Hard to Argue w/Ravens' 1st 2 Picks in this year's draft but.......

[hn68wb4]

How? I see one HoFer on there but not much else.

wait what?

not much else? do you even watch football?

Johnson is HoFer, Harrison is easily a HoFer, Owens will probably be a first ballot HoFer if his character doesn't get in the way, Glenn was very good, Moulds was 2x all pro, Muhammad was all pro as well, Toomer went over 1000 yds 5 years in a row, Horn was a 4x pro bowler, and if you don't know who Lewis is then you need to relinquish your Raven fan status

 

i don't know if you're being sarcastic or what

[codizzle]

I was also a big Allen Robinson fan. Haven't seen him mucg at all in the pros

He started out really great then ended up on IR around week 9-10 I believe

[PerpetuallyBored74]

So out of those receivers, who is the #1 playmaker?   Who's our Dez Bryant?  Our Randall Cobb?  Our Julio Jones/Roddy White?  Our AJ Green?   Because we don't have that.

 

Why do you need any of those guys (might as well throw in Megatron too)? Are they helping their teams win championships, or even make the playoffs on a consistent basis? (Cobb doesn't count since he plays with the best QB in the league.) Don't get me wrong. Would love to have a legit #1 WR on this team for once, but I don't think a single player is going to magically make this offense better/more consistent...

 

Your asking this question during a season where the Cowboys, Packers, Lions, Steelers (A. Brown), Colts, (Hilton), Patriots (Gronkowski), and Broncos (D. Thomas) have all made the playoffs and the Bengals, Falcons, Saints (Graham), Chargers (Gates/Allen) and Panthers (Benjamin/Olsen) have a decent shot?

The only playoff teams, besides possibly us, who have gotten in without a top flight WR or TE are Seattle, who have Marshawn, that killer D and the best scrambling QB since Tarkenton, and arguably the Cardinals who still have Fitzgerald, but he may be on the decline now.

[Tru11]

i dont think people realise top Receivers are like double edged swords.

 

yes you get a top flight talent that can win and take over games, but if the opponent can limit them you will most likely loose.

Looking at this season alone you can bet on any of the top Receiver to dissapear for a few games lol

Then when you consider they command large contracts that eat cap space, im not sure why people want them so bad.

 

heck anyone seen the colts without hilton last night?

 

that is what people want?

[PerpetuallyBored74]

i dont think people realise top Receivers are like double edged swords.

 

yes you get a top flight talent that can win and take over games, but if the opponent can limit them you will most likely loose.

Looking at this season alone you can bet on any of the top Receiver to dissapear for a few games lol

Then when you consider take command large contracts that eat cap space, im not sure why people want them so bad.

 

heck anyone seen the colts without hilton last night?

 

that is what people want?

 

Question is where would the Colts be this season if they didn't have Hilton at all?

Give them say, Jacoby Jones in his place. Do the Colts then win fewer games or more or is it the same?

Do they even make the playoffs?

[H8R]

i dont think people realise top Receivers are like double edged swords.

yes you get a top flight talent that can win and take over games, but if the opponent can limit them you will most likely loose.

Looking at this season alone you can bet on any of the top Receiver to dissapear for a few games lol

Then when you consider take command large contracts that eat cap space, im not sure why people want them so bad.

heck anyone seen the colts without hilton last night?

that is what people want?

In my eyes, you're not a top WR if you can't beat double coverage.

Watching that half mind Dez Bryant sure makes me wish that we could went up a couple picks in that draft... But the guy is a complete fool usually... I feel like there will be more problems for him ... Either way, he makes crAzy catches

[StingerNLG]

i dont think people realise top Receivers are like double edged swords.

 

yes you get a top flight talent that can win and take over games, but if the opponent can limit them you will most likely loose.

Looking at this season alone you can bet on any of the top Receiver to dissapear for a few games lol

Then when you consider take command large contracts that eat cap space, im not sure why people want them so bad.

 

heck anyone seen the colts without hilton last night?

 

that is what people want?

 

Right, but that is just the point.  They have TY Hilton and he helps them win games.  

