Hard to Argue w/Ravens' 1st 2 Picks in this year's draft but.......

[stampedehero]

I agree. It looks like he'll be a great gem for their offense. And he's multi-skilled just like the Ravens like!

Maybe at some point in the future when he excels and his contract is up we could offer him the fine cuisine and luxurious llifestyle   of Bal.  lol   Hey, if I could make millions in Fla with tax incentives, beautiful weather, ocean cruises to the Carib and score with retired folks i would squeeze on a Dolphins helmut.   

[Tiz]

Opening post didn't say anything other than I'm not thrilled with our WR corps.

And that is where I disagree with it.

Even cited how balanced our offense is because of the wrs you're not fond of.

[cushrinada1986]

I remember a lot of people here wanting Latimer and Robinson. Sometimes the fans aren't wrong. It's definitely frustrating. And then we wonder why the offense underperforms.

Its even harder knowing we were only 5 picks from Beckham. going by the draft value chart, if we had given away our 1st and both our 3rds(crockett and brooks), that would have been enough value to move up into that spot. Yeah, totally hindsight I know but would it have been worth not getting mosley in a already aging LB core? going by how our offense went this season, having had Beckham as #1, Smith #2, and Smith Sr #3, that lineup may have made a lot more difference this season and going into the long term....

[redlobster]

Its even harder knowing we were only 5 picks from Beckham. going by the draft value chart, if we had given away our 1st and both our 3rds(crockett and brooks), that would have been enough value to move up into that spot. Yeah, totally hindsight I know but would it have been worth not getting mosley in a already aging LB core? going by how our offense went this season, having had Beckham as #1, Smith #2, and Smith Sr #3, that lineup may have made a lot more difference this season and going into the long term....

Giving up two 3rd round picks in 2014 would have been impossible since you can't trade comp picks.

[Inqui]

Giving up two 3rd round picks in 2014 would have been impossible since you can't trade comp picks.

And even that assumes 1) the Giants take up the offer ($500 says they loved OBJ too); 2) CJ suddenly dropped a few places on our board (bear in mind that if we traded up to 10 or lower, he was our guy).

[usmccharles]

We will never take a WR in the first round.  Our best bet is getting one in FA like always.  We need another wr like Boldin, i was hoping Smith Sr was that but hes clearly not close.   I didnt read this whole thread, but does anyone have a list of the upcoming free agent wrs. 

[flynismo]

The Falcons have a crap defense and while Matt Ryan is not as good as Joe Flacco, he has put up numbers with Jones and White. You do know the Falcons went to the playoffs 4 out of 7 years with those guys right?

I guarantee you right here if Flacco had Roddy White and Julio Jones this year, this entire forum would look a whole lot different.

What wide receiver on the Bears scares anyone? Brandon Marshall got put on IR but he's not a playmaker. Not to mention they have a QB who has talent but is basically as Rob Long puts it....a loser. Jay Cutler doesn't have the success or pedigree in the NFL Joe Flacco has. We talk about Joe's one 3 interception game this year, Cutler's had one. Cutler's also had 6 games this year where he's thrown 2 picks, Flacco only 2 games. Cutler's got only 4 games this year where he's thrown no interceptions, Flacco has 7.

The need for a playmaker WR on this team is evident. We don't have one, so when the offense is sputtering or the QB is having a bad day there is NO ONE ON THIS TEAM who can help him out and get in a position to make a play on the ball or get behind the defense so Joe can launch the ball downfield. He threw his first deep pass to KAMAR AIKEN!!! At least when Boldin was here he has such strong hands that anything Joe threw at him was caught. Who on this team this year has done that? No one.

When's the last time Torrey even got a step or two on a CB? They are running stride for stride with him now and no longer even bothering to double him up. That opens up nothing in the middle of the field, so when Joe's only option is Owen Daniels on a short post, there are three Texans around him.

So we need that big time receiver on the team, and I think most reasonable people know that by now. Flacco's never had it, and although he's succeeded without it before, getting him one now would put him over the hump in getting some of these wins we can't get because receivers drop the ball in the endzone or can't even get open so we have to settle for field goals. Wasn't that the big complaint against the Chargers?

Who would I cut or trade? Start with Haloti Ngata. Maybe we give up a couple picks in the 2015 draft to move up and get a top flight guy. Ozzie is such a smart man, you have to think he could get it done.

A simpler way of saying it would just pointing to Steve Smith in the first half of the season. When Smith was playing well, Flacco was carving defenses up at will, even with little else to throw the ball to other than SSS.

