The reason for the dearth of WRs during the Flacco era

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Players drafted late or signed as UDFA's have an uphill climb establishing themselves in the NFL, in part because they generally are more raw, and thus less NFL ready, than guys drafted in earlier rounds. For this reason, late round/UDFA guys cannot afford to get hurt and miss too much practice or games as they need the training and experience to develop and grow as players. In general, even more so than guys drafted in earlier rounds.

 

Since 2002, Ozzie has constantly drafted late round projects at WR, and in the past few years has signed a few UDFA's who have made the roster or where signed to the practice squad.

 

Here's the list**:

 

Javin Hunter

Ron Johnson

Randy Hymes

Devard Darling

Derek Abney

Clarence Moore

Demetrius Williams

Marcus Smith

Yamon Figurs (more of a kick returner, but he was a 3rd round pick)

Marcus Maxwell

Ernie Wheelwright

David Reed

Eron Riley

Patrick Williams

Justin Harper

Laquan Williams

Tandon Doss

Tommy Streeter

Deonte Thompson

Gerrard Sheppard

Marlon Brown

Kamar Aiken

Aaron Mellette

Jeremy Butler

Michael Campanaro (so far, can't stay healthy)

 

Out of these 25 wide receivers, the only ones not to get IR'd or miss significant time with injury:

Ernie Wheelwright, Eron Riley, Patrick Williams, Gerrard Sheppard, Justin Harper, Marlon Brown & Kamar Aiken.

 

So, out of 25 recievers in the past 12 years, we've only had 7 stay healthy.

With only 2 of those 7, Marlon Brown and Kamar Aiken developing into solid NFL receivers.

 

In 13 years, only 2 out of 25, with 18 of them getting hurt.

 

And that's the reason why we can't go 4 or 5 wide with Joe in the shotgun all game when the running game isn't working. Because in any given season, we don't have 4 or 5 guys we can put on the field who can play, as we can't keep these project guys healthy long enough to give them a chance to develop. And we don't have enough cap space to pay for enough veteran free agents at WR after spending most of it on defense. So, we usually have just enough at receiver to put 2 or 3 guys on the field (including tight end, where for these past 2 seasons, Pitta has also been hurt), and that only works if you can do one of 2 things:

 

1) Use play action to manipulate the coverage so your receivers are in single coverage often enough.

2) Execute the short passing game (screens, short crosses, quick rubs & picks) out of bunch  sets and stack formations. Like the Broncos and Patriots are known for.

 

For whatever reasons, our guys suck at executing the short game, so that only leaves play action as a viable option. Unfortunately, since play action requires running the ball effectively, if we can't run the ball...we're sunk as our receivers aren't good enough to get open consistently against 6 or 7 in coverage, at least not against the better coverage units. They need enough of the coverage to be drawn away from them to get open. And their inability to beat press coverage is another huge problem.

 

The solution then is obvious: Draft and sign UDFA guys who won't get hurt and will develop into NFL caliber receivers. The problem is that we need a tight end, pass rusher, and several defensive backs, so can we finally devote an upper round pick to a wide receiver? We've had the best luck with getting them in the upper rounds as Travis Taylor, Mark Clayton and Torrey Smith all became solid starters, though none of them were/are Pro Bowlers. And yes,these are the only 3 at WR that we've drafted in the first 2 rounds.

 

** I'm sure this list isn't complete as it's difficult to find info on who was on our practice squad and for how long. Also, I'm trying not to count camp body types, so only guys who were on the practice squads for 2 seasons, which would indicate the team thought they had potential, or who were promoted to the team roster for several games are included. Unless they got hurt before they had a chance to be on the squad for 2 seasons, in which case they are listed.

[redrum52]

Um.. so what I got from this is Ozzies good at drafting wrs, right?

Also, I don't know if I read that right, but did you call Travis Taylor a good wr?

[PerpetuallyBored74]

I said Travis Taylor was a solid starter (for 7 seasons with the Ravens and Vikings)

A #2 type of WR, though drafted 10th overall, so he never lived up to his draft status.

 

And who knows if Ozzie's good at drafting WRs in the upper rounds when he does it so rarely.

3 guys in the first 2 rounds in 13 years is a small sample size.

And as for the lower round guys, they can't stay healthy, so again who knows if Ozzie is drafting talented guys or not.

[redrum52]

I can tell you why he's not. Look at position, who he drafts and who's drafted after. In his defense, it could also be that we're not good at developing their talent.

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Are you trolling me here?

The problem is we can't seem to keep these project guys healthy which prevents them from developing and having any chance to reach their potential.

18 out of 25 were hurt badly enough to either miss significant time or get IR'd.

That's 72%.

We have been snakebitten there.

[The Raven]

I can tell you why he's not. Look at position, who he drafts and who's drafted after. In his defense, it could also be that we're not good at developing their talent.