 

We just don't have that guy.   We have a bunch of #2 guys who are decent, but no one gameplans for.

[H8R]

Question is where would the Colts be this season if they didn't have Hilton at all?

Give them say, Jacoby Jones in his place. Do the Colts then win fewer games or more or is it the same?

Do they even make the playoffs?

They're worse, IMO.

[H8R]

Right, but that is just the point. They have TY Hilton and he helps them win games.

We just don't have that guy. We have a bunch of #2 guys who are decent, but no one gameplans for.

The Ravens WRs are like the Orioles rotation... Plenty of depth but no stars, No No.1's..

[Tru11]

Question is where would the Colts be this season if they didn't have Hilton at all?

Give them say, Jacoby Jones in his place. Do the Colts then win fewer games or more or is it the same?

Do they even make the playoffs?

 

 

Right, but that is just the point.  They have TY Hilton and he helps them win games.  

 

We just don't have that guy.   We have a bunch of #2 guys who are decent, but no one gameplans for.

 

a bunch of #2 give you a better chance of winning then having just 1 #1 guy.

 

with our #2 we still had a shot to win any of the games we lost this season.

 

with out that 1 #1 guy the colts got destroyed.

 

teams like the falcons and bears have 2 #1 guys but cant even get to .500 lol

 

well tell me what position are you willing to sacrifice to pay a #1 WR?

draft you will have to trade up.

trade will cost alot.

FA you will need alot of cap space.

 

so would be cut or traded to make room?

[redlobster]

Benjamin

Landry

Robinson

Richardson

Moncrief

John Brown

 

All should have been given consideration in their respective rounds. 

[Ravens1991]

IDK if this was posted I didnt fully read the thread but I think people are forgetting that Dline was a legit need for us coming into the most recent draft. We had 4 contributors on our roster  Tyson, Ngata, Canty, Williams.  Tyson and Williams were still young and green. Ngata and Canty are 30+. Dline was just a big of need as WR. We got a top 15-20 dline talent round 2. There wasn't a top 15-20 WR talent at our pick.

[Ravenslifer]

I was also a big Allen Robinson fan. Haven't seen him mucg at all in the pros

 

He played very well when given an opportunity. Same with Marquis Lee.  Their biggest problem this season, aside from being rookies, is growing with a rookie QB in Bortles.

[Ravenslifer]

The Ravens WRs are like the Orioles rotation... Plenty of depth but no stars, No No.1's..

 

That's probably the best way to put it.  The closest thing we might have had to a "star" would have been a healthy Dennis Pitta.

[Drew P]

Benjamin

Landry

Robinson

Richardson

Moncrief

John Brown

 

All should have been given consideration in their respective rounds. 

 

And then what have them sit on the sideline while Torrey and Sr. lumber out there each play?

 

Its not a talent issue its a systemic issue the Ravens shot themselves in the foot inking Gubiak he had AJ, Foster and a lights out defense and couldnt get out of round 2 in the playoffs. Freakin' Andre Johnson in his prime for Pete's sake.

 

The fan base then demanded a WR early to compliment AJ and they drafted Hopkins in round 1 and then...they sucked, got them the first pick this year.  Its a pedestrian style offense, its antiquated and obsolete unless they get Adrian Peterson and Marshawn it wont work.

[ravensdfan]

Why do you need any of those guys (might as well throw in Megatron too)? Are they helping their teams win championships, or even make the playoffs on a consistent basis? (Cobb doesn't count since he plays with the best QB in the league.) Don't get me wrong. Would love to have a legit #1 WR on this team for once, but I don't think a single player is going to magically make this offense better/more consistent...

We don't need a Megatron type. What we do need is someone above round 7 talent. If we had anyone who could run a quick crossing route correctly, we could have negated the effect of their blitz. We do not have that person. Our receiving corps is beyond sub par to the rest of the league.