Smitty has since slowed down, and not coincidentally, so has our pass game.

[Wildabeast88]

Trading back in the first and getting kelvin Benjamin would have been a steal in hindsight . I thought he would be a bust but he has been strong on a panthers team with no other receivers

Kelvin Benjamin or CJ I'm taking CJ all day every day

[redlobster]

Kelvin Benjamin or CJ I'm taking CJ all day every day

 

Ehh, in hindsight, I would have traded back and gained the other teams 1st and 2nd pick and drafted Benjamin or another top tier WR and picked up Borland/Preston Brown (with the 3rd) and a CB in the second along with Jernigan.

 

I feel like the Ravens are drafting for a type of football that isn't played anymore, the ILB is not a high value position anymore.

[cushrinada1986]

Ehh, in hindsight, I would have traded back and gained the other teams 1st and 2nd pick and drafted Benjamin or another top tier WR and picked up Borland/Preston Brown (with the 3rd) and a CB in the second along with Jernigan.

 

I feel like the Ravens are drafting for a type of football that isn't played anymore, the ILB is not a high value position anymore.

Agreed, in todays passing offense, slot CBs are basically starters so the more effective CBs the better overall D. Look at Seattle, they have pretty good LB's, one being the current SB MVP but at the same time, that DB is what their actually known for. 

[ravensnick]

I'm high on Marlon also.  I think Torrey, SSS, and JJ can be impactful players, but we need at least two more (a #1 WR and a stud TE) to make this a dynamic WR corps.  In other words, let's not throw away everyone we have, but limit their roles as premiere guys

This is pretty uch what I think. But I think we either need to let marlon develop or keep Torrey, not both.

[Tiz]

This is pretty uch what I think. But I think we either need to let marlon develop or keep Torrey, not both.

Why is it an either or thing?

We use anywhere from 2 to 4 wrs on plays which means it's possible and realistic to have both torrey and marlon. Considering that they aren't asked to do the same thing and are used in different ways i question why someone thinks we shouldn't and couldn't have both.

[RaineV1]

Why is it an either or thing?

We use anywhere from 2 to 4 wrs on plays which means it's possible and realistic to have both torrey and marlon. Considering that they aren't asked to do the same thing and are used in different ways i question why someone thinks we shouldn't and couldn't have both.

Because you also have to include SSS, Aiken, Camp, and possibly a rookie receiver in the mix.

[Tiz]

Because you also have to include SSS, Aiken, Camp, and possibly a rookie receiver in the mix.

Who said I wasnt. Torrey is the only deep threat and marlon is our strongest wr. So if I take into consideration smith sr, Aiken, camp and a rookie we are looking at 6 wrs. Just an FYI we currently utilize 6 now. The reality is Owen Daniels, pitta and smith sr aren't likely to repeat the success they've had previously whether it's age or injuries so it's foolish to think you'd then have to choose between torrey and marlon.

Marlons contract is minimal and between Webb and ngata there'll be some money freed up that more than covers torrey

[ravensnick]

Why is it an either or thing?

We use anywhere from 2 to 4 wrs on plays which means it's possible and realistic to have both torrey and marlon. Considering that they aren't asked to do the same thing and are used in different ways i question why someone thinks we shouldn't and couldn't have both.

Too many wrs in the corp. You can't give Marlon the playing time he needs to mature if they give Torrey a fat contract. We either need to "give up" on Marlon and keep him as a nice rotational guy, or test him next year and draft a rookie high as insurance and to counter Smith Sr. age.

[Tiz]

Too many wrs in the corp. You can't give Marlon the playing time he needs to mature if they give Torrey a fat contract. We either need to "give up" on Marlon and keep him as a nice rotational guy, or test him next year and draft a rookie high as insurance and to counter Smith Sr. age.

We'd have essentially the same wrs minus Jacobs next year. Malon being the #3 wr he would get the reps to produce just like last year. It's as if you guys forgot that the offense can function with both torrey and Marlon it's not an either or situation as neither are the worse two on the team.

I will say it again

The team can have both guys plus a few more to round out the team.

[ravensnick]

We'd have essentially the same wrs minus Jacobs next year. Malon being the #3 wr he would get the reps to produce just like last year. It's as if you guys forgot that the offense can function with both torrey and Marlon it's not an either or situation as neither are the worse two on the team.