 

I think it's that we can't develop their talent. There's a reason some teams are WR factories and others aren't. It's coaching. We haven't had systems or coaches capable of developing wide receivers. 

[ratedr]

We've really only drafted 3 WRs in the top 2 rounds in nearly 20 years? Wow..

[PurpleCity5]

Pretty good analysis, I'll give you props for that. 

 

In Ozzie's defense, when it come to WR's. It could certainty be a whole lot worse. There are so many busts we could have drafted but instead, we've drafted pro bowlers from the BPA formula. But for some reason, we don't develop talent well. The solution is to draft talent, but we get so unlucky. Dez Bryant was a guy we wanted and I always tell this story because of how ironic it is. It always happens year after year. Then it was Alshon Jeffery, then it's Mike Evans. We always target the right guy, but they always get away from us. 

[redrum52]

Are you trolling me here?

The problem is we can't seem to keep these project guys healthy which prevents them from developing and having any chance to reach their potential.

18 out of 25 were hurt badly enough to either miss significant time or get IR'd.

That's 72%.

We have been snakebitten there.

It was half and half. I don't think many from that list would've done too well even if they remained healthy. Also, isn't physical toughness something you should be scouting as well? This is a pick I've complained about form years here. The Demetrius WillIams draft, he was selected in the 4th round. The next wr taken was Brandon Marshall a few picks later. They are both the same kind of wr aren't they? Tall physical types. Marshall for the most part has been healthy his whole career and Williams might have sold me my last car for all I know. There just obvious misses sometimes. I think besides not being able to evaluate the talent well at the position, we also dont coach em up well either.

[ratedr]

It was half and half. I don't think many from that list would've done too well even if they remained healthy. Also, isn't physical toughness something you should be scouting as well? This is a pick I've complained about form years here. The Demetrius WillIams draft, he was selected in the 4th round. The next wr taken was Brandon Marshall a few picks later. They are both the same kind of wr aren't they? Tall physical types. Marshall for the most part has been healthy his whole career and Williams might have sold me my last car for all I know. There just obvious misses sometimes. I think besides not being able to evaluate the talent well at the position, we also dont coach em up well either.

Thought our new WR coach would help.

 

Actually he has...with Aiken and Camp. Torrey is apparently a lost cause.

[hn68wb4]

22 positions  + multiple system players, can't address every single one every year. How many WRs are taken every year? how many succeed? not many....theres your answer. Add in that for 7/13 years we had a revolving door at QB and that never helps plus a solid starter in Mason for 5 of those years and Boldin for 2 so WR wasnt a big enough need to take one high - at least less of a need than multiple other positions, and when you have guys who are good enough to start you take late round projects because you can afford to do so, projects at WR don't have a high success rate for any team unless you have a Brady or a Manning under center even then its rare. Plus we've had pretty good success with FA WRs, even a guy like Qadry Ismail was a solid starter for us going over 1000 yds 2/3 seasons here

BTW, why did you narrow the focus to just the past 12/13 years? i mean how about Stokley in '99, I'd say he was a pretty successful player

And if your expectation is that we have more than "4 or 5 guys that can play" then I'd say you need to lower your expectations and give me any team that has more than 5 WRs that have consistent production...

 

side note: Mellette wasn't an UDFA and we didn't pick up Aiken as an UDFA, he's been in the league since 2011, only been here since 2013 - and its early to say he and Marlon have developed into solid starters, neither have had significant production that would warrant "solid starter" status, best season out of the two was Marlon last year with 500 yards

[PerpetuallyBored74]

I limited it to 2002 onward because if any receivers from those years had managed to stick, there's a good chance that Joe would have had another weapon or two in 2008, his rookie year, besides Mason, Heap and Clayton who would have still been young enough to be in their prime.

 

I didn't say Marlon and Kamar were solid starters, I said they were solid NFL receivers.

And I don't expect more than 5 NFL caliber receivers on our roster. I do expect us to have more than 2 or 3 though like the Packers, Broncos, Saints, Patriots, Steelers, etc usually have. This year, we actually have 4: Steve, Torrey, Marlon & Kamar. But often we've only had 2 or 3 and that lack of depth is a problem, especially when one or 2 guys get hurt.

 

You were right though that Mellette was a draft pick and not a UDFA.

Corrected this now, thanks.

 

My overall point was that injuries to these late round/UDFA receivers has curbed their development, and since they were projects to begin with, they needed all the practice and playing time they could get to even have a chance to develop.

And are you guys really serious that you think having 66% of your young talent at any position get hurt during the past 13 seasons is normal in the NFL?