Torrey is a one trick pony not worthy right now of a 2nd round pick and we haven't drafted a WR above round 6 since. We poured the last six top picks into the defensive line and how many games this season have they been a non-factor? Including this loss. It is insane to believe after watching our receivers constantly fail to get any separation at all, not be where they're supposed to be on timing routes, not fight for any contested balls, drop balls placed perfectly in their hands, not just this game but all season long, that some actual talent at the position would go a long way in making us better. It is the very reason we cannot perform with a strong blitz - lack of talent at WR. You can blame the O line but if we could do quick release attacks we can overcome that blitz. We can't do them, 9 times out of 10 it is an INT or an almost INT because our receivers are not where they're supposed to be.

[redlobster]

And then what have them sit on the sideline while Torrey and Sr. lumber out there each play?

 

Its not a talent issue its a systemic issue the Ravens shot themselves in the foot inking Gubiak he had AJ, Foster and a lights out defense and couldnt get out of round 2 in the playoffs. Freakin' Andre Johnson in his prime for Pete's sake.

 

The fan base then demanded a WR early to compliment AJ and they drafted Hopkins in round 1 and then...they sucked, got them the first pick this year.  Its a pedestrian style offense, its antiquated and obsolete unless they get Adrian Peterson and Marshawn it wont work.

 

Why couldn't we run a 1 TE, 3 WR, 1 back offense? Not to mention having somebody that could come in for Smith Sr when they were running 2 WR 2 Back 1 TE or 2 WR 2 TE 1 Back sets would be nice as well. Smith Sr is clearly gassed, breaking down, or lacks the motivation when not playing against NFC south teams.

[Ravenseconbeast]

Value wise, both Mosley and Jernigan are BPA.  I really have nothing to argue about that.   It's honestly the best 1st/2nd round combo pick we might've ever had.   

I think if we had diggs and corey to fit them into our roster(and we had enough cap to fit them in), we'd clearly be 1st round bye team by now.   

 

We also might've still had Jimmy around, with him just basically cover man on #1 receivers instead of compensating to act as a 3rd slot corner and stretch his snaps more than he should.  

 

It's just all scenarios to me.  It was a great draft.   Few things fell off that just should not have happened(like Pitta #2 butt injury) and Jimmy.   jmo

[StingerNLG]

a bunch of #2 give you a better chance of winning then having just 1 #1 guy.

 

with our #2 we still had a shot to win any of the games we lost this season.

 

with out that 1 #1 guy the colts got destroyed.

 

teams like the falcons and bears have 2 #1 guys but cant even get to .500 lol

 

well tell me what position are you willing to sacrifice to pay a #1 WR?

draft you will have to trade up.

trade will cost alot.

FA you will need alot of cap space.

 

so would be cut or traded to make room?

 

 

The Falcons have a crap defense and while Matt Ryan is not as good as Joe Flacco, he has put up numbers with Jones and White.   You do know the Falcons went to the playoffs 4 out of 7 years with those guys right? 

 

I guarantee you right here if Flacco had Roddy White and Julio Jones this year, this entire forum would look a whole lot different. 

 

What wide receiver on the Bears scares anyone?  Brandon Marshall got put on IR but he's not a playmaker.    Not to mention they have a QB who has talent but is basically as Rob Long puts it....a loser.   Jay Cutler doesn't have the success or pedigree in the NFL Joe Flacco has.   We talk about Joe's one 3 interception game this year, Cutler's had one.   Cutler's also had 6 games this year where he's thrown 2 picks, Flacco only 2 games.  Cutler's got only 4 games this year where he's thrown no interceptions, Flacco has 7.

 

The need for a playmaker WR on this team is evident.  We don't have one, so when the offense is sputtering or the QB is having a bad day there is NO ONE ON THIS TEAM who can help him out and get in a position to make a play on the ball or get behind the defense so Joe can launch the ball downfield.   He threw his first deep pass to KAMAR AIKEN!!!   At least when Boldin was here he has such strong hands that anything Joe threw at him was caught.  Who on this team this year has done that?   No one.

 

When's the last time Torrey even got a step or two on a CB?   They are running stride for stride with him now and no longer even bothering to double him up.  That opens up nothing in the middle of the field, so when Joe's only option is Owen Daniels on a short post, there are three Texans around him.