I will say it again

The team can have both guys plus a few more to round out the team.

if we want to develop a highly picked rookie and develop Marlon, we should bring back Torrey. That scenario would be best for WR corp development.

[cursona pirate]

Torrey needs to stay. 11 touchdowns isn't a gimme. He also was injured this year too. If we can get a #1 receiver with the 2 smiths. Then we could be good. 

[beanfigger]

Sure, it would have been nice. However, we made the playoffs drafting defenders. How'd those teams that took receivers in the first couple rounds do? The only one I see in the playoffs is Benjamin from the Panthers, and, well...

[Ravensuperfan1]

we made the right draft picks this year. Nothing to complain about. If you want to complain about draft picks talk about the previous draft

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Campanero will wind up being a steal. Marlon and Aiken need more chances, they catch everything.

 

I honestly am very optimistic about our young WR's.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Too many wrs in the corp. You can't give Marlon the playing time he needs to mature if they give Torrey a fat contract. We either need to "give up" on Marlon and keep him as a nice rotational guy, or test him next year and draft a rookie high as insurance and to counter Smith Sr. age.

 

Why cant you keep Marlon and Torrey? SSS will be gone after next year. Then there's your #1 (Marlon), Torrey, Aiken as your #3 on the outside and Camp in the slot.

 

There's a lot of potential in that group. And then since Jacoby and SSS will be leaving you can either grab a proven vet in FA, or draft an early round receiver to develop.

[ravensnick]

Why cant you keep Marlon and Torrey? SSS will be gone after next year. Then there's your #1 (Marlon), Torrey, Aiken as your #3 on the outside and Camp in the slot.

 

There's a lot of potential in that group. And then since Jacoby and SSS will be leaving you can either grab a proven vet in FA, or draft an early round receiver to develop.

Exactly. I think SSS will be done soon. We'll need Marlon to take the place of the possession wr because that's something Torrey could never do. iIf we resign Torrey, He only has limited strengths. Deep ball and slants are about it. I say just save some money and develop Camp, Marlon, and a round 1-2 rookie over expecting torrey to show us something he hasn't shown yet.

[ravensdfan]

We'd have essentially the same wrs minus Jacobs next year. Malon being the #3 wr he would get the reps to produce just like last year. It's as if you guys forgot that the offense can function with both torrey and Marlon it's not an either or situation as neither are the worse two on the team.

I will say it again

The team can have both guys plus a few more to round out the team.

I am fine with Torrey being here next year but no way we should overpay for him just to keep him here. His performance just doesn't warrant the big WR contract that it is sounding like he expects.

[balfan23]

It's just hard to look at all the WRs in this class that are just killing it this season. Looking at just the first two rounds, we had 3 go before we picked Mosley (Watkins, Evans, Beckam) and two after in the first round (Cooks, Benjamin).

 

Second round, three before us (M. Lee, J. Matthews, P. Richardson) and four after us (D.Adams, C. Latimer, A.Robinson, J. Landry). 

 

Both of our two picks have been impactful starters so there's no argument there. It's still just hard to reconcile how we missed out on the "best WR class in NFL history." Outside of Marlon Brown (I'm very high on him) I'm just not thrilled with our receiving corps. What could or should we have done????

I'm not as interested in what we should have done, rather I'm interested in what we should do. Honestly, I don't know that - given our draft position last year, whether or not any receiver that remained in either 1st or 2nd round was a better pick than what we got. Would you rather have Benjamin or Mosely, Matthews or Jernigan? I think if Beckham were still there at 17, that would make for good debate ... but he wasn't. 

 

I think WR is a focus position in player development and I anticipate there will be stud WRs that we can find going forward. From all accounts, the WR crop coming in next year will be very good. The notion that 2014 was the best WR class in history is going to continue to get challenged. 

[balfan23]

I am fine with Torrey being here next year but no way we should overpay for him just to keep him here. His performance just doesn't warrant the big WR contract that it is sounding like he expects.

I have a feeling that his 2014 performance is going to temper the market for him and given his connection to this area, we'll work something out with him that also works for the team. I certainly hope so. Under present circumstances, he's the best WR we've got. 

[Tiz]

I am fine with Torrey being here next year but no way we should overpay for him just to keep him here. His performance just doesn't warrant the big WR contract that it is sounding like he expects.

I agree and don't think he will be overpaid or rather paid like a #1. hell we traded boldin because of his pay and this is after he played a big role in the playoffs.