 

(Including Torrey and Mark Clayton makes it 18 out of 27 total or 66%, who've gotten hurt overall)

[PerpetuallyBored74]

It was half and half. I don't think many from that list would've done too well even if they remained healthy. Also, isn't physical toughness something you should be scouting as well? This is a pick I've complained about form years here. The Demetrius WillIams draft, he was selected in the 4th round. The next wr taken was Brandon Marshall a few picks later. They are both the same kind of wr aren't they? Tall physical types. Marshall for the most part has been healthy his whole career and Williams might have sold me my last car for all I know. There just obvious misses sometimes. I think besides not being able to evaluate the talent well at the position, we also dont coach em up well either.

 

You don't actually need many from that list to pan out.

Just two or three over the past 13 years would have been enough. And if more than 28% from that list had remained healthy, maybe say half, then maybe we would have gotten two or three to become valuable contributors to the passing game. Not necessarily #1's or even starters, but valuable depth, which we've lacked at WR compared to other teams for years.

 

You have a point about evaluating whether a player has the physical toughness to play in the NFL before drafting him.

Your Williams over Marshall is an excellent example.

[JoeyFlex5]

the only time i can think of when we were in a position to draft a 1st round wr and didnt, was when we took oher over hakeem nicks, and he was injury plagued but i still think it wouldve been a better choice, although that wouldnt have fixed the problem youre speaking of because he was always hurt. nobody expected alshon jeffrey to turn out as good as he did, i mean yeah some could have said he was going to be good but he was a project and he was raw, so it was still a question mark, ozzie doesnt like question marks when drafting a player early. 

 

and all these IR landings, you can bet a good amount of them arent suffering from season ending injuries, our FO loves to stash raw project players on IR for a lingering hangnail to keep them from getting snatched off the practice squad. 

 

the problem simply is this, we dont consistently have the talent to spend a roster spot on, we take these project guys hoping they develop, and they never do, you can blame the coaching staff, but when it comes to WR's many players are a lost cause, you get a tall and fast player hoping they can be something, but they cant catch even if the ball hits them right in the hands, their speed is useless because they cant seperate, they never learn how to not telegraph what route theyre running, they cant remember the playbook, they have zero body control and cant use their size properly, etc. we have all these late rounders and UDFA's who have likely been coasting by on size and speed their whole lives, and in high school and college that stuff can work great, but you cant succeed against NFL competition like that. 

 

the closest player we have had to turning into "that" wr, id say would be demetrius williams and marlon brown, marlon brown has been an effective chain mover and last year was a great redzone threat, demetrius williams had insane range and body control, and had a knack for making impossible catches, but wasnt consistent enough and got hurt often. 

[codizzle]

Good ole demetrius

He was the next big thing for how long? Ravens fans will cling to any small hope at the WR position haha

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Good ole demetrius

He was the next big thing for how long? Ravens fans will cling to any small hope at the WR position haha

 

Eron Riley, so much promise and potential, Ozzie had found a true diamond in the rough.

Bounced around several team's practice squads after we cut him and is now out of the league.

Never caught a regular season pass in his NFL career.

[The Mom Gene]

Thought our new WR coach would help.

 

Actually he has...with Aiken and Camp. Torrey is apparently a lost cause.

WHen a receiver has a decent year, he is actually played by the opposing team.  I don't know how closely you watch, but Torrey is often times double covered.   You may consider him a lost cause, and maybe as a 1, but not as a deep threat. It seems we only "notice" when we lose...  the guy has actually won a few games for us.

 

It is my belief that Marlon is the one with the potential... as a slot guy..  along with Aiken.

[H8R]

I think it's that we can't develop their talent. There's a reason some teams are WR factories and others aren't. It's coaching. We haven't had systems or coaches capable of developing wide receivers.

No other teams developed their talent either...

[H8R]

WHen a receiver has a decent year, he is actually played by the opposing team. I don't know how closely you watch, but Torrey is often times double covered. You may consider him a lost cause, and maybe as a 1, but not as a deep threat. It seems we only "notice" when we lose... the guy has actually won a few games for us.

It is my belief that Marlon is the one with the potential... as a slot guy.. along with Aiken.

Torrey has also lost PLENTY of games for us.... That's a more telling stat for a WR... He doesn't even consistently catch the easy ones..

[ratedr]

Torrey has also lost PLENTY of games for us.... That's a more telling stat for a WR... He doesn't even consistently catch the easy ones..

The last time the offense looked good was during the second half of the Miami game, and that's when Torrey's snaps were limited in favor of Brown/Aiken. I don't think that that was a coincidence. At all.

[jazz1988]

The last time the offense looked good was during the second half of the Miami game, and that's when Torrey's snaps were limited in favor of Brown/Aiken. I don't think that that was a coincidence. At all. 

 

They still didn't look good on sunday and Torrey Smith wasn't always on the field either. 

[ratedr]

They still didn't look good on sunday and Torrey Smith wasn't always on the field either.