 

So we need that big time receiver on the team, and I think most reasonable people know that by now.   Flacco's never had it, and although he's succeeded without it before, getting him one now would put him over the hump in getting some of these wins we can't get because receivers drop the ball in the endzone or can't even get open so we have to settle for field goals.   Wasn't that the big complaint against the Chargers?  

 

Who would I cut or trade?   Start with Haloti Ngata.   Maybe we give up a couple picks in the 2015 draft to move up and get a top flight guy.   Ozzie is such a smart man, you have to think he could get it done. 

[ravensdfan]

IDK if this was posted I didnt fully read the thread but I think people are forgetting that Dline was a legit need for us coming into the most recent draft. We had 4 contributors on our roster  Tyson, Ngata, Canty, Williams.  Tyson and Williams were still young and green. Ngata and Canty are 30+. Dline was just a big of need as WR. We got a top 15-20 dline talent round 2. There wasn't a top 15-20 WR talent at our pick.

We drafted Dline top 3 last year and it was a need again?

 

We wasted a 3rd rd pick on Gilmore who would have been there in later rounds. He only graded out at 5th rd talent and we picked him up for his blocking skills. People try to say different but that's exactly what we're using him for: blocking.

 

That great Dline does not do you any good when it disappears in games like this week. Like Bengals. Like Chargers. How did it help? No one is disputing the quality of the players we drafted, just that sometimes you can't always go BPA. We needed secondary and some above level talent at WR. It didn't have to be a #1 guy but at least better than sub par. 

This is every single draft, it isn't new. Every year they go through the draft thread and talk about this receiver and that receiver, Ozzieis going offense this time for sure, blah blah blah and we never do.

Then everyone makes their excuses as to why we needed to go defense and then once again you have threads like "is the offense the real problem?" or "the offense costing us games" or "start tyrod!" because Flacco is supposed to make a silk purse out of sow's ear.

It is the same every year. From Ozzie in the draft, then from Ravens' fans who somehow expect the offense to perform like it got the last six top draft picks.

[MrPlankton]

We drafted Dline top 3 last year and it was a need again?

 

We wasted a 3rd rd pick on Gilmore who would have been there in later rounds. He only graded out at 5th rd talent and we picked him up for his blocking skills. People try to say different but that's exactly what we're using him for: blocking.

 

That great Dline does not do you any good when it disappears in games like this week. Like Bengals. Like Chargers. How did it help? No one is disputing the quality of the players we drafted, just that sometimes you can't always go BPA. We needed secondary and some above level talent at WR. It didn't have to be a #1 guy but at least better than sub par. 

This is every single draft, it isn't new. Every year they go through the draft thread and talk about this receiver and that receiver, Ozzieis going offense this time for sure, blah blah blah and we never do.

Then everyone makes their excuses as to why we needed to go defense and then once again you have threads like "is the offense the real problem?" or "the offense costing us games" or "start tyrod!" because Flacco is supposed to make a silk purse out of sow's ear.

It is the same every year. From Ozzie in the draft, then from Ravens' fans who somehow expect the offense to perform like it got the last six top draft picks.

This is primarily a passing league, and as such teams need capable WRs (and CBs to stop them). Why this team didn't go WR until round 7 and didn't go for a single CB is beyond me. 

[Tru11]

StingerNLG, on 23 Dec 2014 - 12:27 AM, said:

The Falcons have a crap defense and while Matt Ryan is not as good as Joe Flacco, he has put up numbers with Jones and White.   You do know the Falcons went to the playoffs 4 out of 7 years with those guys right? 

 

I guarantee you right here if Flacco had Roddy White and Julio Jones this year, this entire forum would look a whole lot different. 

 

What wide receiver on the Bears scares anyone?  Brandon Marshall got put on IR but he's not a playmaker.    Not to mention they have a QB who has talent but is basically as Rob Long puts it....a loser.   Jay Cutler doesn't have the success or pedigree in the NFL Joe Flacco has.   We talk about Joe's one 3 interception game this year, Cutler's had one.   Cutler's also had 6 games this year where he's thrown 2 picks, Flacco only 2 games.  Cutler's got only 4 games this year where he's thrown no interceptions, Flacco has 7.