[Ravenslifer]

I'm not as interested in what we should have done, rather I'm interested in what we should do. Honestly, I don't know that - given our draft position last year, whether or not any receiver that remained in either 1st or 2nd round was a better pick than what we got. Would you rather have Benjamin or Mosely, Matthews or Jernigan? I think if Beckham were still there at 17, that would make for good debate ... but he wasn't. 

 

I think WR is a focus position in player development and I anticipate there will be stud WRs that we can find going forward. From all accounts, the WR crop coming in next year will be very good. The notion that 2014 was the best WR class in history is going to continue to get challenged. 

 

It comes down to talent vs. impact - honestly I'd rather have taken Kyle Fuller if it came down to it.  You're talking about Mosley, a potential perennial pro bowl player, but at a position that's not as important as other positions in the game today, vs. a guy like Kelvin Benjamin who put up 1000 yards and 9 TDs despite the fact that Cameron Newton had maybe the worst passing season of his career - fewest yards, TDs, second lowest completion percentage by less than a percentage point.  I don't think we'd go wrong with either player, honestly, the problem is not perhaps CJ himself but the fact that he represents a continual cycle of drafting defense (haven't spent a first round pick on offense since 2009) that may continue this year, next year, the year after, who knows.  We went 6 years between Clayton and Torrey, and it will be 4 years since Torrey in the 2015 draft.  I think we need to draft a receiver early in the 2015 draft, but I don't think it will actually happen, and that's what I fear.

[JoeyFlex5]

It comes down to talent vs. impact - honestly I'd rather have taken Kyle Fuller if it came down to it.  You're talking about Mosley, a potential perennial pro bowl player, but at a position that's not as important as other positions in the game today, vs. a guy like Kelvin Benjamin who put up 1000 yards and 9 TDs despite the fact that Cameron Newton had maybe the worst passing season of his career - fewest yards, TDs, second lowest completion percentage by less than a percentage point.  I don't think we'd go wrong with either player, honestly, the problem is not perhaps CJ himself but the fact that he represents a continual cycle of drafting defense (haven't spent a first round pick on offense since 2009) that may continue this year, next year, the year after, who knows.  We went 6 years between Clayton and Torrey, and it will be 4 years since Torrey in the 2015 draft.  I think we need to draft a receiver early in the 2015 draft, but I don't think it will actually happen, and that's what I fear.

this is why you are not a gm, no offense. but even if fuller were there at 17, ozzie was still gonna pick mosley. the bears reached(not a huge reach, but still a reach) for a position they were desperate at, you can bet they wanted donald, but he was picked 1 spot before them, so instead of taking the best player on the board, they went for an impact position that they felt had a hole in it, which is fine and all, but that is what FA is for, the draft is for getting the absolute best player there and filling your roster with studs to be well rounded and groom superstars under cheap rookie contracts, mosley was a top 10 talent and fuller belonged more in the 20-15 range. 

 

you think if the bears could re-do this draft and go strictly BPA, they still take fuller over mosley? you think the ravens would draft any differently in the first round even after seeing what happened to our secondary? i doubt it.

[Ravenslifer]

this is why you are not a gm, no offense. but even if fuller were there at 17, ozzie was still gonna pick mosley. the bears reached(not a huge reach, but still a reach) for a position they were desperate at, you can bet they wanted donald, but he was picked 1 spot before them, so instead of taking the best player on the board, they went for an impact position that they felt had a hole in it, which is fine and all, but that is what FA is for, the draft is for getting the absolute best player there and filling your roster with studs to be well rounded and groom superstars under cheap rookie contracts, mosley was a top 10 talent and fuller belonged more in the 20-15 range. 

 

you think if the bears could re-do this draft and go strictly BPA, they still take fuller over mosley? you think the ravens would draft any differently in the first round even after seeing what happened to our secondary? i doubt it.

 

Not gonna lie, that's a pretty arrogant statement - so you're basically saying every GM either thinks like Ozzie or is incompetent.  No, I don't believe every GM takes the most talented player available - some of them will take a less talented player at a position of need.  Good GMs, in fact, do this more than you think - the Panthers were laughed at for taking Benjamin over receivers that were considered better players and more sure things, and nobody's laughing now.  And apparently the Ravens thought Matt Elam was a top 20 talent they took at 32, if you go by the post-draft interviews - very clearly 15 teams either didn't want him or knew something the Ravens FO didn't, and the Texans took Swearinger in the second round, who has been a far better player than Elam.  Just because the Ravens have one way of successfully building a franchise doesn't mean that there aren't others.