Well nothing at all worked yesterday, Watt singlehandedly wrecked our line.

[jazz1988]

Well nothing at all worked yesterday, Watt singlehandedly wrecked our line.

 

Thats on Gary Kubiak and the same can be said about our receivers. Gary Kubiak really didn't do a good job  with helping our receivers get open and for him to not ask a tight end to block help block JJ Watt is the most dumbest thing I ever seen

[jazz1988]

Torrey has also lost PLENTY of games for us.... That's a more telling stat for a WR... He doesn't even consistently catch the easy ones..

What games are that ?

[Tru11]

drafting players is simply a gamble.

 

a gamble that is close tied to a rookie scale, which means you are investing money hoping to get a good Return on your investment.

 

the reason why ozzie&co grade every player and place them on their draftboard is to give them the highest % to avoid losing out.

 

Fans dont realise that reaching for players is not wise because the % that it back fires increases.

When you have mosley sitting there but the next best WR is Benjamin who has a way lower grade , you dont reach based on need.

 

BPA decreases chances of a bust.

 

its not a perfect method but given ozzie track record nobody can say it doesent work.

 

later rounds where there is less money tied into it is when you can take more risk.

 

in the end the ravens still run a bussines.

 

If you want to see how it not should be done just look at the al davis raiders or the jerry jones cowboys. ( prior to last 2 drafts)

Heck look at the browns reaching for weeden , broncos taking tebow enz....

[443hurricane]

Pretty good analysis, I'll give you props for that. 

 

In Ozzie's defense, when it come to WR's. It could certainty be a whole lot worse. There are so many busts we could have drafted but instead, we've drafted pro bowlers from the BPA formula. But for some reason, we don't develop talent well. The solution is to draft talent, but we get so unlucky. Dez Bryant was a guy we wanted and I always tell this story because of how ironic it is. It always happens year after year. Then it was Alshon Jeffery, then it's Mike Evans. We always target the right guy, but they always get away from us. 

Exactly his analysis is still skewed, because he brought in some pretty strong free agents. Boldin, Smith Sr, Jacoby Jones (until this year) so maybe we need to go the free agent route more often.

[Militant X 1]

I think it's that we can't develop their talent. There's a reason some teams are WR factories and others aren't. It's coaching. We haven't had systems or coaches capable of developing wide receivers. 

 

I agree!  I mentioned this a while back in reference to Torrey Smith's development in comparison to Antonio Brown's development as a top #1 WR in the league.  Torrey was selected by the Ravens in the 2nd round, the 58th overall pick in the 2011 NFL Draft and Antonio Brown was drafted by the Steelers as their second of two selections in the 6th round, the 195th overall pick in the 2010 NFL Draft.  I questioned how it was that a 6th rounder can come on the scene like gangbusters for his team and be a major player in the league and our 2nd rounder is still struggling with his route running?  Of course, I got the different systems excuses and more.  Please!  Smh!

[Tenacious Faulker]

1)  Ozzie can identify the talent, but refuses to overspend (i.e draft picks) to get them because we usually draft so low.

2)  The Ravens have been awful at developing their WR corps.  I can't put a finger on it but they've been bad no matter who the coach is.

3)  Kubiak may be able to do more with developing the offense's WR consistency IF he stays for another year as our OC.  After yesterday he just might.

4)  The Ravens also tend to find good WRs in free agency too, but they always tend to be less productive here - Mason, Boldin, Smith Sr., Houshmanzadeh.  Again, it seems like WR coaching and coordination, but coaches have changed and things are the same.

 

This team seems to suck the life out of WRs.  

[52N19]

this is a good thread because it identifies such a big issue for the ravens. some responses to the thread said it was because of where we were in draft position.

 

look at Pittsburgh . they don't draft much different from us. they lost emmaule sanders and mike wallace to FA and they don't have enough footballs to throw to their new crop of receivers. please stop making it sound like boldin was randy moss. he was a possesion receiver who was a tough guy but also dropped passes.

 

the ravens are a great organization but the idea that ozzie is the best GM in the game is a stretch. he may be good to very good but not very good to great. look at the talent on the seahawks. none of them are FA's they are all low round draft picks.

 

you could start a thread like this for offensive lineman as well. grubbs, yanda, osemele and ogden. there were a lot of misses to get to these 4. i don;t want to start a boller conversation but i'm suprised he made it out fo the NFL alive wiht the olines he had.

[RaineV1]

4)  The Ravens also tend to find good WRs in free agency too, but they always tend to be less productive here - Mason, Boldin, Smith Sr., Houshmanzadeh.  Again, it seems like WR coaching and coordination, but coaches have changed and things are the same. 

SSS actually has been more productive for the Ravens than he was the last couple of seasons for the Panthers. Boldin became productive but that was only after we got rid of Cam and his deep ball fixation.