 

The need for a playmaker WR on this team is evident.  We don't have one, so when the offense is sputtering or the QB is having a bad day there is NO ONE ON THIS TEAM who can help him out and get in a position to make a play on the ball or get behind the defense so Joe can launch the ball downfield.   He threw his first deep pass to KAMAR AIKEN!!!   At least when Boldin was here he has such strong hands that anything Joe threw at him was caught.  Who on this team this year has done that?   No one.

 

When's the last time Torrey even got a step or two on a CB?   They are running stride for stride with him now and no longer even bothering to double him up.  That opens up nothing in the middle of the field, so when Joe's only option is Owen Daniels on a short post, there are three Texans around him.

 

So we need that big time receiver on the team, and I think most reasonable people know that by now.   Flacco's never had it, and although he's succeeded without it before, getting him one now would put him over the hump in getting some of these wins we can't get because receivers drop the ball in the endzone or can't even get open so we have to settle for field goals.   Wasn't that the big complaint against the Chargers?  

 

Who would I cut or trade?   Start with Haloti Ngata.   Maybe we give up a couple picks in the 2015 draft to move up and get a top flight guy.   Ozzie is such a smart man, you have to think he could get it done. 

 

falcons went to the play offs 4 out of 6 years and won 1 game .

 

ravens went to play offs  5 out of 6 years and won 9 games including a SB.

 

yet you wanna be like the falcons and get stud WRs but scrubs everywhere else?

 

well i dont really know what to say to people with this mindset lol.

[StingerNLG]

falcons went to the play offs 4 out of 6 years and won 1 game .

 

ravens went to play offs  5 out of 6 years and won 9 games including a SB.

 

yet you wanna be like the falcons and get stud WRs but scrubs everywhere else?

 

well i dont really know what to say to people with this mindset lol.

 

And I don't understand people who want to keep our team mediocre where it needs to be better.  To each his own I guess.

[Edgar]

This is very true.

it's funny, I don't recall ever seeing Joe visibly shaken and "rattled" before he took a helmet to the knee against Detroit last year.wonder how much that sticks in his mind as I've noticed a different Joe subsequent to that hit.

[Dfence4champs2052]

not much else?

yeah okay lol

guess receivers who get close to 10.000 yards grow on trees lol

I see you're easily impressed

[PerpetuallyBored74]

it's funny, I don't recall ever seeing Joe visibly shaken and "rattled" before he took a helmet to the knee against Detroit last year.wonder how much that sticks in his mind as I've noticed a different Joe subsequent to that hit.

 

This is what concerns me a little.

We don't want Joe to get either "David Carr 'd" or "Jake Delhomme 'd"

[HazDaGeneral]

I could definitely live with this plan. I wanted Evans for the Ravens because of his size. He seemed to fit the big body WR Ozzie was promising in the offseason.

in my Maury voice.....And that was a lie

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

I love Mosley!

 

That being said, this organisation needs to stop trying to extract lower round value, and realise elite receivers are critical in this pass happy league.

 

Our guys are decent, but none are really going to make spectacular plays. Torrey is fast but is a limited route runner with no physicality, Steve is physical but too small to win half the jump balls. 

 

We need a big, physical playmaker, or someone who can shred opponents from the slot. OBJ is insane - he has the ideal combination of athleticism, route running, hands and speed. We need a player like that. 

[Pats]

This is sort of on topic sort of off topic but let me just say that the san francsico 49ers the last seasons have had so many draft picks I was very scared of how good they could get with all of that. Yet with all their stockpiled picks they have brought through barely anyone noteworthy at all, so at least the ravens got 2 good picks out of 2 instead of what SF did.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

This is sort of on topic sort of off topic but let me just say that the san francsico 49ers the last seasons have had so many draft picks I was very scared of how good they could get with all of that. Yet with all their stockpiled picks they have brought through barely anyone noteworthy at all, so at least the ravens got 2 good picks out of 2 instead of what SF did.

 

True, but we still need an elite receiver soon. Our receivers were passable 3 years ago, but no longer. The league and rules demand high flying passing attacks. The only time we look to be flying high is against teams picking in the top 5 in the draft.