Expecting late round WRs and elder statemen to lead our Corps with no young talented guys.

[PurpleCity5]

That's the real problem. Expecting late round WRs and elder statemen to lead our Corps with no young talented guys.

Also the lack of polished guys. We really need to pick guys with skills and continuous upside, this is why I'm so high on DeVante Parker from Louisville. 

[jazz1988]

I like what one of the members of the draft staff for the Giants said on that show last night...."Finding Giants".  He said that, "We have to draft "starters" right away to play in this league.  We don't have time to develop them!"  They were watching Beckham, Jr.  Lol!

 

History has proven time and time  again you don't have to draft receivers in first round to get a future start or more especially if you have a good quarterback. I understand The Giants philosophy and it makes alot of sense to.

[RavensFanMania]

History has proven time and time again you don't have to draft receivers in first round to get a future start or more especially if you have a good quarterback. I understand The Giants philosophy and it makes alot of sense to.[/quote

Yes the Giants drafted obj this year but their drafts since 2010 have been horrid.